Sorry but more likely than a change in liquor laws is a legislation to ban stem-cell research. I heard this from one of the OKC Chamber's lobbyist. I ran a successful legislative campaign this cycle so I am very aware of the way the new kids i.e. Shortey and Breechen will act. As far as the stem cell ban, if it comes up the Democratic caucus will abstain just to prove how the chamber will go out of their way during election times to defeat democrats, so no reason to prop up the chamber. So hey right thinkin merican's > billions of dollars in health care research. A bold new Oklahoma indeed under Governor Fallin!

This dumb ho said today she cares about creating jobs, but she'll sign every nutcase right-wing POS legislation that crosses her desk. I can't believe she's such a B-TCH she couldn't even be bothered to comment on or offer condolences to the congresswoman who was shot in Arizona, who served as her colleague in the House. God help Oklahoma, it's going to get bad. They'll ban stem cell research as a start and then she will sign every nutty bill the wingers send her. This is the kind of thing that could actually negatively impact OKC's development.

Well, hopefully, there are enough supposedly enlightened Republicans, such as State Sen. Jim Hallagan, former president of OSU, who will help take the lead to keep from happening what you describe.

Wish it were so, but it's not. Oklahoma is getting ready to reap what it has sewn: the first all-Republican government in state history. The Dems here aren't much better.

This dumb ho said today she cares about creating jobs, but she'll sign every nutcase right-wing POS legislation that crosses her desk. I can't believe she's such a B-TCH she wouldn't even comment on the congresswoman who was shot in Arizona. God help Oklahoma, it's going to get bad. They'll ban stem cell research as a start and then she will sign every nutty bill the wingers send her. This is the kind of thing that could actually negatively impact OKC's development.

Guru? Somebody p*ss in your Wheaties? You sound pretty crazy in your comment. Your name-calling is un-called-for and makes you an embarrassment to the usual civility of this category. Governor Fallin deserves some respect. You are officially on my "ignore" list.

Guru? Somebody p*ss in your Wheaties? You sound pretty crazy in your comment. Your name-calling is un-called-for and makes you an embarrassment to the usual civility of this category. Governor Fallin deserves some respect. You are officially on my "ignore" list.

Sorry, I don't have high hopes for Governor Fallin. If you're cool with banning stem cells and the other parade of crazy right-wing legislation we're about to get -- and that she will sign -- good for you. I know a lot of people who work in her inner circle and let me tell you, some of them are concerned with her views as well.

I'm just furious that she wouldn't even take the time to issue a press statement after one of her colleagues was gunned down in an assassination attempt. Perhaps you were at her pray-in this morning but I'm not a fan of Fallin's -- at all. She has no class.

Sorry, I don't have high hopes for Governor Fallin. If you're cool with banning stem cells and the other parade of crazy right-wing legislation we're about to get -- and that she will sign -- good for you. I know a lot of people who work in her inner circle and let me tell you, some of them are concerned with her views as well.

I'm just furious that she wouldn't even take the time to issue a press statement after one of her colleagues was gunned down in an assassination attempt. Perhaps you were at her pray-in this morning but I'm not a fan of Fallin's -- at all. She has no class.

guru, I'm no fan of Fallin but I did see a televsion interview she gave about the assassination attempt and she was very clear about how upset and disturbed she was about it.

Okay you guys need to cool it on partisan politics. The issue here is about beer and wine sales, not stem cell research, or Republicans or Democrats. If you're so worked up about it, take your issues over to the political thread. This kind of crap is exactly why America no longer has the intellectual maturity to handle partisan politics.

Guru? Somebody p*ss in your Wheaties? You sound pretty crazy in your comment. Your name-calling is un-called-for and makes you an embarrassment to the usual civility of this category. Governor Fallin deserves some respect. You are officially on my "ignore" list.

Not caught up with her history, what has she done to earn/deserve respect? Just being Governor doesn't qualify, IMO.

It is nice to see others that think OK's environment is potentially harmful to business (and citizen) relocation to the state, it's what I've been saying for a while, but had little support until now, thanks. :sofa: :Smiley259

This dumb ho said today she cares about creating jobs, but she'll sign every nutcase right-wing POS legislation that crosses her desk. I can't believe she's such a B-TCH she couldn't even be bothered to comment on or offer condolences to the congresswoman who was shot in Arizona, who served as her colleague in the House. God help Oklahoma, it's going to get bad. They'll ban stem cell research as a start and then she will sign every nutty bill the wingers send her. This is the kind of thing that could actually negatively impact OKC's development.

Geez...your tone shows you're probably just as bad as those you criticize. Calm down.

This dumb ho said today she cares about creating jobs, but she'll sign every nutcase right-wing POS legislation that crosses her desk. I can't believe she's such a B-TCH she couldn't even be bothered to comment on or offer condolences to the congresswoman who was shot in Arizona, who served as her colleague in the House. God help Oklahoma, it's going to get bad. They'll ban stem cell research as a start and then she will sign every nutty bill the wingers send her. This is the kind of thing that could actually negatively impact OKC's development.

Egad, man!

I'm just furious that she wouldn't even take the time to issue a press statement after one of her colleagues was gunned down in an assassination attempt. Perhaps you were at her pray-in this morning but I'm not a fan of Fallin's -- at all. She has no class.

Furious?! Pay attention and stop depending on Daily Kos for your news. She issued several statements and comments on the matter. Simply check her Twitter feed and Facebook page to see them.

Slightly in defense of soonerguru, I did check Governor Fallins official state site and didn't find any mention (press release etc). But as others have pointed out, she has addressed the situation in interviews and other means.

Okay you guys need to cool it on partisan politics. The issue here is about beer and wine sales, not stem cell research, or Republicans or Democrats. If you're so worked up about it, take your issues over to the political thread. This kind of crap is exactly why America no longer has the intellectual maturity to handle partisan politics.

Gotta admit, you make a fine point. And so, to lead us back to the original discussion, perhaps Tom T. Hall's apssion for the brew can assist:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g_oo6I54iTg

The point is that our state's liquor laws are antiquated and should be changed. A large majority of states allow beer and wine sales in grocery stores.

The sale of wine and strong beer at grocery stores will lead to the entry of better grocery stores in our state, which combined with other goods and services, draws more people and jobs to our states. We should support, not discourage, the elimination of antiquated laws that have a negative impact on our state's economic development.

Then people might as well write to their legislators telling them they support changing the law to allow wine sales in liquor in grocery stores and other changes needed as you see fit. They might need stronger impression that there's citizen demand for such legislation. It would also be good to make an appointment for face to face meetings with them in their offices. Oklahoma City area people probably need to appreciate better that the State Capitol just happens to be a short drive away.

The sale of wine and strong beer at grocery stores will lead to the entry of better grocery stores in our state

I think this is a very good point.

Just read an article (link below) about the grocery market in OKC and for a city it's size, it is more dominated by one company (Wal-Mart) than any other. The combination of their super centers, neighborhood groceries and Sam's Clubs gives them about 60% (!!) of the market. And as a result, drives locals either out of business due to their buying power and low prices, or it forces them to match them, like Crest.

So, the end result is that grocery prices are quite low but none of the mid- to upper-end grocers will even try to come into Oklahoma City. It's no coincidence that the city has almost zero nicer stores. (I bet WF still wouldn't be building here except for incentives from Chesapeake.)

But there is good money to be made through beer and wine sales and that may be a way in for some of these other companies. Variety and quality is desperately needed.

http://supermarketnews.com/retail_financial/whole-foods-pending-arrival-1115/index.html

Then people might as well write to their legislators telling them they support changing the law to allow wine sales in liquor in grocery stores and other changes needed as you see fit. They might need stronger impression that there's citizen demand for such legislation. It would also be good to make an appointment for face to face meetings with them in their offices. Oklahoma City area people probably need to appreciate better that the State Capitol just happens to be a short drive away.

This is exactly right. Writing and going into their offices are very effective means of communicating what you want changed...IF you do it right.

I can tell you, thus far, I've spoken to four legislators face-to-face recently about this issue (3 Republicans and 1 Democrat). Of those four, three were entirely supportive of changing the laws and one was hesitant, though not opposed. The one that was hesitant was a Republican who worried about drunk driving increases and alcohol abuse. He could definitely be persuaded--something I will continue to try to do.

The most effective way I have found, regardless of party, is talk to the legislator about removing government restriction on consumer choice and the inconsistencies in the law. That applies to legislators of both parties. (Caution: that was most effective talking to legislators from my area--use your best judgment when deciding what points to use with your own legislator.)

Follow up any face-to-face meeting with a letter or email. Thank them for speaking with you. I used to work at the capitol and can tell you exactly what you shouldn't do when writing a legislator: 1) Don't send mass form e-mails. They are very easy to identify, and they won't be read. They are entirely ineffective. We received these all the time from state employees or special interest groups--they were generally deleted upon receipt.

2) Be polite, especially when you disagree with the legislator. The legislator I worked for once had controversial legislation that prompted a flood of emails. The ones that were vitriolic and just plain rude had no positive effect whatsoever on him and only made him more hardened in his position. In other words, they may have made the writer feel good, but they had the opposite of the intended effect vis-a-vis the actual policy change. Those emails that were polite, sincere, well-written, and acknowledged the good intention of the legistor, but which also disagreed with his goal were the most effective. He (and others) actually took time to read them and respond individually. In the end, his legislation was altered because of those who showed genuine, polite disagreement made in good faith.

3) Take their concerns seriously. I know a lot of people are cynical about politicians, but many legislators are genuinely concerned about certain aspects of a policy change. The best way to respond is not to ridicule them, but to address their concerns politely. For example, the legislator who was hesitant to support a law change genuinely was concerned about drunk driving increases and alcohol abuse--he didn't just say it because it's a popular anti-drinking talking point. So the best way is to show him the statistics that show his concern may not come to fruition based on what other states have seen and then thank him for reviewing them.

All of this may seem like common sense to us, but I can't tell you how many emails and letters we got that were hateful and mean-- and therefore discarded and ineffective.

So, please contact your legislator and take the time to meet with him or her about getting this law changed. Despite any cynical feelings you may have, it is effective. And it will make you more credible with him in future meetings--he'll understand you care and you vote. You may pleasantly surprised.

Huh? I remember the Chamber being against the ban on embryonic stem cell research that was almost passed a while back. Either way, never a good idea to have laws on the books that can lock up doctors doing research for the benefit of living humans. Not the message you want to send to the medical research industry.

The chamber is against the ban, however Sen. Russell has a new bill this session doing the same thing. The major difference is that in 2009 it failed to get enough votes to override Henry's veto. Now it is unlikely that Fallin would veto it, and even in the unlikely event she did, the change in the legislature would cause an override vote to pass, think Crutchfield to Simpson, Leftwich to Shortey, Corn to Allen etc.

For all of those who think this is unrelated to the chamber's ability to reform alcohol laws, you really don't understand legislative processes. If the chamber has to put a full court press to defend some of the city's highest paying jobs that are in biotech (which is really important for economic diversity) then they can't spend the time pushing for reform of alcohol laws. Also the new cast of characters is even more opposed. Its not really a partisan issue as much as just typical legislative politics.

Two viewpoints on this issue:

Point: Revise outmoded liquor laws (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-10562-point-revise-outmoded-lir-laws.html)

Counterpoint: Paying the price (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-10541-counterpoint-paying-the-price.html)

My beer is ruined when I buy it at room temperature.

My beer is ruined when I buy it at room temperature.

Hmmm.... Do you realize that virtually all imported beer coming in to the U.S. comes in in unrefrigerated shipping containers? You might also consider that most of the best beers in the U.S... Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, Boulevard, Shiner, Bridgeport (just to name a few) are shipped across the country unrefrigerated...

Hmmm.... Do you realize that virtually all imported beer coming in to the U.S. comes in in unrefrigerated shipping containers? You might also consider that most of the best beers in the U.S... Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, Boulevard, Shiner, Bridgeport (just to name a few) are shipped across the country unrefrigerated...



I understand that, but there are also brands that don't sell in oklahoma specifically because of the lack of refrigeration. New Belguim comes to mind.

A good liquor, beer and wine inventory system can supply the data that will help you make the best purchases, at the best prices, at the best times from the best suppliers. This will let you to have better information of the inventory values of the various locations in your business along with the storage area. Wine storage software has proven to be beneficial for lots of hotels and restaurants I suggest other hotels also to use this kind of software to save money and time.

Hmmm.... Do you realize that virtually all imported beer coming in to the U.S. comes in in unrefrigerated shipping containers? You might also consider that most of the best beers in the U.S... Sam Adams, Sierra Nevada, Boulevard, Shiner, Bridgeport (just to name a few) are shipped across the country unrefrigerated...

Your list hardly qualifies as "most of the best beers in the U,S." There are dozens, if not hundreds of breweries with better offerings than that list. And many of them do require refrigeration from brewery to retail.

Your list hardly qualifies as "most of the best beers in the U,S." There are dozens, if not hundreds of breweries with better offerings than that list. And many of them do require refrigeration from brewery to retail.

Hmmm...I guess you missed the next line that said ""just to name a few"...but I stand by my statement that most of the best beers in the U.S., and the world for that matter, are shipped unrefrigerated...

...but don't get me wrong, I'm all for for putting cold boxes in liquor stores and being able to buy cold, strong beer...and unlike the complexity of changing laws to get strong beer in grocery stores, getting cold boxes in liquor stores would only require one minor statute change....

So it appears that this is NOT dead, but it seems a compormise has been made.
Wine can be sold in Grocery stores, but not Liquor or higher alcohol content beer.
Needs to get the signatures to be on the Nov. Ballot though..

Can this pass? Is this a fair compromise?

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-group-seeks-sale-of-wine-in-grocery-stores/article/3663212


Oklahoma group seeks sale of wine in grocery stores
An initiative petition filed Tuesday seeks Oklahoma voter approval to allow residents in counties with more than 50,000 residents to have the option of holding an election that would allow the sale of wine in grocery stores.

By Michael McNutt | Published: April 3, 2012 10
A group launched an initiative petition effort Tuesday that would allow voters in counties with more than 50,000 residents to vote on whether grocery stores in those counties could sell wine.

Voters statewide first would have to give their approval to change the constitution to give the state's 15 largest counties the option for their grocery stores to sell wine.
Lee Slater, an attorney representing the group Oklahomans for Modern Laws, filed the initiative petition effort with the secretary of state's office. The group has 90 days to gather about 155,000 signatures from registered voters.
If successful, the question would be on the Nov. 6 ballot.

State law allows wine to be sold only in liquor stores. Wine is now allowed to be sold in grocery or convenience stores.
If voters would approve the state question, counties with more than 50,000 residents would have the option to let voters decide whether to allow grocery stores in those counties to sell wine. Those counties are Oklahoma, Tulsa, Canadian, Cleveland, Comanche, Creek, Garfield, Grady, Le Flore, Muskogee, Payne, Pottawatomie, Rogers, Wagoner and Washington counties.

If voters approve, wine would be sold unrefrigerated for off-premises consumption only, according to the petition. Sales of wine to persons under 21 years old would be prohibited, although persons under 21 could be allowed in the grocery store to buy other items. Persons under 21 aren't allowed in liquor stores that sell wine.

Corporations would be eligible for a grocery store wine license, but would be limited to having six locations statewide.

The incredibly progressive Terri White, commissioner of the Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services, has spoken publically against this measure.

That is tough one. Do you take the baby step or do you just not negotiate with economic terrorist?

That is tough one. Do you take the baby step or do you just not negotiate with economic terrorist?

Baby steps. Where I'm from in GA just passed some newer laws to allow Sunday alcohol sales. They let wine into the Grocery stores a while back.

A whole lot of signatures, and not a whole lot of time to garner them. The next couple of Sunday mornings should prove interesting for some communities.

There is certainly no compromise here. This just plays right into the hands of the Bog Box retailers. It hurts any local, small grocers such as Forward Foods (under the square footage minimum). Moreover, it will crush the local liquor store owner, as it does not allow the local owner to chain but allows grocers to chain. Completely unfair as written. Liquor store owners still cannot sell on Sunday, sell refrigerated beer and wine, sell (or even give away for that matter) corkscrews, etc. Wal-Mart gets to sell wine in 6 stores but Byron can still just have 1? The drafters behind this are NOT for the people, they are paid for by Big Box retailers looking to expand sales.

. . . the "super committee" had a chance to addess the issue and blew it. At least this seems like a start. . .

I agree with Sid's comments. Having the ability to pair wine with food is a great plus (for both food sales and wine sales). All of our upscale grocers would benefit tremendously, and if there is ever to be a grocery store downtown, think how convenient it would be for the residents. As for liquor sales, in all honesty, liquor purchases (at least for me) are usually planned. If you see a great buy on a certain food, and the grocery store has a display of wine with that food, you can grab it as an impulse item.

Keeping my fingers crossed...

I agree with Sid's comments. Having the ability to pair wine with food is a great plus (for both food sales and wine sales). All of our upscale grocers would benefit tremendously, and if there is ever to be a grocery store downtown, think how convenient it would be for the residents. As for liquor sales, in all honesty, liquor purchases (at least for me) are usually planned. If you see a great buy on a certain food, and the grocery store has a display of wine with that food, you can grab it as an impulse item.

Keeping my fingers crossed...

My favorite liquor store in Kansas City had a pretty good cheese and cured meats cooler. Not Forward Foods/Whole Paychecks level, but a nice selection of cheeses and meats with some fancy crackers near by. They had little cards next to each with pairing suggestions for wine and beer. That setup resulted in the impulse buy of more than a few extra bottles of wine and cheese to go with it.

It will be interesting to see what QuikTrip does, they are quite powerful in state politics and seem to be a little miffed by the 6 store restriction. However if this successfully gets on the ballot it could really start the ball rolling towards wide scale sales in grocery stores. If you think about the six store limit it would allow Homeland to have 6 stores in OKC metro, Reasors 6 in Tulsa metro, plus Whole Foods could have wine in all 3 Oklahoma stores.

The net result is that some liquor stores with bad service and selection will shrivel up and die, as a result when a petition for strong beer sales in grocery/c-stores comes around they will have less money to resist with.

While this might not be a great solution its a start. Also lets be honest the 6 store restriction would allow 10-15 stores in each metro, so that is a much bigger impact. The major issue is grocery stores provide a broader social benefit as in enhance a community, liquor stores don't, why not allow a high margin item help provide a broader social benefit.

Does anyone know/explain the reasoning behind the petition only allowing it in the 15 largest counties? Doesn't that go against the state constitution that forbids 'special laws"? Since it is a statewide vote aren't they going to run against folks in the other 62 counties voting against it since it won't apply to them (why should I vote for it when I won't benefit from it)???

100% Disagree. I can't stand the fact that in Oklahoma I have to go to a specialty shop to buy a drink for dinner. Just last night I went to Metropolitan Market. Bought chips and salsa for tomorrow nights game and a bottle of wine for my wife. At 10:30pm I would have been out of luck in OKC. You want me to wait until 9am because that is better for jobs? This isn't about big box making more money -- though they will. This is about removing laws that only prop up an unnecessary industry and remove restrictions that were purely religious in origin.

This is what is wrong with social engineering laws. They create industries where they are not needed and then once you try to clean up the mess, everyone is upset because jobs will be lost. Many of them should never have been created in the first place.

That said, there are good reasons for liquor stores to exist. Far better selection for example. Allowing more people to sell an item doesn't hurt small shops. Lack of density, branding, customer service, horribly designed neighborhoods, etc hurt small businesses.

Well said. I have spent time in other states that allow you buy wine in grocery stores and it works very well. I would much rather buy my wine in the grocery stores and not have to make a special trip somewhere else to buy a bottle of wine. I am hoping for it for it to happen here someday.

How about the State government just gets out of the way and lets the businesses and their customers decide.

How about the State government just gets out of the way and lets the businesses and their customers decide.
This

Does anyone know/explain the reasoning behind the petition only allowing it in the 15 largest counties? Doesn't that go against the state constitution that forbids 'special laws"? Since it is a statewide vote aren't they going to run against folks in the other 62 counties voting against it since it won't apply to them (why should I vote for it when I won't benefit from it)???


It minimizes the opposition. Try running the same concept as applicable in all 77 counties and it would likely go down in flames.

You'd have the drinking is sinful, always, crowd united with the I take a sip with dinner but hey, the kids might get more access crowd united with the Hey, I like Joe at the package store and this would put him outta business crowd united with the money will go to Wal-Mart and ol' Joe gives money to the local save a fountain drive, etc., etc.

Take this issue off most main streets and a whole lot less of those folks will get up in arms over what the city folk wanna do. There's a reason you still can't get a decent bourbon, neat, in a whole lot of places. They don't want it, and them what do, don't wanna publicly say they do.

Well I find the revisions to this potential state question a little disappointing. I realize why they did it... it's clear they put all these little things in about what county size this effects and number of stores and size of stores to placate the opposition. I was really hoping they would go further. But yes, as they probably reasoned, I would still vote for this.

I'm all for it. How do I find out where to sign? On their web site?

I'm sure everyone realizes that even if this passes, the Liquor Distribution Cartel will figure out a way to get it overturned in court so its implementation can be delayed for another decade or so . . . Probably--this time--based upon something like "lower population counties being discriminated against/unequal protection under the laws" . . .

How about the State government just gets out of the way and lets the businesses and their customers decide.

Because the Baptists and the liquor store owners who don't want to be bothered with opening on Sunday could team up and stop laws from passing to let liquor stores open on Sunday.

Because the Baptists and the liquor store owners who don't want to be bothered with opening on Sunday could team up and stop laws from passing to let liquor stores open on Sunday.

The Baptists(Or pick the denomination you want to pick on) sure, maybe. The liquor store owners? I doubt it. I think there are enough people who want to purchase on sundays, or who would purchase on sundays, to make it sensible from a profit perspective.

... and the liquor store owners who don't want to be bothered with opening on Sunday....

ummm just because the law allows them to be opened on sunday, doesn't mean that they have to be opened on sunday... my issue with the current law is that the state is regulating the days of operation of a private business (reason why i tell my parents that i am a true conservative and am able to support this, because i don't believe in the government regulating the hours of operations of a private business).... if they passed a law allowing them to be opened on sunday, i would surely hope that it would be a requirement

and so if a liquor store owner didn't want to be open on sunday, then they wouldn't have to be.

The Baptists(Or pick the denomination you want to pick on) sure, maybe. The liquor store owners? I doubt it. I think there are enough people who want to purchase on sundays, or who would purchase on sundays, to make it sensible from a profit perspective.

Perhaps, but presently those same folk purchase on one of the other six days of the week. Not sure an extra day worth of overhead is really going to attract a bevy of new customers who were tea-totaling protestors who refued to be buyers unless it could happen on Sunday. Sort of like those Nobody buy gas this Monday campaigns where folks go fill up on Sat. or Sunday or live life with reckless abandon and wait for Tuesday.

Perhaps, but presently those same folk purchase on one of the other six days of the week. Not sure an extra day worth of overhead is really going to attract a bevy of new customers who were tea-totaling protestors who refued to be buyers unless it could happen on Sunday. Sort of like those Nobody buy gas this Monday campaigns where folks go fill up on Sat. or Sunday or live life with reckless abandon and wait for Tuesday.

Convenience drives sales, why else would so many retails operate with extended hours?

Perhaps, but presently those same folk purchase on one of the other six days of the week. Not sure an extra day worth of overhead is really going to attract a bevy of new customers who were tea-totaling protestors who refued to be buyers unless it could happen on Sunday. Sort of like those Nobody buy gas this Monday campaigns where folks go fill up on Sat. or Sunday or live life with reckless abandon and wait for Tuesday.

They would not be required to be open on sundays. This allows the store owner to decide whether or not the business is open on that day rather than the state of oklahoma telling them what days they can be open. Will all liquor stores be open on sundays? no probably not... but if one wanted to, they could!

Liquor stores would surely already be free to open on Sunday, if enough owners wanted them to be open. The same goes with car dealers. I think not being free to open on Sunday, if desired, is pretty silly and anti freedom, but plenty of Oklahomans sure seem to respect it highly as a time honored cultural tradition.

I’m all for a level playing field, and this is a baby step towards that. I’d rather see a county option that would lift restrictions on grocer and existing liquor stores so that the former could sell beer, wine & booze, and the latter could sell things in addition to beer, wine & booze. There will be a shake-out to be certain, and weaker liquor stores will go by the wayside, but consumers will benefit immediately by having sources to purchase alcohol, and benefit in the long run by having more grocers interested in entering this market.

The gasoline tank remediation issue comes to mind. That was more than a decade ago when gas stations had to remove their old gas tanks, test the soil, remediate as necessary, and then replace the tanks. The smaller operators claimed that this would put them out of business due to the high cost, and in some cases that was true – the most marginal and poorly-performing operators are now gone. But their tanks have been replaced (or disposed of), the soil has been cleaned, and the real estate has changed hands and is now serving a greater economic good.

So too here, I hope.

Liquor stores would surely already be free to open on Sunday, if enough owners wanted them to be open. The same goes with car dealers. I think not being free to open on Sunday, if desired, is pretty silly and anti freedom, but plenty of Oklahomans sure seem to respect it highly as a time honored cultural tradition.

actually no... the current law within the Oklahoma Constitution requires them to be closed on sunday... and to change this requires a vote of the people to do so. so even if all the Liquor store owners wanted to be open on sunday's, they couldn't unless they could get it even put on a state wide ballot for it to be voted on.

actually no... the current law within the Oklahoma Constitution requires them to be closed on sunday... and to change this requires a vote of the people to do so. so even if all the Liquor store owners wanted to be open on sunday's, they couldn't unless they could get it even put on a state wide ballot for it to be voted on.

So if the liquor store owners wanted to open badly enough on Sunday, then they should have been organized enough by now to get people to vote on letting them open on Sunday.

So if the liquor store owners wanted to open badly enough on Sunday, then they should have been organized enough by now to get people to vote on letting them open on Sunday.

do you realize how difficult it is to get something on the ballot??? it took 6 tries to get the issue on the ballot to be open on election day solely so that campaign parties could buy alcohol.... and that is the congressmen themselves wanting to get it on the ballot for their own campaign parties.... and then it still passed by just a narrow margin

So if the liquor store owners wanted to open badly enough on Sunday, then they should have been organized enough by now to get people to vote on letting them open on Sunday.

by your logic... if the grocery stores wanted wine badly enough then they should have been organized enough by now to get people to vote on it rather than having to have the chamber of OKC to have to help them... but they do want it badly, and are a much larger group than the liquor store owners, and still can't get it done... hence why this is even being talked about

by your logic... if the grocery stores wanted wine badly enough then they should have been organized enough by now to get people to vote on it rather than having to have the chamber of OKC to have to help them... but they do want it badly, and are a much larger group than the liquor store owners, and still can't get it done... hence why this is even being talked about

That is not actually correct. I was at a meeting this week and Carl Edwards, Chairman of the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber was the speaker. He was asked about the Chambers position on this and was very clear that the Chamber has not taken any position on this issue at all. Their board is going to vote on it at a future meeting. He has a lot of integrity and I do not doubt anthing that he says. Also 2 of the largest liquor distributors sit on the board of the Chamber.

The liquor stores shouldn't really be worried about losing sales. Why? Because what stock boy at the grocery store is going to know anything about wine pairings? The main liquor is still at the liquor store AND they'll have wine. Unless the grocery store happens to have exactlly what i want, then i'm still going to have to go to a liquor store. I go to Andy's on 29th in MWC. They know exactlly where every bottle is, what it goes with, what you should use to cook/bake, etc. They are extremely knowledgeable (more so than any other liquor store ive been to). I'm not going to stop going there just because Crest can carry wine-in-a-box.

The liquor stores shouldn't really be worried about losing sales. Why? Because what stock boy at the grocery store is going to know anything about wine pairings? The main liquor is still at the liquor store AND they'll have wine. Unless the grocery store happens to have exactlly what i want, then i'm still going to have to go to a liquor store. I go to Andy's on 29th in MWC. They know exactlly where every bottle is, what it goes with, what you should use to cook/bake, etc. They are extremely knowledgeable (more so than any other liquor store ive been to). I'm not going to stop going there just because Crest can carry wine-in-a-box.

I agree. Beer is a good example. I buy it in a convenience store because i do not want to hassle with going into the grocery store for it. The same will apply to me with wine. I will still go to my local liquor store for wine. It is more convenient and I know the local owners.

That is not actually correct. I was at a meeting this week and Carl Edwards, Chairman of the Greater Oklahoma City Chamber was the speaker. He was asked about the Chambers position on this and was very clear that the Chamber has not taken any position on this issue at all. Their board is going to vote on it at a future meeting. He has a lot of integrity and I do not doubt anthing that he says. Also 2 of the largest liquor distributors sit on the board of the Chamber.


by your logic... if the grocery stores wanted wine badly enough then they should have been organized enough by now to get people to vote on it rather than having to have the chamber of OKC to have to help them... but they do want it badly, and are a much larger group than the liquor store owners, and still can't get it done... hence why this is even being talked about

so which part of what i said is not correct? are the grocery stores not asking the chamber to help? i never said that the OKC chamber is going to help them... i said that by his logic, the grocers should have been able to do it without the help of the OKC Chamber... well they tried that and the legislative committee said no... so now they are asking the chamber for a vote, hence having the have the chamber of OKC help them.

the only other part that could be not accurate would either be the statement that the grocery stores want it badly.... or that they are a much larger lobbying group than the liquor store owners of Oklahoma....

while i found your information to be useful and very helpful, i'm still not sure what part of my statement you thought was not correct

by your logic... If the grocery stores wanted wine badly enough then they should have been organized enough by now to get people to vote on it rather than having to have the chamber of okc to have to help them... But they do want it badly, and are a much larger group than the liquor store owners, and still can't get it done... Hence why this is even being talked about

exactly!

Liquor stores would surely already be free to open on Sunday, if enough owners wanted them to be open. The same goes with car dealers. I think not being free to open on Sunday, if desired, is pretty silly and anti freedom, but plenty of Oklahomans sure seem to respect it highly as a time honored cultural tradition.

Churchill once said that the traditions of the Royal Navy were "sodomy, rum and the lash."