Personally I hope they do something like the Intuit Center. https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1438853754879631363/photo/4

The 4th picture shows how it's going to be built a little old school, with the 100 level rising to the ceiling. Would be an absolute mad house in there and have a college basketball type feel.

The Clippers are building theirs to be basketball specific with concert ability, but very basketball centric. Something OKC should consider given the NHL is likely done at 32 teams.

https://www.nba.com/clippers/#renderings

Large arenas are a thing of the past. No longer the need to pack as many faces in there as possible when most people in the nosebleeds would rather watch from the HDTV anyway. A 17k capacity arena with comfortable, spacious seating, cup holders, more fan amenities, better sight lines, and world class design would satisfy me

Intuit has my favorite aesthetic and potential to be an example for new arena’s moving forward. I mentioned Chase Center and surrounding parts of Mission Bay in San Francisco being a great example to follow in connecting a new arena to the city around it but as far as individual arena’s go, I think Intuit has the best potential of being a standard for future arena designs. We’ll see but it’s stood out to me since the renderings were first released.

You guys wanting a 20,000+ seats in the new arena are just setting yourselves up for disappointment.

This isn't 1985, and # of seats isn't how they measure quality anymore. There is no chance the new arena has 20k or above. Zip, Zero, Nada. Not to mention 22,500 would be 10% bigger than the largest arena in the NBA. That's not happening in one of the smallest markets.

LCA in Detroit came out larger because of the Red Wings, not the Pistons. (Who then ripped out all the red seats because it looked bad on camera when the arena was never full)

Last 12 years of new arenas

Chase Center Golden State Warriors 18,064 2019
Fiserv Forum Milwaukee Bucks 17,500 2018
Little Caesars Arena Detroit Pistons 20,332 2017
Golden 1 Center Sacramento Kings 17,583 2016
Barclays Center Brooklyn Nets 17,732 2012
Amway Center Orlando Magic 18,846 2010

Most like is 17,500 to 18,500.

Just food for discussion on the new arena... Don't think anyone will be disappointed with an 18,000 + or - arena. Just want the amenities to work seamlessly together. Any exterior improvements over the Paycom Center will be a welcome sight.

If you're going to demolish an existing structure to make room for the new arena, begin with the Cox Convention Center site (Prairie Surf Media Studios). Will save millions on City-owned land. New arena will cost approximately $500 million +/- on city owned land.

Personally I hope they do something like the Intuit Center. https://twitter.com/BleacherReport/status/1438853754879631363/photo/4

The 4th picture shows how it's going to be built a little old school, with the 100 level rising to the ceiling. Would be an absolute mad house in there and have a college basketball type feel.

The Clippers are building theirs to be basketball specific with concert ability, but very basketball centric. Something OKC should consider given the NHL is likely done at 32 teams.

https://www.nba.com/clippers/#renderings

oh man! Something with that seating arrangement would be awesome

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_fV2soXoAQ9xBr?format=jpg&name=large
Really like those steep and deep seats. If our new arena had something like that; the noise level
would be awesome.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/E_fV2soXoAQ9xBr?format=jpg&name=large
Really like those steep and deep seats. If our new arena had something like that; the noise level
would be awesome.
I was really surprised the first time I went to the old Reunion Arena in Dallas how steep the seating was. It was a little disconcerting at first but it made for a great atmosphere and a great view once I got used to it.

in the next 20 years it just recently completed a renovation .. which cost over 1 billion dollars ..

That refurb was against the wishes of NYC, who leases the "ground" that MSG sits on. The lease expires next year and the city wants MSG to move so that Penn Station underneath MSG can be expanded.

That refurb was against the wishes of NYC, who leases the "ground" that MSG sits on. The lease expires next year and the city wants MSG to move so that Penn Station underneath MSG can be expanded.

and there is 0.00% chance they move in the next 5 years ..

and there is 0.00% chance they move in the next 5 years ..

They'll get it figured out. MSG is the NBA's Vatican

They'll get it figured out. MSG is the NBA's Vatican

i think it will eventually move down the street ...... the last "plan" was a 13 billion dollar development ..

Question for the board: I have looked through several of the proposals that include hotels/living units, retail, etc on the space with the arena. How would that be built? Would the city build or put out RFP's for construction like they did with Boulevard Place? Just trying to understand how the new way of doing things would work.

Question for the board: I have looked through several of the proposals that include hotels/living units, retail, etc on the space with the arena. How would that be built? Would the city build or put out RFP's for construction like they did with Boulevard Place? Just trying to understand how the new way of doing things would work.

Clarification... Are you referencing the current Paycom Center (arena) or the possibility of using the 4 square block old Myriad site...

i think it will eventually move down the street ...... the last "plan" was a 13 billion dollar development ..
Have you seen the proposal or rebuild the original Penn station from scratch? I really wish that’d happen but I doubt it does. I believe they just broke ground on the current Penn station renovation/expansion, no?

Have you seen the proposal or rebuild the original Penn station from scratch? I really wish that’d happen but I doubt it does. I believe they just broke ground on the current Penn station renovation/expansion, no?

We should create a similar proposal to rebuild the Baum building and the Criterion.

Not possible in their former locations, but I'm totally down for such a thing on some empty or low-density lots.

This ain't hard. Tell the Thunder we'll give them the full Myriad site, the full Paycom site, add that to their Rehco blocks (maybe even throw in the Myriad Gardens site) and get back to us with what kinda public/private development they want. I bet they can come up with a complex that can keep the Thunder rolling in dough and the center city cranking.

. (Same reason it will not go just West of Paycom center now as it would cause Harvey to close which is something OKC has said they will not do)


do you have a link to this statement ... because when the CC was going on this spot they were 100% in favor of closing Harvey

I will look for where this was discussed but the City is wanting to keep this open as a connection between Myraid Gardens and SP.

I’m just riffing here - not relying on “my gut” - but an attached theater and/or esports venue would each make a certain amount of sense for inclusion into an entertainment-themed mixed use development. Over the past decade OKC has developed a wealth of live music venues, but one of the remaining types that we lack to support each phase of an artist’s career arc is the ~5K-8K theater type venue. This could be nestled pretty seamlessly with a new arena (especially on a site as generous as Prairie Surf) and could take advantage of economy of scale, with joint facilities, infrastructure and personnel supporting both rooms at the same time.

Also…e-sports is the fastest growing sports segment in the world. A dedicated esports venue could possibly even outperform the already-announced soccer stadium. It would 100% make sense to pursue. Although if OKC leans into e-sports I’d honestly expect for that venue to land at Riversport, or perhaps, OKANA.

Esports is absolutely something we should looking at to be forward thinking on where the sports and entertainment industry is going.

do you have a link to this statement ... because when the CC was going on this spot they were 100% in favor of closing Harvey

You are misremembering.

All the conceptual plans for the convention center on that site showed the hotel to the east of Harvey and the convention on the other side (even building the main exhibit room below grade) so a linkage could be maintained between the Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park.

And then after the city couldn't acquire that property, they denied the current owners from closing Harvey and the city has recently spent a bunch of money putting in sidewalks and traffic signals along Harvey in this exact area.

Many references in city planning documents to preserving the "Harvey Spine" and that's why Devon located its rotunda where they did.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/harveyspine1.jpg

You are misremembering.

All the conceptual plans for the convention center on that site showed the hotel to the east of Harvey and the convention on the other side (even building the main exhibit room below grade) so a linkage could be maintained between the Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park.

And then after the city couldn't acquire that property, they denied the current owners from closing Harvey and the city has recently spent a bunch of money putting in sidewalks and traffic signals along Harvey in this exact area.

Many, many references in city planning documents to maintaining the "Harvey Spine" and that why Devon located its rotunda where they did.

the city had a application to planning commission to close harvey ... if i have time this afternoon i will find it ..

^^^^^^
I think you are BOTH correct. If I recall, Harvey would have been closed to vehicular traffic but would have still been open, and treated as a pedestrian spine. So, closed as a street but also not built upon.

Edit: ah, Pete edited his post to show what I was referencing.

The point being in regards to the arena, there is no way it could be built on the old Fred Jones site and preserve the Harvey Spine; unless they were to completely bury the facility.

It remains a expensive piece of land. Not actually relevant to this discussion.

It remains a expensive piece of land. Not actually relevant to this discussion.

This is a point I made very early on.

The city backed away previously (when they actively selected this location for the convention center) because they knew any eminent domain proceeding would result in a price they couldn't and wouldn't pay; and the owners refused to sell. Bob Howard never sells anything, which is why Midtown Renaissance has never built condos, only apartments.

The land has only increased in price and probably dramatically. If I were the owners, I wouldn't even swap it for the Cox Center site. Howard already owns the best piece of property in all of OKC and it's only going to get better.


We can talk about this all day long but considering the city already owns the Cox site, that location seems like a complete no-brainer.

We trade an underused parking lot for underground parking. I enjoy these thought processes.

We can talk about this all day long but considering the city already owns the Cox site, that location seems like a complete no-brainer.

It's really hard to beat the cost advantages that already owned land provides, especially when the alternative would be at least tens of millions. The same public money investment can build a better arena/entertainment complex if we build it on the Cox site.

It's not just the cost savings, although they would be massive.

It's already having a great property completely under your control. No legal battles, no delays.

They could start planning the arena for that site today with full confidence that's where it will be located.


Remember, the city sold the Santa Fe Parking Garage to Continental and BancFirst precisely because those businesses knew the Cox parking was likely to go away. Now that deal is done, the site can be whatever the city wants it to be without disrupting anything downtown.

I'm sure they will look at several different sites but I'll be very shocked if the new arena doesn't end up on the old Cox site.

And personally, I hope that's exactly what happens.

Me 2!

I could get very excited about a plan for the old Cox site that would include a world-class arena with entertainment areas facing the Myriad Gardens and Bricktown.

I really think this would take downtown to the next level and do the best job of leveraging the huge investment already made there as well as drive more people to the businesses that have already opened in the core.

Besides all of that, it's a perfect location to take advantage of all the hotels already built along with the Dream Hotels planned just to the south and east. And it's very possible this Dream development is moving forward because they expect the Cox site to win out.

This graphic shows all the hotels in green.

I really like the way the Cox site could be used to drive more people to and from Bricktown, a district that is still vastly underdeveloped IMO.

If the city is going to spend a bunch of public money, I'd much rather it be to locate the MAPS4 stadium on the old Producers Co-op site. We really need to concentrate all our investment as much as possible to build critical urban mass.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/downtownhotels072822a.jpg

Not to mention there is streetcar access on the north side that will take people back into bricktown after a game

Excellent point on the hotels, Pete. There's also the Colcord. Which puts the number of hotels literally right across the street from the Cox site at four, not including the Dream Hotels that are maybe half a block further due to the railroad tracks. There's also the possibility of further hotel development on the current Paycom Center site as well as alongside the new arena.

Another bonus of the Cox site is it puts the arena two blocks closer to the CBD which could use some more activity after 5pm.

My only issue with the Cox sight is if the OKC metro is going to build a real multi-modal station, it would make the most sense for it to be to the west of the Santa Fe Train Station. That is, unless, it would be built in with the new arena and surrounding areas. That would be a next level development for OKC, for sure. New arena, hotel/condos and the new train station.

Other than that, I like the Cox site as it makes it cheaper since it is already city owned land.

My only issue with the Cox sight is if the OKC metro is going to build a real multi-modal station, it would make the most sense for it to be to the west of the Santa Fe Train Station. That is, unless, it would be built in with the new arena and surrounding areas. That would be a next level development for OKC, for sure. New arena, hotel/condos and the new train station.

The conceptual plans for a multi-modal facility showed the Santa Fe Station and the areas north, south and east/southeast as the optimal sites.

It was all east of EK Gaylord.

My only issue with the Cox sight is if the OKC metro is going to build a real multi-modal station, it would make the most sense for it to be to the west of the Santa Fe Train Station. That is, unless, it would be built in with the new arena and surrounding areas. That would be a next level development for OKC, for sure. New arena, hotel/condos and the new train station.

Other than that, I like the Cox site as it makes it cheaper since it is already city owned land.

the multi modal station plan for the Sante Fe site is good for over 50 years

Is this my way to become the skywalk troll?

Realize the 4 square block site would be more than ample space for the new arena. Catch22's illustration below comparing the Chase Center on that site is an excellent example.

https://i.gyazo.com/65ea83a25dc76b406bd8fc7a8f482f28.png

Underground parking for 950 spaces already available on city-owned land. OKC could build an arena comparable to the Chase
Center for ($415 million - $516 million max) less than half the $1.4 paid for the San Francisco's arena. Factored (bold) in a 35.6 % inflation for building materials & labor.

https://images.ctfassets.net/0lzgl3qjkmm1/2WpdE5BvhqdsYpFZI9PugM/1d9974e3410ed0ec749d886e0dfc04c6/Web-Hero-Chase-Center-tab.jpg
Exterior has a touch of Tulsa's BOK Center to it.
https://i.insider.com/5d669c2b2e22af0d8735d846?width=1000&format=jpeg&auto=webp
Two layers of rotating advertising rings...
A total of 900,000 square feet with: 44 luxury suites, 60 theater boxes, 18,084 NBA basketball capacity (Not equipped for NHL Ice Hockey).

https://images.ctfassets.net/0lzgl3qjkmm1/4LhXznrcndiZWyIN6A7g4B/00f88dc70282b7f35322aa8c7f73bb23/contained-club-desktop.jpg
The Club Suites offer a range of seating types from a large communal table for dining or hosting meetings, a built-in sectional to lounge, along with high-top tables and balcony seating with views to the court.

https://images.ctfassets.net/0lzgl3qjkmm1/2DYBPtl79v4ooTUuRkDLuN/1e33b866d41c2a1e92313f14e3b918ed/contained-tb-desktop.jpg
60 Tanduay Theater Boxes (4 seats each)

Excellent point on the hotels, Pete. There's also the Colcord. Which puts the number of hotels literally right across the street from the Cox site at four, not including the Dream Hotels that are maybe half a block further due to the railroad tracks. There's also the possibility of further hotel development on the current Paycom Center site as well as alongside the new arena.

Another bonus of the Cox site is it puts the arena two blocks closer to the CBD which could use some more activity after 5pm.

The Skirvin is also not indicated in green there.

Here's an updated graphic showing the Cox site and the surrounding hotels:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/downtownhotels072822b.jpg

If we could build something comparable to Tulsa BOK Center interior configuration with 1,000 more seats:


https://bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com/tulsaworld.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/0/7d/07d6ef8b-dcc5-5585-b451-1b7572b68571/524caf95733c6.image.jpg

Tulsa's NBA basketball configuration.

A new arena on the Cox--Myriad Convention Center site (Basketball: 18,839. Hockey option: 18,096)
50 luxury suites, each with fifteen 22-inch seats and 30 theater boxes (4 seats each), 18,343 fixed
seats 22-inch with cup holders. Configure the luxury boxes & theater seats in the middle with double
rotating adverting rings. Keep 'Loud City' in the upper deck above the luxury/theater suites; premium seats
on lower level below the luxury-theater boxes.

Exterior: Use something that complements the main skyscrapers (Devon, BOK Park Plaza, BancFirst & First National towers)

I'm warming up ever so slightly to the Cox site because I think it would give probably 100+ days in a year where a good chunk of people would consider utilizing a N/S commuter line. If people could jump on that line from park and rides in Norman/Edmond to go to games and concerts it would incentivize people to utilize public transit just through exposure.

We have four years to begin working on the configuration and design; use some of that $70 million (paused) in MAPS 4 for consulting fees--see what that price tag might look like. Sales tax collections in OKC are ahead by about 7%.

Yes skywalks would be ideal just about in any situation. Hopefully those are included with a new arena.

Don't worry, your title as the Skywalk King remains intact.

It is used about 100 nights a year. Can't force concerts or events to come here. OKC has a guaranteed 41 dates a year, with 18,000 people each night. Guaranteed. But, OKC can't force concert promoters to bring a concert here. So it is used as the market allows. The acoustics being garbage in there don't help OKC's case for more big-name concerts. Notice no rock or metal shows come in (not everyone's cup of team, but more inclined to go to arenas with good acoustics).

With changes in the music industry in the last twenty years, is there even as many big names that even have the demand for ~20,000 seat arenas on tours as their was 2000-ish?

If rock gods die we can listen to music.

The conceptual plans for a multi-modal facility showed the Santa Fe Station and the areas north, south and east/southeast as the optimal sites.

It was all east of EK Gaylord.

You're correct, but those same conceptual plans (if memory serves) heavily favored building a parking garage and bus terminal on the land that will now be used for the Dream Hotels project. There is precious little room between EK Gaylord and the railroad viaduct for further development - and anything east of the viaduct loses visibility from the main hall of Santa Fe Station, making it harder and more confusing for those using the facility to find their way around - especially if our commuter rail and expanded passenger rail ambitions actually come to pass. If we're redeveloping the Cox superblock for an arena project, it makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways to make sure our rail transit hub has everything necessary to ensure success in the immediate vicinity. If we're still following the same conceptual ideas from 2007, that should include structured parking (shared with the arena, naturally) and an intercity bus terminal that are both easily visible and accessible from the front door of Santa Fe Station. I've been playing with scale mockups and even with a larger arena on the Cox block - I threw T-Mobile Arena in Vegas on there for grins - there's still plenty of room for a parking garage the size of the new Convention Center Parking Garage, a second building of similar size (hotel/retail/residential/etc), and a large pedestrian plaza around the Arena. And on top of all that, I agree with the idea that having the arena right here would help build in incentive for Oklahomans to try the commuter rail line once built, since the arena would be right there on the doorstep of the station.

I originally thought the former Ford site would be better for the new arena... but I'm really coming around to the idea of putting it on the Cox block.

New NBA & NHL arenas built since 2010:


$1.15 billion Climate Pledge Arena IH-17,151, B-18,300, (2020)--Seattle
$1.4 billion Chase Center B-18,064, (2019)---San Francisco
$524 million Fiserv Forum B-17,385, IH-15,178, (2018)---Milwaukee
$863 million Little Caesars Arena B-20,33, IH 19,515, (2017)---Detroit
$534.6 million Golden 1 Center B-17,608, (2016)---Sacramento
$375 million T-Mobile Arena B-18,000, IH-17,500 (2016)--Las Vegas
$480 million Rogers Place IH-18,500, B-19,500 (2016)--Edmonton
$1.0 billion Barclays Center B-17,732, IH-15,795 (2012)—Brooklyn
$480 million Amway Center B-18,846, IH-17,353 (2010)—Orlando
$321 million PPG Paints Arena IH-18,387, B-19,000, (2010)---Pittsburgh


If any arenas were omitted, please add to this list.

.

You're correct, but those same conceptual plans (if memory serves) heavily favored building a parking garage and bus terminal on the land that will now be used for the Dream Hotels project. There is precious little room between EK Gaylord and the railroad viaduct for further development - and anything east of the viaduct loses visibility from the main hall of Santa Fe Station, making it harder and more confusing for those using the facility to find their way around - especially if our commuter rail and expanded passenger rail ambitions actually come to pass. If we're redeveloping the Cox superblock for an arena project, it makes a lot of sense in a lot of ways to make sure our rail transit hub has everything necessary to ensure success in the immediate vicinity. If we're still following the same conceptual ideas from 2007, that should include structured parking (shared with the arena, naturally) and an intercity bus terminal that are both easily visible and accessible from the front door of Santa Fe Station. I've been playing with scale mockups and even with a larger arena on the Cox block - I threw T-Mobile Arena in Vegas on there for grins - there's still plenty of room for a parking garage the size of the new Convention Center Parking Garage, a second building of similar size (hotel/retail/residential/etc), and a large pedestrian plaza around the Arena. And on top of all that, I agree with the idea that having the arena right here would help build in incentive for Oklahomans to try the commuter rail line once built, since the arena would be right there on the doorstep of the station.

I originally thought the former Ford site would be better for the new arena... but I'm really coming around to the idea of putting it on the Cox block.

A very expensive, but completely doable (and accomplished elsewhere) solution would be to construct a parking garage over the viaduct. The viaduct really isn’t that wide so spanning it wouldn’t be an engineering challenge. It would just be expensive. It would have to include some height to allow for BNSF to get through with their high/wide trains. Mainly their double stack container trains.

A very narrow (would have to go way taller probably) parking garage could be built on the north western section of that station property.

I think the Santa Fe site despite its size constraints has plenty of room for OKC’s future needs so long as creative solutions are sought.

We will build the monorail from the airport to the convention Center. It will go underground at the Oklahoma River. Part of the downtown aquarium. There will be sharks. Do you know that sharks have to move to breathe?And we should be talking to Space X about adding a launch pad!!!

Those gangsters from Burns Flat might give you a nose job.

Those gangsters from Burns Flat might give you a nose job.

Then I might have to swim through water to breathe!

Here's an updated graphic showing the Cox site and the surrounding hotels:

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/downtownhotels072822b.jpg

You left off the Fairfield Inn at SW4th and Shields

There are so many missing pieces for a new arena proposal; hopefully we'll know more starting in October 2022 when the city and the ownership group has had a change to get together to exchange ideas.

The million $ question: Will there be a proposed arena comparable to Las Vegas' T-Mobile Arena's $375 million or something on the higher scale of Detroit's T-Mobile Arena's $862.9 million price tag or something in between.


.

Group Announces Plan to Build New Arena in Las Vegas, Will Be Ready if NBA Decides to Expand

CEO of Oak View Group Tim Leiweke announced Wednesday during an interview with CNBC that his group has purchased 25 acres of land in Las Vegas to build a $3 billion sports and entertainment district that will include a 20,000-seat arena. With his announcement, he made it clear that if the NBA ever wanted to have a franchise in Sin City, the new venue could serve as its home.

SI link: https://www.si.com/nba/2022/03/30/las-vegas-nba-arena-rumors-sports-entertainment-district-oak-view-group

.

Can they not use the arena where the hockey team plays?

Can they not use the arena where the hockey team plays?

You would think so, it seats 18,000 for basketball and 17,500 for Ice Hockey.

They still use the Thomas & Mack Center for the NFR.