You write this sentince AND support OCURA? That is a contradiction in terms. Where is the incentive for OCURA to do those things? However, if you want slow construction then mission accomplished. Land has been sitting vacant for 40 years or more.

I didn't say I supported OCURA, but rather, that no matter who was making the decisions, mistakes would almost assuredly be made and people would be unhappy. As far as vacant land goes, much of the area in question wasn't considered prime, or even subprime, real estate until a few years ago. Now that the land is valued, I don't want to see us slap just anything up so we can say we don't have vacant land. In a perfect world, to me, a group like OCURA would look for the best possible option for every piece of land and leave land fallow if a project didn't look like it would be quality construction that would stand the test of time.

Alright .... still waiting for specific cases of Urban Renewal sitting on land for decades.
Since no one is offering up an example, I'll throw one out: the surface parking lot between 420 W Main and City Hall. The parking lot is for mayor, council,city managers, city attorney, and visitors to the planning, public works and water departments.
Any guesses as to why it has never been offered up for development? Is Urban Renewal to blame on this, or is it City Hall? Or are we to believe there is no interest in this site?

I'll tell you what Steve, if you can get me a list of OCURA owned land, and when they acquired it, I'll be happy to look and see how long they have been speculating on land at the expense of Oklahoma City tax payers. What Betts just posted in the exact 100% defnition of what everyone is afraid would happen if the land was help by private citizens, but it is OCURA that is doing it - all tax free.

How about this piece of land: The vacant lot bounded by EK Gaylord, NW3rd, NW4th, and the railroad? How long has OCURA been sitting on this piece of land? LOL - that might not actually be OCURA land anyhow.

OK - I found that OKCURA currently owns 704 parcels of land. I'll bet no one had any idea it was that many.

I'll tell you what Steve, if you can get me a list of OCURA owned land, and when they acquired it, I'll be happy to look and see how long they have been speculating on land at the expense of Oklahoma City tax payers. What Betts just posted in the exact 100% defnition of what everyone is afraid would happen if the land was help by private citizens, but it is OCURA that is doing it - all tax free.

How about this piece of land: The vacant lot bounded by EK Gaylord, NW3rd, NW4th, and the railroad? How long has OCURA been sitting on this piece of land? LOL - that might not actually be OCURA land anyhow.

So you're asking me to provide evidence for the claim you've made? That's a genius way of making an argument. I don't have the time to do that, unfortunately, though I am fairly familiar with the general areas of the URA holdings. Many of the parcels you are seeing in the assessor records are in the JFK neighborhood - small home lots - and many of them are up for sale. And people have been buying. I've written about JFK before and I'll probably write about it again.
As for the lot at E.K. Gaylord and NW 3, that is actually a mangled up, zig-zagged parcel where part of it is owned by URA, the other part is owned by OPUBCO. The chamber currently has the redevelopment contract for the site for construction of a new headquarters.
URA has had ownership of some of that land since the 1970s.

And those of us who live nearby are perfectly happy with it lying fallow, as it's the closest thing to a piece of parkland we've got and is used by many local downtown events.

And those of us who live nearby are perfectly happy with it lying fallow, as it's the closest thing to a piece of parkland we've got and is used by many local downtown events.

Don't worry - Sandridge has you covered.

Steve, I did see where a lot of the holding were residential tracts. Has OCURA been acquiring more land or did they get a bunch of it 50 years ago and it has taken this long to get down to 700 parcels? If they have been acquring more land, how do they pay for it and what is the process for acquiring it (are they out bidding private citizens)?

Why would they? They are the ultimate speculators. They have everything on their side; all the time in the world, no need to make a profit to stay in business, and no taxes to pay. We need to end their monopoly. Sell off everything and lets get this city under construction.

Seems pretty naive that this would result in development or in the right kind of development. On one hand we have everybody upset because SandRidge wanted to do what they wanted with their property, but are willing to eliminate any control over critically placed areas. This board is bi-polar.

Seems pretty naive that this would result in development or in the right kind of development. On one hand we have everybody upset because SandRidge wanted to do what they wanted with their property, but are willing to eliminate any control over critically placed areas. This board is bi-polar.

I guess the difference is between government control and the power of public persuasion. Alas, Sandridge gets to make their plaza and guess who approved it - the City. So much for "right kind of development".

Where does this stand?

Wiggin was in over his head. OCURA came to their senses amazingly and pulled the plug on it, voted to rebid the site entirely (and that was a close call). They're going to take bids either at the Dec meeting or Jan, I forget which. Both Wiggin and Tanenbaum are expected to submit proposals, it may get interesting if others get involved in the RFP as well.

It is going to be apartments whoever builds it. Tanenbaum says he could break ground tomorrow practically. Wiggin says he would need another year of planning.

Wiggin was in over his head. OCURA came to their senses amazingly and pulled the plug on it, voted to rebid the site entirely (and that was a close call). They're going to take bids either at the Dec meeting or Jan, I forget which. Both Wiggin and Tanenbaum are expected to submit proposals, it may get interesting if others get involved in the RFP as well.

It is going to be apartments whoever builds it. Tanenbaum says he could break ground tomorrow practically. Wiggin says he would need another year of planning.

In that case, Go Tenenbaum!

Yeah no kidding. Wiggin has a good track record, but he needs to just walk away from the Mercy hospital site. I get it that he's invested about $200,000 in plans that he's going to lose, but at least he's not going to be taken to the cleaners like his plan for Overholser Green would have done to him.

Is the consensus feeling that Tanenbaum will build a reasonably quality project? We need affordable high density for-rent housing, but not something that degrades badly in a decade. I would rather have an empty lot than blight. I am fearful of having a cheap suburban apartment development that isolates Heritage Hills/Mesta from being downtown.

Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that is what he would build but his new construction is apartments and tilt-up concrete offices and warehouses.

I don't think Tanenbaum would build that though. He was involved in the Classen, Montgomery, Park Harvey, all great downtown projects. I will reserve my judgment until I actually see the plans, but I am skeptical of Wiggin's argument that Tanenbaum's expedited project schedule will result in a crappier project. Contrary to what Wiggin says, just because a project takes less than 5 years to get off doesn't make it crap...

I definitely agree with you that the site has to be a good development. It's a potentially excellent location for a good mixed-use residential project.

Yeah no kidding. Wiggin has a good track record, but he needs to just walk away from the Mercy hospital site. I get it that he's invested about $200,000 in plans that he's going to lose, but at least he's not going to be taken to the cleaners like his plan for Overholser Green would have done to him.

I am not so sure he wouldn't have had some success with OG. The nice part was it included flats. For us empty-nesters the barriers to the current downtown higher priced units is that they are all multiple levels with lots of stairs or elevators. I personally wouldn't buy a multi-level small home in Maywood but would seriously consider a nice single level secure development in mid-town.

Well there probably is a market for very upscale condo units, but it takes months to sell the units and not every project at once can be upscale condo. I'm not saying it can't work, though. But notice how well a diverse range of apartment units have sold out immediately once they were available. You have upscale apartments like the Classen, Legacy, Montgomery and more moderate range apartments like Deep Deuce, Park Harvey, Sycamore, etc..all of which are very well-leased. I heard the concerns with Park Harvey were unsubstantiated, but hopefully they'll be able to figure out the parking eventually and get back up to near full occupancy.

It's just obvious that apartments are the way to go, not condos, if you want to have a successful development that goes exactly as planned, or better. I do think Wiggin would have sold half his condo units and then probably not another. Look at Grant Humphreys, who is having trouble selling the rest of the units in Block 42, which was a much cooler project than OG. It's completely derailed his other development plans.

okay, what is going on with the U-shaped building on the corner by Plaza Court?

The Osler? Nothing. It will be renovated residential apartments by Midtown Redevelopment eventually, but it's in succession after 1212. 1212 will start once Hadden is finished, possibly Jan or Feb. I don't think they'll even start on The Osler until 2012.

I think the Maywood Lofts are doing relatively well. They've got another 5 units closing this month, I've heard, and all the commercial space has sold. We've got one townhouse recently sold in Maywood Park, with a couple others supposedly in the works soon. I believe a couple of the bigger, pricier units in Block 42 sold recently. I expect that all the rest of the development in Maywood Park will help existing sales, especially if the real estate market heats up a bit.

The Maywood Lofts will be a home-run, and I think those are going to attract a lot of buyers who are going to be extremely grateful for where they get to call home. Quality housing well under $200,000 is going to have wide market appeal. It will be very interesting to see that sidewalk interact with those businesses, given the vertical separation. It's weird to see those storefronts on a separated level from the sidewalk, so I wonder what kind of stuff will go in there.

Betts, have heard a timeline for when the commercial space will start to be occupied?

Spartan, what do you mean will-be successful, they've been one of the slowest moving DT projects and have been done over a year. What data are you basing your claim of success on? Opinion? Just curious.

And also Betts, what types of businesses do you think we might see in those spaces?

I'm curious what you're basing that on, metro. The Maywood Lofts sold about half their units before they even completely finished the construction phase and they are so much more in line with what the market can support. Since then sales have remained steady, they may have sold 40 out of the 55 units, which is pretty good. Compare to Canfield's dilemma, although thank goodness he was able to pick things up--he counted too much on the notion that there are so many high-income employees downtown that would want to live downtown, 3-4 years later he should consider himself lucky to have sold around 10 of 157 units, including the potential for presales. Every time a developer builds condos he or she is taking a plunge. The great thing about the Lofts is that they're so versatile that if Bradshaw can't sell the rest, he can easily just lease them if he needs to move the units off the market. I think he'll do well though.

http://bcove.me/keyp9jt5

I don't know why Wiggin and Tanenbaum both can't build their projects.

Yes, only one can build on the Mercy location, but there is a plethora of available land very near to this location.

I'm curious what you're basing that on, metro. The Maywood Lofts sold about half their units before they even completely finished the construction phase and they are so much more in line with what the market can support. Since then sales have remained steady, they may have sold 40 out of the 55 units, which is pretty good. Compare to Canfield's dilemma, although thank goodness he was able to pick things up--he counted too much on the notion that there are so many high-income employees downtown that would want to live downtown, 3-4 years later he should consider himself lucky to have sold around 10 of 157 units, including the potential for presales. Every time a developer builds condos he or she is taking a plunge. The great thing about the Lofts is that they're so versatile that if Bradshaw can't sell the rest, he can easily just lease them if he needs to move the units off the market. I think he'll do well though.

http://bcove.me/keyp9jt5

At the expense of sounding petty, watching that video doesn't imbue one with a sense of excitement -- or much enthusiasm in Bradshaw. I realize he's just a "soft spoken" guy, but he really ought to consider hiring a pitch man for his project.

I'm curious what you're basing that on, metro. The Maywood Lofts sold about half their units before they even completely finished the construction phase and they are so much more in line with what the market can support. Since then sales have remained steady, they may have sold 40 out of the 55 units, which is pretty good. Compare to Canfield's dilemma, although thank goodness he was able to pick things up--he counted too much on the notion that there are so many high-income employees downtown that would want to live downtown, 3-4 years later he should consider himself lucky to have sold around 10 of 157 units, including the potential for presales. Every time a developer builds condos he or she is taking a plunge. The great thing about the Lofts is that they're so versatile that if Bradshaw can't sell the rest, he can easily just lease them if he needs to move the units off the market. I think he'll do well though.

http://bcove.me/keyp9jt5

Sounds like I'm basing it off the same thing as you, gut feeling and no hard data. I can say I was in charge of the Downtown Living Tour 2 years ago for Urban Neighbors and worked in partner with Kim Searls of DOKC (there at that time). Our volunteer HQ base for the DT Tour was based out of the Lofts. I've also had several meetings in their clubhouse. So, I don't have any hard numbers, but I DO HAVE some first hand experience with the project. What Bradshaw doesn't say in Lackmeyer's video is if "sold" means deposit or closed at a title company. I do know that they had to have "x" number of deposits, and I know some people who had those deposits, and many of them pulled out and lost their deposit. As soonerguru was saying, watching Bradshaw in the video doesn't leave me with feeling confident about the project. Have you been in there? It is gives a since of emptiness to the point where it is almost eery. I hope it fillls soon, as I feel it is a good project, slightly overpriced, but great location and future area potential. I wouldn't mind living there myself if I could convince my wife it is a good place to raise a child. haha

I believe Maywood Lofts still have some closings this year. I don't know about 40, but I would guess they're at or close to 35 sold. I haven't ever heard them count deposits since the building was opened up for occupancy.

Has OCURA taken new bids for this site yet? Any idea as to when a decision will be made if they have?

Spartan, watch what you say about Grant. Why do you go after someone who is smarter and richer then you.

Huh?? The hell??

If you're referring to Grant Humphreys, you're sorely mistaken about me "going after" someone, and anything I might say is actually going really easy on his situation compared to what others have said.

I too was confused on how you were "going after" Humphreys.

Uh, me too!
Not sure what is going on here with "who is going after who?".

But to move this along. With all of the momentum ongoing in Deep Deuce. When will we see a significant project for Midtown?

I definitely thought by now we would have an announcement for a Major Midtown development project. Mercy site is Prime for a this type of development, a multi-purpose, residential, commercial development, something around 8 to 10 stories tall.

How about just developing the building across from Stella on Walker. I know it's a Midtown Renaissance project, but that thing would rent out, and maybe sell out, immediately. Why do they move so slowly?

I think they're so leveraged that they have to finish one project before they can move on to the next, right now it's Hadden and Packard..at least Hadden for sure has to be finished and move-in ready before they can start 1212.

Uh, me too!
Not sure what is going on here with "who is going after who?".

But to move this along. With all of the momentum ongoing in Deep Deuce. When will we see a significant project for Midtown?

I definitely thought by now we would have an announcement for a Major Midtown development project. Mercy site is Prime for a this type of development, a multi-purpose, residential, commercial development, something around 8 to 10 stories tall.

anything over 3 to 4 stories is not allowed for that site

I think they're so leveraged that they have to finish one project before they can move on to the next, right now it's Hadden and Packard..at least Hadden for sure has to be finished and move-in ready before they can start 1212.

On Midtown Renaissance's website, it says Hadden Hall is now leasing and provides a pdf of the floor plan that shows 6 units.

Again, does anyone know if the Mercy site itself has taken new bids?

anything over 3 to 4 stories is not allowed for that site
3 to stories is plenty. I just dont want some stick built, low quality complex there. Deep Duece certainly has got a lot of attention lately with several housing projects announced but Midtown is where I would want to live. It has the best potential to be a live work play, urban neighborhood. It has better retail oppurtunities than Deep Duece.

3 to stories is plenty. I just dont want some stick built, low quality complex there. Deep Duece certainly has got a lot of attention lately with several housing projects announced but Midtown is where I would want to live. It has the best potential to be a live work play, urban neighborhood. It has better retail oppurtunities than Deep Duece.

You've just stated a perfect example of why we should be very careful about destroying our older buildings. You can't build character; it has to develop.

On Midtown Renaissance's website, it says Hadden Hall is now leasing and provides a pdf of the floor plan that shows 6 units.

Again, does anyone know if the Mercy site itself has taken new bids?

Are there already tenants on the top floor while they finish the bottom? I've seen cars parked there at night recently, but they are clearly still working on the site.

That seems plausible since it would be easier to have tenants living on the top floor first while still working on the bottom than vice versa.

I actually stopped and looked closer at the site today (I live three blocks away) and there are already tenants living on the top floor. There is still a decent amount of work left, but the place is really well done. It's going to be a great place when finished.

Awesome! Thanks for that update.

I think they're so leveraged that they have to finish one project before they can move on to the next, right now it's Hadden and Packard..at least Hadden for sure has to be finished and move-in ready before they can start 1212.

Cline is after Hadden Hall, which on a side note is wrapping up.

From OKC BIZ:


OCURA Executive Director Joe Van Bullard said the proposals will be reviewed by a committee of OCURA staff and city officials, and likely will be brought before the commissioners at the April regular board meeting.

The commissioners then will determine the projects to be considered for presentations. Bullard said presentations from some or all of those selected will probably be at the May OCURA meeting.

Those who responded include real estate developer Richard Tanenbaum, real estate developer Marva Ellard, the owners of Moore-based homebuilder Home Creations, Wiggin, and a group led by real estate developer Gary Brooks.

MORE: http://www.facebook.com/notes/okcbiz/five-respond-to-rfp-for-midtown-site/10150098259055998

Marva?! I have a desire for her to win the development because she was shorted those years ago against Wiggin; her proposal was rock-solid IMO. I'm excited to see what she's bringing to the table this time.

That is insane. April? They first found out Tanenbaum's interest in the redevelopment back in November. That's 6 months. 6 months of operating on OCURA's schedule, and that's just to get them to hear new proposals. Holy crap.

They should have had a new RFP process lined up for immediately after Wiggin would not meet his deadline. They knew that was coming, too. And we're talking about a deadline that they already granted an insanely generous extension to.

If we were still relying on OCURA time to redevelop downtown, there would be nothing going on anywhere. This board is possibly the most inefficient, slow-moving governmental organization in all of Oklahoma.

5 groups compete to develop former Mercy Hospital site in MidTown OKC
The Oklahoma City Urban Renewal Authority received five bids Wednesday to develop housing on the former MidTown home of Mercy Hospital.

BY STEVE LACKMEYER slackmeyer@opubco.com Oklahoman Leave a comment
Published: March 10, 2011


If the economy is still seen by some as stalling downtown development, it apparently hasn't stemmed interest in residential development of the former MidTown home of Mercy Hospital.



Read more: http://newsok.com/5-groups-compete-to-develop-former-mercy-hospital-site-in-midtown-okc/article/3547456#ixzz1GCPQ53Vu

just from the specs I think the Cornerstone Development is the best .. i don't trust wiggin to get his project off the ground .. and Tanenbaum not having any retail should be a non starter .. Marva Ellard project looks interesting but i need to see what her sight plan looks like

I second the cornerstone development.

Cornerstone looks massive to me. I don't trust Henderson to deliver what he proposes. The first Legacy renderings were attractive, but we got a value engineered replacement. I think Wiggin has had his chance.

They should give it to Marva and rest assured that a quality product will get delivered in the end.

Cornerstone looks massive to me. I don't trust Henderson to deliver what he proposes. The first Legacy renderings were attractive, but we got a value engineered replacement.

Agreed. It's bad enough we have one Legacy. Anyone who can alter their initial renderings is untrustworthy, to me. I'd like to see Marva's project built this time. I like Wiggin's design, if we're sure he's got money. Design wise, those would be my choices. The other two are pretty meh, to me.

I find it sad that there are 5 groups trying to get this land and 4 of them are going to lose. There are dozens and dozens of vacant lots in this area. The problem is they are all small and owned by different people. This makes land assembly very difficult and expensive. The result is that we have high demand and willing developers, but yet are stuck with dozens of grassy lots. The City has to find a way to "encourage" vacant land holders to either develop their land or sell it to people who will.

Go Marva

I have to say, if the Oversight Board and City Council ratify our streetcar route this month, the corner of 13th and Dewey will probably be a major stop location.

I hope that there is enough flexibility in OCURA's mechanisms to allow the developers the option to develop a pedestrian path directly to wherever a stop might be.

Certainly, the densities proposed will most like help our system with ridership. It is exciting.

I find it sad that there are 5 groups trying to get this land and 4 of them are going to lose. There are dozens and dozens of vacant lots in this area. The problem is they are all small and owned by different people. This makes land assembly very difficult and expensive. The result is that we have high demand and willing developers, but yet are stuck with dozens of grassy lots. The City has to find a way to "encourage" vacant land holders to either develop their land or sell it to people who will.

While I agree with you, with this development we've got three new apartment complexes that will be under construction the next few years. I also think it would be nice to make sure the demand is there for this much rental housing downtown. As renters age, if they enjoy the downtown life, they may be interested in for sale housing downtown. If we overbuild apartments, which has certainly happened in other markets, we may drive down prices, which won't favor further developments. If the demand is high enough, people will sell those grassy lots.

If the demand is high enough, people will sell those grassy lots.

That is one of the big problems. Pick any vacant block and you will find 2 or 3 different lot owners. It makes land assembly almost impossible because at least one of those people is going to hold out for more money than their land is worth in the absence of a development proposal. If developers are forced to pay the higher price then that translates to higher rents or purchase cost, which in turn makes demand go down. If we want affordable housing downtown then we have to solve the problem that is causing the price to go up. I don't know what the answer is but I would like to see the City address the problem.

Again, Henderson flashes some nice looking plans. Those look pretty similar to the original Legacy plans. We saw how that project turned out.

Looking at some of those plans that show grassy areas and pools along the street - I just have to scratch my head. Since nothing will get built as shown I prefer to pick the most urban of the proposals - Cornerstone Development (the Edge).

Does anyone know if Okc has any other parcels of land in this area that are close to this size?

Who owns the parcels of land at either 10th or 11th and Hudson?