This would be excellent for OKC! As long as they don't call it the Beer District.

They're already doing this as much as reasonably feasible given the street layout and BNSF viaduct in OKC. That rendering of the KCMO proposal doesn't really show I-70 running between the arena and baseball field - not unlike the BNSF viaduct. The other development you mention could replace Paycom and the parking lots to the west. The future NBA arena and MLS - capable stadium (finger crossed on this) would only be a few blocks apart with things like the Omni and Boardwalk (more crossed fingers) between them.

They're already doing this as much as reasonably feasible given the street layout and BNSF viaduct in OKC. That rendering of the KCMO proposal doesn't really show I-70 running between the arena and baseball field - not unlike the BNSF viaduct. The other development you mention could replace Paycom and the parking lots to the west. The future NBA arena and MLS - capable stadium (finger crossed on this) would only be a few blocks apart with things like the Omni and Boardwalk (more crossed fingers) between them.

The plan was/is to cap I-70 between the arena and ballpark.

I do think Tulsa would be a better fit for an NHL team than OKC. Not because of how they support the Oilers or how we didn't support the Barons,but because it's a growing metro of 1 million people with no professional franchises that generally loves athletics and heavily supports community events enmasse. It also has a bunch of decent sized companies that currently aren't tied up in other professional sports sponsorships. It's essentially the same reason everyone thought the NBA could work here when we got our trial run with the hornets.

I don't think OKC is ready for a professional sports franchise with a season that overlaps with the NBA. Corporate sponsorships alone would be an issue but between NBA and College football fans/sponsors are already spread thin. Just not worth it at this stage of the game.

Agree, Tulsa would be a better fit for the NHL than OKC (B/C they have no major professional sports).

NHL expansion in 1996 OKC's MSA population stood between 1990 (971,042) and 2000 (1,095,421);
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Tulsa's MSA population is similar 2010 (937,478) and 2020 (1,015,331)

Tulsa MSA now (2023) boasts 1,044,757.

Then OKC Mayor Ron Norick & Clay Bennett were told by the NHL on Thursday to get a press conference ready for the following Monday to announce that OKC received an NHL expansion franchise. Sometime between that Friday and Saturday, Columbus, OH thru Nation-Wide Insurance sponsorship, Ohio's capital city secured that final franchise beating out Oklahoma City and Houston.

Columbus was a larger MSA population than OKC and better quality-or-life...

Remember, OKC had approved MAPS funding for an $89.2 million NHL arena that the NHL felt couldn't be built in 2002 for that price--NHL wanted bells and whistles. City leaders wanted to use the 14.000-seat Myriad's Great Arena as a temporary home until the new 18,000 seat DT arena could be built for NHL hockey.

Tulsa's BOK Center (arena) meets NHL specifications with 17,096 seats ready to welcome the NHL. Believe me, Tulsa would rally behind an NHL franchise; there's no doubt IMO that OKC and TUL markets could support the NBA and NHL respectively. Combined TV market households for OKC-TUL estimated around 1.35 million.

You have Tulsans who support the NBA Thunder; likewise, you would have the same support for NHL in Tulsa by Oklahoma City NHL fans.

.

BOK Center was built as a slightly nicer Ford Center/Paycom Center in 2008. I would find it hard for the NHL to move to Tulsa to what would be a 20 year old fairly basic arena, when OKC is going to have a brand new billion dollar arena down the turnpike.

BOK Center was built as a slightly nicer Ford Center/Paycom Center in 2008. I would find it hard for the NHL to move to Tulsa to what would be a 20 year old fairly basic arena, when OKC is going to have a brand new billion dollar arena down the turnpike.

From a metro population to number of pro sports teams ratio, it would be an easier decision to go to Tulsa than OKC, even with a better arena in OKC.

Plus either city it probably only happens if a local ownership group wanted to bring one in, in OKC most of the potential owners are probably already tied into the Thunder, and bringing in another team risks both being viable.

BOK Center was built as a slightly nicer Ford Center/Paycom Center in 2008. I would find it hard for the NHL to move to Tulsa to what would be a 20 year old fairly basic arena, when OKC is going to have a brand new billion dollar arena down the turnpike.

BOK at least seems to have a much larger footprint than Paycom and doesn't suffer from some of the logistical issues that Paycom does (loading docks for example). Definitely feels quite a bit larger when walking around the concourses. It could likely be renovated and brought up to the level of some of the newer arenas being built today (though obviously not the more elaborate ones). It seems newer than Paycom even now though doesn’t have as nice of interior finishes in some cases.

From a metro population to number of pro sports teams ratio, it would be an easier decision to go to Tulsa than OKC, even with a better arena in OKC.

Plus either city it probably only happens if a local ownership group wanted to bring one in, in OKC most of the potential owners are probably already tied into the Thunder, and bringing in another team risks both being viable.

Sure BOK Center will need a few tweaks and renovations--somewhere in the $50 - $75 million range. Much like the PNC Center in Raleigh, N. C. it has the space for a second advertising ring above the luxury suites.


https://hot-town-images.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/kotv/production/2008/August/30/bok-center-opening-to-public.1220104382000-0.jpeg

Tulsa (IMO) is ready for an NHL franchise.

As a die-hard OKC and Thunder supporter, I would become a die-hard fan of an NHL team in Tulsa. I'm not completely convinced it's the best financial decision, but as a fan and an Okie I love the idea of Tulsa getting an NHL team and the whole state rallying around it like they have for the Thunder. To me that's a great way for the state to be best utilizing all of its assets to raise the profile of the state as a whole. I've never been a hockey fan and have never been interested, but if Tulsa got a team I'd be all swagged up and would plan on many trips to the BOK to see games. That would be amazing.

NHL hockey is amazing in person. So much different than on TV and way better than any hockey we've had in OKC. I'd don't follow it or anything (couldn't even tell you who's in the playoffs right now), but I'd definitely go to Tulsa for a game or two a year if it was there. Beyond that, I'll admit that I would probably just be a fair weather fan. Honestly, I'd probably be a fair weather fan if the NHL was in OKC, too, since the NBA is here. I certainly wouldn't have season tickets to both. Nobody's got time for that, lol.

NHL hockey is amazing in person. So much different than on TV and way better than any hockey we've had in OKC. I'd don't follow it or anything (couldn't even tell you who's in the playoffs right now), but I'd definitely go to Tulsa for a game or two a year if it was there. Beyond that, I'll admit that I would probably just be a fair weather fan. Honestly, I'd probably be a fair weather fan if the NHL was in OKC, too, since the NBA is here. I certainly wouldn't have season tickets to both. Nobody's got time for that, lol.
I'm a HUGE Avalanche fan. We used to go to Denver for home games, Dallas when they played the stars and occasionally St. Louis when they played the Blues. We haven't been lately because everything has gone up and we just don't have the spare money anymore . The "fair weather" comment I'm afraid represents a ton of potential hockey game attendees. And that won't fly with the NHL.

I'm a HUGE Avalanche fan. We used to go to Denver for home games, Dallas when they played the stars and occasionally St. Louis when they played the Blues. We haven't been lately because everything has gone up and we just don't have the spare money anymore . The "fair weather" comment I'm afraid represents a ton of potential hockey game attendees. And that won't fly with the NHL.

that certainly is the problem in the NHL right now. it's a hot product that has just gone up in price. I used to go to 5-6 Star games a year, because you could easily find pre-2020, for $40-60 in the upper deck. and at AA Center, those are still good seats with a good view. but now, you can't find a single ticket to a game for less than $125. my usual splurge tickets back in the day that were $85, are now $215... I just can't afford to go to more than 1 or 2 games a year now.

Sure BOK Center will need a few tweaks and renovations--somewhere in the $50 - $75 million range. Much like the PNC Center in Raleigh, N. C. it has the space for a second advertising ring above the luxury suites.

https://hot-town-images.s3.us-east-1.amazonaws.com/kotv/production/2008/August/30/bok-center-opening-to-public.1220104382000-0.jpeg

Tulsa (IMO) is ready for an NHL franchise.

Im not so sure about that. OKC was 1.2 million metro when the Thunder came and it had a 'trial run' with the New Orleans Oklahoma City Hornets to get noticed. I think Tulsa becomes viable once they too reach the 1.2 million mark in probably 10 years.

Not saying the state wouldn't support it, but the city has to support it. More than 65% of OKC metro support Thunder games, probably would be higher but there's obvious interest regionally with Tulsa itself lending 10%. OKC likely could lend the same or more to a Tulsa team, being a bigger city. But you can't rely on that as I think OK's support of sports gets diluted.

I don't think we should just be saying, Tulsa gets a team, just so Oklahoma can have two major league teams. When Tulsa gets the ownership group and IMO about 200K more people then they will be ready. And that's assuming OKC doesn't have any hockey at all.

For the record the NHL is absolutely not coming to Tulsa, you are absolutely delusional if you think it is a realistic chance. I would love to have a closer option, it just is not viable in the slightest. OKC has a significantly better chance, and even that is highly unlikely.

Oklahoma City is a marginally sized market and is still considerably bigger than the Tulsa market. Not only is its media market larger, it shows a much larger average and median income than Tulsa. Since OKC is marginal for a professional market, Tulsa is way down the list. There are many markets that would get teams before Tulsa. OKC wouldn't likely get a second pro team either, but it at least has proved it can fight above its weight class. It took a unique set of circumstances for OKC to get the Thunder. That happening for Tulsa is very, very remote.

TULSA DMA is number 58 Designated Market Area in United States, as ranked by Nielsen as of 2024, TV Household population of 531,230 and an average income $42,414 and a median income $41,306.

OKLAHOMA CITY DMA is number 41 Designated Market Area in United States, as ranked by Nielsen as of 2024, TV Household population of 722,140 and an average income $48,989 and a median income $50,743.

For the record the NHL is absolutely not coming to Tulsa, you are absolutely delusional if you think it is a realistic chance. I would love to have a closer option, it just is not viable in the slightest. OKC has a significantly better chance, and even that is highly unlikely.

I don't think Tulsa is getting a team either, but Tulsa does have a very long track record of supporting hockey. The Oilers this season averaged over 7,000 in attendance a game and have a long history.

The Tulsa Oilers are older than the Edmonton Oilers, by a lot, dating to 1929, There have been gaps when there was no team, but overall this current season is the current version of the Oilers 32nd season and overall the teams 72nd season.

Me personally, I think NFL should be OKC's third team - after OKC reaches 2 million metro and gets MLS within a few years. That's probably the limit for OKC and major professional sports, esp if the Pro Basketball Inc/Clay Bennett is the owner of the other league's team(s).

NFL would work in OKC due to its football craze and additional population (in my metric, getting 500K more people). NFL does not coincide with NBA season much and with NFL games on Sundays with the occasional Monday and Thursday, it would not interfere with OU and OSU. The missing pieces are the stadium, ownership group, and available team/expansion. OKC could possibly pursue UFL/XFL but even that should be a few years out.

I agree that Tulsa isn't on the radar, but I still stand by it being viable for NHL once they reach more than 1.2 million, assuming there's no hockey in OKC, and there's an Tulsa ownership group. Probably 10-15 years out.

If these occur, that'd probably be the extent for major league sports in Oklahoma for the forseeable future; OKC (with 2 million): NBA, MLS, NFL. TUL (with 1.2+ million): NHL.

I don't think MLS is a real opportunity for a long time. There aren't many recent expansion franchises that haven't been born out of successful USL/NASL markets. The stadium for Energy FC is coming, but the franchise sitting dormant until it opens sets any MLS expansion hopes in OKC back several years. There was a time not long ago that OKC was commonly listed on medium-term expansion candidates. The failure of two lower division pro teams in OKC has knocked us off most lists altogether.

I just think once OKC has the stadium and the team back playing, that it would be fast tracked - kind of like a 'darling child' of sports if you will, in the way that OKC is now often mentioned in MOST league expansion/relocation (not that any of that is true or not, but OKC is mentioned every time). And OKC does have the population, demographic, and ownership group (like them or not) to support it. And MLS wouldn't interfere with the NBA or the colleges.

The commitment the city is making to the stadium (and arena) along with the probability of Legends Tower - it could be a great opportunity for the league to be part of that momentum.

Why is a possible OKC franchise in the NWLS not being explored/discussed for the new stadium?

Why is a possible OKC franchise in the NWLS not being explored/discussed for the new stadium?

I'm guessing you mean NWSL-National Women's Soccer League?

A quick look at the league makes me think there is zero way it makes sense for either OKC or the league. At 14 teams, it seems the NWSL has 15-20 cities that are already committed to the highest level of soccer in the US, MLS, and would all provide a better opportunity for success. As much as I hate to say it, OKC has not shown it has more than a modest interest in soccer. With the possible exception of softball, OKC doesn't appear to be a strong women's sports town, either.

It would seem to me that getting the USL team back in operation is the best, and fastest, occupant of any portion of the new stadium. I know there are some here who think the Funk family are bad sports operators in OKC, and they are killing soccer here in town, just like they killed hockey, I am constantly left with a nagging question---

If they are so bad and OKC is such a great market, then where are the saviors?

If they are so bad and OKC is such a great market, then where are the saviors?

As someone who would like to see professional soccer work in OKC, I am pessimistic. I think locals overrate OKC as a soccer market, and Prodigal are not good at running high-level minor league franchises. I say that because I believe, if they were serious owners, they would have been ahead of the USL's field dimension requirements and found a place for the team to play in the interim instead of just pulling the plug for five years until a new stadium is built.

As for saviors, I don't know that there are any. At one point I would have said people behind Sold Out Strategies because I always got the impression that they are "soccer people" (they do run an entire women's league). However, they also couldn't keep the investment group together for the NASL team that failed.

18803

This is a great discussion on PayCom Center. I had no idea soccer was scheduled to be played there. Very exciting.

this is a great discussion on paycom center. I had no idea soccer was scheduled to be played there. Very exciting.

lol

This is a great discussion on PayCom Center. I had no idea soccer was scheduled to be played there. Very exciting.

I think OKC Talk moderators do the best job on the internet balancing freedom and focus.

I think OKC Talk moderators do the best job on the internet balancing freedom and focus.
Focus. Now there’s a concept. 😂

While I may not agree with the financing, I’m officially a convert on opinion we need a new arena. Attending Zach Bryan last night after not being in almost a decade (Fleetwood Mac - 2015, pre interior reno?) while awesome show, the sheer uncomfortable environment due to size took away so much. Partly even being a tall, fit guy, I couldn’t keep my body out of anyone’s way even sitting in my own chair. Going to other venues since and by comparison, we definitely need this new arena. Just my opinion as a non NBA fan that rarely attends now seeing the need.

While I may not agree with the financing, I’m officially a convert on opinion we need a new arena. Attending Zach Bryan last night after not being in almost a decade (Fleetwood Mac - 2015, pre interior reno?) while awesome show, the sheer uncomfortable environment due to size took away so much. Partly even being a tall, fit guy, I couldn’t keep my body out of anyone’s way even sitting in my own chair. Going to other venues since and by comparison, we definitely need this new arena. Just my opinion as a non NBA fan that rarely attends now seeing the need.

Yeah you can definitely argue on how much should be spent or how the funding is acquired but anyone who legitimately thinks we don’t need one doesn’t go to Paycom often and hasn’t been to comparable venues. Even BOK is generally more comfortable in terms of seat size/spacing.

Yeah you can definitely argue on how much should be spent or how the funding is acquired but anyone who legitimately thinks we don’t need one doesn’t go to Paycom often and hasn’t been to comparable venues. Even BOK is generally more comfortable in terms of seat size/spacing.

Truth.

Yeah you can definitely argue on how much should be spent or how the funding is acquired but anyone who legitimately thinks we don’t need one doesn’t go to Paycom often and hasn’t been to comparable venues. Even BOK is generally more comfortable in terms of seat size/spacing.

My wife and I went to a game earlier this year after the arena vote passed (which I was all for and she questioned) and when we left, she said, "ok, I get why we need a new arena now..." It's the first time in our marriage I was told in a round about way I was right... It was awesome...

My wife and I went to a game earlier this year after the arena vote passed (which I was all for and she questioned) and when we left, she said, "ok, I get why we need a new arena now..." It's the first time in our marriage I was told in a round about way I was right... It was awesome...

Hahaha. That’s great. Gotta take the Ws win you can lol.

Hahaha. That’s great. Gotta take the Ws win you can lol.
Really. I'm not sure my wife has ever told me that I was right.

Nothing new here, but I just wanted to say props to the people running the arena. Next week they have the Thunder on 11/13, Jelly Roll on 11/14, Thunder on 11/15 and Martin Lawrence on 11/16. Then Los Tigres on 12/1, Justin Timberlake on 12/2, Thunder on 12/3 and Lindsey Stirling on 12/4. Good turnover from Thunder to concerts and back so we can enjoy that and don't have to wait for the new arena to be built.

I don't think it's a bad little arena. It looks nice to me.

But I can only compare it to the Target Center and that place is a dump.

I voted against getting a new arena because the arena is nice enough and does not need a new arena but voters thought otherwise

I voted against getting a new arena because the arena is nice enough and does not need a new arena but voters thought otherwise

We had to do it. Our hands were tied.

Team would have left.

We had to do it. Our hands were tied.

Team would have left.

You are right

I voted against getting a new arena because the arena is nice enough and does not need a new arena but voters thought otherwise

...and most of us probably won't experience anything that different in the newer arena. It will look nicer, but other than wider concourses, more toilets, and maybe a bigger seat, the experience for the common fan will be about the same to Thunder games now?

I disagree, OKC is being proactive for once. No need to keep spending millions renovating, when in the next 10 years it will be outdated. Why not build a state-of-the-art facility that will last another 30+ years?

...and most of us probably won't experience anything that different in the newer arena. It will look nicer, but other than wider concourses, more toilets, and maybe a bigger seat, the experience for the common fan will be about the same to Thunder games now?

It will be a better experience for the fan with more amenities. If you don't do anything but go straight to your seats, and not do anything but watch the game, you will still have a better arena ambiance. But, if you don't partake of the outside of the game amenities, it probably won't be a big deal. But if that's the case, you would probably just be okay with going to any old gym and watching a game, right.

But the improvements aren't just for Thunder games. All entertainment options will improve, and all entertainment experiences will be improved.

I disagree, OKC is being proactive for once. No need to keep spending millions renovating, when in the next 10 years it will be outdated. Why not build a state-of-the-art facility that will last another 30+ years?

There will always be a need to renovate with mini projects always happening and larger renovations every 10 to 15 years, but the 'bones' and amount of space to work with will increase.

...and most of us probably won't experience anything that different in the newer arena. It will look nicer, but other than wider concourses, more toilets, and maybe a bigger seat, the experience for the common fan will be about the same to Thunder games now?

that's mostly correct. this deal is primarily about maximizing the number of suites, boxes, and premium spaces so that the team can make more money during concerts and other non-Thunder events.

I have mixed feelings about the new building because I think the current one is still in great shape. Demolishing it seems like a huge waste. However, since the new arena is approved, I hope the old space can be put to good use. How about turning it into an aquarium? LOL.

that's mostly correct. this deal is primarily about maximizing the number of suites, boxes, and premium spaces so that the team can make more money during concerts and other non-Thunder events.

it also was very much about loading docks and staging .. as the current building is lacking in space ..

I think Taylor Swift's current tour involves almost 100 semi trailers worth of gear.

Linkin Park's tour will be announcing a Tulsa date at the BOK. Chalk another show going to Tulsa because that stage will be massive.

Linkin Park's tour will be announcing a Tulsa date at the BOK. Chalk another show going to Tulsa because that stage will be massive.

Yes. Some shows go to Tulsa and some come to OKC as they always have.

Yes. Some shows go to Tulsa and some come to OKC as they always have.

Bigger stage shows go to Tulsa. More involved sets, go to Tulsa.

That's a huge problem that the new arena will rectify.

I remember tons of posters spreading a rumor that Paycom couldn’t host back 2 back concerts due to this unsolvable loading dock issue…..
That turned out to be 100% false too

I remember tons of posters spreading a rumor that Paycom couldn’t host back 2 back concerts due to this unsolvable loading dock issue…..
That turned out to be 100% false too

If they said that they were oversimplifying the argument just like your oversimplifying your argument.

The truth is it depends on the situation. The acts will deal with some less than ideal situations. It is a competition with all the other venues out there so how competitive do we want to be?

it also was very much about loading docks and staging .. as the current building is lacking in space ..

Maybe the new arena can have a space-efficient elevator and turntable for the loading docks like the Barclays Center.

Maybe the new arena can have a space-efficient elevator and turntable for the loading docks like the Barclays Center.

New arena will be state of art for logistics as well as amenities. Chesapeake was built for value. New arena will be built for optimum use and ambiance. Chesapeake did its job... it got us the Thunder and national spotlights. Now we need to shine that spotlight on how great we are, not how cheap we are.

Audit finds City overpaid Paycom & Cox Center operator (ASM) $11.8 million since 2018:

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/oklahoma-city/2024/11/17/paycom-center-okc-audit-overfunded-millions/76135597007/

Not a great look.

Audit finds City overpaid Paycom & Cox Center operator (ASM) $11.8 million since 2018:

https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/local/oklahoma-city/2024/11/17/paycom-center-okc-audit-overfunded-millions/76135597007/

Appeared in this morning edition (Jessie Christopher Smith's article); now is there anyway Oklahoma City can get reimbursed for the overfunded $11.8 million in total since the 2018 fiscal year, according to the audit.

Who's responsible for the overfund.

All the talk about the Thunder and the new arena and few realize that on top of everything else, taxpayers heavily subsidize Paycom and you can bet that will even be more the case with the new facility.

Somehow, that information is always left out of the conversation, and "the City owns it" is presented as a plus when it's just another huge expense; around $10 million every year just to ASM (there are other expenses as well). The City does a good job of burying the related costs in its budget; they're never shown as a distinct line item.

In reading the story, I take it to say the money is still around, but in different account from what the Auditors have determined it should be. The previous City staff person who was in charge of interaction and oversight with this partner retired in early 2023, and the current person has been in the role for about 18 months. She has spent that time going through all the operations and getting a handle on it. City Manager Craig Freeman said it would work out and didn't seem too stressed about it.

I'm going to suggest it is a difference of interpretations in a business agreement that has solid protections for the City.

^

The money is not just in a separate account. The City paid it to ASM. The article doesn't say how or if that money will be returned. Sounds like a good chunk of it was spent by ASM to market their events.

This is not a nothing. It's nearly $12 million in taxpayer funds that was only caught by an auditor after 6 years of overpayment. Even if it was a series of honest mistakes by ASM (and that remains to be seen), it's a huge fail of oversight from the City.


It's a very weird thing about OKC. Nobody trusts the federal government and most believe the entire thing should be blown up. The state government is a national joke. The county government is universally regarded as deeply corrupt and inept. But at the City level, these are all great people (I talked to X once at a Chamber meeting and he/she was very nice!) and we should just impose billions in extra taxes, allow them to allocate those billions in private meetings, and just trust everyone. It's borderline crazy.

You know the huge, multi-year stink about Swadley's at the state level? That was for a total of $4.7 million in alleged over billing.

It would be nice if the article weren't behind a pay wall so everyone could see the claims and start to learn what's going on. I know it happens but l find it hard to believe millions of dollars are just being disbursed with no on-the-spot oversight and approval.

https://c.tenor.com/j5YcO9slE7YAAAAd/tenor.gif