Does anyone know if Okc has any other parcels of land in this area that are close to this size?

Who owns the parcels of land at either 10th or 11th and Hudson?

the block between 10th and 11th, hudson and harvey is up for redevelopment also .. but it is 4 different owners

Find out who owns any parcel using this link. It is map based. Just click 'Launch Map Viewer'.

http://oklahoma.latitudegeo.com/imf/sites/oklahoma/launch.html

the block between 10th and 11th, hudson and harvey is up for redevelopment also .. but it is 4 different owners

There in lies the problem. Even if you get 3 of them the 4th is going to hold out.

Looking at some of those plans that show grassy areas and pools along the street - I just have to scratch my head. Since nothing will get built as shown I prefer to pick the most urban of the proposals - Cornerstone Development (the Edge).

Actually, Wiggin's property probably looks the most urban, if you consider grass suburban. It's got the least chance of having white palm texturing and green awnings with white lettering, given the fact that it looks like it's brick and has no awnings. Also, it's a pretty simple design - no faux "old-time urban" attempt at design. Again, after what happened with Legacy, why should we trust Cornerstone to build what they've presented?

And, if you've ever been inside the Seiber, Marva Ellard looks like the one most likely to build a quality product.

And why should we trust Wiggin?

He has been awarded this site once before and did nothing with it.

Home Creations...

WTF?

My thoughts exactly!

anybody but Home Creations, they are the worst, lol...they are soooo cheap in building their homes...they try and cut corners anyway they can...

Actually, Wiggin's property probably looks the most urban, if you consider grass suburban. It's got the least chance of having white palm texturing and green awnings with white lettering, given the fact that it looks like it's brick and has no awnings. Also, it's a pretty simple design - no faux "old-time urban" attempt at design. Again, after what happened with Legacy, why should we trust Cornerstone to build what they've presented?

And, if you've ever been inside the Seiber, Marva Ellard looks like the one most likely to build a quality product.

it really looks like marva is only going to use the south half of the block .. and have a park/pool area on the north half of the block .. hopefully we can see some site plans soon

Actually, Wiggin's property probably looks the most urban, if you consider grass suburban. It's got the least chance of having white palm texturing and green awnings with white lettering, given the fact that it looks like it's brick and has no awnings. Also, it's a pretty simple design - no faux "old-time urban" attempt at design. Again, after what happened with Legacy, why should we trust Cornerstone to build what they've presented?

And, if you've ever been inside the Seiber, Marva Ellard looks like the one most likely to build a quality product.

Now we are back to faux again. Faux is only bad if the building material is faux, not the architecture. The US Capitol is faux architecture - do you think it is ugly or out of place?

Looking at some of those plans that show grassy areas and pools along the street - I just have to scratch my head. Since nothing will get built as shown I prefer to pick the most urban of the proposals - Cornerstone Development (the Edge).
Marva's plan shows the interior building,which faces into an inner drive and court. All the other buildings go out to surround the perimeter edge.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mercy/mercyhenderson.jpg

• Cornerstone Development (The Edge)
Led by Mike Henderson and Gary Brooks
Proposal: Six stories, includes a mix of retail, with a rooftop terrace and dog park, 500-space garage, featuring 250 rental units with monthly rates between $735 and $1,395.
Cost: $28,219,041
Proposal land purchase: $850,000
Requested tax increment financing assistance: $1.5 million


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mercy/mercyellard.jpg
• Mercy Redevelopers
Led by Marva Ellard
Proposal: Four stories, includes a mix of retail, with a gym, pool, rooftop terrace, underground 300-space garage, featuring 150 rental units.
Cost: $31,310,000
Proposed land purchase: $951,949
Requested tax increment financing assistance: $2.2 million


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mercy/mercyhome.jpg

• Home Creations
Led by Jamal Farzaneh
Proposal: (Two options, both to be built in two phases with the second phase “subject to certain factors”). Option one: 160 residential units, 20 percent rental, 80 percent for sale, with 68,000 square feet set for office or commercial tenants and an underground 220-space garage. Option two: 64 rental and 16 for-sale units with 18,000 square feet set for office space, half rental, half for-sale, 120 parking spaces.
Cost: Option one, first phase $11,434,000, second phase, $7,690,000. Option two, first phase $6,490,000, second phase $5,740,000.
Proposed land purchase: $552,000
Requested tax increment financing assistance: none listed


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mercy/mercywiggin.jpg

• Wiggin Properties
Led by Chuck Wiggin
Proposal: Five-story building with 24,000 square feet for restaurants and retail, a 375-car garage, featuring 200 rental units with monthly rates between $600 and $1,900.
Cost: $42,631,596
Proposed land purchase: $1 million
Requested tax increment financing assistance: $3.5 million


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mercy/mercygth.jpg

• GTH (The Connection)
Led by Richard and Stephen Tanenbaum
Proposal: Four-story building featuring 268 rental units with pool and courtyard.
Cost: $20,408,124
Proposed land purchase: $557,568


Read more: http://newsok.com/5-groups-compete-to-develop-former-mercy-hospital-site-in-midtown-okc/article/3547456#ixzz1GDfoFCVP

I don't like the Home Creations "subject to certain factors" proviso on completing the project. And, at least from a few comments above, the quality of the product is in question? I don't know anything about the company though. There's a lot of disparity in costs and I wonder who has the financing. Will the city take requested TIF into consideration?

Marva's plan shows the interior building,which faces into an inner drive and court. All the other buildings go out to surround the perimeter edge.

Thank you. That makes me feel better.

What is with Wiggin's not having any retail?

I would favor "The Edge", if it weren't for the previous Legacy bait and switch proposal and I don't like the residential hip roof looking designs. I do like placing the maximum amount of units 250 into this area, building right up to the street, adding retail and I like the building to be 6 stories tall (Although I only count 4 stories tall in their rendering, looks like they are already trying to mislead OCURA, haha.)

I don't know what to say about the Home Creations rendering!

I think if the Mercy Re-developers (Marva Ellard) were to add at least 50 more units (making the total a minimum 200, while going up to 5 or 6 stories), build up to the street, we would have a winner.

What retail do you need there besides maybe a dry cleaner? Plaza Court is a stone throw away. I like the Marva style alot.

What is with Wiggin's not having any retail?

"24,000 square feet for restaurants and retail"


I don't know what to say about the Home Creations rendering!

It's unique. And not very attractive. That's what I have to say about it.

Ellard's proposal has underground parking, which I like a lot. Makes for better use of the property overall. Has a reputation for quality work.

Henderson: NO! Took forever with the Legacy development (have people already forgotten multiple missed deadlines??), final product almost nothing like original proposal, existing buildings are ugly EIFS with peaked roofs much more suited to suburban development and hideous 6 foot lettering on green awnings. Having said all that, he'll probably win because he's buddies with OCURA; was referred to as "Mike" in several interviews.

Wiggin: NO! Had his shot which was completely unrealistic; don't want to hear about the economy, it was just a bad proposal. New proposal is square and unattractive.

Tanenbaum: attractive proposal and good track record of downtown properties. I'd put this one number 2 behind Ellard.

Home Creations: strange design and complicated proposal.

"24,000 square feet for restaurants and retail"

I meant GTH, Tanenbaum...no retail proposed.


It's unique. And not very attractive. That's what I have to say about it.

Haha, "unique", good choice of words.

Shouldn't Marva add about 50 more units to make this work?

This is really a beautiful piece of property within easy walking distance of St. Anthony.

It would make sense to add retail along Walker (hopefully in addition to at least 13th) to continue what has been happening just south of there with the restaurants and Plaza Court:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mercy/mercysite1.jpg

I wish we could shake OCURA, but that's not happening. I agree, this is a beautiful and important piece of property. It's the first real multi-family housing that's been constructed in Midtown for a long time and it's presence will be an important part of the Midtown Renaissance. When you have 5 bidders, you have a key piece of property and it's a seller's market. I just hope OCURA doesn't sell the site short. Marva would probably already have her building up if they'd given it to her last time.

There is room for all these developers in Midtown. Look at all this vacant land in the immediate vicinity.

For all the potential of this area, there are still huge gaps everywhere.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mercy/midtown1.jpg

Good map Pete,....I do think that the highlighted areas at 10th and Shartel have projects already. One is another medical office and the other escapes my mind.

Now the parcels at both 10th and 11th along Hudson should be the first to go. I think they are listed by a commercial broker and the asking price would seem reasonable for any of these 5 developers and their current Mercy proposals. I will see if I can pull up the listed prices for a few of these highlighted areas.

I agree Pete but look how many different property owners someone would have to deal with. Pick anyone of those green squares and you will find 3, 4, or 5 different lot owners. This makes land assembly very hard.

you can actually shade the entire area from 10th to 11th between hudson and harvey .. the city has agreed to close park for a development the south west part of that block in the old redcross site .. and NorthCare in the north west corner has agree to sell and move if needed.

also remember that between 10th and 9th west of hudson classen will angle down and cut through the middle of that property

look how many different property owners someone would have to deal with. Pick anyone of those green squares and you will find 3, 4, or 5 different lot owners. This makes land assembly very hard.

That is OCURA's job -- or it should be.

I hate to say this, but all that green along 10th is why I thought 10th would be a better choice for the streetcar line than an 11th/13th couplet.

That is OCURA's job -- or it should be.

None of it is owned by OCURA and as long as the owners keep their property taxes up to date there is nothing OCURA can do about it. That is why the City needs to find a way to 'encourage' people build or sell to someone that will.

I'll say it, the Home Creations proposal is garbage. It looks like a giant Dallas Style suburban house on steroids, and cheap construction at that.

None of it is owned by OCURA and as long as the owners keep their property taxes up to date there is nothing OCURA can do about it.

Not true.

For example since this thread is about the old Mercy Hospital site, OCURA obtained the property because it was vacant and key to the redevelopment of this area. They first did their best to acquire from the existing owners. When that failed they declared it a blight and had it condemned. Then there is a process for determining fair market value to the owners before paying them for it.

This is how urban renewal works and should work in this area. There are dozens of other properties similar to this Mercy site and OCURA should start targeting them one by one.

After a while the area will reach a point where current owners will want to sell and/or develop. This is exactly how the Deep Deuce area got kicked off and look at it now... Almost all the properties in that area are developed or have proposed projects.

I hate to say this, but all that green along 10th is why I thought 10th would be a better choice for the streetcar line than an 11th/13th couplet.

And it is also a reason I like Hudson for the route.

also remember that between 10th and 9th west of hudson classen will angle down and cut through the middle of that property

Forgot about that, remind me what the purpose of that is again?

And it is also a reason I like Hudson for the route.
hudson deadends at the devon building .. so it is not an option


Forgot about that, remind me what the purpose of that is again?

good question ?.. i have no idea but it will be a cool street ... it will go all the way to robinson ..

Marva Ellard is class act all of the way! She has more than proven herself with her vision and commitment for midtown and Oklahoma City. (I shudder to recall how others were lobbying to have the Sieber torn down.) I would stand by and with this woman any day. I think her proposal far outshines the others.

The extension of Classen Drive was proposed several years ago and supposedly financed by a general obligation bond. Have no idea about the current status.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mercy/classenext.jpg

Not true.

For example since this thread is about the old Mercy Hospital site, OCURA obtained the property because it was vacant and key to the redevelopment of this area. They first did their best to acquire from the existing owners. When that failed they declared it a blight and had it condemned. Then there is a process for determining fair market value to the owners before paying them for it.

This is how urban renewal works and should work in this area. There are dozens of other properties similar to this Mercy site and OCURA should start targeting them one by one.

After a while the area will reach a point where current owners will want to sell and/or develop. This is exactly how the Deep Deuce area got kicked off and look at it now... Almost all the properties in that area are developed or have proposed projects.

Well, I meant except for the Mercy site (which btw you did not have shaded green which is why I wasn't addressing it). Most of the vacant lots are just that, vacant. The only way OCURA can acquire this land is if the owners don't pay their taxes. A while back someone looked at all the current land owned by OCURA and most of it was residential land outside of Midtown. I think most of the land in Deep Duece was land owned by OCURA who then sold it to developers. I don't remember any Mercy-style development contest in Deep Duece, but maybe there was.

I wish we could shake OCURA, but that's not happening. I agree, this is a beautiful and important piece of property. It's the first real multi-family housing that's been constructed in Midtown for a long time and it's presence will be an important part of the Midtown Renaissance. When you have 5 bidders, you have a key piece of property and it's a seller's market. I just hope OCURA doesn't sell the site short. Marva would probably already have her building up if they'd given it to her last time.

I agree with that! I like her proposal. As Pete pointed out, the underground parking is an attractive feature.

As for OCURA...you know, if Mick can boot someone off the Board of Adjustment without comment (like he did with David Wanzer); why don't we begin asking Mick why he doesn't shake-up a worn out OCURA? Every single member sits at the pleasure of the Mayor.

The extension of Classen Drive was proposed several years ago and supposedly financed by a general obligation bond. Have no idea about the current status.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mercy/classenext.jpg

This extension has been canceled because the land cost (primarily the dry cleaner location) shot thru the roof. It would have been nice.

Kerry, the law says that you don't have to condemn every parcel as blight... That can be done for an entire area.

And that's exactly what was done around the Mercy site. At the time OCURA went through this process they included a wide area surrounding there and St. Anthony. All a part of a massive plan to develop 10th street as a medical corridor connection St. Anthony and the Health Sciences Center.

And there were several OCURA projects put out for proposals in Deep Deuce: Deep Deuce apartments, The Brownstones and surrounding property and The Hill. Not sure about some of the others that came later. And they acquired all these properties just in the manner I'm describing.

They did the same for what was to be the Galleria (now where Devon is building along with the library, OK Tower, etc.) Many, many other examples -- both good and bad but all along the lines.

Assembling properties and getting them into the hands of people that want to develop /re-develop is their entire reason for existence.

This extension has been canceled because the land cost (primarily the dry cleaner location) shot thru the roof. It would have been nice.

I rest my case. This is the exact same reason why we have demand, willing developers, and vacant lots.

This is exciting to know that there are 5 developers that are ready to jump into Midtown re-development.

Hopefully OCURA will work on brokering land acquisition deals to enable more than one developer to build their project or a similar project that could work elsewhere in Midtown.

This extension has been canceled because the land cost (primarily the dry cleaner location) shot thru the roof. It would have been nice.

what are they going to use the bond money for .. and is the extention canx all the way to robinson

I hate to say this, but all that green along 10th is why I thought 10th would be a better choice for the streetcar line than an 11th/13th couplet.

Considering that the streetcar turns on Dewey, there's as much green on 11th as 10th....more really, if you consider parcel size.

The problem with Hudson is that Broadway is more important than Hudson, and you can't see stops on Hudson from Broadway, nor can you even easily get through in some places.

I will stop mentioning Hudson as my preference over Robinson. I understand the one block couplet idea and agree that Broadway is the most important for the route so it makes Robinson the 2nd most important.

When will the next OCURA meeting be to further decide on a project? sometime in 2012 or later?

From Steve's article:


Bullard said the proposals will be reviewed by a panel consisting of Assistant City Manager Cathy O'Connor, Downtown Oklahoma City Inc. President Jane Jenkins, University of Oklahoma architecture professor Bob Goines, Oklahoma City Planning Director Russell Claus, Greater Oklahoma City Chamber economic development Vice President Robin Roberts-Kreiger, former Urban Renewal executive Dave Jones, St. Anthony Hospital President Joe Hodges, and Heritage Hills Association President Steve Jacobi.
That panel, he said, will advise the Urban Renewal board as to whether they might want to hear all five proposals or just the top three. Those proposals will likely be heard in May.

Read more: http://newsok.com/5-groups-compete-to-develop-former-mercy-hospital-site-in-midtown-okc/article/3547456#ixzz1GEgyCqQN


And I give OCURA credit, they have assembled a good panel to help evaluate. Let's hope they listen to them.

^^ May of what year? 2012, 2013, 2014 ...j/k

That is a quality panel assembled for the initial review.

My daughter attended Villa Teresa for pre-K and Kindergarten. That area has sooo much potential to be really charming. I'd set aside some land for a small inner city park. Tenants need a place to walk their dogs and chat with the neighbors.

I like the bigger Cornerstone project a lot. Dislike the smaller Cornerstone project tremendously. Wiggin's looks alright, Home Creations is interesting... I wonder if they might be interested in some other blocks? That would be very appropriate for some of the blocks further west in Mid-town.


This extension has been canceled because the land cost (primarily the dry cleaner location) shot thru the roof. It would have been nice.

Then..

A) Why won't they use eminent domain?
B) What will they spend the money on instead?

I like the bigger Cornerstone project a lot

That's Mike Henderson who presented something very similar in winning the site for the Legacy, then built what is there today after years of delays.

I like the bigger Cornerstone project a lot. Dislike the smaller Cornerstone project tremendously. Wiggin's looks alright, Home Creations is interesting... I wonder if they might be interested in some other blocks? That would be very appropriate for some of the blocks further west in Mid-town

What do you think of Marva Ellard's proposal Spartan? It includes underground parking...

Marva Ellard's original proposal for the site included a hotel; Anyone have ideas as to what would be a good location in Midtown for a small, independent hotel?

I like the bigger Cornerstone project a lot. Dislike the smaller Cornerstone project tremendously. Wiggin's looks alright, Home Creations is interesting... I wonder if they might be interested in some other blocks? That would be very appropriate for some of the blocks further west in Mid-town.

Did Marva Ellard put a jihad on your family?

Marva Ellard's original proposal for the site included a hotel; Anyone have ideas as to what would be a good location in Midtown for a small, independent hotel?

Osler?

Marva Ellard's original proposal for the site included a hotel; Anyone have ideas as to what would be a good location in Midtown for a small, independent hotel?

If you are looking to build then the vacant lots on 6th between Hudson and Walker would be a good location. It is across the street from the Federal Building and just one block from the OKC National Memorial. It would also be the nearest hotel to St. Anthony's. Those three entities alone should keep a small hotel full. Just make sure you can make ends meet on US government room rates.

Kerry, I only wish I had the means to develop one myself lol, I was just asking hypothetically. You're right though, I suppose any vacant lot would be good...

City, the Osler would be good, but it is still on track to be apartments I believe.

Agreed. It's bad enough we have one Legacy. Anyone who can alter their initial renderings is untrustworthy, to me. I'd like to see Marva's project built this time. I like Wiggin's design, if we're sure he's got money. Design wise, those would be my choices. The other two are pretty meh, to me.

Hmmm, and we have the altered renderings on the Aloft hotel. I know I am in the minority on this one, but I perferred the original renderings.

The extension of Classen Drive was proposed several years ago and supposedly financed by a general obligation bond. Have no idea about the current status.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/mercy/classenext.jpg


This extension has been canceled because the land cost (primarily the dry cleaner location) shot thru the roof. It would have been nice.

If it was a listed project in the GO bond, aren't they required by law to proceed with the stated project??? Unless it was an "unlisted" project, those funds are not supposed to be discretionary but dedicated. If costs went through the roof, the City has eminent domain at its disposal which would keep the cost within reason???

Hmmm, and we have the altered renderings on the Aloft hotel. I know I am in the minority on this one, but I perferred the original renderings.

That's not even remotely the same. The renderings may have changed on the Aloft, but the change has resulted in an equally impressive design as the first ones implied; subject to opinion of course. There is no discussing at all however, that the Legacy renderings were very promising and then we ended up with something dramatically less in design and material.

If it was a listed project in the GO bond, aren't they required by law to proceed with the stated project??? Unless it was an "unlisted" project, those funds are not supposed to be discretionary but dedicated. If costs went through the roof, the City has eminent domain at its disposal which would keep the cost within reason???

my thoughts as well Larry