You'd think it'd have to be VERY soon. Only like two months until the season starts.

Having grown up in Tulsa and lived in OKC. 99.9% of people in both cities don't denigrate the other city in the ways people discuss here. Honestly, the thing that keeps it going is these threads where people keep claiming it's happening...

Having grown up in Tulsa and lived in OKC. 99.9% of people in both cities don't denigrate the other city in the ways people discuss here. Honestly, the thing that keeps it going is these threads where people keep claiming it's happening...

But, of those 99.9%, how many want the other city to succeed at a greater level than their own? That is why I hate that the BOK gets such good concerts.

Paycom Center opened in 2002; BOK Center opened in 2008:

Recall during the span of 20002 - 2008 prior to the arrival of the NBA and the opening of the BOK Center; Oklahoma City was getting a lot of good reviews as a concert venue.

Prince brings funk to town (Published: Wed, April 7, 2004 12:00 AM): https://www.oklahoman.com/article/1213612/prince-brings-funk-to-town

Other headliners in 2004: Eric Clapton, Van Halen, Rod Stewart & George Strait. These concerts were too big for Civic Center Music Hall & State Fair Arena.

Ford Center, Oklahoma City (US): https://www.myconcertarchive.com/en/venue?id=1528

Have no problem driving to Tulsa for concerts. Tulsa's arena primary has become a good concert venue.

What if the NHL decided it wanted to enter the Tulsa market. BOK Center seats 17,096 for ice hockey. Tulsa & Oklahoma City combined would be considered one TV market boasting 1,308,320 TV households (OKC 755,340/Tulsa 552,980). What would happen to those concerts if an NHL franchise occupied the Tulsa BOK Center.

Can you imagine the NBA in OKC and the NHL in TUL.

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But, of those 99.9%, how many want the other city to succeed at a greater level than their own? That is why I hate that the BOK gets such good concerts.


Interesting you mentioned that:

OKC's plans for a new convention center creates worries of greater competition for Tulsa: https://tulsaworld.com/business/okcs-plans-for-a-new-convention-center-creates-worries-of-greater-competition-for-tulsa/article_7f762e45-a0bc-5db1-aa5e-ee678a5c9970.html

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One thing I’ve noticed is Tulsa emulates a lot of what OKC does. We build an arena and they build a fancier one. We build a grand park and surprise the Gathering Place is announced. They rip off maps with Tulsa vision. I’m sure there are other examples. I mean good for them but I’ve certainly felt the attitude tulsans have about OKC. You can speak without words and it says a lot. I’ve been up to Tulsa a couple times in the last several months and did not get that exciting, thriving city feel I get in OKC. To me that’s the biggest problem.

Having grown up in Tulsa and lived in OKC. 99.9% of people in both cities don't denigrate the other city in the ways people discuss here. Honestly, the thing that keeps it going is these threads where people keep claiming it's happening...

Could be, but my personal experience tells me otherwise. Maybe I've just been interacting with the 0.1%.

Having grown up in Tulsa and lived in OKC. 99.9% of people in both cities don't denigrate the other city in the ways people discuss here. Honestly, the thing that keeps it going is these threads where people keep claiming it's happening...

i live here .. my wife's family is from there ..... and yes people in OKC don't talk down about tulsa ... (or really even care about tulsa) but the opposite is not true and the fact that OKC people don't really care about tulsa pisses them off even more ..

A dedicated “OKC vs Tulsa” thread would be really entertaining for me. This stuff replaces the Oilers/Blazers rivalry of old.

A dedicated “OKC vs Tulsa” thread would be really entertaining for me. This stuff replaces the Oilers/Blazers rivalry of old.

I'm working on getting all the numbers and metrics between Tulsa and OKC and starting a new thread.

A dedicated “OKC vs Tulsa” thread would be really entertaining for me. This stuff replaces the Oilers/Blazers rivalry of old.

That would be interesting. IMO it would blow this forum in 10 different directions--5 for each city.

Competition is good. Plutonic Panda mentioned how Tulsa is trying to keep up with Oklahoma City--this became more noticeable after the construction of the Bricktown Canal and the Oklahoma City downtown arena. Tulsa had outpaced OKC prior to MAPS...

Just make an extensive amenity list and have two columns, one for OKC and one for Tulsa and go down the list and check the boxes for an empirical solution?

But, of those 99.9%, how many want the other city to succeed at a greater level than their own? That is why I hate that the BOK gets such good concerts.

Dude, Tulsa is not succeeding at any significantly greater level than OKC when it comes to touring music. I'm not sure what your idea of "such good concerts" is, but many big money/big production shows have been been booked in OKC's arena. And so have they at the BOK center. Just look at past bookings and the idea that OKC is somehow inferior to Tulsa in arena bookings in the last ten years is a weird argument to make, especially when you put in it context of other markets.

At the end of the day, though, you need to realize that Tulsa is not the "other city" when it comes to trying book a show that will sell 15k to 20k tickets in a night on a tour. They really are the same market, or, at least, overlapping markets in that context.

I used to go to shows at Cain's all the time, because it has booked above it's weight class for a long long time. It's not an impressive venue, but it sounds good (especially on stage) and has a great history. People want to play it and understandably. And I will jump at any chance to go there to see a band I like. But as far as comparing arenas between the two markets, it's as silly as when people were comparing convenience store within the two markets.

I'm working on getting all the numbers and metrics between Tulsa and OKC and starting a new thread.

No need for a new thread. This has been discussed ad infinitum previously in at least a couple of other threads.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=37659

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=25549

No need for a new thread. This has been discussed ad infinitum previously in at least a couple of previous threads.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=37659

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=25549
Eh, a new thread would be interesting.

Eh, a new thread would be interesting.

No more interesting than continuing to use the other threads. It would just be a continuing rehash of the same viewpoints. Many people aren't aware of the other threads so feel a need to start a new one.

No need for a new thread. This has been discussed ad infinitum previously in at least a couple of other threads.

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=37659

https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=25549

I should have added an /s to my original comment.

I should have added an /s to my original comment.

Everyone has their own idea about what they would prefer but having an omnibus thread for all aspects of OKC vs. Tulsa would be too cumbersome for me. I have little to no interest in the topic of concerts but am more interested in things like developments, infrastructure, and transportation. I would have to wade through a lot of things to find what I would want to look at. When talking about concerts, other than the mention of specific concerts, I saw really no new ideas or opinions mentioned in this thread that haven't been mentioned multiple times previously.

OKC/Tulsa operates as a single market in the minds of those outside of OK. The sooner those of us in OK realize that there will be no need for an “OKC vs Tulsa” thread because we want each other to succeed because we are all one big market. 2.4M has a lot more national importance than singular 1.4M and 1M metros.

One thing I’ve noticed is Tulsa emulates a lot of what OKC does. We build an arena and they build a fancier one. We build a grand park and surprise the Gathering Place is announced. They rip off maps with Tulsa vision. I’m sure there are other examples. I mean good for them but I’ve certainly felt the attitude tulsans have about OKC. You can speak without words and it says a lot. I’ve been up to Tulsa a couple times in the last several months and did not get that exciting, thriving city feel I get in OKC. To me that’s the biggest problem.

Tulsa has a couple of pockets that are extremely nice with a lot of old money (i.e., Southern Hills, Utica Square, Woodward Park, etc.), but the overall feel and polish of the city, at large, is way below OKC's feel. It's just not on the same growth trajectory. At all.

Plus, the entry to the west side of the city is marred by the Holly Frontier refinery and other unsightly industrial land uses. Tulsa would do well to hide those uses to the extent that they can.

Dude, Tulsa is not succeeding at any significantly greater level than OKC when it comes to touring music. I'm not sure what your idea of "such good concerts" is, but many big money/big production shows have been been booked in OKC's arena. And so have they at the BOK center. Just look at past bookings and the idea that OKC is somehow inferior to Tulsa in arena bookings in the last ten years is a weird argument to make, especially when you put in it context of other markets.

At the end of the day, though, you need to realize that Tulsa is not the "other city" when it comes to trying book a show that will sell 15k to 20k tickets in a night on a tour. They really are the same market, or, at least, overlapping markets in that context.

I used to go to shows at Cain's all the time, because it has booked above it's weight class for a long long time. It's not an impressive venue, but it sounds good (especially on stage) and has a great history. People want to play it and understandably. And I will jump at any chance to go there to see a band I like. But as far as comparing arenas between the two markets, it's as silly as when people were comparing convenience store within the two markets.

this is what I was saying, this is the Oklahoma market with OKC and Tulsa (and other areas) considered one market. OKC is obviously the biggest city but Tulsa is seen as an extension.

this is what I was saying, this is the Oklahoma market with OKC and Tulsa (and other areas) considered one market. OKC is obviously the biggest city but Tulsa is seen as an extension.

You're correct Hot Rod. Oklahoma City-Tulsa televises as one TV sports market. Bally Sports (Replaced Fox Sports Oklahoma) televises Thunder games on Cox Cable Channel 37; IIRC it's local ABC affiliate in Tulsa. The two markets have a combined TV households for 2021-22 market servicing 1,308,320 (OKC 755,340/TUL 552,980).

Nielsen DMA Rankings 2021: https://mediatracks.com/resources/nielsen-dma-rankings-2021/

Back in 1997 when OKC applied for NHL expansion, Norick & Bennett made a push that both cities were considered one NHL TV market. The OKC NHL expansion was backed by Norick, Bennett & the Mathis Brothers.

The announcement of the expansion was to be revealed on a Monday. Norick was advised by the NHL chairman of the expansion committee to get a press release ready (and so was Columbus expansion group) on Friday to be released on the following Monday if OKC or Columbus, one would be awarded a franchise.

All of a sudden Columbus got solid financial backing from Nation Wide Insurance who worked a deal worth millions with a naming rights agreement for an NHL arena to be built in Columbus. A city with a much larger MSA than OKC and a larger TV household audience than OKC. The NHL didn't completely accept OKC-TUL as a combined TV sports market in the mid 90s.

Oklahoma City officials were told that the NHL didn't believe an NHL arena could be built on a budget of $89 million--passed by MAPS extension in 1993-94 for the NHL arena in downtown OKC.

Columbus was awarded the final franchise. The 4 team expansion included Nashville (1998-99), Atlanta (1999-20) , St. Paul-Minneapolis & Columbus (2000-01).

OKC would probably be an NHL member today if Columbus weren't awarded that final franchise. The Hartford Whalers (WHA merger with NHL) relocated to Raleigh in 1997-98

N.H.L. Names 4 Cities For Its New Franchises: https://www.nytimes.com/1997/06/18/sports/nhl-names-4-cities-for-its-new-franchises.html

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If only the NHL knew 89 million was just the first phase of a ~300M arena (probably doing the math wrong but you get the point)

If only the NHL knew 89 million was just the first phase of a ~300M arena (probably doing the math wrong but you get the point)

Correct Shawnw:

Subsequent MAPS passed MAPS for Kids extension added $90 million to the arena and MAPS 4 will add $104 million and $11 million to the Thunder practice facility renovation that cost $10 million to build initially in 2009-10. Roughly $300 million included $8 million for WiFi and High Tech upgrades in 2018 passed in the GO-Bonds 2017 package.

All new seats are currently being replaced in the new Paycom Center.

I believe that if OKC's first major league sports franchise had been an NHL franchise our city and state would have supported it much like the NBA today.

Honestly, NBA is much better if I have to pick between the two. NBA is much more international.

Perhaps when OKC gets to 2m we could pursue another league.

Saw a crane rolling up to the arena today. Perhaps logo and lighting is about to start going up as expected prior to the season starting in just a few weeks

Definitely glad we ended up with NBA vs NHL (though wouldn't mind NHL), just one of those hindsight 20/20 things...

Probably a blessing in disguise we weren't awarded that 4th NHL franchise. Although the arena's original specifications were for hockey, many concerns about configuration and high dollar seating broiled into controversy.

Upon careful redesign and planning to accommodate the NBA, the arena's capacity settled at 18,203 and 15,152 for NHL Hockey; far below an envisioned original plans for a 19,000+ seat arena.

NBA arena seating adjustments:


Years Capacity
2002–2006 - 19,163

Years Capacity
2006–2008 - 19,164

Years Capacity
2008–2009 - 19,136

Years Capacity
2009–present - 18,203

Potential regional NHL rivals would have included Dallas, Colorado & St. Louis.
Potential regional NBA rivals are Dallas, Denver, Houston, Memphis, New Orleans & San Antonio.

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Somewhere in the multiverse, the NHL Oklahoma City RedHawks are playing in the United Center arena....

Honestly, NBA is much better if I have to pick between the two. NBA is much more international.

Perhaps when OKC gets to 2m we could pursue another league.

NO Doubt, There is a reason NHL is ranked 4th or 5th pro league. NHL is not even close to NBA and other leagues.

Having grown up in Tulsa and lived in OKC. 99.9% of people in both cities don't denigrate the other city in the ways people discuss here. Honestly, the thing that keeps it going is these threads where people keep claiming it's happening...

For the record, it isn't a ton of people in Tulsa but at least among young professionals its more like 60-75% who constantly make comments like that. From my conversations with Pete, I know he's experiences similar things when visiting. You'd be surprised how many "Oh, I hate OKC" or "I really don't like OKC" or "It's so much more spread out, I don't like it as much and wouldn't want to live there" comments I've gotten since moving to Tulsa from the 21-40 year old crowd that grew up in or around Tulsa. All it takes is mentioning I'm from OKC/Edmond and the negativity flows lol. I got the same type of responses when I frequently visited Tulsa in the past. It seems like an inferiority complex. Though I will say that most of the people I've known from Tulsa who moved to OKC still liked Tulsa better and plan/or actually did move back at some point. Tulsans just generally like Tulsa better and think a lot more of it than anywhere else.

All of that to say...it isn't just threads keeping that sentiment alive. It's out there and more common that you think and it's definitely one sided. I almost never hear anyone from OKC comparing it to Tulsa at all.

i live here .. my wife's family is from there ..... and yes people in OKC don't talk down about tulsa ... (or really even care about tulsa) but the opposite is not true and the fact that OKC people don't really care about tulsa pisses them off even more ..

LOL this is very accurate.

Tulsa is to OKC what OSU is to OU, a friendly in state rival that means way more to one side than the other.

Tulsa has a couple of pockets that are extremely nice with a lot of old money (i.e., Southern Hills, Utica Square, Woodward Park, etc.), but the overall feel and polish of the city, at large, is way below OKC's feel. It's just not on the same growth trajectory. At all.

Plus, the entry to the west side of the city is marred by the Holly Frontier refinery and other unsightly industrial land uses. Tulsa would do well to hide those uses to the extent that they can.

Meh, drive into OKC on I-40 from either direction or I-35 from the south. There isn't anything overly attractive about those views either. At least the Producers Co-Op is gone which has improved it. Just like driving into OKC from the North or NE, driving into Tulsa from the N, NW, SE, and E is much more visually appealing.

Somewhere in the multiverse, the NHL Oklahoma City RedHawks are playing in the United Center arena....

Ha! I've thought the same thing.

https://twitter.com/okcthunder/status/1441139359474864132?s=20

17115 17116

For the record, it isn't a ton of people in Tulsa but at least among young professionals its more like 60-75% who constantly make comments like that. From my conversations with Pete, I know he's experiences similar things when visiting. You'd be surprised how many "Oh, I hate OKC" or "I really don't like OKC" or "It's so much more spread out, I don't like it as much and wouldn't want to live there" comments I've gotten since moving to Tulsa from the 21-40 year old crowd that grew up in or around Tulsa. All it takes is mentioning I'm from OKC/Edmond and the negativity flows lol. I got the same type of responses when I frequently visited Tulsa in the past. It seems like an inferiority complex. Though I will say that most of the people I've known from Tulsa who moved to OKC still liked Tulsa better and plan/or actually did move back at some point. Tulsans just generally like Tulsa better and think a lot more of it than anywhere else.

All of that to say...it isn't just threads keeping that sentiment alive. It's out there and more common that you think and it's definitely one sided. I almost never hear anyone from OKC comparing it to Tulsa at all.

I remember 20+ years ago when the tables seemed flipped, and I wasn't even a teenager. Blazers vs. Oilers games were crazy. Tulsa got way more entertainment. You could just kind of tell that we were the lesser city at that time and I feel like many people from OKC had complexes about that. If you have any hometown pride, it's hard not to get caught up in the debate about you vs your interstate rival (see: Texas, Dallas and Texas, Houston).

For the record, it isn't a ton of people in Tulsa but at least among young professionals its more like 60-75% who constantly make comments like that. From my conversations with Pete, I know he's experiences similar things when visiting. You'd be surprised how many "Oh, I hate OKC" or "I really don't like OKC" or "It's so much more spread out, I don't like it as much and wouldn't want to live there" comments I've gotten since moving to Tulsa from the 21-40 year old crowd that grew up in or around Tulsa. All it takes is mentioning I'm from OKC/Edmond and the negativity flows lol. I got the same type of responses when I frequently visited Tulsa in the past. It seems like an inferiority complex. Though I will say that most of the people I've known from Tulsa who moved to OKC still liked Tulsa better and plan/or actually did move back at some point. Tulsans just generally like Tulsa better and think a lot more of it than anywhere else.

All of that to say...it isn't just threads keeping that sentiment alive. It's out there and more common that you think and it's definitely one sided. I almost never hear anyone from OKC comparing it to Tulsa at all.

Count me as one of the few. Lived in Tulsa until I went to OU for undergrad, and then never looked back. I also don't care to discuss it either.

For the record, it isn't a ton of people in Tulsa but at least among young professionals its more like 60-75% who constantly make comments like that. From my conversations with Pete, I know he's experiences similar things when visiting. You'd be surprised how many "Oh, I hate OKC" or "I really don't like OKC" or "It's so much more spread out, I don't like it as much and wouldn't want to live there" comments I've gotten since moving to Tulsa from the 21-40 year old crowd that grew up in or around Tulsa. All it takes is mentioning I'm from OKC/Edmond and the negativity flows lol. I got the same type of responses when I frequently visited Tulsa in the past. It seems like an inferiority complex. Though I will say that most of the people I've known from Tulsa who moved to OKC still liked Tulsa better and plan/or actually did move back at some point. Tulsans just generally like Tulsa better and think a lot more of it than anywhere else.

All of that to say...it isn't just threads keeping that sentiment alive. It's out there and more common that you think and it's definitely one sided. I almost never hear anyone from OKC comparing it to Tulsa at all.

Are you sure? There are 3 full pages of people from OKC comparing the two cities on a random thread about the Paycom Center. It seems like a lot of people in OKC care about what's going on up the turnpike..

3 full pages ........ does not represent OKC, it represents OKCTalk.

So given your attempted correlation - it seems like a lot of people ON OKCTALK care about what's going on up the turnpike ...

which would be accurate observation.

And oh by the way, nobody in those 3 pages put Tulsa down or trumped OKC up at Tulsa's expense the way that Tulsan's love to do against OKC beit online or in-person.

Are you sure? There are 3 full pages of people from OKC comparing the two cities on a random thread about the Paycom Center. It seems like a lot of people in OKC care about what's going on up the turnpike..

OKC folks spend more time talking about how much Tulsans talk about them than Tulsans actually talk about OKC. OKCTalk is evidence of it.

Competition between our two largest cities will always exist--separated by a 91 mile turnpike.

OKC built the downtown arena--largest of the original MAPS projects for $89 million (opened in 2002); Tulsa looked at a big sister and immediately went to the drawing board in 2005.

MAPS For Kids 2008 extension added $90 million to seal the NBA Supersonics' relocation that year; $179 million arena investment produced Oklahoma's first major league franchise.

Tulsa responded with the $196 million downtown BOK Center ($178 million public, $18 million private funds) opened in 2008.

Good competitiveness between both cities resulted in many improvements to their CBDs and inner cores. Oklahoma City uses MAPS initiatives and Tulsa Vision 2025; which city will make the next bold move. Will it be an addition of a huge skyscraper to impact the skyline or a major corporate relocation adding thousands of high paying jobs.

OKC folks spend more time talking about how much Tulsans talk about them than Tulsans actually talk about OKC. OKCTalk is evidence of it.

lol, you clearly don’t live in Tulsa and associate with many young professionals here.

Are you sure? There are 3 full pages of people from OKC comparing the two cities on a random thread about the Paycom Center. It seems like a lot of people in OKC care about what's going on up the turnpike..

If there was anywhere near an equivalent forum in Tulsa that Tulsans actually used…it would happen there too. TulsaNow is awful and little to no one uses it (at least not near the same size and demographics that use OKCTalk).

Count me as one of the few. Lived in Tulsa until I went to OU for undergrad, and then never looked back. I also don't care to discuss it either.

Glad to hear that someone is in that camp!

If there was anywhere near an equivalent forum in Tulsa that Tulsans actually used…it would happen there too. TulsaNow is awful and little to no one uses it (at least not near the same size and demographics that use OKCTalk).

I’ve talked to Pete before about TulsaTalk or the equivalent of OKCTalk focusing on metro Tulsa. Seems like there would be a market for it but would need a local presence and he has been busy.

OKC folks spend more time talking about how much Tulsans talk about them than Tulsans actually talk about OKC. OKCTalk is evidence of it.

Haha, no. Not even close to being accurate, my Man.

I came here thinking there was new news on the paycom center. My bad.

This ^^^^^

Tool is going to BOK and not Paycom Center. Must be some Thunder games during that leg of the tour

I came here thinking there was new news on the paycom center. My bad.

Update: People attending events in the PayCom Center will not be paying attention to main events as they incessantly argue with each other about Tulsa vs. OKC.

I’ve talked to Pete before about TulsaTalk or the equivalent of OKCTalk focusing on metro Tulsa. Seems like there would be a market for it but would need a local presence and he has been busy.

Yes, we've talked about it at length more than a few times over the years as well and while he owns the name and admittedly is interested in doing it at some point, he's also told me he's been too slammed to start the process...which, given the detail and depth of what this site has become, is totally understandable. I'll dm you.

I came here thinking there was new news on the paycom center. My bad.

You didn't hear that its been moved to Tulsa?

I will have to say the BOK center in Tulsa is more attractive and iconic than "Paycom center. They did not build it on the cheap like OKC did with their arena.

I will have to say the BOK center in Tulsa is more attractive and iconic than "Paycom center. They did not build it on the cheap like OKC did with their arena.

I don't disagree that the aesthetic of the BOK is nicer. However, also remember that the Ford/Peak/Pay didn't use to look so "let's add some crap here and here". That happened BECAUSE it was successful and was able to grow to meet the new needs. BOK hasn't had a need to grow because they don't have any tenants asking for that growth.

Rest assured that the next time OKC builds an arena, we aren't going to be able to get away with the low-cost option. It's gonna hurt next time.

^^^^^^^
Not to mention that OKC has mostly closed the gap with subsequent renovations. The amount spent on Paycom now roughly equals the amount spent on BOK. Plus, the initial construction of Paycom was discounted vs what was delivered due to an error in the bid, which the GC stood behind. OKC got millions of dollars in delivered value that we didn’t have to pay for.

Paycom also now has far more in the way of premium amenities than does BOK, owing to having a major league tenant and the resulting renovations required to retain them. BOK would require many millions in upgrades to permanently host such a tenant.

That said, BOK is and always will be a César Pelli, and will certainly always be more attractive architecturally. Honestly, both cities have the best fit for their existing uses.

^^^^^^^
Not to mention that OKC has mostly closed the gap with subsequent renovations. The amount spent on Paycom now roughly equals the amount spent on BOK. Plus, the initial construction of Paycom was discounted vs what was delivered due to an error in the bid, which the GC stood behind. OKC got millions of dollars in delivered value that we didn’t have to pay for.


Can you speak more to this?

^^^^^^^
Flintco Construction made a bidding error on the original build that was dramatically lower than it should have been. The company made good on the bid and ate the difference, which saved the City significantly on construction. I’m sorry, I don’t recall the estimated underbid amount, and links to Oklahoman stories that come up in search results are broken, due to their redesign.

^^^^^^^
Flintco Construction made a bidding error on the original build that was dramatically lower than it should have been. The company made good on the bid and ate the difference, which saved the City significantly on construction. I’m sorry, I don’t recall the estimated underbid amount, and links to Oklahoman stories that come up in search results are broken, due to their redesign.

Have you tried the waybacktimemachine (https://archive.org/web/)? I am not sure if they archive news websites, but there may be some versions of their website before the paywall and redesign etc.

Arena's Low Bid Astounds City Leaders

The 1999 bids:


Fincto's $66 million bid far below the budget and the nearest lowest bidder:
Dallas Clark Contractors $73.4 million
Manhattan Construction $74 million
Dallas Huber Hunt & Nichols $75.3 million

Boldt was the only contractor not to beat the engineer's estimate of $81,036,100 provided by The Benham Group.

Source Oklahoman, Steve Lackmeyer, Jack Money--Published: Fri, March 12, 1999 12:00 a.m., https://www.oklahoman.com/article/2645809/arenas-low-bid-astounds-city-leaders (https://www.oklahoman.com/articleT/2645809/arenas-low-bid-astounds-city-leaders)