https://venuesnow.com/dont-forget-concerts-at-new-okc-arena/

In that article they say the Thunder relocated from Vancouver. The writer spent enough time researching the arena but didn't see the team moved from Seattle? They are correct and it goes along with what I said above. If OKC wants to get really big concerts we need more seats. This will most likely be the last arena I ever see built in OKC and I want it to be something special.

I'm in LA now, not for the Thunder game but watching it on Kodi so I can see local commentators instead of the Clippers. Anyway, yesterday I went to Costco to pickup some food for a BBQ and I drove by the new Clippers arena. Wow, that place is nice. OKC needs to look at what they have done. They've created a complete fan experience...
Well, you’re in luck. OKC already IS looking at what was done at Intuit Dome; in fact they were there yesterday and for the game last night.

If you watched the broadcast closely last night you’d have spotted OKC’s mayor sitting courtside. He was in LA with other City officials, representatives from the Thunder ownership and front office, ASM management and others to tour Intuit and experience a game there as a benchmark.

Luckily for them it was the same night as yet another Thunder win, rendering the Clippers STILL winless in their new building.

They’ve also visited other stadiums and arenas recently in order to explore current best practices for planning, constructing and programming facilities like our new arena. This building is a moon shot for OKC and they’re rightly treating it as such.

Maybe I am too much of a traditionalist, but I would prefer a stadium with box suites all around the stadium. The Clippers arena looks goofy.

I do not like it.

^^^^^^^^^
I don’t think there’s any danger of the City building a copy of Intuit Dome; in fact it would be fully impossible to duplicate a $2 billion building with OKC’s ~$1 billion project budget.

OKC is looking at multiple recent buildings - including non-basketball ones like Allegiant Stadium in Las Vegas - to determine which current sports and entertainment facility best practices make the most sense for implementation here, while using the relatively modest (these days) budget set aside for the OKC arena.

The Intuit Dome was $2 billion, not $4B. And a big chunk of that was spent on making the entire place carbon neutral.

Chase Center (in the middle of SF) was $1.4 billion. Barclays in Brooklyn was $1 billion. No other arenas have cost more than $1B.

The FiServ Arena in Milwaukee -- which is a great facility -- cost $514 million.


Well over $1 billion will be spent on OKC's new arena -- all on construction as the land is totally free. In no way is ours a 'modest budget'.

The Intuit Dome was $2 billion, not $4B..'.
Yeah, I’d already fixed that error.

But yes, these days $1 billion is by no means a big budget for such a facility. It qualifies as modest. Not cheap, but not over-the-top by any measure.

To add on to this, Fiserv was opened in 2018. A full decade and a financial lifetime before the hoped-for 2028 opening of OKC’s. It’s an apples-and-oranges comparison, Pete.

Chase was 2019. Barclays was 2012. Impossible to fairly compare these buildings to OKC’s from a cost standpoint.

To add on to this, Fiserv was opened in 2018. A full decade and a financial lifetime before the hoped-for 2028 opening of OKC’s. It’s an apples-and-oranges comparison, Pete.

Regardless, in no world is a $1B+ budget with free land considered modest.

^^^^^^^^^^
You’re arguing semantics. If you built Fiserv, Chase or Barclays today AS IS they would all be WELL over $1 billion.

^^^^^^^^^^
You’re arguing semantics. If you built Fiserv, Chase or Barclays today AS IS they would all be WELL over $1 billion.

Just admit you were wrong.

Those are the best the NBA has to offer and the OKC arena will also be well over $1B when all is said and done.

So, there is no way our budget is modest -- it will yield a facility on par with absolutely anything, except, perhaps, the way over-the-top Intuit Dome.

Barclays cost a billion dollars in 2012, (at least) SIXTEEN YEARS before OKC’s arena will open.

Just admit you were wrong.

Those are the best the NBA has to offer and the OKC arena will also be well over $1B when all is said and done.

So, there is no way our budget is modest -- it will yield a facility on par with absolutely anything, except, perhaps, the way over-the-top Intuit Dome.
LOL, I’m definitely NOT wrong.

I’m not suggesting OKC’s building won’t be world class; it most certainly will be. But going forward I can’t imagine that you’ll ever again see an NBA building constructed for less than a billion. Most will probably be closer to Inuit’s total than Barclays.

And using pricing from a decade ago as comparison data is the definition of unfair, considering the inflationary intervening era.

Reminder of the current budget:

$976MM minimum estimated sales tax collection (per OKC)
$75MM MAPS 4
$50MM Owners

That's more than $1.1B *minimum* and based on past sales tax collections, I estimate that number will grow by at least another $125 million and probably more. So, at least $1.2B+. That is not counting whatever ground lease money is generated by the commercial development on the block, which is required to go back to the arena.

Plus, completely free land, the cheapest construction labor market in all of the NBA, and no doubt tons more things the City will throw in, like street improvements, utilities etc. Wouldn't be surprised it the City ends up paying for the parking component as well as demoliton.

$1.1B is more enough to build a top of the line arena in Oklahoma City. Hoping the arena will have self-service amenities, supported by AI technology. Once built it will be the newest arena in the NBA. There are no other current teams planning to build a new arena.

I just hope the acoustics are top-notch. I bet they will be.

$1.1B is more enough to build a top of the line arena in Oklahoma City. Hoping the arena will have self-service amenities, supported by AI technology. Once built it will be the newest arena in the NBA. There are no other current teams planning to build a new arena.
Yes, of course it should be more than enough. Especially in OKC, and especially with - as Pete pointed out - the City already owning the land.

My original point, before it was hijacked over semantics and unnecessary disagreement, was that we weren’t getting something as over-the-top elaborate as Intuit, which was the concern of the poster I was replying to. We will surely have one of the best arenas in the league. In no way “budget,” or “cheap,” (as was the building now known as Paycom), but definitely delivered for an amount that is modest and reasonable by today’s standards, ESPECIALLY by comparison to Intuit.

Maybe I am too much of a traditionalist, but I would prefer a stadium with box suites all around the stadium. The Clippers arena looks goofy.

I do not like it.

i wonder how much demand this MSA really has for corporate suites. sure, there is probably demand for significantly more boxes in the new arena, relative to what is in paycom now.

but i'd hate to see us get rid of too many seats in favor of boxes that the city/team struggles to sell.

i wonder how much demand this MSA really has for corporate suites. sure, there is probably demand for significantly more boxes in the new arena, relative to what is in paycom now.

but i'd hate to see us get rid of too many seats in favor of boxes that the city/team struggles to sell.

We need space in the new arena to expand suites and boxes in the future. Not so much concerned about having a smaller seating arena for sellouts; but one where you have enough seating to accommodate ticket demand. I'll continue to say that our new arena should have a minimum 18,500 seating capacity.

Doesn't seem to me that Metro OKC is getting more corporately stronger; however what we do have here in Oklahoma
is a solid energy and water sources to support incoming firms that want to establish a presence in our state for future growth and expansion.

Yes, of course it should be more than enough. Especially in OKC, and especially with - as Pete pointed out - the City already owning the land.

My original point, before it was hijacked over semantics and unnecessary disagreement, was that we weren’t getting something as over-the-top elaborate as Intuit, which was the concern of the poster I was replying to. We will surely have one of the best arenas in the league. In no way “budget,” or “cheap,” (as was the building now known as Paycom), but definitely delivered for an amount that is modest and reasonable by today’s standards, ESPECIALLY by comparison to Intuit.

For what it's worth the Intuit Dome is an exception, $2B is no way an NBA standard for an arena. It was built to that level with extra amenities due to it hosting events for the 2028 Olympics, so there's that.

I went to the Thunder-Clippers game on Saturday at the Intuit Dome, and there's a lot OKC can learn from the arena even if the price points are different. Here's some main points:

- Intuit Dome App: To attend the game you have to download the Intuit Dome app and provide them a bevy of information, including biometric data. Every person (unless a minor) has to have the app. It's the worst experience I've ever had related to attending a sporting event. Completing all the components of the app required 3-4 hours, primarily because it didn't work. For example, it took 1 hour alone just to get a confirmation code for my wife to create an account. After one hour, she received like 25 confirmation codes all at once. The app is also incredibly invasive and even requires creating a CLEAR account, taking pictures, uploading your driver's license. I had already bought the tickets or I would have opted out. I felt very violated, but I guess I should have expected it from a big tech guy like Balmer.
- Entry: I've been to hundreds of NBA games and this was by far the worst lines to get into the venue. One woman in front of us had to go through security around 15 times. It was going off for every woman seemingly. Also, bags had to be under 4 inches wide or something really tiny, which is ridiculous for women who may have essentials they need to carry. A Clippers season ticket holder said every game has been a mess. Maybe they'll get it figured it out as it's only the fourth home game.
- Arena: The arena is open air, really clean, and efficient. I won't rehash all of Balmer's decisions for making it a great basketball arena, but I think he largely succeeded. You can see the Halo videoboard from most of the concourse so you don't have to miss the game when going up to get food/drink. Some food/drink options are basically in the arena, and others are outside of it (all of OKC's are outside). You access the food/drinks from stores where you just go in, get your items, and walk out. An employee just has to take the lid off of drinks. It was very quick and easy. But, at the same time, very impersonal. There are a lot of bathrooms so I never waited in line. The arena is very steep, which means that the seats in the back don't feel that far from the court. The Halo videoboard is huge and impressive. However, it kind of restricts your ability to see the rest of the arena. Your view is always of both the videoboard and the court, which I didn't love. After you get over how impressive the graphics are on the Halo, I thought it was kind of unnecessary. I should add that I don't like giant videoboards like this one and the one at JerryWorld because you end up watching them—often unintentionally—more than the game at time. I prefer the Thunder's videoboard to the Halo personally. Finally, I'll add that the Wall of rowdy Clippers fans was definitely cool and I'd love to see OKC do the same thing. It definitely helps create a good environment. Having said that, the crowd was generally quiet and there were a couple thousand empty seats. The fans were drastically inferior to OKC fans.
Area: It was a bit of hike for me to get out to the arena in Inglewood and isn't a lot of stuff to do when you walk outside the arena. OKC's arena should be much better integrated into a walkable downtown environment.

Regarding the app and entry, the lesson is, don't get too cute with things. Tech doesn't improve everything. In fact, tech can often degrade the experience. While the Intuit Dome is technologically impressive, I don't think it actually created a better experience of the game on the whole. I think OKC should consider a steeper arena, a Wall type fan section, and a concourse where you can still see the game. But OKC can also make the arena interact with the surrounding environment. In other words, OKC's arena may not have some features of Intuit, but that doesn't mean a Thunder home game can't provide a better overall experience than a Clippers home game.

I went to the Thunder-Clippers game on Saturday at the Intuit Dome, and there's a lot OKC can learn from the arena even if the price points are different. Here's some main points:

- Intuit Dome App: To attend the game you have to download the Intuit Dome app and provide them a bevy of information, including biometric data. Every person (unless a minor) has to have the app. It's the worst experience I've ever had related to attending a sporting event. Completing all the components of the app required 3-4 hours, primarily because it didn't work. For example, it took 1 hour alone just to get a confirmation code for my wife to create an account. After one hour, she received like 25 confirmation codes all at once. The app is also incredibly invasive and even requires creating a CLEAR account, taking pictures, uploading your driver's license. I had already bought the tickets or I would have opted out. I felt very violated, but I guess I should have expected it from a big tech guy like Balmer.
- Entry: I've been to hundreds of NBA games and this was by far the worst lines to get into the venue. One woman in front of us had to go through security around 15 times. It was going off for every woman seemingly. Also, bags had to be under 4 inches wide or something really tiny, which is ridiculous for women who may have essentials they need to carry. A Clippers season ticket holder said every game has been a mess. Maybe they'll get it figured it out as it's only the fourth home game.
- Arena: The arena is open air, really clean, and efficient. I won't rehash all of Balmer's decisions for making it a great basketball arena, but I think he largely succeeded. You can see the Halo videoboard from most of the concourse so you don't have to miss the game when going up to get food/drink. Some food/drink options are basically in the arena, and others are outside of it (all of OKC's are outside). You access the food/drinks from stores where you just go in, get your items, and walk out. An employee just has to take the lid off of drinks. It was very quick and easy. But, at the same time, very impersonal. There are a lot of bathrooms so I never waited in line. The arena is very steep, which means that the seats in the back don't feel that far from the court. The Halo videoboard is huge and impressive. However, it kind of restricts your ability to see the rest of the arena. Your view is always of both the videoboard and the court, which I didn't love. After you get over how impressive the graphics are on the Halo, I thought it was kind of unnecessary. I should add that I don't like giant videoboards like this one and the one at JerryWorld because you end up watching them—often unintentionally—more than the game at time. I prefer the Thunder's videoboard to the Halo personally. Finally, I'll add that the Wall of rowdy Clippers fans was definitely cool and I'd love to see OKC do the same thing. It definitely helps create a good environment. Having said that, the crowd was generally quiet and there were a couple thousand empty seats. The fans were drastically inferior to OKC fans.
Area: It was a bit of hike for me to get out to the arena in Inglewood and isn't a lot of stuff to do when you walk outside the arena. OKC's arena should be much better integrated into a walkable downtown environment.

Regarding the app and entry, the lesson is, don't get too cute with things. Tech doesn't improve everything. In fact, tech can often degrade the experience. While the Intuit Dome is technologically impressive, I don't think it actually created a better experience of the game on the whole. I think OKC should consider a steeper arena, a Wall type fan section, and a concourse where you can still see the game. But OKC can also make the arena interact with the surrounding environment. In other words, OKC's arena may not have some features of Intuit, but that doesn't mean a Thunder home game can't provide a better overall experience than a Clippers home game.

thank you for the review

Just FYI, there is a ton of new development directly north of Intuit (on the same property as the amazing SoFi Stadium) with a lot more to come.

There is a luxury 12-screen movie theater and a Cosm, the sports bar with the massive immersive screen, a brewery, coffee place, etc. They will eventually have over 100 restaurants and retail stores. There is also a large casino, as this was the former site of Hollywood Park racetrack. There is Youtube Theater, which holds 6,000 and a permanent Farmer's Market.

The entire square mile is being built up around the stadium and The Forum is still there too. It's all an easy walk across Century Blvd. and adjacent to oceans of parking for Intuit, The Forum, Youtube, and SoFi. It's a very cool development with housing and hotels as well.

Yup, no question, but the casino, for example, doesn’t feel “walkable” as there’s a busy street and big wall barriers between the arena and the casino. As someone who doesn’t know the area well, it just wasn’t obvious where I’d walk to before/after a game. But, yeah, I know there’s a lot more development coming in that area.

Yup, no question, but the casino, for example, doesn’t feel “walkable” as there’s a busy street and big wall barriers between the arena and the casino. As someone who doesn’t know the area well, it just wasn’t obvious where I’d walk to before/after a game. But, yeah, I know there’s a lot more development coming in that area.

It's all just so new and a lot of it is still under construction.

That area will soon have more to offer than all of downtown OKC.

It's all just so new and a lot of it is still under construction.

That area will soon have more to offer than all of downtown OKC.

I don't think we should compare Inglewood to downtown OKC. There are more people in a 5 mile radius of that area than most, if not all, of OKC.

Not sure why someone tried to earlier.

I don't think we should compare Inglewood to downtown OKC. There are more people in a 5 mile radius of that area than most, if not all, of OKC.

Not sure why someone tried to earlier.

Was just addressing the comment that our arena will have more to do in the immediate area.

The Intuit Dome is just a small part of a massive development that is only getting started.


It's funny to think about but when the Staples Center opened in downtown L.A., I was working only a few blocks away and there was almost nothing around that arena but vacant lots. Today, L.A. Live is directly adjacent and the entire area has been filled in with all types of very dense development, including a bunch of high-rises.

Was just addressing the comment that our arena will have more to do in the immediate area.

The Intuit Dome is just a small part of a massive development that is only getting started.


It's funny to think about but when the Staples Center opened in downtown L.A., I was working only a few blocks away and there was almost nothing around that arena but vacant lots. Today, L.A. Live is directly adjacent and the entire area has been filled in with all types of very dense development, including a bunch of high-rises.

Oklahoma City needs innovative, but also proven, developers for the land around the new arena. This good ol boy, back room BS needs to be thrown out the window for this area, especially.

I didn't realize the Staples Center was in an almost empty part of downtown LA before it was built.

Oklahoma City needs innovative, but also proven, developers for the land around the new arena. This good ol boy, back room BS needs to be thrown out the window for this area, especially.

I didn't realize the Staples Center was in an almost empty part of downtown LA before it was built.

the team owners get market rate ground lease for that land in their agreement ..

the team owners get market rate ground lease for that land in their agreement ..

Well, hopefully it won't sit empty like the land next to the Paycom Center. I can see them just sitting on it. Altruism wasn't shown in putting like, 5% of the total project budget up, so I have doubts they will try to get this developed correctly or quickly.

Well, hopefully it won't sit empty like the land next to the Paycom Center. I can see them just sitting on it. Altruism wasn't shown in putting like, 5% of the total project budget up, so I have doubts they will try to get this developed correctly or quickly.

I’d imagine they’ll move more quickly considering how expensive this team is about to get.

Well, hopefully it won't sit empty like the land next to the Paycom Center. I can see them just sitting on it. Altruism wasn't shown in putting like, 5% of the total project budget up, so I have doubts they will try to get this developed correctly or quickly.
Altruism isn’t what will be driving development on this site. I’m not sure I understand why that’s even a part of your calculation when discussing commercial real estate development of this type. It will be developed as quickly as possible. In fact I’d expect the development to roughly coincide with the arena’s construction.

Altruism isn’t what will be driving development on this site. I’m not sure I understand why that’s even a part of your calculation when discussing commercial real estate development of this type. It will be developed as quickly as possible. In fact I’d expect the development to roughly coincide with the arena’s construction.

Sure, sure. I am sure plenty of people said similar things with the RECOH land, yet it may sit empty for 10 more years, and has already been empty for decades.

I hope you are right, though.

So much hyperbole. The REHCO site was an operating (and very successful) car dealership from 1923 to 2011. It’s been a little over a decade, NOT “decades” - several years of which were pandemic-impacted - and during that time it was also briefly in flux due to consideration for the arena site.

The owners were also well aware during much of that time (meaning most of the past decade) that there would be a new arena, one that would likely land NEAR that property if not on it. They almost certainly didn’t want to make rash decisions that would limit possibilities before the arena election and the location decision was made.

I swear the development entitlement that people on here have regarding privately-owned property that doesn’t belong to them (or the City) is baffling to me. Sometimes it takes time (and strategy) to do things correctly and to not needlessly suffer opportunity cost. There’s a term for this: patient money.

We aren’t OWED anything when it comes to the REHCO site. But there’s also no doubt in my mind that the group that controls that land will develop something great there in due time, now that the arena location is settled. They’re legitimately the most accomplished local urban development team in this city at this point.

The surplus property on the site of the new arena is an entirely different proposition. It’s controlled under agreement by the Thunder, who’ve made no secret of their desire (and need) to wring every dollar out of the fan experience, and their intention to pursue current NBA trends and best practices in this regard. As of today that means contiguous entertainment options that capitalize on team connection and arena proximity. That site is likely to be developed so fast that it will make our heads spin.

So much hyperbole. The REHCO site was an operating (and very successful) car dealership from 1923 to 2011. It’s been a little over a decade, NOT “decades” - several years of which were pandemic-impacted - and during that time it was also briefly in flux due to consideration for the arena site.

The owners were also well aware during much of that time (meaning most of the past decade) that there would be a new arena, one that would likely land NEAR that property if not on it. They almost certainly didn’t want to make rash decisions that would limit possibilities before the arena election and the location decision was made.

I swear the development entitlement that people on here have regarding privately-owned property that doesn’t belong to them (or the City) is baffling to me. Sometimes it takes time (and strategy) to do things correctly and to not needlessly suffer opportunity cost. There’s a term for this: patient money.

We aren’t OWED anything when it comes to the REHCO site. But there’s also no doubt in my mind that the group that controls that land will develop something great there in due time, now that the arena location is settled. They’re legitimately the most accomplished local urban development team in this city at this point.

The surplus property on the site of the new arena is an entirely different proposition. It’s controlled under agreement by the Thunder, who’ve made no secret of their desire (and need) to wring every dollar out of the fan experience, and their intention to pursue current NBA trends and best practices in this regard. As of today that means contiguous entertainment options that capitalize on team connection and arena proximity. That site is likely to be developed so fast that it will make our heads spin.

It is more because so many large-scale private developments have been either tempered or cancelled completely/delayed with no beginning in sight. The Hub on Broadway, Boulevard Place, Alley's End (may finally be about to start), Alley North has already taken a hit (even if getting Pappadeaux's is great, the quality of the overall development will be hurt, IMO), all within 1 or 2 miles of the arena. Just seeing all these large developments not moving forward or stalled, it begins to wear on you. I know it happens everywhere around the country, and there are plenty of successful developments in the city. But the misses have been big.

And I didn't even mention the Boardwalk at Bricktown disaster in that list.

The arena will happen, and will be immaculate, no doubt. The quality team working on it guarantees that. We shall see if the land surrounding it will live up to that same potential. I hope it does. There is immense potential, and just needs the right developers with the right depth of pockets.

I get holding a grudge against stalled developments on OCURA (publicly-owned) land and/or ones that tie up public incentives. Although I also understand that sometimes spreadsheets, unexpectedly spiraling interest rates, materials costs and other factors can conspire to change and/or kill projects. It’s reality.

But the REHCO site is a very different animal from most of what you’ve cited, and the Thunder’s development of the arena site’s contiguous property is vastly different from ALL of the above.

For me, I recognize being patient with the REHCO site. It's very important to get the development at that site right. Having said that, they could have spent a little money to improve the aesthetics of the property. It's been a total eyesore for over a decade right in the middle of two massive public investments (about to be 3 with the arena) which they'll massively profit from. It's just disappointing that such a super visible part of OKC as an ugly surface lot for so long.

For me, I recognize being patient with the REHCO site. It's very important to get the development at that site right. Having said that, they could have spent a little money to improve the aesthetics of the property. It's been a total eyesore for over a decade right in the middle of two massive public investments (about to be 3 with the arena) which they'll massively profit from. It's just disappointing that such a super visible part of OKC as an ugly surface lot for so long.

They also make a ton of money from Thunder contract parking as well as all the events downtown.

Those lots are pretty disgraceful, especially since they have been in use for a decade. Not exactly a temporary situation.

I went to the Thunder-Clippers game on Saturday at the Intuit Dome, and there's a lot OKC can learn from the arena even if the price points are different. Here's some main points:

- Intuit Dome App: To attend the game you have to download the Intuit Dome app and provide them a bevy of information, including biometric data. Every person (unless a minor) has to have the app. It's the worst experience I've ever had related to attending a sporting event. Completing all the components of the app required 3-4 hours, primarily because it didn't work. For example, it took 1 hour alone just to get a confirmation code for my wife to create an account. After one hour, she received like 25 confirmation codes all at once. The app is also incredibly invasive and even requires creating a CLEAR account, taking pictures, uploading your driver's license. I had already bought the tickets or I would have opted out. I felt very violated, but I guess I should have expected it from a big tech guy like Balmer.


i wonder if a city owned arena would have a harder time incorporating this type of trash.

heard Intuit also has microphones in every seat. no thanks.

i wonder if a city owned arena would have a harder time incorporating this type of trash.

heard Intuit also has microphones in every seat. no thanks.

I bet they yank those out in a few years.

The bar is set really high on the REHCO and now Boardwalk site.

Urbanized,
Appreciate the color here on REHCO. You mentioned REHCO ownership group above, who actually owns the site and is there any overlap with Thunder ownership? At one point, I thought there was but a little unsure now.

Agree that getting this right is very important and patience was smart. Hopefully they will start kicking tires on development ideas once the renderings for the new arena start coming out next year. Would think they would need to see what the plan for the area surrounding the new Arena will be and even perhaps what the plan for the Paycom site will be before they move, but hopefully those data points will start coming into focus in the next year or so and then they can start planning in earnest on what will work best here.

Reminder of what these lots look like.

Really atrocious and right in the middle of about a billion $ of public investment (soon to be multi-billions).

The City should have required them to bring these properties up to Downtown Design Review standards before they were awarded the massive parking contracts for the Thunder games.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rehco110524a.jpg

They really are a hodgepodge mess and are very visible in aerial shots of the arena.

Reminder of what these lots look like.

Really atrocious and right in the middle of about a billion $ of public investment (soon to be multi-billions).

The City should have required them to bring these properties up to Downtown Design Review standards before they were awarded the massive parking contracts for the Thunder games.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/rehco110524a.jpg

I understand why the city redid the SW 2nd and Harvey curb cuts, but I feel like when the development is done on the area, the whole intersection will most likely be closed and redeveloped.

I understand why the city redid the SW 2nd and Harvey curb cuts, but I feel like when the development is done on the area, the whole intersection will most likely be closed and redeveloped.

When the Ford dealership closed in 2011, Fred Hall & Co. said they were working on development plans.

That was 13 years ago and absolutely nothing has happened here since. At some point, the City has to go forward, especially since that area lies between two incredibly popular parks, with lots of people walking back and forth and the streetcar stop right there.


Whatever happens here, I know there is a priority of maintaining the "Harvey Spine" as that is indicated in all long-term planning docs.

It probably won't remain a street for cars, but whatever does happen would require REHCO petitioning to close those streets and obtain rights to develop on City land -- and likely pay handsomely.

I feel like when the development is done on the area, the whole intersection will most likely be closed and redeveloped.

Hopefully not. That area could become something special with two parks on either side and a $1B arena coming. This area and the Paycom site could radically transform the urban core of OKC if developed by someone willing to do the extra work and not go for the quickest and easiest buck with a lowest common denominator plan. (Like Lower Bricktown)

This might be a waste of the space, but my dream for this area would be to recreate a small historic district with 1, 2, and 3 story brick buildings, etc. (much like what was lost during urban renewal). Maybe even mimic some of the iconic OKC buildings that were lost during that time, at least on the facade side.

Cool storefronts on the ground floor with loft apartments on the upper floors.

I believe this would be incredible placed between the Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park and would add a lot of charm to the area and more housing downtown. Great infill.

I feel like more and more people are looking for these kinds of step-back-in-time experiences (think downtown Guthrie), although I recognize the new build facet of it might make it seem cheap.

Just a thought.

This might be a waste of the space, but my dream for this area would be to recreate a small historic district with 1, 2, and 3 story brick buildings, etc. (much like what was lost during urban renewal). Maybe even mimic some of the iconic OKC buildings that were lost during that time, at least on the facade side.

Cool storefronts on the ground floor with loft apartments on the upper floors.

I believe this would be incredible placed between the Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park and would add a lot of charm to the area and more housing downtown. Great infill.

I feel like more and more people are looking for these kinds of step-back-in-time experiences (think downtown Guthrie), although I recognize the new build facet of it might make it seem cheap.

Just a thought.

Too much demand there for 3 story buildings to be it. Need mid or even hi-rise to make it fiscally make sense.

Some massive surface lots. You could fit an entire Pappadeux down there.

When the Ford dealership closed in 2011, Fred Hall & Co. said they were working on development plans.

That was 13 years ago and absolutely nothing has happened here since. At some point, the City has to go forward, especially since that area lies between two incredibly popular parks, with lots of people walking back and forth and the streetcar stop right there.


Whatever happens here, I know there is a priority of maintaining the "Harvey Spine" as that is indicated in all long-term planning docs.

It probably won't remain a street for cars, but whatever does happen would require REHCO petitioning to close those streets and obtain rights to develop on City land -- and likely pay handsomely.

the city actually presented to the planning commission to close those streets ... a long time ago .... it was continued forever then removed from the agenda ..

the city actually presented to the planning commission to close those streets ... a long time ago .... it was continued forever then removed from the agenda ..

And then there was the whole mess with the convention center, but even when that was proposed for this site, the Harvey Spine was to be preserved for pedestrians.

I understand why the city redid the SW 2nd and Harvey curb cuts, but I feel like when the development is done on the area, the whole intersection will most likely be closed and redeveloped.

I can see keeping 2nd street open .. (maybe even eventually reconnecting all the way to shields .. ) but there is very little use for Harvey to stay open as a street .... now maybe rip it in up and make it a pedestrian only access ..

Too much demand there for 3 story buildings to be it. Need mid or even hi-rise to make it fiscally make sense.

This is by far the most mind boggling “equation” in urban development to me. The fact that low rise buildings stood downtown for years. People lived, shopped, and worked in these buildings. Years later they are blown up and cleared to be surface lots. These lots sit empty for decades because the land is “too valuable” to build anything other than a high rise on. Makes you think the land actually isn’t as valuable as it is made out to be. This isn’t just an OKC thing, it’s every major city in America. Empty land is better than reasonable development

This might be a waste of the space, but my dream for this area would be to recreate a small historic district with 1, 2, and 3 story brick buildings, etc. (much like what was lost during urban renewal). Maybe even mimic some of the iconic OKC buildings that were lost during that time, at least on the facade side.

Cool storefronts on the ground floor with loft apartments on the upper floors.

I believe this would be incredible placed between the Myriad Gardens and Scissortail Park and would add a lot of charm to the area and more housing downtown. Great infill.

I feel like more and more people are looking for these kinds of step-back-in-time experiences (think downtown Guthrie), although I recognize the new build facet of it might make it seem cheap.

Just a thought.

I always thought a good Market Hall would fit perfectly between the two parks and serve the downtown community, as well the entire city, well. Ultimate goal would be something like Markthal in Rotterdam, but there are several examples all over the US, but not just a "food hall", but something with the vision of Rockwood Market Hall in Portland:

"Rockwood Market Hall, a non-profit organization, is a welcoming open-air market in Downtown Rockwood that features micro-retail and restaurant spaces, micro-grocers, a commissary kitchen, rentable cold storage, flagship full-size restaurants, and office space. Our goal is to offer fresh, healthy food options to our community along with opportunities for entrepreneurship and vitality."



https://www.tripadvisor.com/Attraction_Review-g188632-d7129022-Reviews-Markthal-Rotterdam_South_Holland_Province.html
https://www.tasteofhome.com/collection/best-food-halls/?srsltid=AfmBOoqhb1wRF8aJed7WY5ZPTTtgewoqYcT45-nEbEm5NhD5nv6SBDNo

Milwaukee Public Market (https://milwaukeepublicmarket.org) is a great model that would absolutely be perfect here. In this case, you having housing on top of it.

Milwaukee Public Market (https://milwaukeepublicmarket.org) is a great model that would absolutely be perfect here. In this case, you having housing on top of it.

It's fantastic but that was/is heavily subsidized.

It's fantastic but that was/is heavily subsidized.

To be fair, I am sure whatever goes here will be as well...

Urbanized,
Appreciate the color here on REHCO. You mentioned REHCO ownership group above, who actually owns the site and is there any overlap with Thunder ownership? At one point, I thought there was but a little unsure now.

Agree that getting this right is very important and patience was smart. Hopefully they will start kicking tires on development ideas once the renderings for the new arena start coming out next year. Would think they would need to see what the plan for the area surrounding the new Arena will be and even perhaps what the plan for the Paycom site will be before they move, but hopefully those data points will start coming into focus in the next year or so and then they can start planning in earnest on what will work best here.
Yes, Bob Howard is (to my understanding) controlling investor in REHCO, and he also holds an ownership interest in the Thunder.

To be fair, I am sure whatever goes here will be as well...

I mean the entire operation is continually subsidized in addition to all types of upfront costs to build it.

^^^^^^^^^
Meaning operating subsidy, I take it? Would make sense.