Thankfully, the vote affirmation by the citizens passed and the council vote by a similar margin as well.

Admire James Cooper, he saw that this would pass and figured out a potential way to reward his constituents interests.

Let's see how many minority construction companies are awarded bids in the completion of the arena development.

Isn't it just going to be Flintco and all of their buddies?

Isn't it just going to be Flintco and all of their buddies?

Since this is a City project, any demolition or construction contracts have to go out for public bid.

Doesn't REHCO have common ownership with Thunder through Robert Howard? If so, any chance they design certain aspects of REHCO to compliment? It's about time plans are designed for this site as well.

Since this is a City project, any demolition or construction contracts have to go out for public bid.



Isn't it just going to be Flintco and all of their buddies?

This is where the smaller firms who will be putting in bids will lose out; they don't have the capital to secure the lower bid.

Recall the bidding on the Downtown Arena (Paycom Center) for $66 million 1999 bid by Flintco: https://www.oklahoman.com/story/news/1999/03/12/arenas-low-bid-astounds-city-leaders/62250076007/.

We came up with an inferior project; remember why the NHL rejected Oklahoma City's bid in the 1997 NHL 4-team expansion derby; the NHL said that there was no way Oklahoma City could build a quality NHL spec arena for $89 million--they were correct.

Former Mayor Ron Norrick and Clay Bennett were behind the bid that ultimately lost out to Columbus, OH who had the backing from Nationwide Insurance to build a $175 million arena in 1998, eventually opened in 2000.

Mayor Mick Cornett made the pitch for the more lucrative NBA temporarily hosting the New Orleans Hornets (following Katrina); then owner George Shinn was so impressed with OKC he didn't want to leave and return to the Crescent City.

Now we have an opportunity to correct the mistake we made in 1999. The original plans for the Downtown Arena was to build an arena with a basketball seating capacity of 19,599 and an 18,100 seat facility for hockey.

Let's get it right; this time we have a billion dollars to work with.

Isn't it just going to be Flintco and all of their buddies?

Flintco still exists, but was bought out and has a parent company now. Not sure they can still be called native owned.

Flintco website: https://flintco.com/

I'm sure you are right but simply amazing this hasn't even been discussed to date.

I love OKC more than anyone, but all the big decisions with tax money are still made in back rooms among a handful of people. In many ways, we still operate like a small town.

this is part of the public and signed development agreement

PBCS&E can negotiate with the City for a ground lease to develop any unused property on the new arena site at market rate, with revenue from the lease to be used for the arena’s maintenance and improvements.
Construction

I will let the cat out of the bag…. The city isn't being transparent as I suspect the thunder ownership will own the development around the arena. Just my hunch. I am guessing a really cheap 100 year ground lease for the out parcels….

them getting a ground lease is already public information .. in the development agreement

^

And any revenue from that ground lease must go back to the arena, so effectively they will be paying rent to themselves.

I don't know of anyone screaming here so you can calm down with that.

Its very well known that voting is not an equal institution in this state and country. Not all folks have time to take out of their day to vote and this was special election in December (when folks are worried about buying their kids christmas presents) Its the same reason we have the political figures we do in this state.

Not to mention there was a huge ad campaign behind this. Some folks had 900 million reasons to spend a few million on ad boosts. The NO campaign did not have those same special interests,

At the end of the day the arena is getting built. But folks shouldnt be surprised when its a few select folks who make tons of money off of the development.

this is so LOL there is really not even a place to start ..

^

And any revenue from that ground lease must go back to the arena, so effectively they will be paying rent to themselves.

considering the City owns the arena and would be on the hook for maintaining and improving it anyway .. I think that makes sense ..

considering the City owns the arena and would be on the hook for maintaining and improving it anyway .. I think that makes sense ..

Any overage from the sales tax also must be put toward improvements and maintenance.

It's all just a huge self-generating fund that has to be spent on the arena and to the benefit of the team ownership group.


I said it at the time and I'll say it again: it's by far the worst deal a city has ever signed with an NBA team.

Any overage from the sales tax also must be put toward improvements and maintenance.

It's all just a huge self-generating fund that has to be spent on the arena and to the benefit of the team ownership group.


I said it at the time and I'll say it again: it's by far the worst deal a city has ever signed with an NBA team.

I get where you’re coming from but if it results in a world class arena and entertainment district that is a center piece for downtown over the next 30-50, years…does it really matter in this case?

https://journalrecord.com/2024/10/architects-start-work-on-okcs-new-1b-arena/

Jenni Carlson interviewed the new architect.

Here are some of the highlights:


First renderings are expected this summer
No preconceived ideas; will spend months listening to the the city and Thunder
It should be threaded into the city fabric, not plunked down
Everyone wants something unique and world-class
Outdoor space will bring in the existing gardens/park

I get where you’re coming from but if it results in a world class arena and entertainment district that is a center piece for downtown over the next 30-50, years…does it really matter in this case?

Sure it does. Comps tend to matter in real estate deals, no?

Sure it does. Comps tend to matter in real estate deals, no?

Really seems like an apples to pumpkins comparison.

Sure it does. Comps tend to matter in real estate deals, no?

did you miss where the team has to pay market rate for the ground lease??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mE1KDfG5eJY

I'd love to learn what you guys think about this article:
https://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/19/are-pro-sports-teams-economic-winners-cities/

I'd love to learn what you guys think about this article:
https://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/19/are-pro-sports-teams-economic-winners-cities/

I think OKC and smaller cities are different in that the value is the name recognition.

People in the Philippines or Estonia already have heard of Los Angeles and Chicago, but OKC is new to them. That might elevate the city as a whole and bring some investment from people who also otherwise would not have heard of OKC.

Whether the cost is worth it is the argument. I've already said my side, but I do hope that we get the best possible stadium and that im wrong.

I'd love to learn what you guys think about this article:
https://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/19/are-pro-sports-teams-economic-winners-cities/

a 9 year old opinion article?? I think it is pretty trash ..

and as was said chicago / LA and OKC has very little in common ..

I'd love to learn what you guys think about this article:
https://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/19/are-pro-sports-teams-economic-winners-cities/

Yes, let’s relitigate an argument we had in the first 35 pages of this thread over the entire second half of 2023 based on an article that’s 9 years old...

PoliSciGuy and others made some fairly strong arguments against this (and public financing for stadiums in general) earlier in the thread. You can review those and the responses to them if you want to see what people here think about the premise of the article you linked.

Let's try a newer article then: https://journalistsresource.org/economics/sports-stadium-public-financing/

Again, what is the point of going back and rehashing an argument we had before the vote last year? This is movement for the sake of motion, at this point. Whether in favor or not, the vote passed and is binding. So it is an exercise of futility now.

I am all out of idioms to describe it.

I'd love to learn what you guys think about this article:
https://www.marketplace.org/2015/03/19/are-pro-sports-teams-economic-winners-cities/

That article is almost 10 years old.....

Again, when you have medium size cities under 2 million MSA population like Memphis (1,335,674), Oklahoma City (1,477,926) and Salt Lake City (1,267,864) with major league franchises trying to compete with cities on that next level; yet have cities like Louisville (1,365,557), Birmingham (1,184,290) and Tulsa (1,044,757) who may or may not be aspiring to lure their first big league franchise for international exposure. Louisville is as major league as you can get in horse racing, but OKC edged out Louisville to temporarily host the NBA Hornets.

Take our sister city of Tulsa, they have two more Fortune 1,000 companies than OKC who has the state's only Big League franchise. Metropolitan Areas & Fortune 1000 Companies: https://proximityone.com/metros_fortune1000.htm

Tulsa is also on the verge of attracting some very large high paying jobs which could boost the area's tourists base.

Tulsa loves to compete with cities above them. They have the BOK Center (BB 17,839. IH 17,096) which could be used to temporality house an NBA or NHL team like OKC did with the Hornets.

Tulsa seized on the opportunity to bring the State's 10,000 attendee FFA convention to Tulsa when OKC couldn't guarantee them future dates in Paycom Center. Yet, our city was more centrally located to support this huge state convention--will there be dates available in the new OKC billion arena to offer the FFA when their contract expires in T-Town?

Are they going to be able to host concerts or play hockey in the new arena or is it basketball only?

Are they going to be able to host concerts or play hockey in the new arena or is it basketball only?

I mean, yes? It will have basketball sight lines. But yes, they can have concerts and hockey. Not built for hockey (see the Delta Center looking very weird in its hockey setup) but it can be played there.

Are they going to be able to host concerts or play hockey in the new arena or is it basketball only?

I’m not certain about its suitability for hockey, but it will definitely be able to host concerts. Although the initial cost is estimated at $900 million to $1 billion, I believe we’ll end up spending around $1.2 to $1.5 billion. I would imagine it will incorporate technology from both the new Intuit Dome in LA and have the architecture of the Chase Center in SF.

Again, when you have medium size cities under 2 million MSA population like Memphis (1,335,674), Oklahoma City (1,477,926) and Salt Lake City (1,267,864) with major league franchises trying to compete with cities on that next level; yet have cities like Louisville (1,365,557), Birmingham (1,184,290) and Tulsa (1,044,757) who may or may not be aspiring to lure their first big league franchise for international exposure. Louisville is as major league as you can get in horse racing, but OKC edged out Louisville to temporarily host the NBA Hornets.

Take our sister city of Tulsa, they have two more Fortune 1,000 companies than OKC who has the state's only Big League franchise. Metropolitan Areas & Fortune 1000 Companies: https://proximityone.com/metros_fortune1000.htm

Tulsa is also on the verge of attracting some very large high paying jobs which could boost the area's tourists base.

Tulsa loves to compete with cities above them. They have the BOK Center (BB 17,839. IH 17,096) which could be used to temporality house an NBA or NHL team like OKC did with the Hornets.

Tulsa seized on the opportunity to bring the State's 10,000 attendee FFA convention to Tulsa when OKC couldn't guarantee them future dates in Paycom Center. Yet, our city was more centrally located to support this huge state convention--will there be dates available in the new OKC billion arena to offer the FFA when their contract expires in T-Town?

Honestly, who cares about the FFA convention when you have an NBA franchise? Tulsa can keep that. OKC is about to build a $1 billion arena, something Tulsa could only dream of, not to mention our new convention center. I’d bet my next paycheck that the year it’s completed or the year after, we’ll host the NBA All-Star game. Let that sink in—anyone who doesn’t think that’s a big deal is out of their mind! That will be the single biggest event the state has ever hosted, along with OKC having the '28 Olympics. The comparison between OKC and Tulsa is outdated. Since getting the Thunder, OKC’s trajectory has far surpassed Tulsa’s. Anyone who thinks there’s still a comparison is living in the past.

These articles are ridiculous. Are they truly saying LA and Chicago would be better off without sports teams?? Laughable.
Yes, they are major world cities from an economic scale, and Chicago would still be the #1 US business destination and LA would still be the #1 entertainment destination. But would either city be better off without their multitudes of pro-teams?

Even more laughable is the implication the first article makes that downtown LA is worse off with Staples Center (whatever it's called now) given the relocation there of the Kings and Lakers. ... Or that Inglewood is better off without the Lakers at the Forum. ... These people must be smoking crack, seriuosly.

As was already mentioned by the sane people on this forum (my opinion) - the NBA has provided far more than economic benefit to OKC since we've had them in the form of the Hornets and especially the Thunder, it isn't even worth debating. I mean, OKC being mentioned with the likes of Chicago and LA in the same breath, speaks incredible volumes. And we only have one pro team, imagine if we had two. We've also had the benefit of having good teams just about the entire tenure, or at the minimum, OKC has always been the media darling of sort of 'america's team'.

Think Louisville wouldn't like that?

Let's try a newer article then: https://journalistsresource.org/economics/sports-stadium-public-financing/

Echoing what PhiAlpha graciously said. We sparred a lot about this topic earlier when the voting was ramping up. In short, they're not outright economic winners (my point) but there are intangibles they provide that for smaller cities like OKC are worth the economic cost (others' responses). You can read the, uh, spirited back and forth in the old thread here: https://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=47184

It's not really worth relitigating here since the vote is done and the stadium is on its way to being built.

Honestly, who cares about the FFA convention when you have an NBA franchise? Tulsa can keep that. OKC is about to build a $1 billion arena, something Tulsa could only dream of, not to mention our new convention center. I’d bet my next paycheck that the year it’s completed or the year after, we’ll host the NBA All-Star game. Let that sink in—anyone who doesn’t think that’s a big deal is out of their mind! That will be the single biggest event the state has ever hosted, along with OKC having the '28 Olympics. The comparison between OKC and Tulsa is outdated. Since getting the Thunder, OKC’s trajectory has far surpassed Tulsa’s. Anyone who thinks there’s still a comparison is living in the past.

Hope that paycheck is not your main source of income. :D

We would love to host an NBA All Star Weekend to show case our city.

Oklahoma City doesn't meet the hotel criteria for hosting an NBA All Star Game. OKC would need 6,000 luxury hotel rooms comparable to the 605 Omni; probably 5 hotels - Sheraton 395, Wyndham Grand 311, Courtyard by Marriott 225, Colcord 108 and the Hilton Skirvin 225 would qualify. That's five DT hotels totaling 1,264 luxury rooms plus our largest 605 room Omni = 1,869 which means we are 4,131 luxury hotel rooms shy of being considered for an NBA All Star Weekend.

The 404 room OKANA resort is more than 3 miles from DT and doesn't qualify by NBA All Star standards.

Let's get that 10,000 attendee FFA state convention we lost to Tulsa back in our city. That's probably 5,000 hotel room nights x three days (15,000 room nights) added to our local economy.

I was just thinking about how different the new OKC arena might be from the BOK Center in Tulsa. Built for $178 million ($264 million today), the BOK Center set a high standard, but OKC’s new $900 million arena will have so much more to work with in terms of design, space, and technology. It’ll be interesting to see what almost four times the money can do.

I was just thinking about how different the new OKC arena might be from the BOK Center in Tulsa. Built for $178 million ($264 million today), the BOK Center set a high standard, but OKC’s new $900 million arena will have so much more to work with in terms of design, space, and technology. It’ll be interesting to see what almost four times the money can do.

You're correct. The architectural firms involved seem IMO to downplay what they are going to deliver. Just not sure what specs the city will require other than a 750,000 sq., footage total minimum or more. Nothing definitive about seating capacity, luxury suites, lodge boxes or premium seating.

BTW: Utah NHL Hockey Club is averaging a sellout of 11,131 at the Delta Center in SLC. I'd argue that if this team were playing in Tulsa's BOK Center they would be drawing a minimum of 15,000 - 16,000 a night or more.

They are selling out their NBA Jazz at the Detlta Center as well - 18,175. With the hockey configuration added; the Delta Center's basketball capacity shrunk from 18,302 to 18,175.

The Delta Center opened with an original NBA seating capacity 19,911.

I’m not certain about its suitability for hockey, but it will definitely be able to host concerts. Although the initial cost is estimated at $900 million to $1 billion, I believe we’ll end up spending around $1.2 to $1.5 billion. I would imagine it will incorporate technology from both the new Intuit Dome in LA and have the architecture of the Chase Center in SF.

What technology are you thinking about? The Halo Board is super obnoxious and having a microphone in every seat feels gimmicky.

Let's get that 10,000 attendee FFA state convention we lost to Tulsa back in our city. That's probably 5,000 hotel room nights x three days (15,000 room nights) added to our local economy.

Great sentiment! I see you mention this a lot. It’d be cool, but I don’t think the new arena will get that particular convention back. The reason it moved was because of conflicting dates with the NBA. They seem to like to use two buildings.

https://www.newson6.com/story/60dce7ac2a3b580c110c2deb/state-ffa-convention-moves-from-okc-to-tulsa

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/education/after-96-years-oklahoma-ffa-convention-comes-to-tulsa/article_1595559e-c26f-11ec-b6b0-0fcd15d7b2b8.html#tncms-source=login

^

Yes, the reason OKC lost that event was due to the Cox Center going under an exclusive contract with Prairie Surf.

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on which side of the block loading docks should be placed. It seems pretty unlikely that it will be East or West...so should North or South Bear that burden?

I'd love to hear people's thoughts on which side of the block loading docks should be placed. It seems pretty unlikely that it will be East or West...so should North or South Bear that burden?

Whichever allows for the quickest and easiest in and out. Need to be able to host back to back large-scale concerts. Even BOK can.

BTW: Utah NHL Hockey Club is averaging a sellout of 11,131 at the Delta Center in SLC. I'd argue that if this team were playing in Tulsa's BOK Center they would be drawing a minimum of 15,000 - 16,000 a night or more.

They are selling out their NBA Jazz at the Detlta Center as well - 18,175. With the hockey configuration added; the Delta Center's basketball capacity shrunk from 18,302 to 18,175.

The Delta Center opened with an original NBA seating capacity 19,911.

The Delta Center is an NBA arena with NBA sight lines. And hockey rinks are quite a bit bigger than NBA courts.

I don't know what the hockey configuration is for BOK, but the NHL has very particular rules on sight lines, I believe.

The Delta Center is an NBA arena with NBA sight lines. And hockey rinks are quite a bit bigger than NBA courts.

I don't know what the hockey configuration is for BOK, but the NHL has very particular rules on sight lines, I believe.

Tulsa's BOK Center is very unique in versatility of hosting both NBA and NHL games. There's not that much difference in seating capacity.

NBA, NCAA basketball games: 17,839 vs NHL hockey games 17,096. A 743 difference in transitioning from basketball to ice hockey.

I don't know of an arena in the U. S. that has that flexibility where they don't lose a ton of seats.


Example of some selected NBA arenas:

Gainbridge Fieldhouse, Indianapolis - BB 17,274 - IH 11,651 (5,623 difference)
FedEx Forum, Memphis - BB 17,794 - IH 16,411 (1,383 difference)
Spectrum Center, Charlotte - BB 19,077 - IH 14,100 (4,0977 difference)
TD Garden, Boston - BB 19,156 - IH 17,850 (1,306 difference)

The SLC Delta Center doesn't possess the flexibility of Tulsa's BOK Center when hosting both NBA and NHL games.

César Pelli did an outstanding job with the architectural design (Exterior and Interior) of Tulsa's BOK Center.

BTW: Utah NHL Hockey Club is averaging a sellout of 11,131 at the Delta Center in SLC. I'd argue that if this team were playing in Tulsa's BOK Center they would be drawing a minimum of 15,000 - 16,000 a night or more.

They are selling out their NBA Jazz at the Detlta Center as well - 18,175. With the hockey configuration added; the Delta Center's basketball capacity shrunk from 18,302 to 18,175.

The Delta Center opened with an original NBA seating capacity 19,911.

the hockey 11k is temp for this year only .. it will go way up next season ..

What is going to be the new name of the new arena? Do we still think it will be Paycom?

I was just thinking about how different the new OKC arena might be from the BOK Center in Tulsa.

It will be a lot different / better than the BOK Center. The comps are recently built NBA arenas, not something like BOK. That would really make you wonder where all the money went.

BOK is Paycom in a prettier wrapper.

And we're throwing away Paycom to get something much better.

What is going to be the new name of the new arena? Do we still think it will be Paycom?

Yes. The PAYCOM contract is with the THUNDER, not OKC. So as long as the Thunder exist, that contract does, as well...

BOK is Paycom in a prettier wrapper.

And we're throwing away Paycom to get something much better.

and in lots of ways it is a significantly worse arena

BOK is Paycom in a prettier wrapper.

And we're throwing away Paycom to get something much better.

BOK’s footprint seems quite a bit bigger with a huge open lobby area and wider concourses, especially in the upper deck and is generally prettier. Inside the arena itself though, paycom is way nicer.

Yes. The PAYCOM contract is with the THUNDER, not OKC. So as long as the Thunder exist, that contract does, as well...
I thought those contracts were only like a 7-year deal

The Paycom contract started in the 2021-22 season and will run for 15 years.

We're fortunate to have Paycom, a solutions based company in Oklahoma City. Paycom's strength is reflected in its growth; especially during the height of Covid and CEO Chad Richison who have given back to our community.

Proud to have the Paycom name carry over to the new arena; it will cement Oklahoma City into the NBA, concerts, sports community and a conclave for many future events; it will be our welcoming space for many.

We're fortunate to have Paycom, a solutions based company in Oklahoma City. Paycom's strength is reflected in its growth; especially during the height of Covid and CEO Chad Richison who have given back to our community.

Proud to have the Paycom name carry over to the new arena; it will cement Oklahoma City into the NBA, concerts, sports community and a conclave for many future events; it will be our welcoming space for many.

This ad has been paid for by Paycom. LOL

This ad has been paid for by Paycom. LOL

Send me cash on a blue.dot card, PhiAlpha; need to pay my consultants :wink: .

Send me cash on a blue.dot card, PhiAlpha; need to pay my consultants :wink: .
:tongue:

https://venuesnow.com/dont-forget-concerts-at-new-okc-arena/


Groundbreaking is tentatively scheduled for late 2025, with the intention to open in time for the 2028 Summer Olympics. Oklahoma City was selected as a satellite site for Olympic women’s softball competition and whitewater rafting events, and city officials anticipate using the new arena for hospitality supporting the Olympic Games.

^

As I've mentioned several times, the Olympic games set a hard date to work towards and all types of projects will be doing everything they can to be substantially complete.

Love to see the arena will be ready for the world.

I'm in LA now, not for the Thunder game but watching it on Kodi so I can see local commentators instead of the Clippers. Anyway, yesterday I went to Costco to pickup some food for a BBQ and I drove by the new Clippers arena. Wow, that place is nice. OKC needs to look at what they have done. They've created a complete fan experience. I don't like the design of the outside with all of the exposed metal but the fan experience is very nice. I do kind of hate to see The Myriad get raised. I have so many memories of the different concerts I went to. It would be nice if they let the people vote on a design. Get 3-5 designs and let the people decide. Afterall, our tax dollars are building it. Also, I'd like to see more seating. Make the building oval shaped rather than round.