Nope, the Barons could draw 10,000 a night, still wouldn't get to play at the Peake.

If they drew 10,000 per night they could still easily be accommodated at the Cox. I also suspect that they can get a much better monetary arrangement at the Cox than they could ever hope for at the Peake.

Also according to a recent article the Thunder prefer and like to play home games on Sunday over Saturday games. That in itself create a lot of scheduling flexibility.

Also according to a recent article the Thunder prefer and like to play home games on Sunday over Saturday games. That in itself create a lot of scheduling flexibility.

Actually, I don't think the Thunder have a lot to say about having Saturday or Sunday night games. The NBA is the deciding factor in that.

Last year we had very few weekend games. Every team in the NBA wants weekend games for the same reason. I think our owners have worked hard to keep the New Years Eve game at home every year but beyond that its potluck.

No, I am not from Seattle but it sure seems that the city bows down to everything the Thunder wants. Why don't we just rename the place Thunderville and name Kevin Durant mayor.

That can't be done over night. They are taking it one street at a time.

Okay, now on a serious note - once the new convention center is done the Cox Center, including everything on that block, is coming down. There is no reason to keep it, and even if there was, it is so much better to redevelop that land and return it to the tax rolls. At that point the Barons are going to have 1 of 4 choices 1) Move to the Chesapeake Arena, 2) Fund a renovation of State Fair Park, 3) Build their own arena, or 4) Move to another city. I suspect option one will be everyone's first and only choice. Besides, I think the Thunder get a share of the concession for every non-Thunder event so they will be more than happy to have others there. As for weekend games - the Thunder don't play that many home weekend games and they sure don't play 2 night in a row. The arena can switch from basketball to hockey in a few hours easily allowing both team to play in the same arena on the same day.

That can't be done over night. They are taking it one street at a time.

Okay, now on a serious note - once the new convention center is done the Cox Center, including everything on that block, is coming down. There is no reason to keep it, and even if there was, it is so much better to redevelop that land and return it to the tax rolls. At that point the Barons are going to have 1 of 4 choices 1) Move to the Chesapeake Arena, 2) Fund a renovation of State Fair Park, 3) Build their own arena, or 4) Move to another city. I suspect option one will be everyone's first and only choice. Besides, I think the Thunder get a share of the concession for every non-Thunder event so they will be more than happy to have others there. As for weekend games - the Thunder don't play that many home weekend games and they sure don't play 2 night in a row. The arena can switch from basketball to hockey in a few hours easily allowing both team to play in the same arena on the same day.

I don't understand why so many people are so gung ho to tear down the Myriad. The thing has not outlived its use yet and just received more renovations just 3 years ago that you don't see (new ice plant, completely updating the locker rooms, adding the VIP area on the northside of the seating bowl). If the Barons have to move the Chesapeake the so be it but to me there is nothing about that building that says hockey and Barons fans will be constantly reminded that you are using the Thunder's arena. The Myriad has hockey history streaming out of it's pores with all the old teams that played in the original CHL (original Blazers and the Stars) and new CHL. Just would be a shame to tear down a perfectly good working building just because. I.M. Pei would love that idea.

Well, its still going to be at least ten years away before anything happens. At least 30 percent of the Cox Center will sit empty and never used once the new convention center is completed unless the city just uses the old exhibit spaces as warehouse space. The nice ballrooms on the north side would be the only reason the city doesn't initially tear down the cox center since it probably has a nice juicy contract with the Renaissance hotel.

Edit: It also depends on the economic climate 10 years from now determining what happens.

No, I am not from Seattle but it sure seems that the city bows down to everything the Thunder wants. Why don't we just rename the place Thunderville and name Kevin Durant mayor.

Guess you don't understand how much national POSITIVE publicity the Thunder provides OKC ?

I wouldn't mind the eastern portion of the Cox to be torn down. Keep the arena and space to support the facility, but tear down the eastern portion of the building to allow future development. Partially developing the site allows us to keep the arena and we could maximize use by introducing mixed-used structures such as hotel/office/ with retail on the ground. It would be right across the street from our future intermodal hub as well and would help transform that section of Gaylord into a more walkable area.

We've seen this toyed around with a couple of times, rendered in various studies and plans.

I wouldn't mind the eastern portion of the Cox to be torn down. Keep the arena and space to support the facility, but tear down the eastern portion of the building to allow future development. Partially developing the site allows us to keep the arena and we could maximize use by introducing mixed-used structures such as hotel/office/ with retail on the ground. It would be right across the street from our future intermodal hub as well and would help transform that section of Gaylord into a more walkable area.

We've seen this toyed around with a couple of times, rendered in various studies and plans.

This was my thinking as well. Find a way to add mixed use street frontage/towers/etc around the arena, and leave it in place.

Or we could tear it down to restore the street grid and build something like Dallas's victory plaza along broadway leading into CHK.

People seem to be forgetting that the Blazers were the tenant in the Arena by default and played games there when the Sonics/Thunder came to town. After it became an NMA arena, reportedly they couldn't come to new lease terms and moved over to the Cox. part of the lease terms at the Cox included the upgrades mentioned above. As much as I liked the Blazers, even at the hight of their popularity they didn't need the seating capacity of the Arena on a regular basis (they even installed curtains in the upper sections to concentrate spectators so it wouldn't look empty. And according to most of what I have read, attandance for the Barons is less than the Blazers (most of which can probably be atributed to the Barons not giving out near as many free tickets as the Blazers did). I am not a hockey fan per se but went to a few Blazers games and enjoyed it. There may be more like me that weren't hockey fans but Blazers fans. Speaking of which, why is the practice facility near Crossroads Mall still have the Blazers moniker and logo???

No, I am not from Seattle but it sure seems that the city bows down to everything the Thunder wants. Why don't we just rename the place Thunderville and name Kevin Durant mayor.

Lets do it. He has my vote!

People seem to be forgetting that the Blazers were the tenant in the Arena by default and played games there when the Sonics/Thunder came to town. After it became an NMA arena, reportedly they couldn't come to new lease terms and moved over to the Cox. part of the lease terms at the Cox included the upgrades mentioned above. As much as I liked the Blazers, even at the hight of their popularity they didn't need the seating capacity of the Arena on a regular basis (they even installed curtains in the upper sections to concentrate spectators so it wouldn't look empty. And according to most of what I have read, attandance for the Barons is less than the Blazers (most of which can probably be atributed to the Barons not giving out near as many free tickets as the Blazers did). I am not a hockey fan per se but went to a few Blazers games and enjoyed it. There may be more like me that weren't hockey fans but Blazers fans. Speaking of which, why is the practice facility near Crossroads Mall still have the Blazers moniker and logo???

That's it name. I guess the owners don't feel like changing it.

I guarantee the Thunder wouldn't let the Barons use the Chesapeake Arena. They want to hog the place all to themselves during the season. God forbid they share!!


I am a Barons fan and agree with kwhey, Clay Bennett and the Thunder would not let the Barons use the peake in a million years.

Did you create two screennames so you could back yourself up?? lol

Check this out my friend:

Arenas - SMG (http://smgworld.com/facility_type/arenas/)

Do your homework. Both facilities are managed by the same company. I'm betting that company could easily accommodate both sports in one arena along with a slew of other activities without disturbing each other one iota. It's been done before.

Did you create two screennames so you could back yourself up?? lol

Check this out my friend:

Arenas - SMG (http://smgworld.com/facility_type/arenas/)

Do your homework. Both facilities are managed by the same company. I'm betting that company could easily accommodate both sports in one arena along with a slew of other activities without disturbing each other one iota. It's been done before.

To add to that: If LA could host the multiple home playoff games for the Lakers, The Clippers, The Kings, and regular season Sparks games at the Staples Center during same week, I'm sure SMG could handle both the Thunder, Barons, and various concerts at the Peake throughout both of their seasons.

When the Arena opened the city signed a contract with SMG that tied all 3 venues capable of hosting Ice Hockey. The Arena, Myriad and State Fair Arena. It was SMG's decision that NO MORE sports events would be held in the Myriad. The deal sounded sweet to OKC. they were promised SMG would bring in all the big concerts, Conventions...stuff like that.
When the Blazers were forced to the Arena, costs went up tenfold. The first few games The whole 3rd level was open, all the concesions, restrooms, ushers. Arena staff outnumbered fans. The Blazers (Bob Funk) was at SMG's mercy. It was agreed to close the top level & curb costs.
The State Fair Arena was built especially to accomodate Ice Hockey (NHL sized rink) The seating & sight lines were great. The Myriad was
very friendly for Hockey, the height level between rows & offset seats made visibliity good.
The arena was built to get the maximum number of seats on a minimum footprint. The seats are much smaller than the Myriad, so moving after you're seated is tough, most rows it's near impossible for somone to cross infront of you while you're seated. I had great seats for Blazers games, but was unable to view the whole ice.
After the way Blazers fans were abandoned, no Hockey at all for a year and serious price increases, I attend 1-2 Hockey games a year.
I would not attend at all if they were forced to move across the street.

Yeah, the Cox Convention is used for hockey because its easy, convenient, and makes more economic sense to the Barons and SMG. It has little to do with the Thunder. I'm sure they don't care if the Barons play at Chesapeake as long as they don't use their locker room facilities and don't get in the way of NBA scheduling. The AHL is used to being second to the NBA or the NHL. Obviously, money and being able to fill arenas will get you more leverage.

When the Arena opened the city signed a contract with SMG that tied all 3 venues capable of hosting Ice Hockey. The Arena, Myriad and State Fair Arena. It was SMG's decision that NO MORE sports events would be held in the Myriad. The deal sounded sweet to OKC. they were promised SMG would bring in all the big concerts, Conventions...stuff like that.
When the Blazers were forced to the Arena, costs went up tenfold. The first few games The whole 3rd level was open, all the concesions, restrooms, ushers. Arena staff outnumbered fans. The Blazers (Bob Funk) was at SMG's mercy. It was agreed to close the top level & curb costs.
The State Fair Arena was built especially to accomodate Ice Hockey (NHL sized rink) The seating & sight lines were great. The Myriad was
very friendly for Hockey, the height level between rows & offset seats made visibliity good.
The arena was built to get the maximum number of seats on a minimum footprint. The seats are much smaller than the Myriad, so moving after you're seated is tough, most rows it's near impossible for somone to cross infront of you while you're seated. I had great seats for Blazers games, but was unable to view the whole ice.
After the way Blazers fans were abandoned, no Hockey at all for a year and serious price increases, I attend 1-2 Hockey games a year.
I would not attend at all if they were forced to move across the street.

Pretty sure the seats are larger at the Peake

After the way Blazers fans were abandoned, no Hockey at all for a year and serious price increases, I attend 1-2 Hockey games a year.
I would not attend at all if they were forced to move across the street.


Are you serious? Moving on from the Blazers was the right move, the CHL is terrible hockey and the AHL is the best level of hockey aside from of course the NHL, price increases? It's a higher level, what do you expect?

I cannot believe you (and others I know personally) are holding a grudge over the move to the AHL and losing the Blazers.

As far as IF they ever move to the Peake, I am a Barons fan and will watch this team wherever they play in this city.

Get over your grudge. The Blazers have been gone since 2009, they are not coming back.

Pretty sure the seats are larger at the Peake

They aren't.


Are you serious? Moving on from the Blazers was the right move, the CHL is terrible hockey and the AHL is the best level of hockey aside from of course the NHL, prices increases? It's a higher level, what do you expect?

I cannot believe you (and others I know personally) are holding a grudge over the move to the AHL and losing the Blazers.

As far as IF they ever move to the Peake, I am a Barons fan and will watch this team wherever they play in this city.

Get over your grudge. The Blazers have been gone since 2009, they are not coming back.

^^^THIS!!!

I was at 7-Eleven a while back wearing a Barons shirt, and the cashier struck up a conversation with me about how he had grown up with the Blazers and just couldn't get behind the Barons... he was VERY uninformed. He said things like how he disliked the fact that the Barons "pushed out" the Blazers... they weren't busy, and I had a good 20 minute conversation with him, I explained to him the series of which lead to the Blazers-Barons switch, and I explained the higher level of hockey. By the end of the conversation, he said that I had convinced him to get tickets to the next game. Obviously I have no idea if he did so or not, but the point is, most people here know little about hockey, and in their minds "this new team took away our old team."

I will say this: While we are known as a football, basketball and baseball state (and we are becoming known as a soccer state due to OKCFC and Tulsa Athletics attendance and TV ratings for major matches from abroad), we DO have a reputation as a hockey friendly state... yes, the fanbase is smaller, but VERY loyal. The Barons are last in attendance but in the top five in season ticket renewal. And that small but rabid fanbase buys merchandise... I see t-shirts and car flags all over town (obviously not in as high a number as Thunder merch, but much... MUCH higher than RedHawks merch)... one of the first things I ever bought my son was a Derrick T. Mountainlion (Barons mascot) doll. He also has a Rumble doll that he likes, but he LOVES Derrick. Side note: You should have seen the way he freaked out the first time he saw Derrick and Bit (the other Barons mascot) for real at the State Fair :)

Ok, back to talking about the building itself... I have always had the opinion that the arena should remain, but the exibit halls can go. Tear them down, and build the new convention center hotel on that corner. I do not understand all this "RETURN THE STREET GRID, RETURN THE STREET GRID" crap... Californa Avenue will still terminate at EK Gaylord on the east and Robinson Avenue on the west, and Broadway would still terminate at Reno on the south! Unless you are proposing removal of the Chesapeake Arena, Bricktown Canal, Chickisaw Bricktown Ballpark and Myriad Gardens, the "restore the street grid" argument holds no water. We would only be restoring TWO blocks north and south and TWO blocks east and west.

Keep the arena. Yeah, it's old, but VERY useful. In 10, 15, or 20 years when we are looking for a replacement for the Chesapeake, then we can talk about demolishing the old Myriad and building a new arena on that site... and 20-30 years after that, when we are ready to replace the new arena, we can talk about demolishing the old Chesapeake and building a new new arena on that site... and 20 to 30 years after that when we are ready to replace the new new areana... well, you get the picture. We could conceivably ALWAYS have two arenas right across the street from one another, one brand new and state of the art and the other still world class and useful.

OH... (had to edit to add this)... AND those two arenas would ALWAYS be near the CBD, the MAPS3 park, Bricktown, C2S... ALWAYS in the center of activity... ALWAYS within walking distance of where people want to be.

Just my opinion... pretty sure it will be scoffed at

Did you create two screennames so you could back yourself up?? lol



I had the same thought. There are posts back to back on several threads. lol

Ok, back to talking about the building itself... I have always had the opinion that the arena should remain, but the exibit halls can go. Tear them down, and build the new convention center hotel on that corner. I do not understand all this "RETURN THE STREET GRID, RETURN THE STREET GRID" crap... Californa Avenue will still terminate at EK Gaylord on the east and Robinson Avenue on the west, and Broadway would still terminate at Reno on the south! Unless you are proposing removal of the Chesapeake Arena, Bricktown Canal, Chickisaw Bricktown Ballpark and Myriad Gardens, the "restore the street grid" argument holds no water. We would only be restoring TWO blocks north and south and TWO blocks east and west.


Those two blocks will open up 6,000 feet of street frontage for retail and other uses. That is more retail frontage than Penn Sq. Mall. Plus it will make a pedestrian connection between the transit hub and MBG.

Ok, back to talking about the building itself... I have always had the opinion that the arena should remain, but the exibit halls can go. Tear them down, and build the new convention center hotel on that corner. I do not understand all this "RETURN THE STREET GRID, RETURN THE STREET GRID" crap... Californa Avenue will still terminate at EK Gaylord on the east and Robinson Avenue on the west, and Broadway would still terminate at Reno on the south! Unless you are proposing removal of the Chesapeake Arena, Bricktown Canal, Chickisaw Bricktown Ballpark and Myriad Gardens, the "restore the street grid" argument holds no water. We would only be restoring TWO blocks north and south and TWO blocks east and west.


For driving/traffic purposes, you're right: restoring the grid wouldn't make a bit of difference. For development/street-frontage, however, it opens up a ton more space. Rather than have one mega-development that only fronts the street on four sides, most likely isn't the most walkable area either, you would get a plot of land that faces the street on 16 sides and is naturally walkable because it is broken into four pieces rather than one.

I can't count the number of times I've been in the Myriad arena. While I have many fond memories, I wouldn't be the least bit sad to see it go. The prospect for mixed-use/residential/more businesses on that area of land would be much more valuable than keeping a 40 year old (now) arena that could easily be replaced on the fair grounds (or not at all). Also my opinion, no scoffing involved.

Ok, back to talking about the building itself... I have always had the opinion that the arena should remain, but the exibit halls can go. Tear them down, and build the new convention center hotel on that corner. I do not understand all this "RETURN THE STREET GRID, RETURN THE STREET GRID" crap... Californa Avenue will still terminate at EK Gaylord on the east and Robinson Avenue on the west, and Broadway would still terminate at Reno on the south! Unless you are proposing removal of the Chesapeake Arena, Bricktown Canal, Chickisaw Bricktown Ballpark and Myriad Gardens, the "restore the street grid" argument holds no water. We would only be restoring TWO blocks north and south and TWO blocks east and west.

Keep the arena. Yeah, it's old, but VERY useful. In 10, 15, or 20 years when we are looking for a replacement for the Chesapeake, then we can talk about demolishing the old Myriad and building a new arena on that site... and 20-30 years after that, when we are ready to replace the new arena, we can talk about demolishing the old Chesapeake and building a new new arena on that site... and 20 to 30 years after that when we are ready to replace the new new areana... well, you get the picture. We could conceivably ALWAYS have two arenas right across the street from one another, one brand new and state of the art and the other still world class and useful.

OH... (had to edit to add this)... AND those two arenas would ALWAYS be near the CBD, the MAPS3 park, Bricktown, C2S... ALWAYS in the center of activity... ALWAYS within walking distance of where people want to be.

Just my opinion... pretty sure it will be scoffed at



I think you overestimate how often we will need a "new arena".

So we don't actually need to restore the grid...we just need to not develop the whole plot as one big building...

In fact...If I didn't know any better, you could call the N/S "Street" "Thunder Alley".

And actually...I think you could even get away with putting an arena there, as long as the opportunity to put other development on the lot is not only possible, but can be made walkable as well. I'd prefer a visual line of sight from the SF Hub to the MBG though, so that would make an arena a tall to impossible order in order to accommodate that preference.

It doesn't necessarily have to be an street for cars but with no alley there would have to be room for delivery trucks which would have some kind of delivery time restrictions.

I think you overestimate how often we will need a "new arena".

I think you underestimate how often a new arena will be needed.

I had the same thought. There are posts back to back on several threads. lol

We are indeed different people. But I know who the other poster is.

We are indeed different people. But I know who the other poster is.

It's a relative isn't it ? lol

Just pulling a number out of the air based on other arenas, but likely need to be replaced or heavily renovated every 25 to 30 years. Renovating the Peake would be an option but it will likely be too small at that point. I imagine the next arena we build will be on a much larger footprint and will be able to be renovated a few times before it becomes obsolete. They've been able to make Madison Square Garden work for quite awhile in NYC, no reason we can't do the same here, just maybe not with the Peake without a Key arena, strip to the core kind of makeover (which wasn't a forward thinking enough renovation, but you get the point).

Just pulling a number out of the air based on other arenas, but likely need to be replaced or heavily renovated every 25 to 30 years. Renovating the Peake would be an option but it will likely be too small at that point. I imagine the next arena we build will be on a much larger footprint and will be able to be renovated a few times before it becomes obsolete. They've been able to make Madison Square Garden work for quite awhile in NYC, no reason we can't do the same here, just maybe not with the Peake without a Key arena, strip to the core kind of makeover (which wasn't a forward thinking enough renovation, but you get the point).

yep .. we will likely build a new arena .. in 2030ish time frame or the lead item for MAPS 5

The arena is the the middle of the entire complex. The largest exhibit halls are on the west side of the building. The smaller ballrooms and meeting rooms are on the north side of the property. If the entire area except for the arena (and underground parking of course) were to be torn down, we would still have a huge arena in at the intersection of California and Broadway. If you want to go to googlemaps.com and look at it, picture everthing but the tallest part in the middle being gone. I think we would be better off clearing the whole four square blocks and starting from scratch. Maybe build a new smaller arena (7-10,000) on one of the blocks, but it would have to be done right since the CCC is so pedestrian unfriendly.

It doesn't necessarily have to be an street for cars but with no alley there would have to be room for delivery trucks which would have some kind of delivery time restrictions.

I did say a while back in one of these threads, they could be pedestrian/cycling corridors. Doesn't Vegas have a street like that? It used to be open and now it has that domed video graphics board ceiling. I don't think we'd need to do that, just keep a nice and open line of site between the intermodal hub and the MBG and a line of site down Broadway to the arena. Build some grand hotel on one plot to be associated with the arena. It would be like, but not twin to, Dallas' American Airlines Center setup.

I did say a while back in one of these threads, they could be pedestrian/cycling corridors. Doesn't Vegas have a street like that? It used to be open and now it has that domed video graphics board ceiling.

Freemont street

I am thinking of something like this. It isn't a street open to traffic but it has the look and feel of a street which includes a simulated curb and sidewalk (although I would prefer a real curb and sidewalk). Delivery trucks can use the 'street' before 8AM to make deliveries to stores but after that it is pedestrian only.

Sorry for the picture size - I didn't know it was that big

http://www.virtualtripping.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/cardiff-city-centre.jpg

Simulated curb? That's drainage...

And why on earth would you want "real curbs" in a pedestrian walk-way?

I doubt it is drainage but I guess it could be. As for real curbs and sidewalks vs. simulated curbs and sidewalks, I like real stuff where possible. Plus, with real features it could function as a real street if need be.

Either way - this would be better than the Cox Center.

All the people in that photo above, make up the same amount of people in downtown OKC streets on any given day. Build the residential first in core to shore areas and what not and then build this commercial area up. I think it would be great for downtown!


I doubt it is drainage but I guess it could be. As for real curbs and sidewalks vs. simulated curbs and sidewalks, I like real stuff where possible. Plus, with real features it could function as a real street if need be.

Either way - this would be better than the Cox Center.

You're an agent aren't you? If there aren't real objects then we'll find out that we really are in the matrix, right??

Build the residential first in core to shore areas and what not and then build this commercial area up. I think it would be great for downtown!

There is no reason the Cox site itself can't be mixed-use. The retail only takes up the first floor. Everything above that would be office, housing, or even a hotel. The Cox site represent the single best location to establish serious downtown retail because of the adjacent transit hub. In the not to distant future people all over the metro will be able to get there without having to worry about a parking space, plus all of the people that can either live on-site or within easy walking distance.

There is no reason the Cox site itself can't be mixed-use. The retail only takes up the first floor. Everything above that would be office, housing, or even a hotel. The Cox site represent the single best location to establish serious downtown retail because of the adjacent transit hub. In the not to distant future people all over the metro will be able to get there without having to worry about a parking space, plus all of the people that can either live on-site or within easy walking distance.

I wasn't excluding that option but go ahead and add that to the list. I full well expect that if California and Broadway were pedestrian corridors in this superblock that there be residential/office/retail on all corners and street fronts. I 110% agree with you :-)

I never played SIM City, but that area would explode with $$$ potential.

I walk to Bricktown almost every day for lunch. The Cox Center is a giant dead zone. It's uncomfortable to walk past. I have found I go out of my way to avoid walking beside it. Virtually every other path to Bricktown is more comfortable, even if I end up walking a longer distance. Walking next to it is creepy. It feels unsafe, like it's so deserted that I'm going to be attacked by a wasteland mutant.

With the future transit center right across the street, we're going to want to do something to make that area more appealing to pedestrians. Demolishing the Cox Center and putting in 4 new blocks of buildings would be ideal. I can't get across how much better it feels to walk next to normal buildings rather than blank wall. We don't want a transit center just to have one. We want people to actually use it. Having normal buildings with retail on the ground, etc, will make that more likely. By the time Deep Deuce, Midtown, and Automobile Alley have filled up with residential, if the market is still strong, property values downtown will go up. This will make highrise residential construction possible. Imagine a few 400-500 foot towers there, mixed use, with retail at ground level, and an 800 foot energy company tower bordering the park. Much much much better than an arena for the Barons. I will trade that for them having to share the Peake with the Thunder.

^^^likey likey^^^

I like the idea of turning the block into something like the 16th St. Mall in Denver. Until just now I had no idea it was designed by Pei.

16th Street Mall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_Street_Mall)


I am thinking of something like this. It isn't a street open to traffic but it has the look and feel of a street which includes a simulated curb and sidewalk (although I would prefer a real curb and sidewalk). Delivery trucks can use the 'street' before 8AM to make deliveries to stores but after that it is pedestrian only.

Sorry for the picture size - I didn't know it was that big

http://www.virtualtripping.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/cardiff-city-centre.jpg

Also, if I had a billion dollars I would rebuild/recreate the most beloved historic buildings and put them all on that block and have retail and other such things on the ground floor and have a street wall like the above photo.

For OKC, in this particular spot, the pedestrian walkway would fit better if it were smaller. That looks somewhere between 50 and 60 feet wide, and OKC should be shooting closer for 30/35 feet wide.

It gets a little tricky when you have a pedestrian only street, but if it was a traditional street in a T6 setting you would be looking at each sidewalk being 20' wide. That is 40' right there and you still have the street, on-street parking, and a bike lane to account for. Around 85' feet building to building is realistic. At this width proper street enclosure would require buildings with a height of around 8 stories.

Generally, the height of the building should equal the width of the public realm between building facades. Building that go higher should be a wedding cake design so at to not create a canyon effect which creates too much enclosure and discourages pedestrians. In old world Paris they capped the height of buildings based on an angle drawn from the center of the street which is why the top floor of each building curves in (it allowed them to get one more floor on the building without violating the angle restriction).

No reason for a car to be on this block (oustide of delivery/emergency) unless we're planning a parking garage...even then, cars could enter from one of Sheridan/Reno/Harvey/EKG

A pedestrian only street would be fine (or maybe even include the streetcar) but the height:width ratio will still apply. Putting a 40' pedestrian space between 500' buildings won't work to attract and retain pedestrians.

Pedestrian malls have largely been a failure in the US. Of the 75 or so created in the 70s and 80s, most failed. It takes a fairly unique set of circumstanced that make it work....not circumstances existing now in OKC. A combination of walkability, bikeability and drivability are much better than reducing access to one mode. Let's not repeat another urban renewal failure...we have had enough.

I like the idea of turning the block into something like the 16th St. Mall in Denver. Until just now I had no idea it was designed by Pei.

16th Street Mall - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/16th_Street_Mall)

Have you seen or heard of this concept:

City Creek Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Creek_Center)

Talk about perfect for this superblock!

Doable? As Rover suggests? Maybe not, but if OKC truly turns into an urban center then it could possibly work in say 25 years.

It would be in our best interests to keep the Cox Convention Center especially since we invested $50 million in renovations from MAPS I; that's more than twice the cost of original construction. The Cox Center (Old Myriad) initially cost voters $23 million when it was built in 1973: Cox Convention Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cox_Convention_Center). What happen to the plans to downsize the Great Arena (inside Old Myriad) to accommodate 7,500? Those plans if I recall included keeping the upper level seating for rodeos, trade shows, bike racing etc., renovate the lower level for exhibition space.

We will eventually have to evaluate the feasibility of replacing or renovating the Chesapeake Energy Arena once it gets past 20-25 years. We're talking about 2022-25. The Civic Center Music Hall (old Minicipal Auditorium) was a grand old palace in its day and it's one of the few historic structiures we didn't tear down.

The City is really going to have to do some extensive planning as to the direction we want to take OKC. This will include investing in consulting firms to help chart our needs for the immediate future.

Learned me something today. I was thinking The Myriad opened in 70. As that ain't the case, apparently I was a bit older than I remembered being when I saw my first Globetrotters game there. Must have been shortly after it opened, but that would still be a few years later. Sucks to have colander brain sometimes.

It would be in our best interests to keep the Cox Convention Center especially since we invested $50 million in renovations from MAPS I; that's more than twice the cost of original construction. The Cox Center (Old Myriad) initially cost voters $23 million when it was built in 1973: Cox Convention Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cox_Convention_Center). What happen to the plans to downsize the Great Arena (inside Old Myriad) to accommodate 7,500? Those plans if I recall included keeping the upper level seating for rodeos, trade shows, bike racing etc., renovate the lower level for exhibition space.

We will eventually have to evaluate the feasibility of replacing or renovating the Chesapeake Energy Arena once it gets past 20-25 years. We're talking about 2022-25. The Civic Center Music Hall (old Minicipal Auditorium) was a grand old palace in its day and it's one of the few historic structiures we didn't tear down.

The City is really going to have to do some extensive planning as to the direction we want to take OKC. This will include investing in consulting firms to help chart our needs for the immediate future.

Wait a second...

The Myriad cost $23 mil initially, $50 mil to renovate courtesy of MAPS I, costing a total of $73 million.

Ford Center/OKC Arena/Chesapeake Arena cost $89 mil initially courtesy of MAPS I and additional renovations totaling to $76 mil, costing a total of $166 million.

Why do we want to save the Cox Convention Center again?

It would be in our best interests to keep the Cox Convention Center especially since we invested $50 million in renovations from MAPS I; that's more than twice the cost of original construction. The Cox Center (Old Myriad) initially cost voters $23 million when it was built in 1973: Cox Convention Center - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cox_Convention_Center). What happen to the plans to downsize the Great Arena (inside Old Myriad) to accommodate 7,500? Those plans if I recall included keeping the upper level seating for rodeos, trade shows, bike racing etc., renovate the lower level for exhibition space.

We will eventually have to evaluate the feasibility of replacing or renovating the Chesapeake Energy Arena once it gets past 20-25 years. We're talking about 2022-25. The Civic Center Music Hall (old Minicipal Auditorium) was a grand old palace in its day and it's one of the few historic structiures we didn't tear down.

The City is really going to have to do some extensive planning as to the direction we want to take OKC. This will include investing in consulting firms to help chart our needs for the immediate future.

There will be more than enough space for these things in the new Convention Center and tons of money has been invested in equestrian and rodeo facilities at the State Fair. Plus, a new expo center is about to be built there.

That just leaves the shows that need an arena. Anything big and worthwhile is going to pick the bigger and nicer arena. Outside of Baron games, the arena floor space at the Cox probably only gets use when the rest of the exhbition space is completely full.

Wait a second...

The Myriad cost $23 mil initially, $50 mil to renovate courtesy of MAPS I, costing a total of $73 million.

Ford Center/OKC Arena/Chesapeake Arena cost $89 mil initially courtesy of MAPS I and additional renovations totaling to $76 mil, costing a total of $166 million.

Why do we want to save the Cox Convention Center again?

Hold on - you missed a big part. The NEW convention center will cost $450 million when both phases are finished plus whatever we kick in for the hotel. The Cox Arena was not part of MAPS I. So we will have spent over $600 million on a new arena AND a new convention center and for some reason people think we will keep booking events in the 40 year old facility. It isn't going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cox cost more to maintain than it brings in revenue and that is even going to be more true after the new convention center opens.

There will be more than enough space for these things in the new Convention Center and tons of money has been invested in equestrian and rodeo facilities at the State Fair. Plus, a new expo center is about to be built there.

That just leaves the shows that need an arena. Anything big and worthwhile is going to pick the bigger and nicer arena. Outside of Baron games, the arena floor space at the Cox probably only gets use when the rest of the exhbition space is completely full.

My main concern is poor planning; these are the kinds of decisions which cause voters to believe that some MAPS projects are a waste. You're right, we fumbled the ball on the Cox Convention Center if there is no longer a use for this facility. You think this doesn't concern voters?

Do we have any idea what our convention facility needs are going to be five, ten or fifteen years down the road? Some rodeo and or esquestian events would be better situated in the downtown setting. Now we're ready to throw $76 millions into a pile of trash...

Voters are really turned off when the decision is made to demolish school buildings and taxpayer funded buildings such as the Cox Convention Center. Do what you promised the voters you were going to do with these structures. Changing the horse while crossing the middle of the stream is not going to make the grade.


There will be more than enough space for these things in the new Convention Center and tons of money has been invested in equestrian and rodeo facilities at the State Fair. Plus, a new expo center is about to be built there.

That just leaves the shows that need an arena. Anything big and worthwhile is going to pick the bigger and nicer arena. Outside of Baron games, the arena floor space at the Cox probably only gets use when the rest of the exhbition space is completely full.

Do we know what direction we are going to take downtown events? Do we know that the space in the new convention center is going to be accomplish our future needs. Our downtown hotel needs are coming along. If we want to move from a Tier III to a Tier II convention city we are going to have to attract the type of events which will help up accomplish accommodations for downtown. The fairgrounds facilities are coming along fine; however, having the options for a downtown setting shouldn't be ruled out.

I'm well aware that the Myriad Convention Center was completed in the early seventies when a bond issue barely passed. I voted for it. We've pumped twice the original amount into upgraded that facility with MAPS I and now you want to tear it down?

Why not reconstruct the old Stockyards Coliseum if we're going to throw away millions of dollars?

Face it people, we have got to use our MAPS money wisely. I know MAPS is for capital improvements; however, when we have safety issues (Police & Fire) opposing MAPS because they don't understand how budgets work and they can only sipen the use tax money to expand their departments--do we need this type of drama?

We need:

1. A strategic comprehensive plan on what we want to do with the future developments of OKC through MAPS.
2. To assess where we want to develop certain projects in our city.
3. To educate voters about bond issues, MAPS sales tax referendums and school millage issues and how these things work.

We have a great thing going in Oklahoma City and we are the envy of many cities. Let's move forward and plan ahead where we are not imploding and/or tearing down the projects we just built.

Does this mean investing money in hiring more consulting firms to do our needs assessment? LET'S GET IT RIGHT!

Hold on - you missed a big part. The NEW convention center will cost $450 million when both phases are finished plus whatever we kick in for the hotel. The Cox Arena was not part of MAPS I. So we will have spent over $600 million on a new arena AND a new convention center and for some reason people think we will keep booking events in the 40 year old facility. It isn't going to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if the Cox cost more to maintain than it brings in revenue and that is even going to be more true after the new convention center opens.

It's getting expensive to build these facilities; therefore we need to get it right... These facilities are built to spur more development which brings in the revenue, we know that there is no direct payoff as far as structures like the Cox Convention Center paying for itself.

It is unpopular to start imploding and tearing down things we just built. We have totally gutted our city's historic structures over the past 40 years.

Are we thinking ahead about a future home for the Thunders? How we can work the Chesapeake Energy Arena into our future convention needs should we decide to build a new NBA facility?

The money spent on the Myriad in MAPS I wasn't to make a state of the art of facility capable of carrying the city into the future. It was spent to bring the facility up to minimum standards for the time. It is the difference between buying a new 2014 car or spending just enough to keep the tires from falling off the 1972 Chevy Nova.

Personally, I think the MAPS model was a good way to jump start OKC, but OKC isn't sitting a stand-still anymore so I would be happy if we moved away from the 'create pile of money first and then figure out how to spend it' to a 'here is exactly what we to do and here is how much it cost' model. Take the sidewalks for example. Instead of saying we want to build as many feet of sidewalks as we can for X dollars, and then vote on X dollars; we say we want to build X feet of sidewalks and here is how much it will cost, and then we vote on X feet of sidewalk.

The money spent on the Myriad in MAPS I wasn't to make a state of the art of facility capable of carrying the city into the future. It was spent to bring the facility up to minimum standards for the time. It is the difference between buying a new 2014 car or spending just enough to keep the tires from falling off the 1972 Chevy Nova.

Personally, I think the MAPS model was a good way to jump start OKC, but OKC isn't sitting a stand-still anymore so I would be happy if we moved away from the 'create pile of money first and then figure out how to spend it' to a 'here is exactly what we to do and here is how much it cost' model. Take the sidewalks for example. Instead of saying we want to build as many feet of sidewalks as we can for X dollars, and then vote on X dollars; we say we want to build X feet of sidewalks and here is how much it will cost, and then we vote on X feet of sidewalk.

LMAO! You made my day... Don't remind me of my friend's bramd mew 1972 Chevy NOVA (parents bought him); the dude cried because he wanted something else. I was driving my 1964 Impala to Central State University praying and hoping I could get to school and back. LMAO... His parents lived in a house with 8 bedrooms and he wanted something better than a brand new Nova. A 'spoiled brat' he was and 'mother' was getting ready to move into a new house with 14 bedrooms. Sorry, I got caught up in the moment...

Well, it would be simple if we could put wheels and tires on the Cox Convention Center and haul it away...

Sure MAPS did jump start Oklahoma City. Let's keep that old Chevy NOVA looking good and parked in the back. I hate I traded my old Studebaker for that 64' Impala.

Plain and simple, we need to plan as we go and grow.