Well as far as I know, nothing, other than the very real likelihood that Larry Nichols makes this a little bit different this time around. I wouldn't want to be the guy who tried to get away with shoddy crap on Nichols' watch.

Who was OCURA chairman the last time 'shoddy crap' was allowed? I assume by 'shoddy crap' you are referring to Legacy.

OCURA chairmen

Thanks. Guess that had escaped me.

Well they did adhere to our request for the "corner clip" for the streetcar so the site design it seems is responding well to other environmental issues.

While I wouldn't call this a Transit Oriented Development, undoubtedly it will more than likely be the most integrated housing project into the streetcar system of the planned housing projects in that the streetcar will literally come on the property.

Who was OCURA chairman the last time 'shoddy crap' was allowed? I assume by 'shoddy crap' you are referring to Legacy.

Stanton Young was chairman when the Legacy project was awarded and reviewed.

Larry Nichols was a prominent OCURA commissioner for both the Legacy project and the debacle surrounding The Hill.

Larry Nichols was a prominent OCURA commissioner for both the Legacy project and the debacle surrounding The Hill.

Give Larry his due though - the OCURA land at the corner of Hudson and Sheridan came out pretty well. One out of three isn't bad.

BTW - thanks Steve. I didn't think it was LN, but I couldn't remember who it was.

Larry Nichols was a prominent OCURA commissioner for both the Legacy project and the debacle surrounding The Hill.

No doubt he cast key votes on both. Didn't mean to imply otherwise. Just giving correct info on chair position

Understood!

I just wanted to clarify that Nichols has been involved with OCURA for decades, so the idea they are suddenly going to start making much better decisions due his involvement is at least a bit misguided.

If anything, the chairman usually doesn't voice opinion or vote unless there is a stalemate, so he may have less influence rather than more.

Understood!

I just wanted to clarify that Nichols has been involved with OCURA for decades, so the idea they are suddenly going to start making much better decisions due his involvement is at least a bit misguided.

If anything, the chairman usually doesn't voice opinion or vote unless there is a stalemate, so he may have less influence rather than more.

No, but I do think it is reasonable to believe that Larry Nichols, whose involvement in the community is surging, is taking on OCURA more. It is now becoming an embodiment of him and his way of doing business (not attacking or even commenting on that), especially with this new Authority thingy. Essentially, I think Nichols is going to be much more on top of this stuff than Stanton Young was, and I would hate to be in the cross hairs of someone like that who just simply gets things done.

If the Devon Center is representative of Larry's vision of quality, I am all for it.

Agree. If he applies the same standards (on time, on budget, as pitched)...

If the Devon Center is representative of Larry's vision of quality, I am all for it.

LOL - so far Devon Tower appears to be the outlier in the data set. Of course, that is probably the difference between playing the part of planners (OCURA), and actualy having to lay the money out yourself (Devon Tower).

Look at the current Devon building. Prior to Devon it wasn't much to brag about. They made it much nicer. Larry has always been committed to quality.

I think it will be more about the involvement of Cathy O'Conner in OCURA, that will be the difference maker than Larry Nichols.

Understood!

I just wanted to clarify that Nichols has been involved with OCURA for decades, so the idea they are suddenly going to start making much better decisions due his involvement is at least a bit misguided.

If anything, the chairman usually doesn't voice opinion or vote unless there is a stalemate, so he may have less influence rather than more.

Um, no, Stanton actually had A LOT of influence as chairman. A lot of nuance here....

Well, there is certainly no doubt that Nichols's influence in city matters is greatly expanding.

He is now chairman of the new Alliance for Economic Development, chairman of OCURA, member (along with his employee, John Williams) of the Convention Center Sub-committee, board member for the Chamber of Commerce (former chairman), past chairman of the State Chamber, director for the National Cowboy Museum, Downtown OKC, Inc., the Myriad Gardens, the State Fair board and who knows what else.


There is no doubt he means well and we all greatly appreciate Devon Tower. But he's been a part of some very bad decisions made by OCURA, seems to have financed some shady dealings in the recent city council election and is now heavily involved in controversial tactics surrounding MAPS 3 and the convention center.

I don't doubt that his intentions are good but one person having this much power is scary, especially when his past judgment in several key civic issues has been dubious.

Being smart/good at one thing (the oil and gas business) does not make you brilliant at everything. In fact, you could make a strong argument that the hubris that comes from corporate success has led to lots of civic disasters.

Has anyone obtained a copy of the site plan that was approved and can post it? It would be interesting to see how they resolved the issues/board suggestions regarding the garage and retail.

Well, there is certainly no doubt that Nichols's influence in city matters is greatly expanding.

He is now chairman of the new Alliance for Economic Development, chairman of OCURA, member (along with his employee, John Williams) of the Convention Center Sub-committee, board member for the Chamber of Commerce (former chairman), past chairman of the State Chamber, director for the National Cowboy Museum, Downtown OKC, Inc., the Myriad Gardens, the State Fair board and who knows what else.

There is no doubt he means well and we all greatly appreciate Devon Tower. But he's been a part of some very bad decisions made by OCURA, seems to have financed some shady dealings in the recent city council election and is now heavily involved in controversial tactics surrounding MAPS 3 and the convention center.

I don't doubt that his intentions are good but one person having this much power is scary, especially when his past judgment in several key civic issues has been dubious.

Being smart/good at one thing (the oil and gas business) does not make you brilliant at everything. In fact, you could make a strong argument that the hubris that comes from corporate success has led to lots of civic disasters.


You are probably right, but he also has the clout to get things done when many others don't.

That's very true Rover, and there is a lot to be said for that. And on the whole, his money, time and influence have been fantastic for OKC.

I just worry about him deciding that he doesn't like the street car (just as an example) and using all that power in a way lots of us don't want. I think that is already happening with the convention center.

And it's also the way this city was run for decades: way too much power and control concentrated in the hands of a few people that were equally confident they knew what was best.

Well, there is certainly no doubt that Nichols's influence in city matters is greatly expanding.

He is now chairman of the new Alliance for Economic Development, chairman of OCURA, member (along with his employee, John Williams) of the Convention Center Sub-committee, board member for the Chamber of Commerce (former chairman), past chairman of the State Chamber, director for the National Cowboy Museum, Downtown OKC, Inc., the Myriad Gardens, the State Fair board and who knows what else.


There is no doubt he means well and we all greatly appreciate Devon Tower. But he's been a part of some very bad decisions made by OCURA, seems to have financed some shady dealings in the recent city council election and is now heavily involved in controversial tactics surrounding MAPS 3 and the convention center.

I don't doubt that his intentions are good but one person having this much power is scary, especially when his past judgment in several key civic issues has been dubious.

Just to throw this out while we are on the subject. The land Devon Tower sits on was sold to Devon by OCURA. Basically Larry Nichols sold public land to himself. However, I think he abstained from voting to avoid a conflict of interest (I almost laughed out loud while typing that last sentence).

Nichols resigned from OCURA before that deal went through. I really don't have an issue with that and am of course thrilled with how that land was used.

Has anyone obtained a copy of the site plan that was approved and can post it? It would be interesting to see how they resolved the issues/board suggestions regarding the garage and retail.

Anyone?

Nichols resigned from OCURA before that deal went through. I really don't have an issue with that and am of course thrilled with how that land was used.

He resigned and then he was made Chariman, how did that happen? How long was he not a part of OCURA? For the record, I am not anti-Nichols either. I might disagree with him on the CC stuff but that is only about 2% of what he does. A 98% approval rating is pretty good.

Maybe we need an OCURA thread to put some of these questions and comments since we have strayed from Mercy a bit.

Has Brooks filed to submit his project for design review next month?


Brooks said he is pursuing an aggressive schedule that calls for submittal of the project to the Downtown Design Review Committee in September and construction to start in August 2012.

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-urban-renewal-approves-development-contract-for-midtown-housing/article/3593401#ixzz1WA9zI8BC


I really hope that OCURA keeps on Mr. Brooks on schedule.

Yes, they made some minor changes to the street level retail and to the NW corner for the streetcar line. Now it's submitted I believe.

Survey stakes on the site now...

He resigned and then he was made Chariman, how did that happen? How long was he not a part of OCURA? For the record, I am not anti-Nichols either. I might disagree with him on the CC stuff but that is only about 2% of what he does. A 98% approval rating is pretty good.

Maybe we need an OCURA thread to put some of these questions and comments since we have strayed from Mercy a bit.

We DO have an OCURA thread, have had several for years

They're doing soil testing/drillling on the site today. It was nice to see some activity there.

I forget how far Wiggin got, but I believe Henderson is already further along??

Just a clarification; Henderson is not the developer for the Mercy site, Gary Brooks is.

Leslie Batchelor, an attorney for Urban Renewal, reported that an appraisal by consultant Michael Stacy suggests the land be sold to Brooks for $1,020,000 – more than the $850,000 purchase price submitted by Brooks when he competed for the project against four other development groups.

Read more: http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-urban-renewal-approves-development-contract-for-midtown-housing/article/3593401#ixzz1Z64ibNC5


Is there any truth that this piece of information is causing problems and will delay this project?

Final approval of plat goes before the Downtown Design Review Committee in a couple of weeks. Looks like they are moving along:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/edge1111.jpg

Site plan looks really good. That corner cut on the NW will probably raise some questions, but that was important to get a concession on so that the streetcar line doesn't have to make a hard right turn there. When will they put a sign up??


Just a clarification; Henderson is not the developer for the Mercy site, Gary Brooks is.

Okay, fine. Brooks/Henderson. Henderson is more of a "known" factor to most though.

I'm very excited that they incorporated our streetcar line into their site plan. It is important to make that right hand turn off of Dewey onto 13th at the proper radius. I have also seen plans depicting a stop at Walker that they have provided room for. All very promising thus far.

Very cool. I was wondering about that diagonal NE corner as well, is that for the tram stop?

Very cool. I was wondering about that diagonal NE corner as well, is that for the tram stop?

No. It is just on the curb there and not depicted in any way. I'm actually thinking of advocating that right hand turn be made through grass/landscaping so that the track is completely isolated from the pedestrian area. In that way the operator doesn't have to worry quite as much not being able to see pedestrians on that bend. They should be on a sidewalk. Not on the tracks, thus the "greenbelt" idea.

Site plan looks really good. That corner cut on the NW will probably raise some questions, but that was important to get a concession on so that the streetcar line doesn't have to make a hard right turn there. When will they put a sign up??



Okay, fine. Brooks/Henderson. Henderson is more of a "known" factor to most though.

The more I learn about this project, the more I'd say it's Brooks alone, with Henderson only as an investor, but not leading the development...

It seems that way.

Wanted to note that Gary Brooks was quoted by OKC.BIZ that he hopes to break ground in August of 2012.

Pete, since this project has a name, you should change the title of this thread to
The Edge @ Midtown.

*gag* @ the name

hopefully they make a website and Facebook like Level, so we get updated on the construction process, and have access to a photo gallery.

*gag* @ the name

I share this sentiment. The name sounds like some dorky apartment complex with fake lofts near a university, not somewhere actual adults would move. Whoever came up with this concept needs to take a step back and think rationally about what their branding says about their property. It's certainly not a message of distinction. What about something simple like Midtown Village?

Goofy names like this seem to go hand in hand with having local yokels as developers. They really have no clue what they're doing.

They really have no clue what they're doing.

Or at least don't really have a feel for the neighborhood when they spend all their time in suburbia.

It is great we have so many cool marketing geniuses on this board. Nothing is ever as smart or cool as them. LOL. It is amazing. Can't leave it as "I don't care for the name", but have to insult everyone else in the process.

It is great we have so many cool marketing geniuses on this board. Nothing is ever as smart or cool as them. LOL. It is amazing. Can't leave it as "I don't care for the name", but have to insult everyone else in the process.

You're right, Rover. Obviously we need some outsiders to come into OKC to tell us what is cool for us because we don't have a clue. LOL

I share this sentiment. The name sounds like some dorky apartment complex with fake lofts near a university, not somewhere actual adults would move. Whoever came up with this concept needs to take a step back and think rationally about what their branding says about their property. It's certainly not a message of distinction. What about something simple like Midtown Village?

Goofy names like this seem to go hand in hand with having local yokels as developers. They really have no clue what they're doing.

Well then you two must pack your tent and Occupy the Edge!!!!!!!!!

For what its worth there are some student owned condos in Norman called the Edge.

I agree the name is pretty weak.

The problem is that OKC developers still see apartments as temporary living conditions for the tennants, and build brand recognition accordingly. It would be nice if someone built a development focused towards long-term rental with 5, 10 or 15 year leases and marketed them as such. Not everyone who rents wants to move every year and don't want to live in an "apartment complex".

I am actually dishartened at OKC's developers and their near total lack of urban knowledge. They have fed so long on the milk of suburbia they are unable to eat meat. That is a little biblical reference.

Not to defend it, but I think that "The Edge" originated from being on what is considered the formal "edge" of the downtown neighborhood proper. That is before you formally cross over into Heritage Hills and Mesta Park.

If the building design is cool enough, it might actually aesthetically fit. Nothing is quite as bad as "The Legacy." Legacy of what? lol With that for comparison, "The Edge" is an improvement IMO.

please show me a place that has 5/10/15 apt leases

The problem is that OKC developers still see apartments as temporary living conditions for the tennants, and build brand recognition accordingly. It would be nice if someone built a development focused towards long-term rental with 5, 10 or 15 year leases and marketed them as such. Not everyone who rents wants to move every year and don't want to live in an "apartment complex".

I am actually dishartened at OKC's developers and their near total lack of urban knowledge. They have fed so long on the milk of suburbia they are unable to eat meat. That is a little biblical reference.

Rental is by definition short term...annual mostly. Leasing can be longer, but usually not much longer. Apartment owners (urban or otherwise) don't get locked into long term leases were they would have locked in financials over an unusually long period of time. And why in the world would you even want a 15 year lease that would wind up being more expensive than a purchase. This isn't an urban vs. suburban issue, it is a financial and sensibility issue. You don't get 5-10 or 15 year apartment rentals in New York City and I don't know of many areas more urban than that. Best you can do is have renewable contracts with rent control.

please show me a place that has 5/10/15 apt leases

There many apartment homes here in central Philly that have long term leases available. Some penthouse apartments rent for over $7,000 per month. These people are not signing a new lease every 12 months.

Those are most likely co-ops with annual renewing rental/lease agreements. Or in those cases, it may well be condo's or co-ops whereby the owners sub-let on a long term basis. Rental is rarely preferred by those who can afford more because they are limited in what they can do to the property itself and are subject to periodic increases for all sorts of reasons, whether they have a lease or not. The longer the lease terms the more common for rent increase clauses anyway.

In America apartment rental really goes back to the tenements in NYC. Evolved from those were co-ops and then condo buildings. Perhaps OKC needs more co-ops where the building is an entity and the tenants own shares. That tends to give more stability and control to the renters and somewhat more flexibility. Of course, condos are the best for allowing freedom of the tenant to do things to their own living environment. At any rate, virtually everywhere, renting is done out of economic necessity, not from choice. Of course there are always exceptions.

hopefully they make a website and Facebook like Level, so we get updated on the construction process, and have access to a photo gallery.

I agree, but I just doubt it. Level is being undertaken by a developer who has a very good understanding of his target demographic and its trends. That is a project by and for young professionals. I haven't seen anything yet about The Edge that tells me who the target demographic is. I don't know that it will be a niche development, but more likely appeal to a more general crowd.

Construction value increases on Edge at Midtown apartment project
By Brianna Bailey
Journal Record
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2847
Posted: 06:57 PM Wednesday, December 7, 2011

OKLAHOMA CITY – Developer Gary Brooks has upped the construction value for his 250-unit Edge at Midtown apartment project by about $3 million based on favorable market surveys and said the building is on track to become one of the most environmentally sustainable housing developments in the state.

Brooks originally told the Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority that the Edge at Midtown would cost about $28.2 million, but told the board on Wednesday that he is now prepared to spend up to $3 million more to ensure the quality of the construction, based on the amount of financing available and favorable market conditions.

Plans for the old Mercy site by Legacy at Arts Quarter developers Brooks and Mike Henderson of Cornerstone Development will be aided by a U.S. Department of Housing and Urban Development program that guarantees loans for multifamily housing.

Brooks is on track to have his financing approved by HUD in time to break ground on the development by August, he told the Urban Renewal Authority on Wednesday.

“It’s the type of project that HUD wants, it’s urban and extremely sustainable,” Brooks said.

Financing for the project also will be helped by an estimated $1.5 million in tax increment financing funding.

Brooks hopes to obtain a gold Leadership in Energy and Environmental Design, or LEED rating from the U.S. Green Building Council for the Edge development on the site of the old Mercy Hospital near NW 13th Street and N. Walker Avenue. The Edge project would be the first housing development in the state to obtain a gold LEED rating, he said.

Several other high-profile Oklahoma City developers competed at the Urban Renewal Authority for the rights to the Mercy site this year, including Oklahoma City developer Wiggin Properties; Gardner Tanenbaum Group, led by Dick and Stephen Tanenbaum; Sieber Hotel redeveloper Marva Ellard; and prolific homebuilder Home Creations.

I hope that TIF holds strong!

This is all sounding good... This project will make a huge difference in Midtown.

What area do you all think has more potential,Midtown or DD?MAybe Midtown has a more mixed use potential and DD is more residential,both will have a streetcar line.This is gonna a be fun watching these two areas grow!

Wow, now I'm almost glad this project was chosen. What a great way for Brooks to instill faith in people watching on.