In all honesty the Myriad site is a much better site..for now at least. That might explain the need for urban park and programmed elements there. I think we all wanted something new and fresh with the Myriad however.

As for the glass panels, you're right..funded by the 2008 bond issue BUT I think they may have dipped into the $35-41 million for park renovations (I forget what the total end number is off the top of my head, but I think 41 maybe) in order to splurge on the REALLY cool and REALLY worthwhile LED panels. The 2008 bond issue included..maybe a million? I forget. I think if you search on Steve's blog about it you'll come across something. okccentral.com

Larry, you're also right about the Myriad Gardens "maybe/not really/only somewhat/depends" lacking people and ranking high as a tourist destination. It DOES have people and rank high as a tourist destination within the context of Downtown OKC which is relatively low pedestrian traffic and tourist exposure to begin with. Big fish in a small pond in terms of downtown notoriety but we're trying to make it a more integral piece of a completely revamped downtown.

The millions in renovations are mostly because the park was showing its age. Not because of maintenance, but because of outdated designs. The exposed concrete and concrete plazas everywhere were brutal, and very 80s. The bottom line is we just want the Myriad Gardens to become an environment that is free of some of the design errors that timestamped it in the first place.

The work Dean McGee did to make the park become a reality was well worth it, probably the ONLY good thing that has come from urban renewal in OKC--so I hate to say it was "initially flawed" but there were parts that needed to be redesigned. Dean McGee was no architect..I.M. Pei unfortunately masqueraded as one.

I liked your pun about its garden "roots." :)

Ok, I went and looked it up as you suggested from Steve's blog...


With the Myriad Gardens project estimate at $43 million, $6 million above the original estimate...

Think these numbers were from Ms. Story and not Steve but by my math, $43M is $8M above the original reported $35M but why quibble over a couple of million? LOL

Thanks! I am sure it will produce a few groans, but I just couldn't resist

The one thing that occurs to me is the only reason MG and the new MAPS 3 string of parks DON'T connect was possibly because they wanted to keep the MGs distinct identity (as a botanical gardens). IF that is the case, then why confuse things with the overlapping/duplication of the two? Now that we know that both are going to exist in relative close proximity to each other (both in time and place)?

Not arguing, just asking...

I think it's stupid that they didn't connect the Myriad to the new park. So I would say the reason isn't to keep the Myriad unique or blah blah, but because they're stupid. Make sense?

But I suppose that could be part of it. Maybe they're trying to keep the CBD identity separate from the C2S identity. As for the difference between 6 and 8 million, I seem to recall $37 mil being an important number too, maybe different articles show different totals. As for arguing over details with you, well..I learned during the MAPS debate that minute details are best left to you, Larry..so it's just whatever you say.

I don't think anyone is of the disposition that going from $6 mil over to $8 mil over just crosses a line, can't support the project anymore..

There will be curbside parking on all four sides.

There will be parking on three sides. There will not be curbside parking along Sheridan, across from Devon.


I am sure the conservatory will still be involved in the maintenance of at least the garden portions.While the Myriad Gardens Foundation's primary role has been to raise funds and support the Gardens through fund-raising initiatives for education programming and capital improvements, they are looking at other means they can continue to support the Gardens on a continual basis. As for maintenance, the Gardens have been maintained exclusively by City staff.


Color me confused again, but the need of $35 million in renovations suggested to me at least a certain level of disrepair/neglect or whatever you want to call it (think that amount has increased). But then again maybe it was more of completing what was started and never quite finished (back to funding). Seem to recall Mr. Nichols saying something to the effect of both but the links I have are now archived Oklahoman articles. Not sure if the plexi replacement is part of that amount, but it was planned/funded before this all came about, IIRC.

Also, regarding the "lacking people", seem to recall that the MG has always ranked fairly highly as a tourist destination?? Its been a long week and maybe I am imagining things.

While the horticulture aspect of the Gardens was in good shape, some of the architectural features were starting to fall into at least a state of minimal disrepair, although structurally things are still in good shape. The Foundation was able to raise approximately $250,000 for improvements to the Water Stage, and were looking to eventually work towards a larger fund-raising campaign to redo the north lake area when the opportunity for Devon TIF funds came about.

The total budget for the project is $38 million, with $12 million coming from the General Obligation Bond voted upon by the citizens in 2007. This portion of the budget will fund the reglazing of the Crystal Bridge and the new South entry portal and plaza area.

The remainder of the budget is for the other projects as outlined above.

While the Gardens have been a popular tourist destination (approx 90,000 visitors annually to the Crystal Bridge; 1 million to outdoor grounds (including Arts Festival, Downtown in December and other events), these additional amenities will facilitate growth in not only the tourism sector, but will also aid in attracting more local visitors.


I think it's stupid that they didn't connect the Myriad to the new park. So I would say the reason isn't to keep the Myriad unique or blah blah, but because they're stupid.

Um. Not quite sure what to say here. If you look at the bird's-eye view of the site plan, you will see a north-south walkway that runs through the Gardens - quite literally through the Crystal Bridge. This is the northern portion of what is being called the "Harvey Spine" in the C2S project. The south plaza of the CB is the northern entry portal for C2S. It's kind of hard to see without looking at it as a whole, but that's what it is.

The link below shows an early bird's eye rendering of Core 2 Shore, where this link, or spine, is clearly visible. While the C2S plans have shifted around this, the spine itself remains in tact. http://www.okc.gov/planning/coretoshore/visuals/idea_1_full_size.jpg
(http://www.okc.gov/planning/coretoshore/visuals/idea_1_full_size.jpg)

I think it's stupid that they didn't connect the Myriad to the new park. So I would say the reason isn't to keep the Myriad unique or blah blah, but because they're stupid. Make sense?

But I suppose that could be part of it. Maybe they're trying to keep the CBD identity separate from the C2S identity. As for the difference between 6 and 8 million, I seem to recall $37 mil being an important number too, maybe different articles show different totals. As for arguing over details with you, well..I learned during the MAPS debate that minute details are best left to you, Larry..so it's just whatever you say.

I don't think anyone is of the disposition that going from $6 mil over to $8 mil over just crosses a line, can't support the project anymore..

Sorry. As I said, wasn't quibbling over it, just pointing the discrepancy out is all ($35M, Oklahoman, 10/9/09). The overall increase once again shows the that projects often come in over what was originally told. At the present $43M, that is 23% more than the original $35M. If the latest number from FritterGirl is correct (and have no reason to believe It isn't) then they managed to keep the over runs in check and that's great news. That puts the overage at about the 8% the City says they average. Of course the renovation is just beginning so we will have to wait to see what the final numbers are.

All of that being said, the concern as how this might relate to MAPS 3 is the cost over run aspect. Instead of the 8% overage, they have only set aside 2.2%. When you are talking an overall $777M budget, the change in percentages comes into some serious cash. Perish the thought, but if the cost over runs of the original MAPS projects (47.75%) is repeated....

...Um. Not quite sure what to say here. If you look at the bird's-eye view of the site plan, you will see a north-south walkway that runs through the Gardens - quite literally through the Crystal Bridge. This is the northern portion of what is being called the "Harvey Spine" in the C2S project. The south plaza of the CB is the northern entry portal for C2S. It's kind of hard to see without looking at it as a whole, but that's what it is.

The link below shows an early bird's eye rendering of Core 2 Shore, where this link, or spine, is clearly visible. While the C2S plans have shifted around this, the spine itself remains in tact. http://www.okc.gov/planning/coretoshore/visuals/idea_1_full_size.jpg
(http://www.okc.gov/planning/coretoshore/visuals/idea_1_full_size.jpg)

FritterGirl: thanks for all of the great information. It is appreciated!

I think what we are saying is that the parks aren't connected by park space (just a few trees along the roadway). The renderings I have looked at in the City's Core to Shore report indicate the MG and the string of MAPS 3 parks are separated by the "mixed use" development (same length as the Ford Center...2 blocks(?). It appears that the MAPS 3 parks are all connecting each other (just separated by the needed roads etc). Why not connect the MG with the MAPS 3 parks like the MAPS 3 parks are connected with each other? I guess what we are asking is, why the mixed use development interruption?

I understand they are preliminary renderings/plans and the final result may indeed give the feel of one continuous space. But it doesn't look that way on paper.

I think (and I'm just guessing here), that because they had housing planned for two sides of the park and the convention center for a third, they decided they needed to put mixed use in there somewhere. But, if the convention center is not built on the east side of the park, that side could be made available for mixed use and the Central Park(or Norick Park, as I call it in my mind) continue south from the Myriad Gardens.

FritterGirl: thanks for all of the great information. It is appreciated!

I think what we are saying is that the parks aren't connected by park space (just a few trees along the roadway). The renderings I have looked at in the City's Core to Shore report indicate the MG and the string of MAPS 3 parks are separated by the "mixed use" development (same length as the Ford Center...2 blocks(?). It appears that the MAPS 3 parks are all connecting each other (just separated by the needed roads etc). Why not connect the MG with the MAPS 3 parks like the MAPS 3 parks are connected with each other? I guess what we are asking is, why the mixed use development interruption?

I understand they are preliminary renderings/plans and the final result may indeed give the feel of one continuous space. But it doesn't look that way on paper.


I'm not involved at all in C2S stuff, so really have very little authority on the matter, although I did sit in on the steering committee meetings, and do hear things from time to time.

It's still so early in the process that it's hard to say exactly what will happen. Suffice it to say, from what I know, it is the INTENT of planners to connect the MBG with the other developments in C2S through this "spine." However, there are just way too many factors to consider in the development of this area to state unequivocally that this will happen.

If realized, the spine, as started in the Gardens, is to have a distinct aesthetic that distinguishes it as a line of connectivity from the MBG and all the way down through the C2S area.

I went downtown the other day, it makes me so excited for what's to come... But everytime i see those cranes by the colcord building I get a tear in my eye...... cant wait to see our downtown upgrades completed

Um. Not quite sure what to say here. If you look at the bird's-eye view of the site plan, you will see a north-south walkway that runs through the Gardens - quite literally through the Crystal Bridge. This is the northern portion of what is being called the "Harvey Spine" in the C2S project. The south plaza of the CB is the northern entry portal for C2S. It's kind of hard to see without looking at it as a whole, but that's what it is.

The link below shows an early bird's eye rendering of Core 2 Shore, where this link, or spine, is clearly visible. While the C2S plans have shifted around this, the spine itself remains in tact. http://www.okc.gov/planning/coretoshore/visuals/idea_1_full_size.jpg
(http://www.okc.gov/planning/coretoshore/visuals/idea_1_full_size.jpg)

Not at all meaning to post something that would give you pause..that was just mostly my criticism of the C2S plan and the little island of mixed-use between the central park and Myriad Gardens...one of the many peculiarities I don't understand about C2S. I am glad the Myriad renovations make much more sense.

That's messed up they took all the trees?

Change your avatar. Seriously..

And I took it as a visual going along with the comment...seemed to fit...LOL

.......While the horticulture aspect of the Gardens was in good shape, some of the architectural features were starting to fall into at least a state of minimal disrepair, although structurally things are still in good shape..........[/URL]

Ha, minimal disrepair, everything below grade leaks like a sieve, from the plaza above the Dean A. McGee Center to the expansion joint between the Crystal Bridge and other below grade spaces. There have been attempts and $$ to fix these problems but all failed. To my knowledge this issue is not being addressed in the renovation. The spaces below should be deamed storm sewer and closed to public.........

That's messed up they took all the trees?

Think of it like breaking eggs to make an omelet. You'll probably enjoy the end result.

And I took it as a visual going along with the comment...seemed to fit...LOL

That's what was scrary.

I'm probably in the minority, but I think I'll miss the berms. We don't have much rolling terrain in OKC and I thought it was nice to have. Hopefully, they won't be completely eliminated.

Change your avatar. Seriously..

You need to learn to be nice and say 'please' at least. Seriously.

I'm probably in the minority, but I think I'll miss the berms. We don't have much rolling terrain in OKC and I thought it was nice to have. Hopefully, they won't be completely eliminated.

Berms are another way of saying "keep out." I'll take more people instead of the berms any day. There's nothing more depressing than an empty city park, and that's what we've had all these years.

Berms are another way of saying "keep out." I'll take more people instead of the berms any day. There's nothing more depressing than an empty city park, and that's what we've had all these years.
I understand what you're saying, but I've never felt the berms were any sort of barrier to entry. On the contrary, they provided seclusion and solitude in the middle of the city. During the arts festival it was teaming with people that didn't seem to have a problem with the berms. The rolling terrain was part of the fun for my kids as they ran up and down the hills, playing in the grass.

I don't think the reason the park was often empty is due to the berms. More likely, the reason is that nobody lives near the park so it's not going to be used that much. I've lived in OKC for over 25 years and I've only been in the park (after my initial visit) during the arts festival and the occasional visit during the holidays. The berms were never a factor in that.

I'm sure the park renovations will be nice in their own way though. I'm looking forward to watching it change

Monk, berms have been proven to be people barriers, although I agree they look nicer, I don't think many people will argue that. Keep in mind there will still be some hills and a natural type amphitheatre on the East Central part of the park where the pond was/is.

Your point proven the park was only packed during the arts festival, never any other times during the year. I live near the park, and so do 2,000+ downtown residents, not to mention 55,000 downtown workers and countless conventioners. It's the most concentrated part of the city with people, and it still failed to live up to expectations. Let's see how much busier it is the first year it reopens.

Notice the trees that have been remvoed
April 20
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1235/4598080559_15ae5be2ec_o.jpg

May 10
http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1318/4598080653_c548f46d8c_o.jpg

Speaking of trees, please take a look at this article in this morning's Oklahoman (http://www.newsok.com/frankfurt-short-bruza-notes-65-years-of-business-in-oklahoma-city-with-significant-donation/article/3460434?custom_click=pod_headline_financial).

Frankfurt Short Bruza is donating $50,000 worth of trees to the Myriad Botanical Gardens in honor of their 65th Anniversary.

They will make a presentation at today's downtown Rotary meeting.

FritterGirl, thanks for posting. I'm just curious, is the $50,000 in additional trees even necessary since it is undergoing a multi-million dollar renovation already? Seems to me the donation would have been better served landscaping the severely neglected Red Andrews Park over by St. Anthony's at Shartel and 7th.

It was FSB's call to make the donation to the Foundation, who graciously accepted it!

Metro,

that means that there will be $50,000 to be spent on making the park better in other areas. They have some incredible fountains planned that could cost $50,000, so just look at it as an investment in the park.

Frittergirl I have a tree or two that I would like to donate.

No worries, just was curious, I was under the impression that the park was fully funded. Either way, I'm sure they'll use a few hundred and put a plaque honoring themselves, FSB, and the $50,000 will go into the trust or whatever. I'd love to see a DT corporation step up and donate to Red Andrews park over in the MidTown/SoSA area.

No worries, just was curious, I was under the impression that the park was fully funded. Either way, I'm sure they'll use a few hundred and put a plaque honoring themselves, FSB, and the $50,000 will go into the trust or whatever. I'd love to see a DT corporation step up and donate to Red Andrews park over in the MidTown/SoSA area.

This is not intended as a slam to the MBG in any way, manner, shape or form.

Think it may be a case where the one getting the attention gets even more. Think of a celebrity that makes millions and gets all sorts of freebies thrown their way. They don't need them or even want them, but who would turn free stuff down? To the credit of some, they will give to their assistants, staff etc. Some donate the stuff to other charities etc.

The MBG is higher profile. Until your post I hadn't even heard of the Red Andrews Park.

The donation was made to the Myriad Gardens FOUNDATION, which is the ancillary funding support arm for the Gardens. The Foundation will work with city staff on the procurement of the trees.

The Parks Department regularly welcomes donations by groups all the time for trees. Generally, these are coordinated through community partner agencies such as OKC Beautiful and/or the Oklahoma Tree Bank Foundation.

Their efforts have helped plant multiple trees in City parks.

Metro,

that means that there will be $50,000 to be spent on making the park better in other areas. They have some incredible fountains planned that could cost $50,000, so just look at it as an investment in the park.

Frittergirl I have a tree or two that I would like to donate.

I don't think they literally gave them trees. I think they gave them the cash with the requirement that it be used to buy trees.

Seems to me the donation would have been better served landscaping the severely neglected Red Andrews Park over by St. Anthony's at Shartel and 7th.

Random...

Did someone say a MG blog is in the works to help us keep up with the progress? Now that they have erected a concrete barrier around the park, it's getting more difficult to peek in on the dirt movement.

Blog is still a work in progress. Hopefully will be up and running soon. (There's only one of me, sorry!)

In the interim, I've added a few photos to the City's new flickr account. You can see them HERE (http://www.flickr.com/photos/50408515@N06/). If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I tried to add detailed descriptions to the photos so people could get a sense of what is going on.

Great pics FritterGirl, these really help add sense of scale and perspective to what's going on. Hope you don't mind me posting one of your pics here.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4645960288_04e7fcaeb3.jpg

Wow, with the turf cut out as well it looks like a piece of heaven! How many of these trees are they moving a day?

That I don't really know.

They have transplanted over 20 trees, which are being added to the collection of trees at the Will Rogers Gardens' arboretum.

Another twenty or so have been taken to Will Rogers Gardens for temporary placement, where they are set near one another on the ground, root balls in tact, and then covered with soil and mulch. They will be held there until transported back to the MBG.

Some of the larger trees they cannot transport very far, so they will be lifted with cranes and placed in temporary holding areas in other places in the Gardens.

I'll try to come up with some numbers for you all.

The tree folks were a bit delayed because of last week's rain, which held them at bay for a few days, since like everything else in town, the Gardens were a muddy slog.

What I find most interesting about the pictures (aside from the trees) is you can see the interior wall of the old concourse system with the painted blocks on it. Very 70s retro.

Need a quick answer in about 30 minutes, please. Is the gift shop still open?

Need a quick answer in about 30 minutes, please. Is the gift shop still open?

Hi Thunder,

No. The gift shop is not open. The entire outdoor grounds, as well as Crystal Bridge is under construction. Gift shop had to close.

SUCKS!!! When will it reopen?

SUCKS!!! When will it reopen?

Likely when the Gardens themselves re-open, in April, 2011.

Likely when the Gardens themselves re-open, in April, 2011.

Only place to find kool outdoor gifts for my aunt's birthday. :-(

I was curious about the gift shop myself when I saw it in the budget cuts. So the plan is for it to return, right?

I was curious about the gift shop myself when I saw it in the budget cuts. So the plan is for it to return, right?

Of course it will return. They make crazy profits on those things, so yeah, it will be back.

Great pics FritterGirl, these really help add sense of scale and perspective to what's going on. Hope you don't mind me posting one of your pics here.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4004/4645960288_04e7fcaeb3.jpg

That is encouraging. Hope they continue this idea when they get to landscaping the MAPS 3 park, Boulevard and Project 180. I admit I am spoiled when it comes to these types of things as lived in the Disney World area for 10 years. When Disney does anything, they go all out on it. Landscaping with mature trees and plants that look like they have always been there.

As they said near the closing of the ULI presentation, the best time to plant a tree is 30 years ago. The next best time is now

Especially if you can transplant mature trees that make it look like they were planted 30 years ago. This was one of my main faults with the Canal when it opened. I had believed the media hype and was expecting the San Antonio River Walk and at least the level of the Myriad Gardens. Talk about a shock. Went down on the opening July 4th weekend and what landscaping there was, was dead or dying (we found out later that the contractor had planted non-indigenous). The trees were saplings. Several years later it is finally starting to look like what I expected from opening day.

horrible tree damage in the Myriad Gardens....like a tornado passed through..

I was curious about the gift shop myself when I saw it in the budget cuts. So the plan is for it to return, right?

At this time, there are plans for a return, but the question remains in what capacity. The steering committee is working with the same team consulting on restaurants to also discuss retail implications (the group specializes in retail/restaurant development for cultural attractions). Some of the questions being considered are types of merchandise made available, plus whether to have the city run the shop or work through an outside contractor.

They cleared out all of the merchandise with mark-down sales prior to and during Festival, and having the Gift Shop closed means there are inherent savings in paying to keep the space operational, inventory and/or personnel costs.


Of course it will return. They make crazy profits on those things, so yeah, it will be back.

Thunder, while it is certainly hopeful that any new shop concept would make money, there are no guarantees in retail - EVER.

Only place to find kool outdoor gifts for my aunt's birthday. :-(

Wilshire Garden Market on Wilshire just east of May is a great place for garden-inspired gifts.

You have to register into your Facebook account and I'm not sure if his profile is set to "private" but Peter Dolese (Arts Council OKC) just posted 95 current photos of the Myriad Gardens makeover Login | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2064885&id=1167169409)

Here are a few:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs591.snc3/31146_1472888700001_1167169409_31378237_3065422_n. jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs531.ash1/31146_1472890020034_1167169409_31378251_470550_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs591.snc3/31146_1472881779828_1167169409_31378173_7389007_n. jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs531.ash1/31146_1472883099861_1167169409_31378187_999612_n.j pg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs591.snc3/31146_1472881779828_1167169409_31378173_7389007_n. jpg

I'm wondering if they're just going to bury that wall. It has been demo'ed to that state for several weeks now.

I'm wondering if they're just going to bury that wall. It has been demo'ed to that state for several weeks now.

They are working on in-filling what was the north lake and blossom hill area. The wall will be largely covered, but the area will be regraded with more gently sloping hills (ADA accessible) and not steep drop-offs.

Yeah I knew that. What I meant was that it appears (and you have confirmed) that the concrete wall will be buried as opposed to ripped out.

[QUOTE=Pete Brzycki;337791]Here are a few:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs531.ash1/31146_1472890020034_1167169409_31378251_470550_n.j pg


Yes! So glad to see they have started on this!

I heard they were going to replace the exolite plastic surface with clear glass. Though understandable, it will be a shame. The exolite was translucent not transparent, so one could only make out vague shapes of what was inside, so you wanted to go in and see the detail. But, what was better was that when you were inside the skin "glowed" white so that it transmitted or lazed light down to areas that would not have gotten it otherwise. Better yet, it transported you to a different world where you could not see the outside - and were instead immersed in a tropical setting with no reference to what was outside. I have worked in Conservatories (including the CB) both where you could and could not see the outside. It is always better when you can't. Now to experience this you will have to travel south to the Dallas World Aquarium. Daryl, the owner, got many of his ideas from the CB - he visited all the time before he opened the Conservatory at the DWA. I would hope they would glaze the glass, but I suspect they wont. The exolite was brittle - thus its downfall, but it was a great insulator. I can remember snow falls where it was 70 degrees inside and the snow still built up on the outside on top. I know they are using new technologies, I would be curious to know the details. Does anyone know the details of glass they are going to use?

You have to register into your Facebook account and I'm not sure if his profile is set to "private" but Peter Dolese (Arts Council OKC) just posted 95 current photos of the Myriad Gardens makeover Login | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2064885&id=1167169409)

Is Peter Dolese of the Dolese concrete company?

Love this photo.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs571.snc3/31146_1472883299866_1167169409_31378189_1258983_n. jpg

They really are doing quite a bit of damage out there. I hope it will all be restored without serious impact.

[QUOTE=Pete Brzycki;337791]Here are a few:

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/hs531.ash1/31146_1472890020034_1167169409_31378251_470550_n.j pg


Yes! So glad to see they have started on this!


Love this photo.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs571.snc3/31146_1472883299866_1167169409_31378189_1258983_n. jpg

Taken out of context these pics look like they belong over in the Tornado thread...

Are the glass panes going to be larger?

Is Peter Dolese of the Dolese concrete company?

Kin but no association with company or proceeds thereof.