Oklahoma can't operate with a debt, constitutionally. The federal debt has no relevance because it's meaningless. The fed doesn't operate in any reality when it comes to income vs expenditures, and revenues are really there just to remove money from the economy and (attempt) to manage inflation. Oklahoma has to actually have revenues to pay for everything the state does. Period. I'd much rather a state that doesn't operate in the red than one that incurs debt that must be repaid. If we need to increase revenue that's another discussion, but holding up going into extreme debt as some sort of goal to be championed? Absurd.

thank you well said ..

I should clarify. We can't operate with a deficit. We do incur debt (such as bonds and such). But the budget is required to be balanced. But we shouldn't push to expand what debt we do have.

It should also be noted, on the whole Texas Vs Oklahoma discussion, that both states allocate similar percentages of their total budgets to transportation. But Texas operates with a $250 billion state budget, and Oklahoma operates with less than $10 billion. Texas' economy is so much larger than ours that a comparison becomes ridiculous imo. We're never going to be Texas or California. They operate in a scope larger than most countries, and they both could move in circles with pretty much any country in the world, economy wise.

thank you well said ..
Taking less than 14 years to complete one highway interchange isn’t absurd

Taking less than 14 years to complete one highway interchange isn’t absurd

The work on this interchange has been amazingly quick, and minimally disruptive compared to about any major road project I've ever seen in Oklahoma.

Wait. It has been 14 years for this one interchange?!

Wait. It has been 14 years for this one interchange?!

I don't think so, unless someone is including planning/discussion time. From what I recall, the prep work such as adding the ramp from SB 235 to I44 WB was started in 2011, and the whole railway bridge thing and work on the stretch near 50th was in 2017, and the intersection work started no long after that? I may be a little off on the years but I don't think that much.

how is that relevant .. ???
Oh I’m sorry I thought we were just making oversimplified statements with no context so we can tell just half of the truth. My bad.

The work on this interchange has been amazingly quick, and minimally disruptive compared to about any major road project I've ever seen in Oklahoma.
Is this a joke? They started construction on this interchange back in 2012(ish). Minimally disruptive? Even per ODOTs own words there are/were major disruptions due to this project.

Is this a joke? They started construction on this interchange back in 2012(ish). Minimally disruptive? Even per ODOTs own words there are/were major disruptions due to this project.
I guess it depends on what we are calling "construction on the interchange," which I don't think is universally agreed upon. Here is ODOT's timeline of the early phases:

2011 — Southbound US-77 ramp to westbound I-44 at $19.2 million.
2013 — I-44 eastbound to I-235 southbound ramp at the I-235/I-44 interchange at $10 million.
2017— I-235 between N. 36thSt. and I-44, which includes the installation of the 4-million pound BNSFrailroad bridge. $88 million.

The current phase –- the $105 million project to widen I-235 up to eight lanes and reconstruct the I-235/I-44 interchange -- began in spring 2019 and is expected to complete in fall 2021.

I guess I’d define construction of a project not complete until the project is fully built. That doesn’t mean phases or specific work packages being used to define the length of time only when there exists active construction on them. To me that is a way to put lipstick on a pig and make it sound better than it is. ODOT started this project 10 years ago and even when this phase is done there is another phase until the I-235/I-44 interchange is considered complete. That’s my opinion.

Per ODOTs webpage this project isn’t scheduled to be finished until 2023. I suppose that is open to interpretation based on whether or not construction is active but I look at the entire project. Texas would have had this done years ago with the entire interchange being flyovers, frontage roads, and the Santa Fe bridge built but we have people like BS who claim it’s not possible engineering wise to build it that way and not due to a budget. I’m not knocking on ODOT as the final product for what is built I’m sure will be great. They need more funding.

Is this a joke? They started construction on this interchange back in 2012(ish). Minimally disruptive? Even per ODOTs own words there are/were major disruptions due to this project.

My commute went through this intersection for basically the entire duration of the work, and overall it did not significantly impact me.

My commute went through this intersection for basically the entire duration of the work, and overall it did not significantly impact me.

^^Same

My commute went through this intersection for basically the entire duration of the work, and overall it did not significantly impact me.
My uncle had a daily commute through it and it significantly impacted him. I’ve been caught in traffic jams at this interchange multiple times personally.

ODOT had a whole campaign called Off Broadway to encourage people to take alternative routes and avoid significant delays. I’m sure to those that followed the detour would say their route was impacted significantly. But really this isn’t the point and it’s unavoidable. All construction projects have impacts to traffic and that isn’t ODOTs fault.

there's no reason why at least the Westbound-to-Southbound Downtown flyover and the Santa Fe bridge weren't built. Could have used some of the land saved by removing the cloverleaf to better design the Southbound-to-Westbound area and also made the junction a safe 5-stack.

THIS to me is the yokel mentality of this state; always 2nd best. They didn't even realize this isn't the first 4-stack in the city/state, I-240 Kilpatrick and Hefner Parkway is.

Wait. It has been 14 years for this one interchange?!

If you look at all the widening of the original i235/Broadway segments as one string of projects to improve the overall route, we are probably getting around 20-25 years of phased construction.

Heck, why not then go back to the original widening from a two lane highway. I think that started in mid 70s. So this has been going on for 50 years. Dang ODOT can’t get anything done quickly.

They built the two lane highway at some point, might as well go back to that to get the real scope of the project.

More seriously, the thing that has probably affected my daily route the most has been the eastbound to northbound flyover single lane chokepoint. That's can't be re-striped soon enough.

More seriously, the thing that has probably affected my daily route the most has been the eastbound to northbound flyover single lane chokepoint. That's can't be re-striped soon enough.

For real. I went through that the other day again, still cussing all the way.

If you look at all the widening of the original i235/Broadway segments as one string of projects to improve the overall route, we are probably getting around 20-25 years of phased construction.

I look at it like this: ODOT's planning documents for this interchange list the first phase of construction as the ramp from southbound Broadway Extension to westbound I-44. This first phase was constructed in 2011. So we're sitting at 10 years since the start of construction and the final phase - the Lincoln Blvd/I-44 interchange modifications - are currently expected to begin construction in "early 2023" with completion about a year later.

If that schedule holds, that's ***13 years*** to complete an interchange rebuild project. Pretty damn ridiculous if you ask me.

For real. I went through that the other day again, still cussing all the way.

What time did y'all go through this?

I've used it probably 20-40 times and only once or twice had any issues with traffic.

I am guessing once the S bridge is full operational, that the restripe will happen all the way past the Wilshire exit to finally continue that terminated lane. This thing finishing will be a massive game changer for the 8-5 commuters.

I am guessing once the S bridge is full operational, that the restripe will happen all the way past the Wilshire exit to finally continue that terminated lane. This thing finishing will be a massive game changer for the 8-5 commuters.

Yesynonymous, your guess is spot on! I also agree that it will be a massive game changer!

What time did y'all go through this?

I've used it probably 20-40 times and only once or twice had any issues with traffic.

Morning rush hour, very commonly has a bit of a jam when I go through.

From today:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235081821a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235081821b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235081821c.jpg

The area near 63rd feels so close to finishing up

Looks like < 2 months before project completion.

You can tell from Pete’s pics that the middle section of the SB 235/77 to prepare for the bridge is going vertical. Also, this morning, they were painting the wall on the east side on the 63rd street exit. I am not sure of the timeline, but I imagine the trusses for the SB bridge could start going in a few weeks.

In today's Superfluous Merge Mania I realized that restriping is probably no going to be a thing until they install official signage for the north split above the road. Currently there's an orange sign on ground level taking up potential road width. Still hope it's soon because combined with traffic offloading to Western, eastbound 44 is backing up to almost a standstill past NW Expressway almost daily, I hit it around the 7:30-7:45 timeframe.

In today's Superfluous Merge Mania I realized that restriping is probably no going to be a thing until they install official signage for the north split above the road. Currently there's an orange sign on ground level taking up potential road width. Still hope it's soon because combined with traffic offloading to Western, eastbound 44 is backing up to almost a standstill past NW Expressway almost daily, I hit it around the 7:30-7:45 timeframe.

I was just thinking that this morning. If they'd just move that sign, traffic could go through in 2 lanes whether it's striped or not.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235082921a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235082921b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235082921c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235082921d.jpg

It's getting close.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235082921a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235082921b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235082921c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235082921d.jpg

Bump.

Something I have been wondering about for a while is this bit right here:

17065

Is this maybe the point where the dedicated lane for the cloverleaf ramps splits off, and doesn't need the final concrete paving in the gap?

The split would have happened way earlier than that point (the ramp from 63rd will not get a chance to get on the main lanes till passing the cloverleafs), the portion that is temporary will likely be a jersey barrier and gutter (so eventually will be concrete in that gap) between the main southbound lanes and the distributor lanes that keep all the merging and exiting off ramps away from the main lanes but if they built the gutter now there would be a big dip as everyone was crossing there.

Southbound, there’s going to be some traffic problems with the cloverleaf, on west side, having just a lane on bridge to enter and exit from.

Southbound, there’s going to be some traffic problems with the cloverleaf, on west side, having just a lane on bridge to enter and exit from.

The distribution road is basically the same capacity as the old bridge, two through driving lanes and the lane between the two leaves but also has breakdown lane on the bridge too, but the bulk of southbound traffic will be shifted off it.

Southbound, there’s going to be some traffic problems with the cloverleaf, on west side, having just a lane on bridge to enter and exit from.

it will be 100's of times better then the old set up ..

missed opportunity for a southbound flyover though. ...

Taken this morning (Thursday):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235090921a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235090921b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235090921c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235090921d.jpg

It looks sooooo close to being done.

They shifted traffic to I44 EB so beam installation will begin shortly over WB lanes.

They shifted traffic to I44 EB so beam installation will begin shortly over WB lanes.

I drove through that this morning. They didn't even bother erecting barriers, so this might be a pretty quick job.

They already had a couple beams in place when I drove over at 9:40 am...

They already had a couple beams in place when I drove over at 9:40 am...

Can confirm. Drove eastbound & westbound today to access Lincoln Blvd. That westbound section is TREACHEROUS at the moment. One lane, but to go WB 44 to SB 235, you have to drive up over what appears to be something you shouldn't drive on. I saw a truck take the "exit" and thought he was crashing. Nope, just a little ~10" hump to enter the clover.

Took these around noon today (Tuesday):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235091421a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235091421b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235091421c.jpg

Love your pics, call them Oklahoma City Construction Junction...

No messing around here, they are getting with it.

This is looking great! Drove through there last night and just can't believe it! In looking at these pictures this morning, the first thing I thought of when I saw the new bridge piers is what a wonderful new space for people to stop during hail storms or tornados to save their vehicles! Gotta be the largest covering in the city!

This is looking great! Drove through there last night and just can't believe it! In looking at these pictures this morning, the first thing I thought of when I saw the new bridge piers is what a wonderful new space for people to stop during hail storms or tornados to save their vehicles! Gotta be the largest covering in the city!

Actually incredibly dangerous creating a wind tunnel effect under the bridge and also creates a traffic jam trapping people on the expressway. Out in the open. Something similar happened on the I 35
Back in 2013

Actually incredibly dangerous creating a wind tunnel effect under the bridge and also creates a traffic jam trapping people on the expressway. Out in the open. Something similar happened on the I 35
Back in 2013

I was hoping it was sarcasm

I really wish we could train police officers to spot that kind of sh!t and ticket people for it.

I was hoping it was sarcasm
Yes, extreme sarcasm. :).

Yes, extreme sarcasm. :).

I picked up on the sarcasm. Everyone knows Oncue awnings are the best places to hide from hail and tornados.

I really wish we could train police officers to spot that kind of sh!t and ticket people for it.

They probably have better things to do during a storm.

They probably have better things to do during a storm.
Yeah you’re right, they’ll be dealing with car accidents due to people just blocking a freeway in low visibility conditions.

Took these today (Wed) around 1:30PM:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235092221a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235092221b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235092221c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235092221d.jpg

Drove through this on Saturday. I was WB -> SB and had I not had an intuition on which lanes to be in I would have completely missed my opportunity to get into the far right lanes a mile or two from this interchange. There’s just an odd fork in the road created by cones (no signage that I could see) and after staying right I then wondered if I had somehow ventured into the actual construction site by accident and not the travel lanes.

Looks great though.

Taken today (Sunday 10/3):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235100321a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235100321b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235100321c.jpg

Any idea when those northbound lanes will fully open?

The whole thing is supposed to be done by the end of the year.