They way they set up the barrier on the new bridge so unevenly favoring southbound lanes, I would almost bet they plan to route the cloverleaf merge area temporarily over there, which would allow them to just build the bridge at once verses more sub-phases.


^

Interesting idea. Could be something like this so they can just do the entire SB bridge at once:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235051721e.jpg

you get a gold star

I'm pretty sure the whole southbound bridge is being demolished, but they just haven't had a chance to have a crane come in there and remove the old steel beams. They have also already started construction on the approach for the new SB bridge only a couple of weeks since that half of the NB side was removed so things are moving quickly.

Doesn't look like anymore interstate closures will be needed. They will just keep shifting I-44 traffic around the work areas of the new bridge. Its what they did when built the new NB bridge and overpasses that went over I-44.

Taken this morning (Sunday):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235061321a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235061321b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235061321c.jpg

They've already removed concrete from another bridge span between your shots from Sunday and this morning.

On my drive north this morning, I noticed they started putting up the precast concrete for the wall for the 63rd street exit. They had been digging it out for several days now, looks like they are starting to put it back together.

Traffic on I-44 has been shifted so that eastbound traffic no longer goes underneath the structure as they dismantle it. For some reason this new alignment feels so much more natural going either way, no sharp curves really.

Taken this (Saturday) morning:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235061921a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235061921c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235061921b.jpg

Remind me again when they are supposed to be done with this project? It seems like the 235/77/44 could be done by the end of the year. Not sure how long the Lincoln to 235 will take.

Remind me again when they are supposed to be done with this project? It seems like the 235/77/44 could be done by the end of the year. Not sure how long the Lincoln to 235 will take.

This fall.

now that the old bridge is gone work should go pretty quickly ..

They filling that entire embankment behind the wall with gravel? Damn that is a lot.

They sure did "delete" that bridge pretty quickly.

I don't understand the construction of the 63rd street exit. Why the massive amount of rock (gravel?) . Drainage?

I don't understand the construction of the 63rd street exit. Why the massive amount of rock (gravel?) . Drainage?

Thought this was standard of all fill ins that do on projects like this

From this morning (Sunday):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235062721a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235062721b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235062721c.jpg

From this afternoon (Friday 7/2):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235070221a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235070221b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235070221c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235070221d.jpg

The 63rd exit photo is confusing for me in that there looks like a large void of space between the pavement and the gravel bed under the pavement. It looks like a gap of 5-6' or so. Not sure I'm seeing it in perspective or it is what it is? Can someone explain this process. Thanks.

^^^^Same...confused

It's an MSE structure. Mechanically Stabilized Earth. It appears that it is hollow, but it is an illusion. Refer to Pete's photo in Post #1789. You can see where they sealed off the northern edge of where they were working on the previous phase. It is covered in a black moisture barrier material. Now that they are ready to proceed further north, they are backfilling the aggregate up against that black "wall". It's not hollow. Just an illusion.





http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235050121b.jpg

It's an MSE structure. Mechanically Stabilized Earth. It appears that it is hollow, but it is an illusion. Refer to Pete's photo in Post #1789. You can see where they sealed off the northern edge of where they were working on the previous phase. It is covered in a black moisture barrier material. Now that they are ready to proceed further north, they are backfilling the aggregate up against that black "wall". It's not hollow. Just an illusion.

Very helpful! Thanks!

They have the first level of retaining wall going all the way to the 63rd st bridge so hopefully they will finish all of the NB lanes up pretty soon and have it fully open up past I44 here soon

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235071121a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235071121b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235071121c.jpg

The amount of concrete in that photo is wild.

At its widest point (just south of the 63rd intersection), it's the equivalent of about 15 lanes.

wow

Eastbound 44 was down to one lane as they ready the first bridge trusses.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235071821a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235071821.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235071821b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235071821c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235071821d.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235072521a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235072521b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235072521c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235072521d.jpg

Nice! 63rd street exit is getting close to completion! Whew, what a massive project this thing has been. Honestly, it seems like they've moved fairly quickly on this. But, I don't commute downtown so for those who do this project may seem like it'll never end.

Once they finish the 63rd ramp and can complete those northbound lanes, it will no longer necessary to switch the northbound lanes so after the I-44 bridge, that traffic will be up to full speed.

Then, it will be down to finishing the southbound bridge and it will pretty much be all wrapped up.

It's hard to imagine how much better traffic will flow through that intersection.

It looks like the phase reconstructing the westbound ramps between Lincoln and the interchange with less conflict is currently set to start FFY 2023, but I would not be shocked if that got moved forward with some sort of of economic aid package or delayed due to covid budgets

Once they finish the 63rd ramp and can complete those northbound lanes, it will no longer necessary to switch the northbound lanes so after the I-44 bridge, that traffic will be up to full speed.

Then, it will be down to finishing the southbound bridge and it will pretty much be all wrapped up.

It's hard to imagine how much better traffic will flow through that intersection.

Is there a timeline on when the bridge will be complete vs the whole project? I watched a similar project like this in Fort Worth that took 2 years to complete

Is there a timeline on when the bridge will be complete vs the whole project? I watched a similar project like this in Fort Worth that took 2 years to complete

They have said "this fall".

I suspect it will be largely complete before the end of the year.

They have plenty of motivation besides contracts; the state has a big liability due to how unsafe things are now -- way worse before they started construction.

Is there a timeline on when the bridge will be complete vs the whole project? I watched a similar project like this in Fort Worth that took 2 years to complete

If it follows a similar pace of the NB bridge over i44 and the two main lane bridges over the river on this project, probably somewhere around 6 months.

So I was a bit curious about some striping and lane shifts, maybe someone can explain. The EB-44 off ramp to I-235S & Broadway extension flyover goes from two lanes, then is forced to merge into one for a few hundred feet maybe, and then branches off into two lanes heading north and one heading south. Couple this with a police suv hanging out in the triangle median this morning created quite the confused backup, but even without flashing lights it can backup for no other reason than that one lane merge. Is there any specific reason they did that, perhaps before the Broadway Extension flyover was open, and hopefully are there any plans to re-stripe that small section to avoid this unneeded bottleneck? The section of road seems wide enough to accomodate two lanes of traffic throughout.

^

I believe it is to slow down traffic because it quickly merges with other lanes at the end.

I suspect when they get everything done and you don't have those hazardous merges, it will be restriped to 2 lanes.

The NB/SB ramp will be stripped for two lanes upon project completion.

16994

16995

It's certainly been a giant pain having the new flyover access forced down to one lane with the southbound people too, so it's a relief to see the diagram of it being restriped.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235080121a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235080121b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235080121c.jpg

once those center supports are up and poured ..... the rest of those 2 bridges will go very fast .. ( beams and then fill)

getting closer and closer to north and south being complete every day ..

I'll start out by admitting that I've paid very little attention to this - because it's out in the northern hinterlands beyond NW 50th and it rarely impacts me - but, I mean...there are going to be other flyovers, right? Everyone is talking like this is being buttoned up but I'm seeing no pathway currently being developed for southbound traffic to transition east, nor for westbound traffic to go south. Am I just missing it? Is that another phase, as yet to kick off? The existing cloverleaf portions are going to be demolished, right? Seems like a long time to go without these transitions.

Edit: never mind. I went back to the very start of the thread and see that the cloverleaf portions are being retained for those transitions I just mentioned. I mean...I don't have a dog in this fight, but that seems antithetical to the whole "we have to make sure traffic is unimpeded and can change directions without slowing down in any way." Oh well.

SB->EB and WB->SB will have cloverleafs still, however they will have a dedicated lane, separated by barrier away from the main travel lanes, and will have expanded radii to accommodate faster turning speeds.

ODOT could have made those flyovers but they aren’t funded well enough. TxDOT would have made this a full stack with frontage roads through it and built the Santa Fe bridge.

Exactly!! So frustrating.

ODOT could have made those flyovers but they aren’t funded well enough. TxDOT would have made this a full stack with frontage roads through it and built the Santa Fe bridge.

it wasn't about funding ..

it wasn't about funding ..

What was it about? I always assumed Oklahoma preferred the “pay as you go” aka the under-built and over budget due to the ridiculous amount of time these projects take approach to infrastructure

What was it about? I always assumed Oklahoma preferred the “pay as you go” aka the under-built and over budget due to the ridiculous amount of time these projects take approach to infrastructure

in this case it was about the space they had .. and that we (as a state ) value private land ownership .. .

the south to east flyover would have gone right through the paragon building ..

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235080121a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235080121b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/235080121c.jpg

Getting close on the 63rd exit. Looks like they almost have the wall finished, and from there I assume it's just laying concrete to finish it out.

in this case it was about the space they had .. and that we (as a state ) value private land ownership .. .

the south to east flyover would have gone right through the paragon building ..right always an excuse for Oklahoma. Always. Oklahoma has some special reason why they couldn’t do it.

No, it’s about funding. That’s it.

What was it about? I always assumed Oklahoma preferred the “pay as you go” aka the under-built and over budget due to the ridiculous amount of time these projects take approach to infrastructure
It’s about funding. If you go look at some of the projects Texas has built and then suggest they wouldn’t be able do it here, well, then you’d be bouldersooner.

It’s about funding. If you go look at some of the projects Texas has built and then suggest they wouldn’t be able do it here, well, then you’d be bouldersooner.

It’s about the funding. Texas is a much much better run state. Txdot hired the créme of the the crop. We hired mouth breathing chuckleheads. Someone is going to get hurt before this is all done. No telling how many accidents have occurred over the years due to this “project”

It’s about the funding. Texas is a much much better run state. Txdot hired the créme of the the crop. We hired mouth breathing chuckleheads. Someone is going to get hurt before this is all done. No telling how many accidents have occurred over the years due to this “project”
I'll be the contrarian (again). Whether or not design decisions were made SOLELY on funding, only ODOT can say. However, ODOT doesn't operate in the ideal, on-paper world, they have to work with what funds they have been allocated. They know that as well as anyone. Their design decisions in this interchange are NOT unreasonable or "cheap," despite what others (who don't have to actually deal with these budgets and decision-making about the state projects as a whole) may believe.

As far as people getting hurt, the fact of the matter is that ODOT has done a reasonable job making this project work... it's like rebuilding a ship while it's still running at sea. Drivers ultimately have the responsibility to make the driving decisions that they feel are safe for them. There are certainly points that are difficult to navigate, so if it's too difficult or scary for me, I find another route. As someone who drives through this interchange at least twice each day, I've been pleasantly surprised how well the contractors have done keeping at least two lanes open both directions. It could have been much worse.

Last point, driving through Texas multiple times a year has shown me that some of their projects aren't the "créme of the crop" as others on here believe. I certainly can point to the recent years-long I-35 construction in Denton as being ever bit as difficult and/or scary as any trip I've made through the 235/44 interchange.

Perhaps since I'm getting old and I've run a few businesses, I tend to have a more realistic/"real world" perspective on these public funding issues, whether its ODOT and highways or it's other metro area projects not specifically related to traffic. Do I think that ODOT should be better funded? Absolutely. Do I believe they ever will be? No. Our legislature has proven time and again they are more interested in legislating controversial highly partisan issues than first dealing with this state's perpetual underfunding due to politics over practical governance.

Instead of always denigrating the professionals at ODOT, start putting the responsibility squarely where it deserves to be — the legislature and the governor, those who are directly responsible for our state's budget. So many here seem to either not grasp or seemingly choose to ignore the monetary and political realities of this state.

DISCLAIMER: I do not personally know or have any relationships with anyone at ODOT.

</rant>

^^^ you really aren’t saying anything we didn’t say. ODOT doesn’t have the money. It’s as simple as that. I can attest to driving through Texas they certainly do have creme of the crop infrastructure compared to most states.

^^^ you really aren’t saying anything we didn’t say. ODOT doesn’t have the money. It’s as simple as that. I can attest to driving through Texas they certainly do have creme of the crop infrastructure compared to most states.

If you don't leave Dallas, Houston, or Austin that is probably true. If you go to the vastness of rural and smaller town Texas, their roads are terrible.

^^^ you really aren’t saying anything we didn’t say. ODOT doesn’t have the money. It’s as simple as that. I can attest to driving through Texas they certainly do have creme of the crop infrastructure compared to most states.
What I am saying that others are not is that ODOT isn't simply a bunch of nincompoops or "mouth breathing chuckleheads." They are an easy target, an unfortunate scapegoat who does reasonably well with what they have, especially with political meddling by local and state politicians looking to score political points over making wise leadership and governance of state resources. The constant badmouthing of that department (and/or other state agencies) is what is increasingly intolerable when it's almost entirely outside of their control.

As far as Texas roads, I accept that you disagree with me and others about the stark contrast between TxDOT and ODOT. What I can attest to, at least from my experience, is that many areas of Texas, including some areas around Dallas and some areas around Houston, arguably fall short of the utopian descriptors, like "créme," for non-Oklahoma roads and state agencies. In fact, my experience over recent months and years is that some stretches of I-35, I-35E and I-45 hardly surpass comparable stretches of our own I-35, I-40 and I-44. At the very least, the matter isn't quite as black-and-white as certain people make it out to be. I have no doubt that Texas funds their DOT better than ODOT. Take that up with the governor and legislature. The repeated bemoaning about ODOT and other state agencies betrays an underlying "red-headed stepchild" sentiment.

In a perfect world, we would have reasonable legislators and governors who recognized the substantial historical underfunding of many critical state agencies, ODOT among them.

Oh, I completely agree with you that ODOT isn’t just a bunch of morons who don’t know anything. It’s because of the state they don’t have the funding they need and I fully understand that. A gentleman I spoke with the other mentioned Texas has a lot of great stuff because they have multiple former presidents. . . Does that really make a difference?

TxDOT has 31 Billion in debt ..

The US which includes the state of Oklahoma and Texas is 28 trillion in debt.

The US which includes the state of Oklahoma and Texas is 28 trillion in debt.
how is that relevant .. ???

how is that relevant .. ???

Texas is managing their debt. Oklahoma by and large refuses to incur it. Even when it’s needed. This is part of the yokel hay seed mentality that holds us back. My favorite is run the government like a business well this business isn’t keeping up with the needs of its constituents. This is a government and it’s purpose is to serve the needs of constituents not return profits by decimating overhead costs

Texas is managing their debt. Oklahoma by and large refuses to incur it. Even when it’s needed. This is part of the yokel hay seed mentality that holds us back. My favorite is run the government like a business well this business isn’t keeping up with the needs of its constituents. This is a government and it’s purpose is to serve the needs of constituents not return profits by decimating overhead costs

Oklahoma can't operate with a debt, constitutionally. The federal debt has no relevance because it's meaningless. The fed doesn't operate in any reality when it comes to income vs expenditures, and revenues are really there just to remove money from the economy and (attempt) to manage inflation. Oklahoma has to actually have revenues to pay for everything the state does. Period. I'd much rather a state that doesn't operate in the red than one that incurs debt that must be repaid. If we need to increase revenue that's another discussion, but holding up going into extreme debt as some sort of goal to be championed? Absurd.