View Full Version : Paycom Center (formerly Chesapeake Arena)
HOT ROD 09-01-2022, 04:23 PM OKC may have the smallest or second smallest/cheapest arena but we do not have the worst. I know this is PR from Holt to get the arena replaced, but he should be more factual and just inform voters we need to build a world class arena in a larger building. Make the master plan on the Cox site and Im sure it will sell, and be less expensive overall (esp if parts of the lands are parcel off to developers.
I really dislike how OKC officials denegrade our venues every time it's time to MAPS or replace something. We all know how Ford Center was built and it turned out wonderful from the fan experience and DID meet and exceed NBA standards for a very long time. Just tell the truth, be transparent, and develop/build world class the first time THIS TIME.
chssooner 09-01-2022, 05:52 PM OKC may have the smallest or second smallest/cheapest arena but we do not have the worst. I know this is PR from Holt to get the arena replaced, but he should be more factual and just inform voters we need to build a world class arena in a larger building. Make the master plan on the Cox site and Im sure it will sell, and be less expensive overall (esp if parts of the lands are parcel off to developers.
I really dislike how OKC officials denegrade our venues every time it's time to MAPS or replace something. We all know how Ford Center was built and it turned out wonderful from the fan experience and DID meet and exceed NBA standards for a very long time. Just tell the truth, be transparent, and develop/build world class the first time THIS TIME.
He didn't say a damn thing that wasn't true. Look at the cost, even after renovations of this arena, and it is still one of the poorest arenas. it is small, outdated, bare bones. He didn't say worst. Don't need to get offended by the truth. Pretty lies will not help in this situation. The arena is not good, when compared to 95% of the rest of the NBA arenas. New Orleans and maybe Utah's are worse. The rest, blow OKC out of the damn water. Holt is speaking to the people (not you) who keep saying that the Paycom is good enough, and nothing needs to happen (similar to having a dingy roof over your head works so long as it keeps the rain off of you). It really hasn't met NBA standards for a while, but for 2.5 years, there was a little pandemic going on to where you can't just come out and say the truth about something like this, due to the suffering around the world and state. Now that we seem to be on the other side of the pandemic, this is finally able to come out.
Rover 09-01-2022, 10:45 PM OKC may have the smallest or second smallest/cheapest arena but we do not have the worst. I know this is PR from Holt to get the arena replaced, but he should be more factual and just inform voters we need to build a world class arena in a larger building. Make the master plan on the Cox site and Im sure it will sell, and be less expensive overall (esp if parts of the lands are parcel off to developers.
I really dislike how OKC officials denegrade our venues every time it's time to MAPS or replace something. We all know how Ford Center was built and it turned out wonderful from the fan experience and DID meet and exceed NBA standards for a very long time. Just tell the truth, be transparent, and develop/build world class the first time THIS TIME.
He didn’t denigrate, he told the truth. If you traveled to many NBA arenas you would have to admit the same.
dcsooner 09-02-2022, 03:53 AM OKC may have the smallest or second smallest/cheapest arena but we do not have the worst. I know this is PR from Holt to get the arena replaced, but he should be more factual and just inform voters we need to build a world class arena in a larger building. Make the master plan on the Cox site and Im sure it will sell, and be less expensive overall (esp if parts of the lands are parcel off to developers.
I really dislike how OKC officials denegrade our venues every time it's time to MAPS or replace something. We all know how Ford Center was built and it turned out wonderful from the fan experience and DID meet and exceed NBA standards for a very long time. Just tell the truth, be transparent, and develop/build world class the first time THIS TIME.
I generally agree with your opinion but not about this. The PC is functional, bland in its appearance (externally). OKC DT needs more creative structures rather then bland sandstone rectangular ones. Milwaukee has a very bold DT for its size e.g its museum. OKC could use a “true “ entertainment and sports district.
HOT ROD 09-02-2022, 03:23 PM hey guys, Im not saying we dont need to replace Paycom. I totally agree and DC I too am hoping OKC goes big this time (see my last post).
I'm just saying it appears that everyone is throwing Paycom under the bus now just to make the political process to replace it more feasible - and <-- THAT is a common practice Ive noticed about OKC. To the contrary, I posted an earlier survey that had Paycom Center in the top half of arenas (ahead of American Airlines center Dallas) as the best NBA arenas. Also, if you listen to commentary just last year it did not have the same dire tone that it does now; Holt and all were saying they wanted to renovate and upgrade with MAPS 4 funds - which had passed as such with like minded outcome that now all of sudden wont fix the ugly pig. What changed?
That's all I'm saying. I'm all for replacing Paycomm and if they want to use MAPS 4 moneys originally meant for Paycom but now to use for the new arena - I'm all for it. Just don't now say that Paycom is so obscelete or worst in the NBA because that isn't true from even just the rhetoric he said last year let alone the survey I posted; and I have been to other NBA arenas and I think Paycom is currently about mid-pack just like the survey highlighted.
This switch in rhetoric by Holt is making me (at least) think he's being shady when if he just said, "hey other cities are building new arenas - we better start planning now to build a world class arena and could even use MAPS 4 fund that were meant for Paycom to get going right away" - I'd like that argument more.
Bill Robertson 09-02-2022, 04:03 PM hey guys, Im not saying we dont need to replace Paycom. I totally agree and DC I too am hoping OKC goes big this time (see my last post).
I'm just saying it appears that everyone is throwing Paycom under the bus now just to make the political process to replace it more feasible - and <-- THAT is a common practice Ive noticed about OKC. To the contrary, I posted an earlier survey that had Paycom Center in the top half of arenas (ahead of American Airlines center Dallas) as the best NBA arenas. Also, if you listen to commentary just last year it did not have the same dire tone that it does now; Holt and all were saying they wanted to renovate and upgrade with MAPS 4 funds - which had passed as such with like minded outcome that now all of sudden wont fix the ugly pig. What changed?
That's all I'm saying. I'm all for replacing Paycomm and if they want to use MAPS 4 moneys originally meant for Paycom but now to use for the new arena - I'm all for it. Just don't now say that Paycom is so obscelete or worst in the NBA because that isn't true from even just the rhetoric he said last year let alone the survey I posted; and I have been to other NBA arenas and I think Paycom is currently about mid-pack just like the survey highlighted.
This switch in rhetoric by Holt is making me (at least) think he's being shady when if he just said, "hey other cities are building new arenas - we better start planning now to build a world class arena and could even use MAPS 4 fund that were meant for Paycom to get going right away" - I'd like that argument more.
The fact is, and I hate it, the NBA teams hold their host cities hostage. I'm a function over form thinker. I didn't think Reunion Arena was bad. American Airlines is newer but not way better. BOK looks more modern outside than Paycom but I've been to lots of events there and inside I've never been impressed. I'm also all for building a new arena but agree with you that the Paycom isn't "obsolete garbage".
Laramie 09-02-2022, 08:44 PM When OKC gets its new area built. Use Paycom for ice related (Ice hockey, ice shows); also rodeo events like the PBR that's to big for new Fairgrounds Coliseum. Use it as the main arena for the new Oklahoma City Convention Center & Omni Hotel.
You might want to take a page from Omaha's Douglas Convention Center where you have swimming as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMxSwKhWxjY
The new arena needs to be reserved for large concerts, large gatherings, NBA & Collegiate basketball. Resurrect the
infamous 'All College NCAA Holiday Basketball Tournament.'
.
Bill Robertson 09-03-2022, 07:21 AM When OKC gets its new area built. Use Paycom for ice related (Ice hockey, ice shows); also rodeo events like the PBR that's to big for new Fairgrounds Coliseum. Use it as the main arena for the new Oklahoma City Convention Center & Omni Hotel.
You might want to take a page from Omaha's Douglas Convention Center where you have swimming as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMxSwKhWxjY
The new arena needs to be reserved for large concerts, large gatherings, NBA & Collegiate basketball. Resurrect the
infamous 'All College NCAA Holiday Basketball Tournament.'
.That is great. I wonder how they cover the pool up for a floor? And I would love for the All College to be resurrected.
chssooner 09-03-2022, 01:12 PM When OKC gets its new area built. Use Paycom for ice related (Ice hockey, ice shows); also rodeo events like the PBR that's to big for new Fairgrounds Coliseum. Use it as the main arena for the new Oklahoma City Convention Center & Omni Hotel.
You might want to take a page from Omaha's Douglas Convention Center where you have swimming as well.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMxSwKhWxjY
The new arena needs to be reserved for large concerts, large gatherings, NBA & Collegiate basketball. Resurrect the
infamous 'All College NCAA Holiday Basketball Tournament.'
.
This is actually their main arena. Nothing old about it. The CHI Health (formerly Qwest) Center is their main arena, which is what this is. But yes, the Paycom could be used for something like that. Or torn down for residential/mixed-use.
Laramie 09-05-2022, 04:04 PM Omaha, NE MSA 971,637, CITY 487,300
Oklahoma City, OK MSA 1,441,647, CITY 687,725
CHI Heath Center is Omaha's main arena and convention center built In 2000, Omaha voters approved a $216 million bond issue to build a new convention center and arena; the remainder of the $291 million project ($75 million) was provided by private organizations and individuals.
Owner: City of Omaha
Size: 1,118,300 square feet
Cost: $291
Seating capacity: 18,320 (basketball) - 17,100 (hockey)
Suites: 32 Luxury Suites and more than 1,000 Club Seats.
2021 value: ($429 million in 2021 dollars)
How are they paying off the construction debt? The plan was to pay off the debt using city property and sales tax revenue, parking revenue, seat taxes and state sales taxes collected in the Qwest and nearby hotels and "turned back" to the city. But most of the debt has been paid off with city property tax revenue.
Oklahoma City, a state-of-the-art $288 million convention center built in 2021 that is debt-free; includes massive 500,000-sq-ft interior includes a 200,730-square-foot exhibit hall on the first floor, which is divisible into four halls. About 45,000 square feet of meeting spaces are on all levels of the building. The rooms can be configured to provide up to 27 meeting spaces.
Now we need a new state of the art arena to match the convention center. Anticipate the cost of the new arena with 37% inflation on building materials to cost $450 million to $500 million on city owned land.
How are we able to pay off the debt; Bonds and/or sales taxes.
$70 million MAPS 4 Funds (PAUSE).
Extension vote: Oklahoma City 2017 General Obligation Bonds June 2017 ends June 2027 (10 years)
Extension vote: MAPS 4 initiative sales tax collection began April 2020 ends April 2028 (8 years)
.
warreng88 09-06-2022, 10:53 AM If you can get to the Cox Convention Center underground parking early, the last time I used it was early 2019--it cost $10.00 or maybe $20.00, it fills up fast. You need to be careful parking off site from the Paycom Center (Peake); there may be impostors collecting parking fees on private lots.
Took my girlfriend and her friend (working at a concert) to the area, was asked to pay $15.00 behind a building near the old abandoned Rescue Mission (Spooky). Noticed police were driving around and the guy (wearing loud orange vest) quickly said I'll be back.'
My mind, that drew a red flag. Got ready to pay the guy--he never returned. Walked to my brother's codo (where parking was full there); returned later when my girlfriend texted me that they were ready. Never paid the $15.00, so, I can only guess what happened there.
The area on event nights can make you feel a little cautious and uneasy. B/C some people are walking around like 'zombies' asking for change or help. Always keep snacks, shoes & coats in my trunk--you never want to reach for a wallet in areas you're not familiar with b/c you don't know if a person's 'got game.'
Always keep some protection with you in your vehicle--in case someone wants to act 'ugly.'
Even in playoff games, I have never seen the main street parking garage charge more than $10.
The fact is, and I hate it, the NBA teams hold their host cities hostage. I'm a function over form thinker. I didn't think Reunion Arena was bad. American Airlines is newer but not way better. BOK looks more modern outside than Paycom but I've been to lots of events there and inside I've never been impressed. I'm also all for building a new arena but agree with you that the Paycom isn't "obsolete garbage".
Agree, especially about BOK. It certainly doesn't function better than Paycom.
If all they really want is a nicer front door and maybe some asymmetrical liquid metal looking façade, we def don't need to start all over for that. I assume any push by team ownership for a new arena would be motivated by added revenue streams and I don't think just making the outside look different is going to do that. At the end of the day, their product is mainly the team they put on the floor and that has nothing to do with the architecture that surrounds it. The experience does matter for sure, but that's not going to create consistent sell outs on its own.
Bill Robertson 09-06-2022, 03:19 PM Even in playoff games, I have never seen the main street parking garage charge more than $10.
I haven't ever paid more than $10. When we go to St Louis for Cards games we have a couple go-to hotels we stay at within walking distance so we don't have to pay $20 to $30 to park.
Zorba 09-07-2022, 10:00 PM The fact is, and I hate it, the NBA teams hold their host cities hostage. I'm a function over form thinker. I didn't think Reunion Arena was bad. American Airlines is newer but not way better. BOK looks more modern outside than Paycom but I've been to lots of events there and inside I've never been impressed. I'm also all for building a new arena but agree with you that the Paycom isn't "obsolete garbage".
I haven't been to other other NBA arenas, but I agree with you, IMHO Paycom is significantly better than BOK on the inside where it actually matters.
shawnw 09-08-2022, 12:04 PM It's been since 2006 since I was at the Suns arena, not sure if it's been replaced, but I did not enjoy the game experience at the time, the bowl layout seemed much farther away from the action in general, and I had decent seats (lower bowl).
I haven't been to other other NBA arenas, but I agree with you, IMHO Paycom is significantly better than BOK on the inside where it actually matters.
I've been to a handful of other arenas for NBA games and I don't ever remember thinking that the amenities, function, comfort, interior etc. was head and shoulders above what's going on inside Paycom, save for maybe MSG (the arena bowl is really nice there). A few definitely had better front doors / atriums and/or exteriors. That being said, I didn't have access to any of the "luxury" amenities or levels at those games and didn't explore the entire arena. I've been all over Paycom over the years, so it's kind of hard to compare everything about them when I didn't see everything at any other arena. And none of these arenas were built from the ground up in the last 10 years. All had been renovated at least once, but none were brand new. So maybe there's some new things going into arenas these days of which I am just not aware.
I can say that they all have more going on in them than the BOK center. But that's to be expected. Paycom didn't have 1/10 of what has been added since it got a major league tenant.
I think what's hard about evaluating Paycom vs a new arena is that we don't have any idea what this new arena concept really is and how it would be different / better than Paycom. I'm not even sure anyone has pointed out anything specific that is lacking at Paycom that requires new construction to address. I'm definitely not against the idea of it, but we don't really know what the "it" is.
Bill Robertson 09-08-2022, 03:24 PM I haven't been to other other NBA arenas, but I agree with you, IMHO Paycom is significantly better than BOK on the inside where it actually matters. I've never understood the infatuation with the BOK. We've been to a number of concerts there and often end up on the third level. The walkway around the arena and the amenities on the third level of Paycom are way better than BOK.
scottk 09-14-2022, 08:52 AM I've never understood the infatuation with the BOK. We've been to a number of concerts there and often end up on the third level. The walkway around the arena and the amenities on the third level of Paycom are way better than BOK.
Decent tour of BOK's Amenities, gives you an idea of the quality of finishes, suites, etc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6yaw6s42Ccs
When OKC's Arena was built, it was as cookie cutter as it can be, there was nothing that really made Ford Center stand out, other than it was newer and better equipped with three levels wrap around concourses, compared to The Myriad's one giant concourse and no suites. The suite level and upper concourse 300 levels at Paycom are pretty narrow compared to other arena's with similar capacities, this limits the ability to provide more "fan friendly" amenities and opportunities to make more money at events. The renovations and addition on the south side have helped the arena be viable for the last 15 years.
Decent tour of BOK's Amenities, gives you an idea of the quality of finishes, suites, etc:
When OKC's Arena was built, it was as cookie cutter as it can be, there was nothing that really made Ford Center stand out, other than it was newer and better equipped with three levels wrap around concourses, compared to The Myriad's one giant concourse and no suites. The suite level and upper concourse 300 levels at Paycom are pretty narrow compared to other arena's with similar capacities, this limits the ability to provide more "fan friendly" amenities and opportunities to make more money at events. The renovations and addition on the south side have helped the arena be viable for the last 15 years.
I think the original Ford Center is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion at this point. After the remodels, the finishes and quality of suites, bunker clubs, VIP dining areas are all nice. All the common areas and two main entrances have been redone with quality finishes as well. It has some outdoor space that has been underutilized, imo, but other than that it's finished nicely and functions very well.
The footprint and the size of the lot it's on may be the only thing holding it back from adding modern improvements at this point. I don't think BOK is very relevant to the discussion in that sense, either. It's smaller square footage wise (565,000 sq ft) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOK_Center#:~:text=The%20arena%20encompasses%20565 %2C000%20square,the%20three%2Dlevel%20seating%20ar ea.) than Paycom (581,000 sq ft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paycom_Center#Arena_information)). I think to justify a complete new build, it would need to be in the 750k-900k square feet range of a lot of NBA arenas. Doing something ike BOK Center would be a lateral move at best and a total waste of money.
Laramie 09-14-2022, 02:21 PM I think the original Ford Center is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion at this point. After the remodels, the finishes and quality of suites, bunker clubs, VIP dining areas are all nice. All the common areas and two main entrances have been redone with quality finishes as well. It has some outdoor space that has been underutilized, imo, but other than that it's finished nicely and functions very well.
The footprint and the size of the lot it's on may be the only thing holding it back from adding modern improvements at this point. I don't think BOK is very relevant to the discussion in that sense, either. It's smaller square footage wise (565,000 sq ft) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BOK_Center#:~:text=The%20arena%20encompasses%20565 %2C000%20square,the%20three%2Dlevel%20seating%20ar ea.) than Paycom (581,000 sq ft (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paycom_Center#Arena_information)). I think to justify a complete new build, it would need to be in the of a lot of NBA arenas. Doing something ike BOK Center would be a lateral move at best and a total waste of money.
Agree BDP, OKC will need 750k-900k sq ft range. Predict that once the 2017 bonds expire in 2026 & MAPS 4 expires in 2027 the city could use both bonds/sales tax extensions to quickly pay off the new arena in 3 years.
A new State-of-the-Art arena (demolished Cox site) should cost $500 - $600 million--comparable to Capital One Arena & Fiserv Forum. The site has major infrastructure and underground parking (950 spaces that could save $150 million.
Encompassing 4-square blocks gives you room to include what Paycom Center doesn't have. We could build an arena
with a beautiful interior/exterior.
HOT ROD 09-14-2022, 07:00 PM Larry, dont forget that the city will also have MAPS 4 funds available that were originally meant for Paycomm, that can be used for the new arena. GO Bond + Maps 4 + possible Maps 4 extension IMO makes this a go with minimal impact to the taxpayer.
OKC should go big, with a 900K sq feet arena on part of the Cox lands, repurposing the parking, and having developers create OKCs version of LA LIve. having a 900K footpring allows the building to be retrofitted in the future should design/requirements change without having to start over every single time with a new building. ..
Laramie 09-14-2022, 08:28 PM Larry, dont forget that the city will also have MAPS 4 funds available that were originally meant for Paycomm, that can be used for the new arena. GO Bond + Maps 4 + possible Maps 4 extension IMO makes this a go with minimal impact to the taxpayer.
OKC should go big, with a 900K sq feet arena on part of the Cox lands, repurposing the parking, and having developers create OKCs version of LA LIve. having a 900K footpring allows the building to be retrofitted in the future should design/requirements change without having to start over every single time with a new building. ..
Your reference is the $70 million put on 'pause.' Forgot about that, thanks for mentioning.
They may use it toward prep work for the new arena, or for the Thunder Alley. We'll know more once the city hires a firm like Populous to get the ball rolling.
Agree BDP, OKC will need 750k-900k sq ft range. Predict that once the 2017 bonds expire in 2026 & MAPS 4 expires in 2027 the city could use both bonds/sales tax extensions to quickly pay off the new arena in 3 years.
With that timeline, hopefully bond funding would allow it to be constructed once approved and not wait to start until the $600 MM is in the bank. Because if it's funded through a MAPS type initiative, couldn't that take the time to completion out 10+ years? I'm just worried that, in the meantime, Paycom gets neglected. Or, maybe they are wanting to "tank" the arena, too, to get support for a new one. lol
A new State-of-the-Art arena (demolished Cox site) should cost $500 - $600 million--comparable to Capital One Arena & Fiserv Forum.
Man, the price tags on those two examples are very far apart. $411 MM (in "2020 dollars", according to wiki) for Capitol One and $1.2 Billion for Fiserv. I'm assuming the Fiserv costs included some surrounding development?
I also think the Cox site can even better leverage the entertainment assets in Bricktown than Paycom currently does, if the design is conscious of it. Obviously, that's a challenge with the tracks being a physical divider. But, if properly integrated with the Santa Fe hub and into bricktown, it could have some nice benefits. If it interacts well with Myriad Gardens on one side and Santa Fe / Bricktown on the other, it would hopefully be more of a bridge between the two instead of the barrier on all sides that the cox site has been for 50 years.
Laramie 09-19-2022, 10:31 PM NBA arenas - top ten:
1. Chase Center, San Francisco, $1.48 billion, 2019 - 18,064
2. Fiserv Forum, Milwaukee, $1.2 billion, 2018 - 17,385
3. Barclays Center, Brooklyn, $1 billion/$1.18 billion in 2021 dollars, 2012 - 17,732
4. Little Caesars Arena, Detroit, $862.9/$988 million in 2021 dollars, 2017 - 20,332
5. Golden 1 Center, Sacramento, $558.2 million, 2016 - 17,608
6. Amway Center, Orlando, $480 million/$604 million in 2021dollars, 2010 - 18,846
7. American Airlines Center, Dallas, $420 million/$643 million in 2021 dollars- 2001 - 19,200
8. Crypto.com Arena, Los Angeles, $375 million/$610 million in 2021 dollars- 1999 - 19,079
9. Scotiabank Arena, Toronto, $265 million/$404 million in 2021 dollars - 1999 - 19,800
10. Moda Center, Portland, $262 million/$466 million in 2021 - 1995 - 19,393
Average cost of the top 10 NBA arenas: $675 million
Average age of the top 10 NBA arenas: 8 years, 6 months
Average capacity of the top 10 NBA arenas: 18,824
Source Thunderwire - July 2022: Ranking all 29 NBA arenas in terms of construction cost: https://okcthunderwire.usatoday.com/lists/ranking-all-29-nba-arenas-in-terms-of-construction-cost/
Timshel 12-06-2022, 04:32 PM Got an email today stating they're planning to begin replacing the seats in the arena starting next week. Doing one section at a time between Thunder games/events. The 100 and 200 level seats located on concrete will be done first and then seats on the metal risers and loud city will be done summer 2023 with everything finished before next season. All seats will have cupholders, which will be nice!
dankrutka 12-06-2022, 06:40 PM Yay for cupholders! I've spilt one too many beers sitting under my seat over the years!
CCOKC 12-06-2022, 06:54 PM And I have stopped bringing a purse to games because of the spilt beers under the seats. ;)
Bullbear 12-07-2022, 07:13 AM am I making this up or did they not originally all have cup holders but some removed due to limited size of seats and to give more room? hope the new seating is a nice upgrade. I swear arena seats get smaller and smaller.
Anonymous. 12-07-2022, 08:09 AM That's because arenas are basically adapting to the modern socioeconomics.
There is a small percentage of fans that can afford luxurious evenings at a concert or professional sports game and drop 10 grand on private suite rentals, parking, concessions. Then you have a large percentage of fans that are able to maybe afford a $60 seat for the same event. The problem is people generally take up the same amount of space, so the sacrifices are made to the low rollers' experience since they are paying so much less for their space.
The future of arenas is more suites (w/ varying levels of VIP), private entrances, valet/parking, exclusive concessions and restaurants, and on-site hotel accommodations.
FighttheGoodFight 12-07-2022, 08:11 AM I believe up in Loud City no cup holders but in 200 level they all have them.
Dob Hooligan 12-07-2022, 11:18 AM am I making this up or did they not originally all have cup holders but some removed due to limited size of seats and to give more room? hope the new seating is a nice upgrade. I swear arena seats get smaller and smaller.
I recall that the arm rests were shortened after installation (by cutting off cup holders) because the rows were so close together people could not walk to their seats. Or something like that.
Bill Robertson 12-07-2022, 12:37 PM I recall that the arm rests were shortened after installation (by cutting off cup holders) because the rows were so close together people could not walk to their seats. Or something like that.
I also remember them doing some modifications to the seats not long after the arena was built.
Laramie 12-07-2022, 04:37 PM Time for a new NBA specific arena that tops our current 18,203 seat Paycom Center. Paycom Center could then be modified for minor league Ice hockey, OSSAA high school basketball playoffs, rodeos and related events that need more seating than the proposed 5,000 seat State Fair Coliseum.
The new Downtown NBA specific arena could be used for NBA and some concerts and special events.
caaokc 12-08-2022, 07:38 AM A mix between Bankers Life Fieldhouse in Indianapolis and Detroit’s Little Caesars Arena would be amazing. And make it basketball only to get the seats as close to the action as they can get.
I wonder when they’ll announce plans or leak anything out to gauge the reaction.
Laramie 12-08-2022, 10:53 AM A mix between Bankers Life Fieldhouse in Indianapolis and Detroit’s Little Caesars Arena would be amazing. And make it basketball only to get the seats as close to the action as they can get.
I wonder when they’ll announce plans or leak anything out to gauge the reaction.
Doubt if they will leak any plans until they are ready to more forward.
The ownership group and the city are in a good position to dictate what both groups want in terms of the arena's design and amenities to make this NBA specific and more concourse space. Selling this for voter approval $500 million (bonds or MAPS 4 extension) since the original plans proposed for the DT arena was to lure an NHL expansion franchise.
Paycom Center could be used more in conjunction with the new convention center and minor league ice hockey (?) to cater to groups in the 5,000 - 15,000 range.
The 4 square block site of Prairie Surf Media will save the city roughly $175 million in site acquisition and prep work--cost
for most new arenas just to lay the foundation.
OKC should aim to build a top five NBA facility on this site.
.
USSOklahoma 12-10-2022, 07:41 AM Doubt if they will leak any plans until they are ready to more forward.
The ownership group and the city are in a good position to dictate what both groups want in terms of the arena's design and amenities to make this NBA specific and more concourse space. Selling this for voter approval $500 million (bonds or MAPS 4 extension) since the original plans proposed for the DT arena was to lure an NHL expansion franchise.
Paycom Center could be used more in conjunction with the new convention center and minor league ice hockey (?) to cater to groups in the 5,000 - 15,000 range.
The 4 square block site of Prairie Surf Media will save the city roughly $175 million in site acquisition and prep work--cost
for most new arenas just to lay the foundation.
OKC should aim to build a top five NBA facility on this site.
.
I would imagine the paycom would come down when the new area is built and they’d build some sort of “thunder alley” mixed use area with big screens and bars like ballpark village by Busch Stadium in St Louis or a small LA Live by Staples Center with some parking or something
JDSooners 12-10-2022, 09:13 AM Yay for cupholders! I've spilt one too many beers sitting under my seat over the years!
But what's the size of the cup holder? There's nothing more annoying then not being able to fit a 32 Oz collectors cup in the cup holder
April in the Plaza 12-10-2022, 12:33 PM Doubt if they will leak any plans until they are ready to more forward.
The ownership group and the city are in a good position to dictate what both groups want in terms of the arena's design and amenities to make this NBA specific and more concourse space. Selling this for voter approval $500 million (bonds or MAPS 4 extension) since the original plans proposed for the DT arena was to lure an NHL expansion franchise.
Paycom Center could be used more in conjunction with the new convention center and minor league ice hockey (?) to cater to groups in the 5,000 - 15,000 range.
The 4 square block site of Prairie Surf Media will save the city roughly $175 million in site acquisition and prep work--cost
for most new arenas just to lay the foundation.
OKC should aim to build a top five NBA facility on this site.
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Getting into that category would take easily $1.5B, at minimum. Just don’t see that happening, at this point in the fed cycle, unless the ownership group decides to chip in some very big capital.
Laramie 12-11-2022, 07:03 PM With that timeline, hopefully bond funding would allow it to be constructed once approved and not wait to start until the $600 MM is in the bank. Because if it's funded through a MAPS type initiative, couldn't that take the time to completion out 10+ years? I'm just worried that, in the meantime, Paycom gets neglected. Or, maybe they are wanting to "tank" the arena, too, to get support for a new one. lol
Man, the price tags on those two examples are very far apart. $411 MM (in "2020 dollars", according to wiki) for Capitol One and $1.2 Billion for Fiserv. I'm assuming the Fiserv costs included some surrounding development?
I also think the Cox site can even better leverage the entertainment assets in Bricktown than Paycom currently does, if the design is conscious of it. Obviously, that's a challenge with the tracks being a physical divider. But, if properly integrated with the Santa Fe hub and into bricktown, it could have some nice benefits. If it interacts well with Myriad Gardens on one side and Santa Fe / Bricktown on the other, it would hopefully be more of a bridge between the two instead of the barrier on all sides that the cox site has been for 50 years.
Make a correction on Fiserv Forum, Milwaukee, it did include a surrounding development. The arena and parking garage cost $524 million--included--$250 million from taxpayers in various forms, $174 million from the team's owners and $100 million from former Sen. Herb Kohl.
It will be of interest to see what the combination of the $70 million put on pause and the 4-square block Prairie Surf Media site will
yield toward a new arena; $350 million (new funds), $70 million = ($420 million) and the site should make our new NBA arena better than 23 of the current 29 NBA arenas.
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chssooner 12-11-2022, 07:43 PM I hate that we aren't expecting any capital inflow from the owners. Pathetic how our super-wealthy here don't care at all about this, except to milk the taxpayers as much as possible.
Rover 12-11-2022, 08:04 PM I hate that we aren't expecting any capital inflow from the owners. Pathetic how our super-wealthy here don't care at all about this, except to milk the taxpayers as much as possible.
Cynical and bitter much?
chssooner 12-11-2022, 08:31 PM Cynical and bitter much?
I just know how much the city has put into the Paycom, and not had a dime of help from the owners of the NBA team most of these improvements were for. I hope I am proven wrong, but I think the owners will put a tin bit in (less than 4%)
MooreOrLess 12-12-2022, 08:22 AM Cynical and bitter much?
I don't think it's bitter to be upset that the city is socializing the super wealthy owners of the Thunder with public funds
Rover 12-12-2022, 12:20 PM I don't think it's bitter to be upset that the city is socializing the super wealthy owners of the Thunder with public funds
Socialize wealthy owners. LOL.
There is no wonder that this state has struggled just to be below average economically, socially, culturally and educationally. There is huge resentment of success in this state.
Jersey Boss 12-12-2022, 01:13 PM Let 'em eat cake, eh?
Soonerinfiniti 12-12-2022, 04:08 PM I've heard that the Sistine Chapel exhibit is outstanding. You listen to headphones on an app and see life size panels. Something you would never get to see, even at the Vatican.
CitySooner 12-12-2022, 04:14 PM Socialize wealthy owners. LOL.
There is no wonder that this state has struggled just to be below average economically, socially, culturally and educationally. There is huge resentment of success in this state.
There is a ton of truth to this, but no one will want to admit it. Even if the owners dumped a bunch of money into the project - people would still find a way to badmouth them. Completely mind-boggling.
Jersey Boss 12-12-2022, 04:55 PM ^ Wrong thread. Exhibit is not at Paycom
chestercheetah 12-12-2022, 09:03 PM The NBA Thunder franchise has an impact on this state as a whole; especially the two largest Oklahoma City-Tulsa media markets. IIRC there were 2,500 - 4,000 season ticket holders from the Tulsa MSA.
Tax payers who are going to foot the bill for the arena if bonds (September 2027 extension) and/or possibly an extension of MAPS funds used to finance the venue are primarily from the OKC area. Already have $70 million (growing interest) on pause. Also President's Biden's infrastructure bill may have funds for which cities qualify.
The Cox Convention Center site, if selected will save OKC at least $150 million on land and parking (950 spaces underneath; $300 million for a new arena total investment $520 million = $300 million bonds, $150 million Cox site & $70 million MAPS 4 funds on pause growing interest could be used to finance by extending the bonds for 3 years or more without extending MAPS 4 funds. We're going to be given a new life line to get this done right.
My preference is a blueprint similar to Capital One Center, Washington D. C., 20,000 seats. We can partisan off 1.500 seats if we don't need to use the full arena.
This sounds like a good plan. Prairie Surf may not think so lol.
Rover 12-12-2022, 10:29 PM Let 'em eat cake, eh?
Lol. Talk about apples and oranges.
OKC Guy 12-12-2022, 10:43 PM Lets look at this another way. We gave Costco $3m to build their northside store. When lookimg at the cost Costco invested thats a small percentage in comparision. IÂ’ve read about many projects here questioning us giving incentive money to help a new company come here. But the amounts we gave for various projects is small as a percentage of what the company is investing.
Now lets use same reasoning for Thunder. Why are taxpayers paying a manority of it? Whether money comes from fed or local we all pay taxes its still our money being spent not the owners. If the bulk of our other money awards are say 10% of their investment then we should use same percentage on Thunder and owners pay the rest. Thunder is still a business and their value appreciates every year. Although its not money in bank until sold it is real money thru appreciation. If they sold team they bank every cent not us. Look at what they paid and what their value is now. Its appreciated over $1b since then.
Imagine if we used that Thunder money as enticements to get new bisinesses to move here. $500m of taxpayer money would be a lot of new businesses to potentially sway. And our current arena is fine for where we stand in NBA circles. WeÂ’ve already invested lots of tax money into it now again? Will we pay Costco more money to rebuild their store in 20 years?
BoulderSooner 12-13-2022, 08:19 AM Lets look at this another way. We gave Costco $3m to build their northside store. When lookimg at the cost Costco invested thats a small percentage in comparision. IÂ’ve read about many projects here questioning us giving incentive money to help a new company come here. But the amounts we gave for various projects is small as a percentage of what the company is investing.
Now lets use same reasoning for Thunder. Why are taxpayers paying a manority of it? Whether money comes from fed or local we all pay taxes its still our money being spent not the owners. If the bulk of our other money awards are say 10% of their investment then we should use same percentage on Thunder and owners pay the rest. Thunder is still a business and their value appreciates every year. Although its not money in bank until sold it is real money thru appreciation. If they sold team they bank every cent not us. Look at what they paid and what their value is now. Its appreciated over $1b since then.
Imagine if we used that Thunder money as enticements to get new bisinesses to move here. $500m of taxpayer money would be a lot of new businesses to potentially sway. And our current arena is fine for where we stand in NBA circles. WeÂ’ve already invested lots of tax money into it now again? Will we pay Costco more money to rebuild their store in 20 years?
the thunder don't own the arena OKC does okc is building an arena for itself ... period .... because having concerts and events is good for OKC ..
MooreOrLess 12-13-2022, 08:32 AM Socialize wealthy owners. LOL.
There is no wonder that this state has struggled just to be below average economically, socially, culturally and educationally. There is huge resentment of success in this state.
I'm fine with people being successful. Giving those successful people public money that can be used elsewhere (such as on education and culture, as you pointed out) is what I have an issue with. It's odd to argue that the reason Oklahoma is behind other states is that we don't give rich people enough public funds.
OKC Guy 12-13-2022, 06:57 PM the thunder don't own the arena OKC does okc is building an arena for itself ... period .... because having concerts and events is good for OKC ..
Using your words the current arena is perfect for concerts and events. The only reason a new one is being discussed is for the Thunder, lets be honest here.
Since taxpayers foot 90% or more of arena cost (I think thats the rough figures but they could change or be off) yet team owners make millions if not billions from team valuations increasing - and yet when has a sold team paid back the city for even some of their investment. Teams use failure to build new arenas as a threat to leave as well.
I propose a new model. If OKC taxpayers foot the bill to build a new arena then we do a valuation of the team the 2 prior years of the new arena opening. If that average is $1.5b then we use that as a base. Then later on if the team ownership (more than 49.9%) changes hands we do a new 2 year valuation of the 2 prior years to selling. Lets just say in 2034 the ownership changes hands and the 2 year valuation average is $3.1b, thats our sold baseline.
What I propose is that OKC gets 50% of the increased valuation. In this scenario OKC would get half of $1.6b by the selling owners, so weÂ’d get $800m. We can then place that money in some type of trust to be used for a future arena or major modifications. The then new owner would not be on any hook unless we build another one way down the road.
My take is if we are going to invest so much tax money only to see owners make bank on valuation increases (and new arenas always super size new valuations) then the taxpayers should share in the extra value we added. This would satisfy any taxpayer about spending money knowing we have an investment and might help gain support for the tax and team as well. Current owners still make out due to the increased valuations more than cover what they pay us out if sold. Without a new arena their valuation still goes up but not nearly as much. And this clause protects taxpayers in case owner/s sells team and its moved.
HOT ROD 12-13-2022, 09:14 PM didn't the thunder ownership group pay some $360m to purchase the team and $40m+ to the city of Seattle to move them in summer 2008, well before 2012 lease with them was over? NONE of that money came from OKC or the state. Also consider that MOST of the thunder ownership also put up big bucks to get the Oklahoma City Hornets and host them from 2005-2007.
I'm not saying the ownership group shouldn't contribute to the new arena; but I did want to note that they aren't exactly skating by on socialist handouts from OKC either. And as was noted, OKC owns the facility not the ownership (they pay rent).
Lets look at this another way. We gave Costco $3m to build their northside store. When lookimg at the cost Costco invested thats a small percentage in comparision. IÂ’ve read about many projects here questioning us giving incentive money to help a new company come here. But the amounts we gave for various projects is small as a percentage of what the company is investing.
Now lets use same reasoning for Thunder. Why are taxpayers paying a manority of it? Whether money comes from fed or local we all pay taxes its still our money being spent not the owners. If the bulk of our other money awards are say 10% of their investment then we should use same percentage on Thunder and owners pay the rest. Thunder is still a business and their value appreciates every year. Although its not money in bank until sold it is real money thru appreciation. If they sold team they bank every cent not us. Look at what they paid and what their value is now. Its appreciated over $1b since then.
Imagine if we used that Thunder money as enticements to get new bisinesses to move here. $500m of taxpayer money would be a lot of new businesses to potentially sway. And our current arena is fine for where we stand in NBA circles. WeÂ’ve already invested lots of tax money into it now again? Will we pay Costco more money to rebuild their store in 20 years?
HOT ROD 12-13-2022, 09:16 PM This sounds like a good plan. Prairie Surf may not think so lol.
Prarie Surf leases the myriad and know their time will be over. This was an incubator deal that if successful would create a new industry sector in OKC. One would only assume that when OKC no longer renews their lease that Prarrie Surf will find other digs or build new, purpose-built facilities.
Bellaboo 12-13-2022, 09:24 PM IIRC, Prarie Surf has been mentioned on a possible location in Strawberry Fields ?
BoulderSooner 12-14-2022, 08:51 AM Using your words the current arena is perfect for concerts and events. The only reason a new one is being discussed is for the Thunder, lets be honest here.
Since taxpayers foot 90% or more of arena cost (I think thats the rough figures but they could change or be off) yet team owners make millions if not billions from team valuations increasing - and yet when has a sold team paid back the city for even some of their investment. Teams use failure to build new arenas as a threat to leave as well.
I propose a new model. If OKC taxpayers foot the bill to build a new arena then we do a valuation of the team the 2 prior years of the new arena opening. If that average is $1.5b then we use that as a base. Then later on if the team ownership (more than 49.9%) changes hands we do a new 2 year valuation of the 2 prior years to selling. Lets just say in 2034 the ownership changes hands and the 2 year valuation average is $3.1b, thats our sold baseline.
What I propose is that OKC gets 50% of the increased valuation. In this scenario OKC would get half of $1.6b by the selling owners, so weÂ’d get $800m. We can then place that money in some type of trust to be used for a future arena or major modifications. The then new owner would not be on any hook unless we build another one way down the road.
My take is if we are going to invest so much tax money only to see owners make bank on valuation increases (and new arenas always super size new valuations) then the taxpayers should share in the extra value we added. This would satisfy any taxpayer about spending money knowing we have an investment and might help gain support for the tax and team as well. Current owners still make out due to the increased valuations more than cover what they pay us out if sold. Without a new arena their valuation still goes up but not nearly as much. And this clause protects taxpayers in case owner/s sells team and its moved.
lol if you don't think the Thunder bring value to OKC then oppose the new arena .... the Thunder games are some of the events i am talking about .... there are 30 of these in the world and OKC is in the club ........ we don't have to be ..
Rover 12-14-2022, 09:12 AM Using your words the current arena is perfect for concerts and events. The only reason a new one is being discussed is for the Thunder, lets be honest here.
Since taxpayers foot 90% or more of arena cost (I think thats the rough figures but they could change or be off) yet team owners make millions if not billions from team valuations increasing - and yet when has a sold team paid back the city for even some of their investment. Teams use failure to build new arenas as a threat to leave as well.
I propose a new model. If OKC taxpayers foot the bill to build a new arena then we do a valuation of the team the 2 prior years of the new arena opening. If that average is $1.5b then we use that as a base. Then later on if the team ownership (more than 49.9%) changes hands we do a new 2 year valuation of the 2 prior years to selling. Lets just say in 2034 the ownership changes hands and the 2 year valuation average is $3.1b, thats our sold baseline.
What I propose is that OKC gets 50% of the increased valuation. In this scenario OKC would get half of $1.6b by the selling owners, so weÂ’d get $800m. We can then place that money in some type of trust to be used for a future arena or major modifications. The then new owner would not be on any hook unless we build another one way down the road.
My take is if we are going to invest so much tax money only to see owners make bank on valuation increases (and new arenas always super size new valuations) then the taxpayers should share in the extra value we added. This would satisfy any taxpayer about spending money knowing we have an investment and might help gain support for the tax and team as well. Current owners still make out due to the increased valuations more than cover what they pay us out if sold. Without a new arena their valuation still goes up but not nearly as much. And this clause protects taxpayers in case owner/s sells team and its moved.
Why worry. Since you think the arena is so valuable, I’m sure if the Thunder left there would be so many other world class organizations move to fill it up. The Thunder doesn’t bring value to OKC anyway, right? And we would still have the asset which is really their value driver right? Lol
Laramie 12-14-2022, 01:44 PM Hometown owners make a big difference because they are invested in the city in which they live.
The owners have not publicly threatened to sell or move. If they did want to sell, I can think of a few places off the top of my head that
would love to be in OKC's position like Austin, Virginia Beach-Norfolk, Louisville, Richmond & Tulsa (Cities wanting to crack into the big leagues) and others like San Diego (MLB Padres) & St. Louis (MLB Cardinals), who want to add one more big league franchise to their portfolio.
Ownership's investment in a new arena would signal their commitment to long term viability of the franchise, it's not paramount. A new arena will be owned by the City for as long as it remains. Our Thunder CEO Clay Bennett has a grown son named Graham Bennett and two grown daughters Christine & Mollie. This franchise could be in OKC for another 20-30 years if handed down to his children if they wanted to embrace that mantle. Now let's not forget that their are other owners besides the CEO who have vested interest as well.
Our market current has 1.5 million (700,000 city)--projected to reach 1.7 million come 2030 and 2 million in 2040; that could change dramatically as the city evolves.
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