Louisville would be a great NBA city. Do they have the deep pockets and corporate base to bring one to town? Humana, GE Appliance, UPS, Brown- Forman, Yum Brands (KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut) and Papa John’s are HQ’d there.

That is an impressive list, but UPS's HQ is in Atlanta. Though Louisville is their major air hub.

There use to be another forum called Thunderfans. This conversation came up about Las Vegas (5 years ago IIRC) and I stated then that Vegas once they got approved for NBA
or NHL they wouldn't stop util they secured all four leagues. Right now they have NHL, NFL and soon to have MLB. It's a matter of time and they will have NBA expansion.

What's unique about Las Vegas and Nevada is LV has a MSA population of 2,336,573 (cc: 660,929) with the state of Nevada 3,104,614. It's the tourists who will support their
big league franchises. By comparison Oklahoma City has a MSA population of 1,477,926 (cc: 702,767) with the state of Oklahoma 4,088,380.

Nevada occupies 110,572 and Oklahoma occupies 69,899 equates to 40,683 more land in Nevada. Water, Nevada 0.7 vs Oklahoma 1.9

My conclusion if Nevada can support four big league franchises in Las Vegas; then Oklahoma should be able to support two (NBA and NHL). That's
why our new arena should be equipped to support NBA and NHL. Or Tulsa should pursue an NHL franchise since their MSA population 1,044,757
exceeds 1 million (per big league franchise) and they have an arena BOK Center with a ih capacity of 17,096--truly a big league arena.

What's more unique about Tulsa, they have the corporate firms (Fortune 1000) to support another big league (NHL) franchise in Oklahoma.

My conclusion if Nevada can support four big league franchises in Las Vegas; then Oklahoma should be able to support two (NBA and NHL).

Maybe if the Casinos in OK start giving thousands of tickets to their patrons we can compare the demand between the two and look at supporting two professional teams.

As for Tulsa, there are a number of bigger and financially stronger cities for the NHL to consider.

https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2022/07/19/NOKL/26936dc0-0e49-4879-bad8-e1393b6cc7ee-photo_4.jpg?width=600&height=712&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp

Looking at the construction of what is now Paycom Center, if we build an arena with similar or more size (750k sq ft) and capacity 18,500 it will
occupy 1/2 of the 4 square block site. Anxious to see the early preliminary renderings with specs.

Also can't recall what else is proposed to be built on that site.

Maybe if the Casinos in OK start giving thousands of tickets to their patrons we can compare the demand between the two and look at supporting two professional teams.

As for Tulsa, there are a number of bigger and financially stronger cities for the NHL to consider.

Austin (2.5m), Portland (2.5m) and Virginia Beach (1.8m). Right now Austin & Virginia Beach doesn't have an NHL arena--Tulsa does. And Portland's NBA franchise has taken a hit averaging 17,240 in an arena that seats 19,411.

When you combined OKC (#47) -TUL (#61) as one market, the two metros combine for 2,522,683 with a TV viewership of 1,250,000. By comparison Salt Lake City supports NBA and NHL in the same arena with 1,267,864 MSA.

Mayor Cornett in 1996 NHL expansion derby pushed OKC-TUL as one TV market when Norick-Bennett failed to secure that final
4th franchise that went to Columbus, OH (Bluejackets).

I know the talk. I know Las Vegas is sexy and shiny. I don't think it really adds up. We are talking over 160 tourism games a year, when you figure 40 NHL, 8.5 NFL, 81 MLB and 41 NBA regular season home dates. Even for a city that gets 40 million visitors a year. there is incredible competition for the spend.
I believe there are soon to be two NBA ready arenas under construction with one that already exist. They are doing an expansion near the Rio, and they are about to build a huge hotel that will be the tallest one yet on the northern end of the strip with what it’ll probably be one of the most if not the most expensive NBA arena in the world.

My conclusion if Nevada can support four big league franchises in Las Vegas; then Oklahoma should be able to support two (NBA and NHL). That's
why our new arena should be equipped to support NBA and NHL. Or Tulsa should pursue an NHL franchise since their MSA population 1,044,757
exceeds 1 million (per big league franchise) and they have an arena BOK Center with a ih capacity of 17,096--truly a big league arena.

What's more unique about Tulsa, they have the corporate firms (Fortune 1000) to support another big league (NHL) franchise in Oklahoma.

Another day, another attempt by Laramie to bring the conversation to hockey in Oklahoma. :p

Another day, another attempt by Laramie to bring the conversation to hockey in Oklahoma. :p

Why not, this is a forum, where we engage in civil discussions.

[INDENT]
Also can't recall what else is proposed to be built on that site.

It's downtown, so I am sure at least one parking garage will be built there with it. Haha!

It's downtown, so I am sure at least one parking garage will be built there with it. Haha!

Yes, thanks for the reminder, the 600+ parking garage for sure since the site will lose those 900 slots below ground.

Louisville would be a great NBA city. Do they have the deep pockets and corporate base to bring one to town? Humana, GE Appliance, UPS, Brown- Forman, Yum Brands (KFC, Taco Bell, Pizza Hut) and Papa John’s are HQ’d there.

Brown-Forman announced their closing the Louisville cooperage earlier this week.

Why not, this is a forum, where we engage in civil discussions.

As much as I would love an ECHL franchise here, The City of Oklahoma City, affiliated powers that be, and the citizenry have firmly rejected hockey since the Thunder arrived. It's gone the way of the Fairgrounds Speedway and nothing on the horizon is going to change that.

Prairie Surf hasn't taken down or updated their website. It's not a good look on them. You would think they shift back to actively promoting Oklahoma's film industry and just be ready for when a new opportunity for a new location comes along.

They lost their CEO a year ago, and she just quit -- didn't take any other job or role. This was not long after their only real ongoing client, Tulsa King, chose to leave as soon as they could even though the show was based in the state.

Their whole business model was getting the City to pay for them to have a place for free and for the state to greatly improve their incentives. Now, they are without a facility and if they wait for the stadium district to be built, it will be years.

I said at the time I had my doubts about them and thought the city got conned.

I strongly suspect if they do come back, they will have their hands out once again.

I believe there are soon to be two NBA ready arenas under construction with one that already exist. They are doing an expansion near the Rio, and they are about to build a huge hotel that will be the tallest one yet on the northern end of the strip with what it’ll probably be one of the most if not the most expensive NBA arena in the world.

The north strip location is the old Wet-n-Wild location that belongs to former Sahara owner Paul Lowden, and has been pitched by former NBA player Jackie Robinson as an NBA arena/casino/hotel for 20 years. Some different people attached to this attempt, but it is much like our 1907 foot tall tower in lower Bricktown.

The other project is at Las Vegas Boulevard and Blue Diamond Road, and has more gravitas, because it is fronted by the Oak View Group. Tim Leiweke with OVG was mostly the face of their bringing the Climate Pledge Arena in Seattle to completion and the NHL Kraken as primary tenant. Announced in 2022, I think the project was described as "stalled" in late 2024, and Leiweke said they are not married to the location.

The Rio area has land available, but no solid projects moving forward.

T-Mobile Arena is NBA capable. It is currently the home of the NHL Vegas Golden Knights and they are the primary tenant. They control dates, signage and luxury suite rental.

Prairie Surf hasn't taken down or updated their website. It's not a good look on them. You would think they shift back to actively promoting Oklahoma's film industry and just be ready for when a new opportunity for a new location comes along.


...she just quit -- didn't take any other job or role. This was not long after their only real ongoing client, Tulsa King, chose to leave as soon as they could even though the show was based in the state.


Rachel Cannon jumping ship spoke volumes, It's a glorified PR arm for Payne & friends, with lots of empty promises about being a hub for local filmmakers/crew and a shoddy track record to back. As for what their real end goals are...more mixers?

The bulk of Tulsa King's crew was hired out-of-state, and they left for Atlanta because rebate incentives were better there––Stallone hating the weather, too. They got to host a little bit of the Twisters shoot, but acted like they oversaw the whole thing and felt responsible for its success on social media.

If they were truly interested in the industry here, they'd be busy making that happen, not rubbing elbows. If American Underdog is the apex of their work (they've shot more ads for local businesses than features), enough to proudly hang a banner outside like a report card, they're not planning to go any further than that. Their new M.O. is trade-lite programs aimed at K-12, to get the ball rolling early that PSM = Hollywood. If the Love family or venture funds don't write blank checks for a new compound in Edmond, that's all for nothing.

Even American Underdog was from a production company that had already filmed other projects in OKC long before Prairie Surf.


The new thing is to claim huge economic development numbers, then put your hand out for tons of local and state incentives.

And of course, there is never any follow-up or objective analysis of the outcomes. We never know the real return on these public investments, just tons of grandiose rhetoric from those directly benefitting, including the groups that run the economic development programs.


Just look at what a huge deal Stitt and the various state agencies made out of 'landing' Canoo. Now that they've cratered and we've already given them money, just silence from anyone that was involved on the giving side.

Similarly, where is the accounting and evaluation of everything given to Praire Surf? There never will be any.

Is OKC that much hotter than Atlanta? ABQ seems to be doing well yet dont they get hotter than OKC?

IDK, seems like a cop out for Stallone to say OKC is too hot to do his job. He's entitled to his opinion and I agree OKC is a bit hot during the summer, so couldn't they do the shoots during the spring/fall when OKC is quite pleasant? shrug

Agree about what else has been said, with the bait and switch and lack of transparency of these "investments". ..

Is OKC that much hotter than Atlanta? ABQ seems to be doing well yet dont they get hotter than OKC?

IDK, seems like a cop out for Stallone to say OKC is too hot to do his job. He's entitled to his opinion and I agree OKC is a bit hot during the summer, so couldn't they do the shoots during the spring/fall when OKC is quite pleasant? shrug

Agree about what else has been said, with the bait and switch and lack of transparency of these "investments". ..

OKC is not hotter than either of those markets for TV and film. It is doing well for a burgeoning market. But those cities have been established for a while.

The "Stallone hates the weather" thing has always been pure conjecture.

He also posted many positive things about Oklahoma but somehow those don't count. Also, 'better incentives' get thrown around but Tulsa King never really gave the state and city a chance to negotiate; they just went silent and then announced they were moving. I suspect we would have come up with at least as much if given the chance.


I've reached out to friends in TV production to try and learn the exact reasons for leaving but haven't been able to find anything. I get the strong impression there were other reasons than weather. I know for a fact they had to bring in a lot of the crew from elsewhere because we didn't have enough experienced workers. Way more expensive to bring in people, pay to house them, etc. I would think it would be far easier to find qualified locals in Atlanta.


Somebody decided one social media post from Stallone about our heat was the main reason, and that doesn't even make much sense given they moved to hot, humid Atlanta.

I didn't say OKC was a better market as I know both are well established media centers, esp Atlanta. My point was the weather argument, Atlanta is likely more humid than OKC in the summer and ABQ is likely hotter.

Thanks Pete for the analysis, does seem to be an easy conjecture to help get production out of Oklahoma.

I have family in the Atlanta area and they say there are so many trades available for the TV/Movie market that places like LA, NYC, Chicago, etc have and it just takes time to get there. I feel like there was a push for Prairie surf to partner with OCCC and other colleges to have programs where people can come and learn the trades that go with movie/TV making. Not sure if that ever worked out, but I would guess there are several in the Atlanta area that do a lot of that and it is easier to film there without having to bring those people in versus the other way around. Also, there are several multi-million square feet studios in the Atlanta area and the state of Georgia basically has an open check book for tax incentives for movies/TV.

The "Stallone hates the weather" thing has always been pure conjecture.

He also posted many positive things about Oklahoma but somehow those don't count. Also, 'better incentives' get thrown around but Tulsa King never really gave the state and city a chance to negotiate; they just went silent and then announced they were moving. I suspect we would have come up with at least as much if given the chance.


I've reached out to friends in TV production to try and learn the exact reasons for leaving but haven't been able to find anything. I get the strong impression there were other reasons than weather. I know for a fact they had to bring in a lot of the crew from elsewhere because we didn't have enough experienced workers. Way more expensive to bring in people, pay to house them, etc. I would think it would be far easier to find qualified locals in Atlanta.


Somebody decided one social media post from Stallone about our heat was the main reason, and that doesn't even make much sense given they moved to hot, humid Atlanta.

Yeah this is the reason the whole Stallone hates the weather excuse makes me laugh. Have the people suggesting this ever been to Atlanta? LOL It's miserable in the summer and I'd argue that its worse than Oklahoma.

I was curious about temps... that doesn't take into account the humidity or altitude (both can make a big difference on the way it feels (sorry, Excel doesn't copy and paste easily here).

ABQ OKC ATL
Hi Lo Rain Hi Lo Rain Hi Lo Rain
January 51 / 25 2 January 49 / 27 3 January 53 / 33 8
February 57 / 28 1 February 53 / 31 3 February 58 / 36 8
March 66 / 34 1 March 63 / 40 5 March 66 / 42 8
April 74 / 42 2 April 72 / 48 5 April 73 / 48 7
May 83 / 51 2 May 79 / 58 8 May 80 / 58 7
June 93 / 61 2 June 88 / 67 6 June 87 / 65 8
July 94 / 66 6 July 94 / 71 4 July 89 / 69 9
August 92 / 65 5 August 93 / 70 5 August 88 / 68 7
September 85 / 58 4 September 85 / 62 5 September 83 / 62 5
October 74 / 45 2 October 74 / 50 5 October 74 / 51 5
November 61 / 33 2 November 61 / 39 4 November 64 / 41 6
December 51 / 25 2 December 51 / 30 4 December 56 / 35 8

I swear we had this same conversation in another thread a while back about KC vs. OKC weather.

The answer in the data is once again - yes OKC is less comfortable (hotter) than any of those cities. Is that the reason they left? Probably not - but OKC does not have great weather, that is just facts.

https://i.imgur.com/QaddJvB.png

^

But Dallas, Austin, and Houston have absolutely miserable summers and people are flocking there, including production crews.

It's not like TK moved from here to California. It may be hotter in OKC than in Atlanta, but I've been there plenty of times and with the humidity, in some ways it's worse. At the very least, the summers are pretty comparable.

Anyway, we'll never know the reasons they left, but nothing else of significance has come since and that's pretty telling. It may be a simple matter of getting more experienced crew, but that's very much a chicken-and-egg situation.

As an ATL native, it’s called Hotlanta for a reason. I’ll take 103 in OKC over 92 in Atlanta any day. The humidity is that real and that bad

Can't wait until visible demolition starts so we can talk about other topics. lol

I mean they did pick to film OKC at that time of the year. Have they heard of method acting? The audience can get a true impression on how a mob boss would feel in Oklahoma weather. :)

^

But Dallas, Austin, and Houston have absolutely miserable summers and people are flocking there, including production crews.

It's not like TK moved from here to California. It may be hotter in OKC than in Atlanta, but I've been there plenty of times and with the humidity, in some ways it's worse. At the very least, the summers are pretty comparable.

Anyway, we'll never know the reasons they left, but nothing else of significance has come since and that's pretty telling. It may be a simple matter of getting more experienced crew, but that's very much a chicken-and-egg situation.

I agree with you, the "feels" temperature is a significant factor. Wind in OKC plays a major role with "feel". In fact, the wind to me is a larger player in OKC weather than humidity and temperature. Here is data of the wind, OKC has the strongest winds during the times you want it the least, and has the weakest winds during the times you want it the most. In regards to the Texas cities where everyone is moving to, I believe people's avoidance of harsh winter weather plays a major factor there. OKC easily has a worse winter than any of the major Texas cities.

https://i.imgur.com/nKoaBVq.png


Here is winter season comfortability. This is where Texas shines.

https://i.imgur.com/vJpNANj.png


Sorry for the off-topic posts, weather nerd side came out.

To keep on topic, I think they will require massive dust-suppresion techniques when they demo this site, especially because it will be during the windy season here ;)

. . . continued from Oklahoma City Thunder BB thread.


18,203 is a sell out for the thunder IIRC ..

Yes, that is correct. As we prepare to build a new DT arena we need to think of something multipurpose to fulfill our NBA, NCAA basketball, Rodeo, concerts and large gatherings needs.

Looking back at the 70s when we proposed the Incomparable Myriad Convention Center our original plans were to have a complete 15,000 seat main arena with a 100k exhibition hall and flexible meeting rooms to allow OKC to compete for conventions and events. At one time during the interim, a 40,0000 seat convention hall was proposed; yes forty with a four.

What eventually killed our convention center despite the lack of seats had more to do with DT hotel accommodations to support the convention center complex. Now we have a convention center and 605 luxury suites. Hopefully, the new arena facade will blend seamlessly with the Convention Center and Omni Hotel.

When all was said and done, we were able to pass a bond issue for the exhibition space; however cost overruns took its toll on the 15,000 seat minimum arena downsized to 11,200 seats which didn't allow any growth for the event. When we moved the ever popular NFR from the 8,500 State Fair Arena to Myriad, the popularity of the NFR caught the ire of Las Vegas' casino world to fill December void using the NFR as a potential magnet to draw tourists to the strip. The 19,500 seat Thomas & Mack (U of NV - Las Vegas) center was offered as the venue to host the NFR . It could easily accommodate over 18,000+ for NFR events that didn't include the calf roping. This gave Las Vegas a 7,000 seat edge, along the the gambling lure and lights of LV and celeb shows making Nevada's largest city more attractive to grow the NFR.

Our new downtown arena will cement the NBA in OKC. We need to plan for concerts of which configurations can vary. Just building to accommodate our NBA Thunder when our arena should be multipurpose to attract concerts and rodeos--our 5,000 seat State Fair Coliseum is too small to handle the PBR bull riding circuit. Sure we could leave an open entry space that could be used to add 500 more temp seats. Let's get this right--we're investing $1 billion to build this new centerpiece arena. There's no room for mistakes. Build to accommodate the future--IMO it's better to slightly overbuild than to under build.

And remember, Tulsa King was supposed to be filmed and set in Kansas City and they voluntarily decided to change the name and production location. Was original titled 'Kansas City'.

Taylor Sheridan is the one behind TK and he grew up in Ft. Worth, lived in Austin, and now lives on a ranch in Weatherford, Texas... So it's not like the Oklahoma weather was unknown.

And remember, Tulsa King was supposed to be filmed and set in Kansas City and they voluntarily decided to change the name and production location. Was original titled 'Kansas City'.

Taylor Sheridan is the one behind TK and he grew up in Ft. Worth, lived in Austin, and now lives on a ranch in Weatherford, Texas... So it's not like the Oklahoma weather was unforeseen.

Oklahoma did have record heat for a period of that time .... so even with our "normal" summer heat standard it was pretty hot ..

(not disagreeing with anything else just adding that context)

Based on talking to some folks around the production I think TK’s move was due to two things:


A market (OKC) that is still emerging and lacking an abundance of local, experienced industry folks
An unwillingness of the production company to take a chance on local talent.

I met a locally-based actor who still had a SAG card after spending time working in LA, and she told me that local industry folks like her were VERY frustrated that they couldn’t even get auditions, or in the case of behind-the-scenes folks couldn’t get paying gigs on the production.

I also met an NYC-based SAG actor who had spent something like a decade in LA and who had legitimate credits in shows like The Office and Sex in the City. She had an extremely small speaking part in TK (I’m trying to recall if it even made it to the screen) and she was:


Flown here from NYC
Put up at The National for nearly a week in order to make calls at hair, makeup and wardrobe
Had a generous expense allowance for meals while here

All for one or two lines that, again, might not have even made it to the show. The point I’m making is that there were surely dozens of people like her flown in for the production during their time here, including not only actors but also people like PAs, wardrobe, grips, gaffers, sound, whatever. I think that this production, for whatever reason, refused to engage with local talent from the outset, and the resulting expenses incurred pretty quickly wiped out the savings they got via film tax credits.

Contrast that with a production like Killers of the Flower Moon, which worked very hard to engage with Oklahoma (and Osage) talent. Heck, I personally knew a few people who appeared in that movie, whereas I can’t think of anyone I knew on TK (other than the NYC-based actor I mentioned).

My hypothesis is that the TK move to Atlanta had more to do with the production company’s rejection of Oklahoma talent, as it is, driving a cost spiral. No doubt, Oklahoma (and OKC) need more locally-based production talent, which is why various in-state studios have been working so hard to train people. But I think TK also never tried to hard to use what was here, erasing the other economic benefits of an Oklahoma-based production.

. . . continued from Oklahoma City Thunder BB thread.



Yes, that is correct. As we prepare to build a new DT arena we need to think of something multipurpose to fulfill our NBA, NCAA basketball, Rodeo, concerts and large gatherings needs.

Looking back at the 70s when we proposed the Incomparable Myriad Convention Center our original plans were to have a complete 15,000 seat main arena with a 100k exhibition hall and flexible meeting rooms to allow OKC to compete for conventions and events. At one time during the interim, a 40,0000 seat convention hall was proposed; yes forty with a four.

What eventually killed our convention center despite the lack of seats had more to do with DT hotel accommodations to support the convention center complex. Now we have a convention center and 605 luxury suites. Hopefully, the new arena facade will blend seamlessly with the Convention Center and Omni Hotel.

When all was said and done, we were able to pass a bond issue for the exhibition space; however cost overruns took its toll on the 15,000 seat minimum arena downsized to 11,200 seats which didn't allow any growth for the event. When we moved the ever popular NFR from the 8,500 State Fair Arena to Myriad, the popularity of the NFR caught the ire of Las Vegas' casino world to fill December void using the NFR as a potential magnet to draw tourists to the strip. The 19,500 seat Thomas & Mack (U of NV - Las Vegas) center was offered as the venue to host the NFR . It could easily accommodate over 18,000+ for NFR events that didn't include the calf roping. This gave Las Vegas a 7,000 seat edge, along the the gambling lure and lights of LV and celeb shows making Nevada's largest city more attractive to grow the NFR.

Our new downtown arena will cement the NBA in OKC. We need to plan for concerts of which configurations can vary. Just building to accommodate our NBA Thunder when our arena should be multipurpose to attract concerts and rodeos--our 5,000 seat State Fair Coliseum is too small to handle the PBR bull riding circuit. Sure we could leave an open entry space that could be used to add 500 more temp seats. Let's get this right--we're investing $1 billion to build this new centerpiece arena. There's no room for mistakes. Build to accommodate the future--IMO it's better to slightly overbuild than to under build.

I think the current belief is that 18,000 people is about the maximum number of people that indoor, basketball type arenas can handle in comfort. We can get more people in, but ease of access, width of seat, foot room, and sightlines are diminished. They want to maximize revenue per seat, and make it a better value than sitting at home watching it on your 70-inch TV. If the seats above the 18,000 make for a less desirable experience, then they wind up selling them for cheap and add to the overall uncomfortable crowd experience. If all the seats above the bottom section are crammed like sardines in order to go from 18,000 to 22,000 capacity, then a whole lot of people are not wanting to attend or pay strong money for the experience.

^

A huge issue is the large amount of suites in modern arenas. Suites maximize revenue but reduce capacity.

^

A huge issue is the large amount of suites in modern arenas. Suites maximize revenue but reduce capacity.

it will be very interesting if the new thunder area could be the first to solve the courtside suites "problem"

several NFL and MLB stadiums have field level suites ... so far no NBA arena does (now they have court side suites but they don't inclued a view of the court) ..

not sure that is even possible .. but it would be a very cool feature that would produce revenue .

it will be very interesting if the new thunder area could be the first to solve the courtside suites "problem"

several NFL and MLB stadiums have field level suites ... so far no NBA arena does (now they have court side suites but they don't inclued a view of the court) ..

not sure that is even possible .. but it would be a very cool feature that would produce revenue .

I feel like that would severely limit what you could do with the arena. I'm sure you could solve it, if you built it for basketball and not much else. Also, I just don't think the perimeter of a basketball court is large enough to get that many suits in.

I feel like that would severely limit what you could do with the arena. I'm sure you could solve it, if you built it for basketball and not much else. Also, I just don't think the perimeter of a basketball court is large enough to get that many suits in.

I would bet you are right ... that it is a big point why it has not happened yet

^

But Dallas, Austin, and Houston have absolutely miserable summers and people are flocking there, including production crews.

It's not like TK moved from here to California. It may be hotter in OKC than in Atlanta, but I've been there plenty of times and with the humidity, in some ways it's worse. At the very least, the summers are pretty comparable.

Anyway, we'll never know the reasons they left, but nothing else of significance has come since and that's pretty telling. It may be a simple matter of getting more experienced crew, but that's very much a chicken-and-egg situation.
I think you hit the nail on the head with the lack of talent and experienced crews needed for a major production like this. Atlanta and Albuquerque have been building up their film scene for quite some time. Once again, Oklahoma just fell behind. Sure we’ve had some productions but nothing like what they’ve had. We certainly don’t have multi billion dollar movie studios.

I think you hit the nail on the head with the lack of talent and experienced crews needed for a major production like this. Atlanta and Albuquerque have been building up their film scene for quite some time. Once again, Oklahoma just fell behind. Sure we’ve had some productions but nothing like what they’ve had. We certainly don’t have multi billion dollar movie studios.

I think you are bashing Oklahoma too much on this. Atlanta has long been a player on these (all the way back to Walkijg Dead). ABQ benefits from Breaking Dad's success. But OK is growing. They need more incentives at the state level, for sure. But I don't think it is as simple as "Oklahoma failed at something". They basically have become a player based off starting at zero 5 years ago.

I think the current belief is that 18,000 people is about the maximum number of people that indoor, basketball type arenas can handle in comfort. We can get more people in, but ease of access, width of seat, foot room, and sightlines are diminished. They want to maximize revenue per seat, and make it a better value than sitting at home watching it on your 70-inch TV. If the seats above the 18,000 make for a less desirable experience, then they wind up selling them for cheap and add to the overall uncomfortable crowd experience. If all the seats above the bottom section are crammed like sardines in order to go from 18,000 to 22,000 capacity, then a whole lot of people are not wanting to attend or pay strong money for the experience.

Why would we have to cram. We're talking about building a new $900+ million arena from the ground up; there would be no need cram seats if you build it with correct specs to include 22" wide seat with cup holders; luxury suites and lodge type seating in between levels similar to Yum Center.

Let's not repeat the mistake we made with our current Paycom Center when we had to downsize from 19,300 seats to the current 18,203 that created the seating debacle.


https://www.ssr-inc.com/wp-content/uploads/kfc_yum_center_02-e1395868354119.jpg
Louisville's arena seats 22,090; their arena opened in 2010 at a cost of $238 Million, 11,348 seats in the lower bowl, with the remainder on the upper tier. The seat width also increased from 19 to 20 inches. Our current Paycom Center has 22" wide seats with cup holders. The old Myriad Great Arena had 19" wide seats built on a more steeper incline where your knees were aligned with the person's head in front of you.

We're investing $1 billion on this four square block site, ample room for 18,500-19,500 seats on two levels. With the use of partitions 1,000 seats could be sections off and used only when needed. And let's not forget those fans who can only afford seats in the $45 to $65 range.

Oklahoma City has been listed as No. 13 on MovieMaker Magazine's 2025 list of “The Best Places to Live and Work as a Moviemaker” in the U.S. and Canada. This recognition coincides with the Oklahoma Film & Music Office's official designation of Oklahoma City as a film-friendly city last week.4
Tulsa came in at 15.

Why would we have to cram. We're talking about building a new $900+ million arena from the ground up; there would be no need cram seats if you build it with correct specs to include 22" wide seat with cup holders; luxury suites and lodge type seating in between levels similar to Yum Center.

Let's not repeat the mistake we made with our current Paycom Center when we had to downsize from 19,300 seats to the current 18,203 that created the seating debacle.


https://www.ssr-inc.com/wp-content/uploads/kfc_yum_center_02-e1395868354119.jpg
Louisville's arena seats 22,090; their arena opened in 2010 at a cost of $238 Million, 11,348 seats in the lower bowl, with the remainder on the upper tier. The seat width also increased from 19 to 20 inches. Our current Paycom Center has 22" wide seats with cup holders. The old Myriad Great Arena had 19" wide seats built on a more steeper incline where your knees were aligned with the person's head in front of you.

We're investing $1 billion on this four square block site, ample room for 18,500-19,500 seats on two levels. With the use of partitions 1,000 seats could be sections off and used only when needed. And let's not forget those fans who can only afford seats in the $45 to $65 range.

Partitions are regarded as not fitting a quality aesthetic. Acoustics can be challenging. And people always know the event didn't sell enough tickets, so they had to lop off some seating. I'm guessing the 22,000 seat arenas have very distant viewing from that upper section. Enough where the person has to wonder why they went to all the expense and effort to watch on an in-house Jumbotron? When they could have watched a better picture at home for next to nothing.

While I was just typing out all my Significant Statements above, I got to wondering what seating capacity is at the Chase Center in San Francisco and Intuit Dome in Los Angeles? The latest and greatest NBA arenas that had no limits on cost or size during design and construction. Looks like both are right around 18,000 for basketball. I have to think they understand the future trends and have built accordingly.

it will be very interesting if the new thunder area could be the first to solve the courtside suites "problem"

several NFL and MLB stadiums have field level suites ... so far no NBA arena does (now they have court side suites but they don't inclued a view of the court) ..

not sure that is even possible .. but it would be a very cool feature that would produce revenue .

I'm not sure it's a problem, though. Maybe some suites in the lower bowl, somewhere, but sitting courtside at an NBA game with your feet on the floor is probably the best seat in all of sports. Even without the bunker suites or restaurants that usually come with those seats, it's better than any suite and pretty much worth the premium on its own. So, I'm not sure any NBA organization would really gain much from reducing courtside seating capacity to accommodate courtside suites.

Wouldn't courtside suites/boxes totally screw up the normal seating arrangements for concerts that we're all used to (floor, 100-level all the way around, 200-level all the way around, 300-level all the way around, with suites/boxes coming in somewhere in between the 100/200/300-levels)?

I think you are bashing Oklahoma too much on this. Atlanta has long been a player on these (all the way back to Walkijg Dead). ABQ benefits from Breaking Dad's success. But OK is growing. They need more incentives at the state level, for sure. But I don't think it is as simple as "Oklahoma failed at something". They basically have become a player based off starting at zero 5 years ago.
I don’t mean to bash Oklahoma, I’m just saying, I think Georgia and New Mexico were ahead in the game and have more talent available. I was agreeing with Pete‘s statement that it’s more likely the production moved to more established areas they have more talent available for movie production. For example Albuquerque just had a multi billion dollar expansion of their Netflix studio.

Are courtside suites retractable? If not, then you've killed the plan already. It works some for football because the field is so much larger and fans are using to having some sort of wall between them and the players anyway. It's not the same for basketball. I don't honestly think you'll ever see anything encroach on the courtside seating arrangement.

OKC doesn't honestly need a 20k+ arena either. 18K is totally fine. Even with the games the way they are right now, there are plenty of empty seats on any given day. If we were maxing the place out, sure we should add. But we're not. And you don't build for the 2 games in the year that you might go full capacity. And those extra 2k are going to be up top too....so they're the "cheap" seats. So does the cost of building to accommodate them, come back to you as a ROI?

What we're going to see in OKC is not so much something that looks SOOOO different inside the bowl. What you will see is the difference in the concourses. They're very much "we added that on" today and dont look great. It's still very industrial concrete. Loud City doesn't even have a lot of signage and just has stuff painted on. I would hope that all of that gets buttoned up more to make the whole place a little nicer.

Loud City doesn't have cup holders and i dont know where you'd put them. My knees hit the glass in front of my on our "front" row seats. It's EXTREMELY tight seating. I'd really rather a little more room there and a cup holder so we stop having everyone's drinks roll down to our feet. But i also know that to do that, is extremely expensive. Every inch of leg room equates to an expense.

Are courtside suites retractable? If not, then you've killed the plan already. It works some for football because the field is so much larger and fans are using to having some sort of wall between them and the players anyway. It's not the same for basketball. I don't honestly think you'll ever see anything encroach on the courtside seating arrangement.
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makes me wonder if you could have them on one of the ends of the court ...

Are courtside suites retractable? If not, then you've killed the plan already. It works some for football because the field is so much larger and fans are using to having some sort of wall between them and the players anyway. It's not the same for basketball. I don't honestly think you'll ever see anything encroach on the courtside seating arrangement.


Yeah, I don't think it would work without some elaborate expensive engineering. Like the whole box getting wheeled out or having the box retract into the ground. Something crazy like that.

I feel like that would severely limit what you could do with the arena. I'm sure you could solve it, if you built it for basketball and not much else. Also, I just don't think the perimeter of a basketball court is large enough to get that many suits in.

Why do courtside bunker suites have to be permanent installations? Make them collapsible support structures for the lower temporary seating, and start the permanent seating a few rows higher.

The amount of money that those seats would cost would have to be more than the sum of all the seats you are taking by doing this too. I dont think OKC has a market for that. Can you imagine the expense for 50 courtside seats? And that's not really an exaggeration for a 14x14 box. Not to mention we would have to create tunnels to connect the people TO the boxes. I dont think you would want doors on the front going to the court like you would normally do. The doors would have to be on the back, and all that tunnelling would also have to be collapsible. Plus the electrical lines. You have to build where the things store, taking up more room in the facility. The tear down and setup time. It's a pretty astronomically expensive thing.

I would put this in the "not a ice cube's chance in hell" category.

Why do courtside bunker suites have to be permanent installations? Make them collapsible support structures for the lower temporary seating, and start the permanent seating a few rows higher.

I guess it goes back to that question on why bother just to have a 3 foot wall in front of some VIP's at a basket ball game? I think NFL and MLB are slow enough that the VIP's want tables to put their drinks and food on, there's a lot of talking and socializing during the slow periods.