My son has lived in Scottsdale for 5 years now. I've got other relatives from the Phoenix area that have been there for years. They all say the traffic in their metro sucks terrible. Even though they are building new roads, the population rivals Dallas. They hate driving in Phoenix, say drivers are dangerous, etc. and it takes forever to get anywhere during the rush.

Phoenix nowhere near rivals Dallas in population. Dallas has some 3 million more people in their metro area than Phoenix.

Oklahoma consistently ranks at the bottom of every good list and the top of every bad one. Sure there are exceptions to that but anecdotally I’ve noticed what I said to be the rule. The bashing of Oklahoma shouldn’t be surprising and doesn’t mean those that do bash it hate the state.

Arizona has a much better active transportation network, road network, better infrastructure, better quality of life with more amenities, more social services, and Arizona places higher emphasis on land preservation. Mass transit is better in Arizona in general too.

These are steps Arizona has taken to improve itself and it is why the state is doing better than Oklahoma.

I am not sure why you are bringing up Colorado. Colorado has a huge freeway network in Denver but yes I agree with you their system leaves much to be desired. Colorado doesn’t strike me as the most freeway friendly state yet isn’t as anti-freeway as Oregon or NYSDOT.

Perhaps I missed your point in your original post but you can find always find ways to invalidate comparisons of Oklahoma to other states. Every state is unique and has its own challenges. Just because someone criticizes Oklahoma doesn’t mean they hate it. You need to grow some thicker skin and stop subscribing to Oklahoma mantra of “if you don’t like it leave” or my personal favorite “don’t let the door hit ya where the good lord spit ya.” Give me a break.

PS, I respect you Mug and I apologize in advance if my post came off harsh but telling me I hate Oklahoma is ridiculous!

PPS, I can talk a lot more sh!t on California than Oklahoma even though I love both of those places.

In the spirit of the Season, my appologies. Merry Christmas!

In the spirit of the Season, my appologies. Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas to you and a great New Years for you and your family!

Phoenix nowhere near rivals Dallas in population. Dallas has some 3 million more people in their metro area than Phoenix.

You must not realize the California invasion of the Arizona desert in the last couple of years - 5 million people is not much different than Dallas - Yes it's less than the DFW metroplex but not Dallas.

The Phoenix Metropolitan Area – often referred to as the Valley of the Sun, the Salt River Valley, or Metro Phoenix – is a metropolitan area, centered on the city of Phoenix, that includes much of the central part of the U.S. State of Arizona. The United States Office of Management and Budget designates the area as the Phoenix-Mesa-Scottsdale Metropolitan Statistical Area (MSA), defining it as Maricopa and Pinal counties. As of the Census Bureau's 2017 population estimates, Metro Phoenix had 4,737,270 residents, making it the 11th largest Metropolitan Area in the nation by population.

Almost 5 million 2 years ago...... I'm sure 2019 is much more.

For this weekend:


I-234, I-44 ramps close, I-44 narrows at Lincoln Blvd. Saturday
Drivers can expect the following closures from 7 a.m. to 3 p.m. Saturday for barrier wall movement
The northbound I-235 ramp to westbound I-44 will be closed
The westbound I-44 on-ramp from Lincoln Blvd. will be closed
Westbound I-44 will be narrowed to one lane between Lincoln Blvd. (mm 128A) and Western Ave. (mm 126)
I-235/I-44 interchange work continues through 2021; expect lane and ramp shifts
Drivers should be alert to the following traffic impacts in the I-235/US-77 construction zone at I-44 for ongoing reconstruction and widening that continues through 2021:
Motorists should be alert to changing conditions including lane shifts, narrowed lanes and workers along I-235 between N. 50th St. and N. 63rd St.
Northbound and southbound I-235 will remain open to two lanes in each direction during peak commute hours, but may narrow to one lane some nights and weekends.
Drivers are advised to use extra caution when merging onto southbound I-235/US-77 from N. 63rd St. as this on-ramp is shifted and the merge area will be shorter into early 2020.
East and westbound I-44 is narrowed and lanes shifted significantly between Lincoln Blvd. (mm 128A) and Western Ave. (mm 126) through 2020, speed limit is reduced.
The northbound I-235 off-ramp to N. 50th St. (mm 4A) is narrowed to one lane and Santa Fe Ave. is closed between N.E. 50th St. and N.E. 51st St. through winter 2019 for intersection modification. Motorists are advised to use an alternate route.
Motorists also should expect intermittent ramp closures throughout the project.
Motorists are reminded to use their Off Broadway alternate routes such as I-40, I-44, SH-74/Lake Hefner Parkway and Martin Luther King Ave. More information: https://www.ok.gov/odot/I-235_I-44_interchange.html

good thing it is I-234 so not impacting my route :)

There is a shiny new high capacity crawler crane that was assembled this past week on the southwest side of the interchange. Its a lot bigger than what has been out there in the past. They must be getting ready to start placing beams for the flyovers.

There is a shiny new high capacity crawler crane that was assembled this past week on the southwest side of the interchange. Its a lot bigger than what has been out there in the past. They must be getting ready to start placing beams for the flyovers.

Can’t wait. Plus once they open flyovers it will reduce traffic counts on the 235/44 bridge which will help as project gets to nitty gritty stages

From ODOT

The I-235/I-44 Off Broadway project in Oklahoma City is ready for an encore of full weekend closures starting Jan. 24 to allow the contractor to safely hang new bridge beams over the interstate. This will be the first of up to five full interstate closures this year for the up to $105 million interchange reconstruction.

Northbound and southbound I-235 will be closed between N. 50th St. and N. 63rd St.. The closure will begin at 7 p.m. Friday, Jan. 24, after the evening rush-hour and the interstate is expected to reopen no later than 6 a.m. Monday, Jan. 27, weather permitting but with the possibility of opening earlier if work completes.

Motorists also can expect the following ramp closures during this period:

Eastbound I-44 to southbound I-235;
Eastbound I-44 to northbound I-235/US-77;
Westbound I-44 to southbound I-235;
Westbound I-44 to northbound I-235/US-77; and
Northbound I-235 off-ramp to N. 63rd St.
I-235/US-77 will reopen to two lanes of travel in each direction, but the corridor remains narrow with little room to maneuver. Additional lane closures and traffic shifts will continue to occur throughout 2020 as lanes are added and the construction contract allows up to four additional complete interstate closures for a weekend each time. Those closures will be announced as information becomes available.

Motorists are reminded to stay Off Broadway for the duration of the project, if possible, and use alternate routes such as I-35, I-40, SH-74/Lake Hefner Parkway, Lincoln Blvd. and Martin Luther King Ave.

They started hanging EB to NB beams today. Doesnt seem like it will take them to hang three beams over I235 next weekend. I wonder if their doing NB to WB beams that same weekend.

One thing I can say (so far) this project has kept traffic flowing smoother than last one. The lowest speed is 45 whereas last one had it 35. Granted, can’t do 45 during rush but when 35 you had drivers slowing down to 30 even before needed and it stacked traffic up backwards bigtime. Now people drive safe yet can pace higher as allowed compared to before.

Can’t wait to see these go in and get cars moved to them.

Wish they would have a live cam of hanging the flyover pieces like they did with RR trusses. Anyone know of one?

It appears the northbound lanes will be moved west next to southbound lanes this weekend. Also noticed they hung beans on some of the flyover pillars. Not all but some.


Oklahoma Department of Transportation
@OKDOT
OKC: NB and SB I-235/US-77 will be narrowed to one lane in each direction between N. 50th St. and N. 63rd St. from 7 p.m. Friday to 6 p.m. Saturday for ongoing paving work. Motorists should expect new traffic patterns when lanes reopen.

It appears the northbound lanes will be moved west next to southbound lanes this weekend. Also noticed they hung beans on some of the flyover pillars. Not all but some.


Oklahoma Department of Transportation
@OKDOT
OKC: NB and SB I-235/US-77 will be narrowed to one lane in each direction between N. 50th St. and N. 63rd St. from 7 p.m. Friday to 6 p.m. Saturday for ongoing paving work. Motorists should expect new traffic patterns when lanes reopen.

They got a significant amount hung in a couple of days. They closed interstate for a brief period of time yesterday for the crane to cross to the other side.

They got a significant amount hung in a couple of days. They closed interstate for a brief period of time yesterday for the crane to cross to the other side.

Looks cool can’t wait for this project to be done though. They seem to be making great progress.

One note I wish they used taller cement barriers when driving at night its blinding with not much road markings and headlights facing you from opposing side.

Pete, could we get some updated aerial pics? Thanks.

https://i.imgur.com/hBwKjtu.jpg

I've not followed this thread, so please help me understand the flyovers, and the justification for their cost. I see two: 1) EB I-44 to NB I-235; and 2) NB I-235 to WB I-44. Traffic seeking these two routes are already served by existing, surface-level, 270-degree loops which are compact and cost-effective. Does ODOT justify these extensive (and expensive) flyovers to handle traffic volume that otherwise can't be accommodated by the surface 270s?

I've not followed this thread, so please help me understand the flyovers, and the justification for their cost. I see two: 1) EB I-44 to NB I-235; and 2) NB I-235 to WB I-44. Traffic seeking these two routes are already served by existing, surface-level, 270-degree loops which are compact and cost-effective. Does ODOT justify these extensive (and expensive) flyovers to handle traffic volume that otherwise can't be accommodated by the surface 270s?
Have you never driven in the 49 other states that have already implemented them for major interchanges? They’re light years ahead of cloverleafs.

I've not followed this thread, so please help me understand the flyovers, and the justification for their cost. I see two: 1) EB I-44 to NB I-235; and 2) NB I-235 to WB I-44. Traffic seeking these two routes are already served by existing, surface-level, 270-degree loops which are compact and cost-effective. Does ODOT justify these extensive (and expensive) flyovers to handle traffic volume that otherwise can't be accommodated by the surface 270s?
Are you seriously trying to advocate for cloverleafs? LOL! Other states started removing them decades ago.

The justification for cost is they keep traffic moving at 40-60 MPH instead of 20-30 MPH. It is much more efficient, preferred by trucking industry, and makes cloverleaf interchanges obsolete.

OK - thanks. I assumed that a multi-lane, high-speed flyover was more efficient than the surface-grade, single-lane 270, and therefore justifies the cost. Thx.

Its safety that justifies the cost. A full cover cloverleaf has four points where ramp traffic interacts with other ramp traffic while also interacting with regular interstate traffic. Even this design while not a full stack eliminates 3 of these points. The remaining point on the southbound side is still seeing a significant improvement with two dedicated lanes so at least your only dealing with ramp traffic and not the traffic already going southbound on the interstate.

OK - thanks. I assumed that a multi-lane, high-speed flyover was more efficient than the surface-grade, single-lane 270, and therefore justifies the cost. Thx.
Right and every other state in this country believes so too.

Without comparing the actual expected timeline, it feels like they are moving really fast on this project.

Maybe it is because I'm conditioned to expect these projects to finish years after expected, but I've been pleasantly surprised to see everything moving along.

No offense man, but either you’ve not yet had the pleasure of traveling on this or you bought a nickel and hit the torch before commenting??? What you would find had you ever tried to merge Or got stuck in that bottleneck is indescribable.only people who have experienced this know. This interchange has been a death trap since the 80’s.

Without comparing the actual expected timeline, it feels like they are moving really fast on this project.

Maybe it is because I'm conditioned to expect these projects to finish years after expected, but I've been pleasantly surprised to see everything moving along.

Agree, very happy so far. I see they moved the northbound lanes over west next ti southbound over weekend (as promised). Now they can work that east section hard. This coming weekend is the hard close to hang flyover sections. Once they open flyovers that will decrease the northbound bottleneck a tad too

Agree, very happy so far. I see they moved the northbound lanes over west next ti southbound over weekend (as promised). Now they can work that east section hard. This coming weekend is the hard close to hang flyover sections. Once they open flyovers that will decrease the northbound bottleneck a tad too

I noticed going NB that they left one of the old NB lanes opened for 63rd st and WB I44 ramp traffic. Wall was being moved over today.

Still a lot of work in this corner of the project so we may be looking at 6 months at least before NB flyover ramp opens. I see the other one being open a little bit sooner.

I noticed going NB that they left one of the old NB lanes opened for 63rd st and WB I44 ramp traffic. Wall was being moved over today.

Still a lot of work in this corner of the project so we may be looking at 6 months at least before NB flyover ramp opens. I see the other one being open a little bit sooner.

Agree on timing. I assume the current right NB lane (that is exit only for 50th st) will be used for the NB to WB flyover. If so then will help move that traffic to its own lane plus they won’t need to go over 44 to loop around west. Will help a ton.

So on the extra lane you mentioned. Does that mean to exit onto 63rd you have a dedicated lane? If so where is the decision point (to get off on lane that gets you to 63rd lane)? Is it right after 44 overpass and done like a Y?

I assume so. I actually used this dedicated lane oming from I44 but noticed 63rd off ramp traffic was using it too.

I went through this interchange last night around midnight on the way home from the airport. I was coming from EB I44 to NB-77. OMG it was so confusing. First of all it was dark as Hell. To enter the cloverleaf to go EB to NB, it is not marked at all, just one of those yellow and black markers bringing driver attention to a barrier. Going around the cloverleaf there are no pavement markings, no reflectors, and only your headlights shine the ground which is a plethora of different types of pavements and potholes. Once you get to the entrance to NB 77, you merge as usual but then all of a sudden it splits to new pavement and the 63rd Street exit, divided by a median barrier. Hardly ANY markings at all I actually was worried I had somehow crossed over into the SB lanes the wrong direction. It was so incredibly confusing.

I went through this interchange last night around midnight on the way home from the airport. I was coming from EB I44 to NB-77. OMG it was so confusing. First of all it was dark as Hell. To enter the cloverleaf to go EB to NB, it is not marked at all, just one of those yellow and black markers bringing driver attention to a barrier. Going around the cloverleaf there are no pavement markings, no reflectors, and only your headlights shine the ground which is a plethora of different types of pavements and potholes. Once you get to the entrance to NB 77, you merge as usual but then all of a sudden it splits to new pavement and the 63rd Street exit, divided by a median barrier. Hardly ANY markings at all I actually was worried I had somehow crossed over into the SB lanes the wrong direction. It was so incredibly confusing.

Contact your city councilperson and the governor and tell them how crappy this is, if enough people start doing that, maybe OKDOT will start doing the right thing. Oh wait, it's OKDOT, nevermind, hasn't gotten better in 50 years, won't in the next 50...

I went through this interchange last night around midnight on the way home from the airport. I was coming from EB I44 to NB-77. OMG it was so confusing. First of all it was dark as Hell. To enter the cloverleaf to go EB to NB, it is not marked at all, just one of those yellow and black markers bringing driver attention to a barrier. Going around the cloverleaf there are no pavement markings, no reflectors, and only your headlights shine the ground which is a plethora of different types of pavements and potholes. Once you get to the entrance to NB 77, you merge as usual but then all of a sudden it splits to new pavement and the 63rd Street exit, divided by a median barrier. Hardly ANY markings at all I actually was worried I had somehow crossed over into the SB lanes the wrong direction. It was so incredibly confusing.

Try it at night with rain its even funner.

On a good note the changes made northbound (moving lanes closer to west side) are helping reduce backups. It has to do with the 44 overpass. Going north and at the bridge you used to have on/off ramp (44 traffic) merging/exiting and needing to get to one of two northbound lanes. What they did is right after the bridge they made a Y. So merging onto 235N traffic has its own lane all the way thru and past the 63rd bridge. The left part of Y has 2 full lanes but no merging traffic so its not bottlenecked any longer. The left Y 2 lanes dump onto the left 2 lanes after 63rd bridge and the right lane from the 44 merge) is in its own lane that continues past 63rd bridge.

Its hard to explain but they have massively improved this section even during construction. I’m impressed by this minor change making such a huge rush hour diff!

Would be great if some local media would bring to light the this interesection not being illuminated (and other street lights out). I believe there was a story a while back, but for how much David Holt has been saying it's being worked on, there seems to be no progress.

The excuse that this is a construction zone and falls under Odot for maintain the lights is a terrible explanation. Construction zones should have more lighting than normal, not none at all (which seems to be the normal case in OKC).

This interchange hasn't had working lights even before construction began. The cloverleafs of death have been dark for at least half a decade.

This interchange hasn't had working lights even before construction began. The cloverleafs of death have been dark for at least half a decade.

Makes you wonder how long the lights will work after construction. Regarding temporary construction lighting, I don't see why they couldn't add some solar powered lights around the most dangerous areas.

Makes you wonder how long the lights will work after construction. Regarding temporary construction lighting, I don't see why they couldn't add some solar powered lights around the most dangerous areas.

I mean, they did exactly that with the last phase of construction around and under the railroad bridge! Shouldn't be that hard to put up a few temporary solar-powered LED streetlights while construction progresses.

The closure for this weekend has been postponed to the weekend of the 31st due to weather this week.

They have been assembling two sections of steel beams and hanging them over where NB lanes will eventually go. They needed to get all three of these beams hung because they will bolt a third section to these that will hang over the eventual SB side.

The closure for this weekend has been postponed to the weekend of the 31st due to weather this week.

They have been assembling two sections of steel beams and hanging them over where NB lanes will eventually go. They needed to get all three of these beams hung because they will bolt a third section to these that will hang over the eventual SB side.

Is the closure still on? they blamed the last one on rain, seems like it's rained as much or more.

What are they expected to do during the closure?

Is the closure still on? they blamed the last one on rain, seems like it's rained as much or more.

What are they expected to do during the closure?

Yes.

Published on Jan 29, 2020
I-235 from 36th to 63rd street will be closed Friday night @ 7pm through Monday, January 3 @ 6am. Terri Angier with the Oklahoma Department of Transportation has more information on the closure and the overall construction project.

Youtube but they could have done this in 3 minutes vice 9 if you ask me

https://youtu.be/n16IkyaFFcQ

Yes.

Published on Jan 29, 2020
I-235 from 36th to 63rd street will be closed Friday night @ 7pm through Monday, January 3 @ 6am. Terri Angier with the Oklahoma Department of Transportation has more information on the closure and the overall construction project.

Youtube but they could have done this in 3 minutes vice 9 if you ask me

https://youtu.be/n16IkyaFFcQ

I dare you to take a drink every time they say 'routine".

I dare you to take a drink every time they say 'routine".

don't tell him that... he will get Alcohol Poisoning

I dare you to take a drink every time they say 'routine".

Why do you think I have a hangover this morning lol

Took these about 10AM Sunday:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i23544020220a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i23544020220b.jpg

Thanks Pete! Fascinating!

Great pics Pete thanks!

Wish they coulda hung the north to west bridge too my guess that will be next pretty soon. Once they get those flyovers open it will be less cars going over the main bridges (235/44), which will help congestion. Currently cars entering/exiting that clover circle are what messes ip rush hour. We basically have little over 1 year left! Can’t wait.

Then to help pay for it the cops will be out in full force since traffic will unimpeded from Edmond to downtown and thats a lot of speeders lol. As is they catch em from turnpike down to 63rd then 50th to I40.

This is my favorite project to watch right now.

I love that Pete loves taking photos of the progress.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i23544020220c.jpg

Good thing the weather was good. Looks like once they get the crane down and finish the NB to EB ramp, they can move NB traffic onto the new bridge over the Deep Fork.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i23544021620a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i23544021620b.jpg

Why do these flyovers swing out so far? Seems like these take up much more land than the flyovers in Texas - or is that just the photo?

Why do these flyovers swing out so far? Seems like these take up much more land than the flyovers in Texas - or is that just the photo?They are built cheaper than the ones in Texas. OkDOT building them on berms as much as possible to save money and IMO cheap out. I like the Texas stacks better.

They are built cheaper than the ones in Texas. OkDOT building them on berms as much as possible to save money and IMO cheap out. I like the Texas stacks better.

Mainly because Texas gets way more federal dollars than OK ever could. Like, ever.

Why do these flyovers swing out so far? Seems like these take up much more land than the flyovers in Texas - or is that just the photo?

If you mean the closest one, non of the main road lanes have been built, so between travel and breakdown lanes there will be 8-10 more lanes built in that area.

The unusual priority given to nearby entrances/exits at Lincoln & 63rd are factors on the design as well.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i23544021620a.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/i234i44final1.jpg

Mainly because Texas gets way more federal dollars than OK ever could. Like, ever.
OK is also a quarter of the land mass AND population of Texas.

Texas can build a 100 of those stacks and Oklahoma can’t even build one.

To me it looks like a reasonable degree of turn lol

Why do these flyovers swing out so far? Seems like these take up much more land than the flyovers in Texas - or is that just the photo?

it is just the photo they don't take up more land than the texas ones

OK is also a quarter of the land mass AND population of Texas.

Texas can build a 100 of those stacks and Oklahoma can’t even build one.

Again, because they get more money. I don't even think it is proportional, either. I think they get infinitely more money from the Fed than OK does.

Again, because they get more money. I don't even think it is proportional, either. I think they get infinitely more money from the Fed than OK does.Surely it has something to do with Oklahoma being one of the lowest taxed states as well as federal funding goes.

Surely it has something to do with Oklahoma being one of the lowest taxed states as well as federal funding goes.

Its all of the above but also, the state authorized the TX dept. Of Transportation to issue something like $6 billion of bonds for freeway construction. On top of that, the state has several regional toll road authorities which have resulted in the construction of around 25 toll roads.

The Texas Legislature has imposed a moratorium on any further toll road construction.