I think the utility relocation is the more pressing issue ... and they may be able to do a bunch of that without disrupting the parking for next season ...

The garage will be gone for several years while Paycom is still in operation.

Thanks for this.

I'm surprised because an architect is yet to be hired.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/prairiesurf060424a.jpg

Seems like a good compromise to get PSM moved out even earlier.

It's interesting they don't mention what they are paying Prairie Surf to leave a year early.

Especially since the City was losing money on that deal to begin with.

Not surprising given the updated timeline. They can move on with some aggressive demolition and start moving utility lines. I also bet a new garage would be the first thing to get greenlighted once an architect is selected and a general site outline is developed.

Per Marty: https://x.com/OKC_SPAN/status/1797990951270637876


a lease amendment for the lease with prairie surf. that studio will have to leave the site so it can be demoed for the new arena. basically gets them out early. the way it works is the city waives the $650k we would make from that lease.

^

These are the figures from the lease deal with Prairie Surf, and the council item specifically says the City will provide them "financial incentives" to leave early.

HTTP://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/prairiesurf060424b.jpg

^^^^^^^^^
The City’s financial incentives are the waiving of previously-negotiated tenant expenses. The only money changing hands will be the buyout incentive from the Thunder to PSM, and since both parties are private that number is confidential.

^

Thanks for the info.

Good to know the City won't be losing even more on this deal.


Will be interesting to see if Prairie Surf sets up shop somewhere else.

That's an important detail I overlooked. The Thunder actually provided some financial motivation for PSM to leave early.

That's an important detail I overlooked. The Thunder actually provided some financial motivation for PSM to leave early.
Yes, as I’ve mentioned a few times previously in this thread, while the City is obligated to complete the building within a certain amount of time, the Thunder is highly financially motivated to get into the building sooner rather than later. The PSM lease was always an impediment to the team’s desired timeline. While the City is certainly helping by waiving some tenant expenses, the Thunder was the only party that was ever going to be compelled to incentivize an early departure for the studio.

^

Interesting -- thanks.

Note the City has hired CAA Icon (who also consulted on the Intuit Dome and a bunch of other arenas and sports facilities) as their consultants on this project. Not sure where they stand on hiring an architect, but there would have to be an RFP and that has yet to be issued.

https://www.caaicon.com/

They are very very good at what they do.

They ask (twice) about how much more we expect to pay for tickets at the new arena. I said "As this arena is being built with 95% public funds I would not expect ticket prices to increase at all." :Smiley122

Well yeah. We had to build them a bigger space so they can fill that space with premium amenities.

They ask (twice) about how much more we expect to pay for tickets at the new arena. I said "As this arena is being built with 95% public funds I would not expect ticket prices to increase at all." :Smiley122

The thing that shocked me was the line of questions about club seating. I sit in the club section now. The survey talked about the club seats no longer being a special section, but an area down in the lower bowl. When it came to pricing, the survey asked if I would be willing to pay $20,000 per seat for club section seating. My current seats are about $4,500.00. Yikes! When I said no, it turned into something of an auction. Would I pay $17.5K ? Nope. $15K? Nope. The survey gave up after that. Guess I won't have club seats in the new arena.

The thing that shocked me was the line of questions about club seating. I sit in the club section now. The survey talked about the club seats no longer being a special section, but an area down in the lower bowl. When it came to pricing, the survey asked if I would be willing to pay $20,000 per seat for club section seating. My current seats are about $4,500.00. Yikes! When I said no, it turned into something of an auction. Would I pay $17.5K ? Nope. $15K? Nope. The survey gave up after that. Guess I won't have club seats in the new arena.

Club level seats in newer arenas are vastly different than the club seats in Paycom. The newer arenas have substantially more amenities for club level, hence the price increase. It’s actually a completely different experience and category, in my opinion. What you experience at club level today with Paycom will still be available but likely will be called something different.

Club level seats in newer arenas are vastly different than the club seats in Paycom. The newer arenas have substantially more amenities for club level, hence the price increase. It’s actually a completely different experience and category, in my opinion. What you experience at club level today with Paycom will still be available but likely will be called something different.

yep .. look at the cowboys football stadium the "club level" is the lower sidelines between the 20's

But is it 4x better than what we have now?

That's a crazy price jump.

But is it 4x better than what we have now?

That's a crazy price jump.

Based on reading that, the club level (paycom) compared to club level (new arena) will not even be located in the same area and will be closer to the floor with increased amenities. I would like to see a ticket price breakdown for all areas of the Paycom before trying to compare to any new section at the new arena.

Seeing a lot fewer sections in Fiserv compared to Paycom

But is it 4x better than what we have now?

That's a crazy price jump.

Most of the tickets in the middle at the lower level are 5 figures or close to it now.

Like boulder said, it depends on what they mean by "club" in the new arena. If the "club level" in the new arena is where the champions club is now in the middle of the lower bowl, it's an increase of about $130 per ticket (They are $330/ticket/game or $14,190 per ticket for a full season 24-25). It sounds more or less like they're looking at combining premium lower bowl seats with the club level amenities and that's what they're factoring into the price.

The $105 tickets referenced above are between the baseline and the corner in the club level so I don't think a comparable ticket in that zone would be increasing from $4,500/year to $20,000/year (because no one would pay that for them).

Couldn't get the ticket graphic to show up clearly for some reason...

18890

Based on reading that, the club level (paycom) compared to club level (new arena) will not even be located in the same area and will be closer to the floor with increased amenities. I would like to see a ticket price breakdown for all areas of the Paycom before trying to compare to any new section at the new arena.

Seeing a lot fewer sections in Fiserv compared to Paycom

Oh I agree its a different seat in a different area, but the survey chose to ask me about it specifically, I guess because the seats in the new arena are named the same as my seats in the old arena. I don't think I'm their target market for $20k seats, but if anything in the center section lower bowl is $10k+, they may be deluding themselves on what prices this market can bear.

Oh I agree its a different seat in a different area, but the survey chose to ask me about it specifically, I guess because the seats in the new arena are named the same as my seats in the old arena. I don't think I'm their target market for $20k seats, but if anything in the center section lower bowl is $10k+, they may be deluding themselves on what prices this market can bear.

You can find current season ticket prices here:

https://okcthunder.com/memberships/

As PhiAlpha mentioned, center section lower bowl is currently more than $10k at Paycom. And other than location and nicer seats, I don't think many of those seats really have much in the way of added amenities.

^^^^^^^^^^^
For those who don't want to bother clicking the link, here is the graphic:

18901

And what this translates to for EXISTING lower level tickets in the season just played is as follows (assuming a pair of full-season tickets):


Baseline loft: $6150.00
Baseline: $7134.00
Premier Baseline: $10,250.00
High post: $11,480.00
Premier post: $16,810.00
Champions club (these are generally the lower bowl tickets you see in crowd shots during game play, but NOT courtside): $27,060.00
Courtside: the site says call for details but for the record I believe most of these are in the $40K-$80K range for a pair of full-season tickets

The prices listed above would include a pair of full, 41 game season tickets. And many of these come with no extra amenities whatsoever, other than a pretty good view of the game.

I think a lot of folks judge viability of pricing based upon what they themselves can afford or would like to pay. Beyond that, I don't think most folks consider that tickets are often either corporate seats (usually distributed to employees, clients, partners etc), OR in many cases they are owned by groups of individual and family partners. For instance I have high post seats, but also have seat partners who get a percentage of the games (we do a draft). We are considering a move to premier post, plus would (and will) absolutely pay more for significant amenities upgrades.

Here is a larger version for those visually impaired.

18901

^^^^^^^^^
Haha oops I saved the image with the wrong settings, thanks for uploading that.

Also, It's not just 41 games. You are required to purchase at least a couple preseason games at the same price.

Also, It's not just 41 games. You are required to purchase at least a couple preseason games at the same price.

yeah the total this year is 43 for a full season ticket.

We barely pay attention to the pre-season games. :wink:

My main reason for posting was to counteract the flawed narrative above stating “…if anything in the center section lower bowl is $10k+, they may be deluding themselves on what prices this market can bear…”

Literally EVERYTHING center section, lower bowl is ALREADY over $10K for a pair. Every single seat. A giant chunk of them are nearly 3x that number, and a significant number of them are multiple factors higher. This market is clearly equipped to pay NBA prices.

We barely pay attention to the pre-season games. :wink:

My main reason for posting was to counteract the flawed narrative above stating “…if anything in the center section lower bowl is $10k+, they may be deluding themselves on what prices this market can bear…”

Literally EVERYTHING center section, lower bowl is ALREADY over $10K for a pair. Every single seat. A giant chunk of them are nearly 3x that number, and a significant number of them are multiple factors higher. This market is clearly equipped to pay NBA prices.

I think the issue is more that the people complaining can't afford to pay those prices. So, they refuse to believe other people have the ability to do so, or if they do not enough of them will want to.

Tickets upstairs start at $12 per seat per game. :shrug:

At the end of the day, a business model with a $160 million+ payroll - not including front office salaries and other massive operating expenses - has to find the money somewhere. If finding them extra money involves adding discretionary services and amenities that can make the game experience even better, I’m all for it.

Tickets upstairs start at $12 per seat per game. :shrug:

At the end of the day, a business model with a $160 million+ payroll - not including front office salaries and other massive operating expenses - has to find the money somewhere. If finding them extra money involves adding discretionary services and amenities that can make the game experience even better, I’m all for it.

I just bought 2 for $16/ticket. Heck of a deal when I live downtown and watch every game anyway. If I had gotten season tickets this year, I would’ve saved somewhere between 1/3 and 1/2 of the total season ticket price just based on not having to pay the crazy ticket fees and inflated secondary market prices for the 3 playoff games we went to.

Tickets upstairs start at $12 per seat per game. :shrug:

At the end of the day, a business model with a $160 million+ payroll - not including front office salaries and other massive operating expenses - has to find the money somewhere. If finding them extra money involves adding discretionary services and amenities that can make the game experience even better, I’m all for it.

Agreed. The NBA is a high rent district, you're gonna pay high rent prices. This is the pro's not college.

The Thunder also has one of the lowest average ticket prices in the league.

Obviously, that doesn't make it cheap, but I don't think some realize how inexpensive and easy it is to go to Thunder games, relative to many (most?) teams in the NBA.

The Thunder also has one of the lowest average ticket prices in the league.

Obviously, that doesn't make it cheap, but I don't think some realize how inexpensive and easy it is to go to Thunder games, relative to many (most?) teams in the NBA.

True. I had no idea there were $12 and $16/game season tickets, if I’d been paying attention, I probably would’ve gotten some years ago.

What would you as a fan, like to see in the new Oklahoma City Downtown arena on the 4-square blocks on the Old Myriad Convention Center site. We know it will exceed 750,000 square feet:

Seating Capacity:



20,000 - 22,000
18,000 - 19,999
17,000 - 17,999


Explain your response.

What would you as a fan, like to see in the new Oklahoma City Downtown arena on the 4-square blocks on the Old Myriad Convention Center site. We know it will exceed 750,000 square feet:

Seating Capacity:



20,000 - 22,000
18,000 - 19,999
17,000 - 17,999


Explain your response.

18,000 to 19,999. I think consistently getting 20k plus is tough, and the arena should be more geared towards fan interaction and amenities, rather than cramming people in like sardines. Just my opinion.

What would you as a fan, like to see in the new Oklahoma City Downtown arena on the 4-square blocks on the Old Myriad Convention Center site. We know it will exceed 750,000 square feet:

Seating Capacity:



20,000 - 22,000
18,000 - 19,999
17,000 - 17,999


Explain your response.


https://i.ytimg.com/vi/oWtAjUBlco8/sddefault.jpg

Oklahoma City should strive to have the loudest arena in the NBA, one that will reinforce the LOUD CITY moniker. Make this the Taj Mahal among NBA arenas. Make it attractive enough (Capacity, Interior & Exterior) to host an upcoming NCAA regional.

Except you usually don't start demolition until you have the overall plan.

I suppose they will just wipe the site clean and go from there.

The City will loose 994 parking spaces but as of the last report, there were only 240 monthly parkers. The bigger issue will be spaces needed for Thunder games and other Paycom events.

The Thunder are now informing people that demolition on Prairie Surf will begin on January 1 and for those who had parking spots in Prairie surf, they will get to choose a new space in another garage or lot that they Thunder have leased.

The Thunder are now informing people that demolition on Prairie Surf will begin on January 1 and for those who had parking spots in Prairie surf, they will get to choose a new space in another garage or lot that they Thunder have leased.

That's fast. I guess Prairie Surf Is ghost town these days. Can't see them being able to do anything with less than 6 months left.

They clearly have a plan and an aggressive schedule.

Their Gantt chart must show that they must start demolition as soon as they gain possession (1/1/25) while simultaneously finalizing plans.

They have yet to publish an RFP for architects, let alone start design work.

With these big projects, there are so many things that have to happen concurrently; I used to manage construction (up to $10 million, so nothing like this scale) and the complexity is mind-numbing. Part of my fascination with big projects is having at least a small appreciation for what goes into getting it done.

At the same time, this is a bit strange because this is public property, public development, and public funds, yet they won't even be convening public committees as they do with MAPS. So, there will be a lot going on that we won't know about, as has really been the case throughout this project.

I suppose I need to fire up some open records requests as that will be the only way to see behind the curtain. I wouldn't be surprised if they hide a lot of this behind the cloak of the Alliance.

They will have to put a demolition contract up for bid. I'm sure that will happen in a few months.

It'll be really cool having a big construction project going on in downtown for the next 4 years or so. Possibly a bit inconvenient for doing anything around, but that's the cost of progress.

I cannot wait to see the old Myriad leveled, even though it's a big part of my downtown OKC memories.

My family moved here from Wisconsin in the 60s and we would often go to Blazers hockey games at the fairgrounds, which is also getting ready to bit the dust. But in the early 70s, the team moved to the Myriad when it opened as one of the first big pieces of urban renewal. I remember what a big deal the Myriad was then, especially downtown. I can still hear the pre-recorded message that played in the arena: "Welcome to the *incom-parable* Myriad.

I saw my first concert there (Beach Boys in 1974) and maybe my favorite concert memory of all time: Eagles in the summer of 1977 when I was heading into my senior year in high school and they had just released the Hotel California album. Talk about a seminal 1970s experience!

I wonder how many events I saw at the Myriad? Easily, dozens. All types of concerts but also many All College basketball tournaments, the Harlem Globetrotters, the circus, on and on.


However, it's now so ugly and dead and is basically just a tall concrete and non-see-through glass wall on all four sides. We're used to it but if you stand in the Myriad Gardens and look east, it's just so horrible.

I look forward to seeing how the new facility better interacts with the street and it's surroundings. I'm sure it will be 'activated' with year-round restaurants and bars.

They clearly have a plan and an aggressive schedule.

Their Gantt chart must show that they must start demolition as soon as they gain possession (1/1/25) while simultaneously finalizing plans.

They have yet to publish an RFP for architects, let alone start design work.

With these big projects, there are so many things that have to happen concurrently; I used to manage construction (up to $10 million, so nothing like this scale) and the complexity is mind-numbing. Part of my fascination with big projects is having at least a small appreciation for what goes into getting it done.

At the same time, this is a bit strange because this is public property, public development, and public funds, yet they won't even be convening public committees as they do with MAPS. So, there will be a lot going on that we won't know about, as has really been the case throughout this project.

I suppose I need to fire up some open records requests as that will be the only way to see behind the curtain. I wouldn't be surprised if they hide a lot of this behind the cloak of the Alliance.

I know that the RFP was to be issued anytime and that they're planning to have detailed renderings before the end of the year.

It'll be really cool having a big construction project going on in downtown for the next 4 years or so. Possibly a bit inconvenient for doing anything around, but that's the cost of progress.

Just think of that, the Boardwalk at Bricktown and the new stadium being worked on at the same time. Hopefully the REHCO lot can get thrown in there too.

I know that the RFP was to be issued anytime and that they're planning to have detailed renderings before the end of the year.

Thanks for that info.

Considering it's the middle of July and they haven't even chosen an architect, detailed renderings by the end of the year is very ambitious. But of course, can't wait to see them!

Not a new arena, but look at what my team (da Bulls) and their owner is doing around their current arena.

https://wgntv.com/news/chicago-news/united-center-owners-planning-major-7-billion-renovation-project-around-arena/

I'd love something like this taking the place of the Paycom Center!

Thanks for that info.

Considering it's the middle of July and they haven't even chosen an architect, detailed renderings by the end of the year is very ambitious. But of course, can't wait to see them!

Speculating, but working in this world a little bit, you'd be stunned how fast mega projects can be designed with some of the AI tools already available. I know of one company's product that can generate all MEP (mechanical electrical plumbing) plans, including critical paths, in about 20 mins. Have to check and proofread from there but its 90% of the way.

Speculating, but working in this world a little bit, you'd be stunned how fast mega projects can be designed with some of the AI tools already available. I know of one company's product that can generate all MEP (mechanical electrical plumbing) plans, including critical paths, in about 20 mins. Have to check and proofread from there but its 90% of the way.

Trust generative AI with complex tasks like that at your own peril. It's wrong so, so, so often. Totally different industry, granted, but I found I could do things myself faster and to a higher level of quality than using GenAI and debugging it's crappy output. Less stressful that way too. Personally, I'd *much* rather wait for properly trained humans to generate those plans so we know it's done right - especially on a public investment as massive as a new arena.

This has been a long time coming for West Loop and the United Center. Adjacent to the fastest growing zip code in the country! I think Thunder Alley was a glimpse into the direction they will try to go with the adjacent land, and having the entire Prarie Surf lot to work with will increase the room for creativity. I would love to see the design incorporate a new pedestrian easement under the tracks near Santa Fe station, easing foot travel between Bricktown and the new site, especially when the station comes on line as a regional rail stop.

.


City of Oklahoma City's website:



The Thunder will continue to play home games at the Paycom Center until the new arena opens.

The agreement maintains the completion date of 2029 as outlined in the letter of intent but provides a path to a target completion date of June 2028, with a contractual obligation to open the new arena by June 2030.

The Thunder’s 25-year commitment to remain in Oklahoma City begins when they move into the new arena.

https://journalrecord.com/files/2023/06/km-downtown-arena-1-main.jpg

https://okbusinessvoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/Prairie-Surf-Studios-1024x428.png


"Everybody wants to hear what the arena will look like. No such concept exists yet, but with this timeline, announcements will be fast and furious over the next two years. And I can tell you, as I have before, the design of this arena will raise the bar for aesthetics and experience in our community. It will change our skyline and our sense of place. As you likely heard us announce this spring, the new arena will be on the site of the old Myriad or Cox Convention Center. Before you know it, on that block will stand our city’s first true NBA arena, and when it opens, you’re going to look up and finally say, “that’s the arena of a top 20 city.”--Mayor Holt, State of the City Address, 07-23-24.

Exciting to hear the optimism Mayor Holt has taken with the new arena, really feel that he will follow thru on the total square footage, city's first true NBA arena and that it will change our skyline.

.

Changing skyline = 1 hotel at minimum, which was already pretty obvious considering modern NBA arenas are moving to mixed destination plazas instead of stand-alone structures you drive to, attend, then leave.

Changing skyline = 1 hotel at minimum, which was already pretty obvious considering modern NBA arenas are moving to mixed destination plazas instead of stand-alone structures you drive to, attend, then leave.

Got the impression from the transcript (Didn't watch the actual address) BoulderSooner posted that the new arena itself would change the skyline. Investing $900 million to $1 billion in a state-of-the-art arena should raise the bar for NBA arenas. Inflation will eat a good amount of the billion dollar investment, maybe inflation will cool by the time we put bids out for construction.

Since OKC already owns the land, it's a matter of demolition of the PSM (old Myriad) site; construction of a new arena on the existing 4-square block site. Obviously, those blocks will allow more than ample space to build a new arena and add exhibition space if needed.

Don't want to get to excited b/c whatever design is proposed, there will be posters who will not like the design and be critical of the new arena regardless of what the architects reveal.

I still have my reservations any the quality and scope of the developments to surround the new arena. We said that Scissortail would increase development in that area near the park and we have *checks notes* nothing. We have given away, as a city, pretty expensive parking lots and undeveloped plots of land in that area. But no development.

The city has so much prime, undeveloped land with no plans at all for developing them. Why should we believe this will be different?

I hope it is, but like I said, I have some reservations. This area needs private developments all around it, just like Scissortail does.

I still have my reservations any the quality and scope of the developments to surround the new arena. We said that Scissortail would increase development in that area near the park and we have *checks notes* nothing. We have given away, as a city, pretty expensive parking lots and undeveloped plots of land in that area. But no development.

The city has so much prime, undeveloped land with no plans at all for developing them. Why should we believe this will be different?

I hope it is, but like I said, I have some reservations. This area needs private developments all around it, just like Scissortail does.

Once the arena starts to move, I would guess we would start to hear something on the REHCO lot between the parks. Once that is working, I think we will start to see development move to the west side of the park.

Keep in mind that Scissortail park opened six months before a global pandemic threw everything out of wack. Companies are working to get projects going, but the increased cost of goods and services made it pretty difficult. I think with that being the new normal, we will see more movement over there, but would rather it take time and get it right versus being fast tracked and be awful. Just look at OAK. Originally, someone bought that to put a starbucks and a few other fast food places.

I still have my reservations any the quality and scope of the developments to surround the new arena. We said that Scissortail would increase development in that area near the park and we have *checks notes* nothing. We have given away, as a city, pretty expensive parking lots and undeveloped plots of land in that area. But no development.

The city has so much prime, undeveloped land with no plans at all for developing them. Why should we believe this will be different?

I hope it is, but like I said, I have some reservations. This area needs private developments all around it, just like Scissortail does.

Go back and look at OKC downtown (or everywhere) 15 yrs ago, 10 yrs ago, 5 yrs ago, now, and with the future plans and see if you maintain your negative viewpoint of the development of this city. Many OKCitians, like you (I assume you live here), have outdated notions of what is happening in our city, and overinflated visions of what happens in other cities. OKC had a huge amount of ground to make up and they are doing that nicely. With everything in context, OKC is blossoming.

Big, quality development takes time. And it also takes time for the market to absorb anything (retail, office, residential) of significance.

Strawberry Fields continues to be a mess and will probably need someone to come in and buy them out, but the REHCO property between the two parks will eventually be something great.

Between the new arena and the Olympics, I bet we see lots more smaller downtown projects in the next few years. And if we get anything at all on the proposed Boardwalk site, that will be a win.

If the arena development is done right, we should see new life in west Bricktown, along with the Paycom site and hopefully REHCO site. Also, If I were News 9 or any other tenant. I wouldn't get too attached to the Century Center. Seems like that could is a good candidate to be redeveloped sometime in the distant future.

^

Channel 9 bought that entire property (less the hotel and parking garage) and just put millions into it.

If the arena development is done right, we should see new life in west Bricktown, along with the Paycom site and hopefully REHCO site. Also, If I were News 9 or any other tenant. I wouldn't get too attached to the Century Center. Seems like that could is a good candidate to be redeveloped sometime in the distant future.

There are many more undeveloped adjacent and nearby lots I would try to develop before worrying about Channel 9's property.

There are really six big commercial opportunities downtown:

1. Strawberry Fields (ugh, I know)
2. REHCO property between the parks
3. Stage Center site and entire block west of MBG
4. The current site of Paycom Center
5. Bricktown and adjacent
6. Producers Coop

That's a ton of under-utilized property and it's going to take decades to digest it all.