Wow, now I'm almost glad this project was chosen. What a great way for Brooks to instill faith in people watching on.

You're right, Spartan. When was the last time we had a developer who decided to put more money into a project instead of scaling back?

I hope at least someone sneaks in a mural or painting of 'The Edge' from U2.

You're right, Spartan. When was the last time we had a developer who decided to put more money into a project instead of scaling back?

No kidding. All that ever happens is downsizing of projects any more. This is great, and it reaffirms our hope that the economy is rebounding and lending/investing is loosening up.

So far, this news has shown that it's important to remain flexible on your opinion of a project and of a developer. Maybe Brooks and Henderson really were ashamed of how lame Legacy turned out and want to "right that wrong." What better way than to do a huge LEED housing project? Wow, that is a new one for OKC.

What area do you all think has more potential,Midtown or DD?MAybe Midtown has a more mixed use potential and DD is more residential,both will have a streetcar line.This is gonna a be fun watching these two areas grow!

I think DD because it has growth constraints on all sides which will increase density and then raise values. Remember when everyone thought DD apartments were high density? Look at them now. Except for the vacant lots they are the lest dense part of the area. If they don't go condo in the next 5 years I can see them being replaced by mid-rise buildings.

I think DD because it has growth constraints on all sides which will increase density and then raise values. Remember when everyone thought DD apartments were high density? Look at them now. Except for the vacant lots they are the lest dense part of the area. If they don't go condo in the next 5 years I can see them being replaced by mid-rise buildings.

we are not close to the point that existing (profitible) apts are going to be torndown to build anything else ..

which is why midtown has much more potential than DD

we are not close to the point that existing (profitible) apts are going to be torndown to build anything else ..

which is why midtown has much more potential than DD

Just wait until mass transit meets limited open space. In 5 years they will be 16 years old.

Just wait until mass transit meets limited open space. In 5 years they will be 16 years old.

the modern street car won't be going into DD in the next 5 years

More equipment on site today.

the modern street car won't be going into DD in the next 5 years

I think there are possibilities being looked at that may change that prognosis, but generally you're right. It's just a matter of having to commit to a route that has some kind of linear definition.

More equipment on site today.
Walker is being worked on, public works is using site for equipment storage. Has nothing to do with the site development.

Walker is being worked on, public works is using site for equipment storage. Has nothing to do with the site development.

It's not a street resurfacing is it? I thought it got totally redone just about 3 or 4 years ago.

I was going to take pictures today like the ones I posted on 1212, but it was just an empty field with one or two work trucks, nothing new really.

Project still has to go through downtown design review, get construction permit.

It's not a street resurfacing is it? I thought it got totally redone just about 3 or 4 years ago.

They are/were putting the water service, fire sprinkler standpipe, and fire hydrant in for the Walker housing down the street.

The lot was just being used for staging. Any resurfacing is just to patch the water main excavation.

They are/were putting the water service, fire sprinkler standpipe, and fire hydrant in for the Walker housing down the street.

The lot was just being used for staging. Any resurfacing is just to patch the water main excavation.

Thanks.

Project still has to go through downtown design review, get construction permit.

They filed for a building permit on 12/14/11, so they are moving along.

No doubt, they want to get things started. But again, they don't have what they need to start construction yet. They'll need a CA from downtown design before they can get the building permit.

I would think that especially considering OCURA's involvement in the project and the high-profile nature of this project, that some kind of rendering sign would be nice.

I recieved a flyer yesterday from Mesta Park HOA alerting us to this project and it's implications and encourageing residents of Mesta Park to attend the downtown design reveiw meeting to "Voice our concerns". It also included a list of "our concerns", some of them seemed legitimate, others downright petty, but it seems like this project will meet some resistance in the near future. Hard to say how much resistance, but at least some.

Can you list the concerns? Would be interesting to see.


However, this project is on the other side of a 4-lane 13th Street with a commercial buffer on the north side of 13th.

What are some of the listed concerns?

I recieved a flyer yesterday from Mesta Park HOA alerting us to this project and it's implications and encourageing residents of Mesta Park to attend the downtown design reveiw meeting to "Voice our concerns". It also included a list of "our concerns", some of them seemed legitimate, others downright petty, but it seems like this project will meet some resistance in the near future. Hard to say how much resistance, but at least some.
Can you scan and post the flyer?

I'm at work now, flyer is at home, I can bring it up to work tomorrow and scan it. Off the top of my head there were concerns on how this could affect traffic in the neighborhood, use of local parks, they seemed to be concerned about the overall scale of the project.
Maybe I was reading too much into it, but it seemed like a thinly veiled "RENTERS who live in this complex are going to using OUR streets and OUR park, keep the riff raff out of here" which seems ironic considering the amount of (harmless) homeless people nearby.

I might need to change my profile name to better conceal my identity, else the off-duty cop on patrol in Mesta/Heritage might get orders to post up outside my front door to "send a message".

Can you list the concerns? Would be interesting to see.


However, this project is on the other side of a 4-lane 13th Street with a commercial buffer on the north side of 13th.

this ...

any "protest" of this project is crazy .. HH and mesta have built in huge seperation from this site already ..

It has been public knowledge for almost a year that an apartment complex was going to go on that site. They should have been more vocal regarding the developer selection if they had such a problem. Besides, I'm positive I remember one of Steve's articles saying that representatives from Heritage Hills and Mesta Park favored the Edge over any of the other possibilities. Now, they want to raise a fuss because they realize it's going to add too many people to an INNER CITY neighborhood? lol

I would like to to think that this is a fairly small contingent of homeowners who distributed the flyer.

What a snooty old bunch of farts. If I were you, I would tell them you welcome a large overgrown lot of weeds being transformed into a vibrant urban neighborhood. If they're concerned about the density, there are plenty of sprawling housing developments in this metro area to which they can move. Perhaps Edmond is more to their liking.

What these bozos don't understand is that adding people to the area is going to improve their property values to a signficant degree.

Home values in Mesta/HH have increased faster than just about anywhere else in the Metro over the last 10 years, all due to the new development in the area.

This project will only help continue that trend.

If I were you, I would tell them you welcome a large overgrown lot of weeds being transformed into a vibrant urban neighborhood...
...What these bozos don't understand is that adding people to the area is going to improve their property values to a signficant degree.

I'm a renter, they don't care what I think. And if this project is done well, which it seems to be on track for, then I agree that property values will benefit, if it turns out like the Legacy however...?


I would like to to think that this is a fairly small contingent of homeowners who distributed the flyer.

I would like to think you are right. The flyer was unclear as to if the author was against the project as a whole, or possibly just wanting to make sure that plans were in place to accomidate the increased density in the area.

HH & Mesta HOA's are strongly considering hiring legal representation to fight this project. A couple legitimate concerns, but mostly NIMBYism.

This is really lame. People that live there that support this project need to speak up.

They used some poor wording on a few of the issues presented in the flyer. The two that caught my eye the most were concerns about lack of parking, concerns of what businesses will be in the apartments, lack of space from curb to building, lack of green spaces for pets, utility usage, available water to the area and traffic brought to the neighborhood.

They also pointed out that they were concerned with what would happen to area schools, which is funny because I would bet good money that most of the kids in the heritage hill / mesta goto private schools. Hell, most the people in that area are of age to be grandparents. Not too many school age kids. There are some kids in the area who are really young it looks like on 16th, but not many. Most the kids come from people who rent in the area, which I am sure pisses off all the HH/MP old money people.

The people in this area should be more supportive of this project. I rent in the area, and having that crappy empty lot that is only used on Sunday mornings is disgusting. The flyer sent out came across as a call to battle against it. They made a point to show that if the proposal doesn't pass the meeting, it is dead.

This design has already passed before several city bodies, including the Downtown Design Review Committee. The DDRC actually came back to the developers with some suggested changes which they have made.

This will pass the committee easily and even if it doesn't, likely there will just be a few suggested tweaks.


People may recall the original selection of the Overholser Green project was due to asking the input of MP/HH homeowners. Of course, they wanted the expensive condo option but that project failed miserably and only delayed development of this key parcel for years.

Not sure where the opponents are coming from on this. Wanted to attend a presentation about the project to the Neighborhood Assoc. last week where I heard these concerns were voiced, but I wasn't in town.

These particular apartments offer far fewer reasons for concern than other buildings that have been around for decades (the new part of the Aberdeen Apartments, for example, a pretty ugly design that does little to enhance the neighborhood).

If we want to take on design concerns in our neighborhood, how about the enormous surface parking lots that cut into the Mesta Park neighborhood around American Fidelity? The same situation in Heritage Hills around St. Luke's? These lots, especially American Fidelity's, are far more detrimental to the property values, appearance, and security of our neighborhood than a fairly expensive apartment complex in a clearly separate nearby neighborhood, which will fill with young energy company employees and their new puppies. In fact, residents of these apartments are likely to be future homebuyers in HH/MP. It's good marketing.

Here is the notice sent out to Mesta Park residents.

http://i1067.photobucket.com/albums/u422/johncurw/MestaParkNotice.jpg

Just curious. From whom did this letter come? Interesting that they use the heading "General Concerns" and then list out nearly every aspect of the project. Lol

This reminds me of the whole uproar that occurred in Crown Heights a few years ago when the Humphreys tried to develop the land behind First Christian and adjacent to the Broadway Extension. When are these older neighborhoods going to realize that they are situated in an urban environment and all the blocks of empty land aren't going to stay that way for ever? If a good, solid project is going to into these areas and the developer is willing to work with concerned residents, its a lot better than an out of state developer coming in and building a strip mall that will house a liquor store, dry cleaners and gas station.

Lot of bad info going out in these emails.

No name attached, this was not an e-mail it was a flyer delivered to each house in Mesta Park.

Thanks very much, Curtis.

Sounds like the HOA's aren't necessarily behind this; could just be one or two people, especially since no name was signed to the letter.

I live in Mesta, 1/2 a block west of HH, and haven't received a flyer.

Wonder if they skipped my block since we are about half apartments, half single family - in other words, already part of this riff-raff. :)

I think people need to back off the neighborhood associations. These neighborhoods are strong because they have a good association and they do have concerns about new developments. Let's remember that this developer does have a track record for a recent multifamily housing development. I know we keep hearing that the EDGE will be different but we should all be concerned about this until it is completed.

Okc needs more (not less) of these type of neighborhood associations.

I think people need to back off the neighborhood associations. These neighborhoods are strong because they have a good association and they do have concerns about new developments. Let's remember that this developer does have a track record for a recent multifamily housing development. I know we keep hearing that the EDGE will be different but we should all be concerned about this until it is completed.

Okc needs more (not less) of these type of neighborhood associations.

I'm glad he has a track record of success. Is that a bad thing? I don't think you need to back off HOA's when they are over stepping their bounds and making false claims and/or requesting ridiculous things from the developer. Also, there are many things they are saying that are veiled in some pretty poor attitudes/views.

Some people are so resistant to change. I also find in funny that the "concerns" are a summary of the project.

Very nice post, Sid.

this project is not in their neighborhood and will will not be part of their neighborhood asociation ...

all the residents will be able to become members of Urban Neighbors (downtowns neighborhood asociation)

they don't like the lack of set backs ..IMHO that is 100% non negiotable they don't like the # of apts IMHO more would be better they don't like the height / IMHO taller would be better they want to control/limit the retail space / IMHO non of thier business they don't control any of the space on walker south of 13th ...

and as others have said they have a 4 lane road buffer and a row of com development on the north side of 13th between this development and HH/mesta

and they ask if you opose this development come to the meeting ..... well i would say those that support this development (and those like it) to come to the meeting if you can

So I take it that neither Heritage Hills nor Mesta Park NA boards contacted the UN board? They should respect their boundaries. It is not in their neighborhood. If they still have a problem with it, they should reach out to the UN and follow common etiquette protocol.

I read that memo and saw it dissolve into Teacher speak from a Charlie Brown special. Once I translated it to simple English, all I really see is "It's different than us, and that's bad." Yeah, the suggestion that supporters think about packing the house might cause some of the concerners to be less likely to want to speak out on whatever it is that's truly bugging them.

Wonk, whaa, wah, haa, hah...

Thanks very much, Curtis.

Sounds like the HOA's aren't necessarily behind this; could just be one or two people, especially since no name was signed to the letter.

The more I think about it, the more I think your right about this not being driven by the HOA.

So I take it that neither Heritage Hills nor Mesta Park NA boards contacted the UN board? They should respect their boundaries. It is not in their neighborhood. If they still have a problem with it, they should reach out to the UN and follow common etiquette protocol.
This is BS, Midtown is viable because people in HH and MP worked very hard to stabilize it and make it an attractive area for investment. Heritage Hills has a total 135 houses, in all of HH. The density of 255 units is very damaging to their hard work to bring back the heritage neighborhoods; as well as Midtown. The number of 1 bedrooms is to attract a transient population. It is not about building a new neighborhood. UN has not been active in this neighborhood but to have parties at the restaurants. What a laugh that these neighborhoods which have worked for decades to save this area should go beg permission from UN. So insulting.
The City's own consultants determined what the appropriate density should be here on page 22- 25.
http://www.okc.gov/planning/tenthstreet/10thstreetreport.pdf

The Saint Anthony electric grid is severely compromised currently. There where many brown outs last summer with the high heat. The Sieber had to upgrade their service again just as the project was coming on line. Regardless of their excess service to protect them in the summer, the elevators were knocked out 4 times resulting in very expensive service calls.

It is unfortunate that the new president of Heritage Hills at the time did not know it was his responsibility to advise his board. The number of people concerned definitely number in the hundreds.

that plan/study is horrbile concerning this site ... the "plan" calls for surface parking in the middle .. and being south of HH has nothing to do with making this site good for housing ... the fact that the site is large and in Midtown close to a growing bar and restaraunt district is why it is a great spot for housing

the idea that it needs to be a transition property from HH/mesta to midtown is a joke .. the mercy site is not next to or across the street from any Residential

it is across the street (4lane street) from a comercial buffer ... Midtown is not viable because of HH and mp it is viable because it is Midtown has a huge employeer in its district up and coming residential and destination growing food/bar retail

"This is BS," "So insulting."

Look, UN is a formally organized NA through Neighborhood Alliance and registered as a non-profit at the state. It has formal boundaries just like Heritage Hills and Mesta Park. They have board/business meetings once a month. It is a proper courtesy to respect that and reach out to the UN board to let them formally know what your concerns are and ask for formal support.

I am not debating the merits of a logical argument with regards to whether the support services are there. We all know that often such systems are often stretched thin. But organize what the issues are in a comprehensive manner.

NA's should support one another and their positive development as organizations. Tearing one down based on historic organizational merits doesn't help build a cohesive positive community. There were plenty of civic pursuits that UN members have pursued over many years for the greater good as has MP and HH.

This is BS, Midtown is viable because people in HH and MP worked very hard to stabilize it and make it an attractive area for investment. Heritage Hills has a total 135 houses, in all of HH. The density of 255 units is very damaging to their hard work to bring back the heritage neighborhoods; as well as Midtown.

Doesn't the child you raise eventually have to grow up and take on its own identity someday? Looks like your plan of stabilization is backfiring on you.....better run for the hills because it looks like Midtown is booming and bringing all sorts of economic success to the city.

What nobody is mentioning yet is that the president of the Heritage Hills neighborhood association was on the committee that recommended The Edge be chosen. Gotta hate it when someone like me is taking notes....

Yes Steve, the neighborhood knows that now. But he could not speak for the neighborhood without going back to the board. Which he didn't.

It seems like some of the concerns expressed in the flyer and by city just now are valid. Water pressure in the area is pretty bad, I've never experienced any of the power issues city complained about but I will give him the benifit of the doubt. Investment to the infastructure in the area might be long over due.

But complaints about the height and density of the project just seem ludicris. You live in a neighborhood that borders midtown, which was revived due to its history AND its proximity to the CBD, and now you want to complain about greater density? I moved to this area BECAUSE of the vibrant develoment happening in the area: new restraunts, bars, shops and coffee shops. This project will increase that development exponentially and sustain it.

And its not exactly "transient" rif-raff that will be moving in, $1000/month rent (minimum) is a lot more than the average 23rd street hobo is paying to "live" in the area. How much effect do you really think this will have on the local school systems too? I would guess a maximum of 25 school age kids to wind up living here.

Assuming the necessary infastructure improvements are made, I can only see this improving the real-estate values and the cohesiveness of this area.

I bet city is the same sort of person that when he(she?) saw the massive tsunami that hit Japan said, "well what do you expect, you live in Japan!" and is now part of revitalizing a neighborhood on the border of midtown and complaining that he(she?) doesnt have a buffer zone of white picket fences for ten miles in every direction, what did you expect?

Voice your concerns, but embrace the development.

All concerns should be heard with the valid ones acted on and the ridiculous ones ignored. You cannot chastise people for wanting to protect their way of life and investment. In the end, the will of society will win out. In the name of progress, let's not trample over people. In the end, this project will go forward essentially as proposed. It doesn't mean that everybody gives up their right to protest though.

If indeed there are issues with water pressure and electrical service in that area, then this is a much bigger issue than just The Edge. There is tons of development going on in the area with much more to come.

However, at one time there was much, much more density in this area... All those vacant and abandoned buildings were once fully built-out and occupied, from 13th south to the CBD and all the way west to Classen and east to the RR tracks. There had to be the infrastructure to support it then and I find it hard to believe that it is suddenly deficient.

I don't see anything wrong with the intent of this letter, I see this simply as a notice. In fact it is fairly common for HH and MP residents to receive this type of notice for many projects that happen in and around the neighborhood. It is to be expected when you live in a historical neighborhood with a strong association.

Like I said Okc needs more stronger neighborhoods and community watchdogs.

If indeed there are issues with water pressure and electrical service in that area, then this is a much bigger issue than just The Edge. There is tons of development going on in the area with much more to come.

However, at one time there was much, much more density in this area... All those vacant and abandoned buildings were once fully built-out and occupied, from 13th south to the CBD and all the way west to Classen and east to the RR tracks. There had to be the infrastructure to support it then and I find it hard to believe that it is suddenly deficient.
With none of the electrical requirements of Today. St Anthony is a huge power consumer and using more all the time with new science equipment. Heritage Hill's 14th street and south of Classen Drive are all on the St. Anthony grid. The need for power is vastly different than in the past when this was a vibrant community.
Honestly, I imagine a development of 100 would compromise the current grid.