Are you saying that you believe a majority support the current laws?

I've never seen any polling data or any other evidence that a majority want them changed... Have you?

Yes, or don't feel there's any major need to change them.

The current laws are totally incompatible with the concept of small government, both from an individual freedom perspective and a free market perspective. What is the point in keeping the ridiculous restrictions in place? If the intent is to legislate sobriety its not working.

The current laws are totally incompatible with the concept of small government, both from an individual freedom perspective and a free market perspective. What is the point in keeping the ridiculous restrictions in place? If the intent is to legislate sobriety its not working.

I'm not saying it's a good thing... I'm just saying that's what the majority thinks. Otherwise, it'd be a lot easier to get petitions through to change stuff.

Don't think there's any data to support what the majority wants or doesn't want.

Oklahoma wants to become competitive with neighboring states; it doesn't look good when you have a situation where wine & a higher point/volume of beer can't be sold in the grocery stores; beer can't be refrigerated in the liquor stores or mixes for liquor can't be sold in the liquor stores.

These pre-21st century restrictions on alcohol makes Oklahoma (Mother-Hen Syndrome) look out-of-touch and antiquated with the current trends.

Personally, I don't drink or smoke; however when my relatives arrive they talk about how out-of-touch Oklahoma is with these restrictions on ordinary access to alcohol. I've seen them in tears they were laughing so hard until I couldn't help but smile and shake my head. My uncle transports 4 cases of Houston, Texas beer whenever he comes to OKC to visit relatives. He says he doesn't have time for Oklahome's foolishness.

That just seems silly. We have more liquor stores and density of liquor stores than just about anywhere else in the country. Accessibility is NOT a problem. I have an easier time buying beer and liquor here than I do in much of Texas.

I mean, I'd love to see some improvements to our laws, but people who are overly dramatic and pull hair and gnash teeth and act like we're in some horror wasteland of laws haven't spent enough time in other states. I'm mean, sure, there are some states where the laws are better in some ways, and some that are totally libertarian and some where they're much worse.

At least private owners can own liquor stores here, and they're not all owned by the state. At least we can buy cases of beer, and aren't limited to individual bottles. I mean, there are some really, really, really stupid liquor laws out there and many of them are in fairly blue/progressive states. There are a variety of laws across the country, and on balance I'd say we're somewhere in the middle of the pack in the restrictiveness of them.

I believe the majority are indifferent and/or in informed regarding options.
That was supposed to read "UNinformed". Thanks, iPad!

Personally, I don't drink or smoke; however when my relatives arrive they talk about how out-of-touch Oklahoma is with these restrictions on ordinary access to alcohol. I've seen them in tears they were laughing so hard until I couldn't help but smile and shake my head. My uncle transports 4 cases of Houston, Texas beer whenever he comes to OKC to visit relatives. He says he doesn't have time for Oklahome's foolishness.
It wasn't that long ago (less than 10 years) that Dallas County still had wet/dry areas by voting district. That has to rank up there with silliness.



At least private owners can own liquor stores here, and they're not all owned by the state. At least we can buy cases of beer, and aren't limited to individual bottles. I mean, there are some really, really, really stupid liquor laws out there and many of them are in fairly blue/progressive states. There are a variety of laws across the country, and on balance I'd say we're somewhere in the middle of the pack in the restrictiveness of them.
According to Wiki and some other sources there are 18 states with some form of state owned liquor distribution although the level of it varies. My father said when he was stationed in Virginia in the early 60's the state owned package stores had everything in the back and you had to tell them what you wanted and they would go back and get it. One place only sold the little airplane bottles but I can't remember where that was. Liquor sales didn't become privatized in Washington state until June 2012.

Wikipedia - Alcoholic beverage control state (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alcoholic_beverage_control_state)


The eighteen control or monopoly jurisdictions as of June 2012 are:
Alabama – Liquor stores are state-run or on-premise establishments with a special off-premise license.[2]

Idaho – Maintains a monopoly over sales of beverages with greater than 16% ABV.

Iowa – All spirits are sold to privately owned retailers by the Iowa Alcoholic Beverages Division. Beer and wine can be sold by private license-holders.[3]

Maine – State-contracted to private businesses for commission.

Maryland – Private liquor stores sell beer, wine, and spirits in most of the state. However under state law, Montgomery, Somerset and Wicomico counties are county alcohol-controlled, which mandates that off-premise liquor sales are to be conducted only at county-owned and operated stores. An exception exists in Montgomery County, in that four grocery stores have grandfathered licenses.[4] Until 2008, Dorchester County was an alcohol control county until the County Council voted to permanently close the county owned liquor dispensaries, with subsequent change in the state law.[5] Until July, 2014, Worcester was an alcohol control county until the Maryland General Assembly abolished the Liquor Control Board by statute, replacing it with the Department of Liquor Control.[6]

Michigan – Does not operate retail outlets, but maintains a monopoly over wholesaling of distilled spirits only.

Mississippi – State-contracted liquor stores.

Montana – State-contracted liquor stores, modeled after the Alberta Gaming and Liquor Commission.[7]

New Hampshire – Beer and wine can be sold at supermarkets and convenience stores. Spirits and liqueurs are sold only in state-run liquor stores.

North Carolina – Beer and wine can be sold in supermarkets and convenience stores. Other spirits must be sold in liquor stores owned by local ABC boards. The State ABC Commission controls wholesale distribution and oversees local ABC boards. Prices for bottles of liquor are specified by the North Carolina ABC Commission and are the same throughout the state. The price list is updated quarterly. "Sales" on certain liquors are held monthly, and all ABC outlets in the state use the same special pricing. "Holiday" or "gift" packages, typically released by distillers around Thanksgiving and Christmas, are sold at the same price as standard bottles of the enclosed liquor, regardless of the included accessories (flasks, rocks glasses, shot glasses, cocktail shakers, etc.).

Ohio – Appoints businesses to sell liquor, as agents of the state, for a commission. These stores have a monopoly on sales of beverages with an alcohol content equal to or greater than 21.5% ABV (43 proof). Beer, wine, mixed alcoholic beverages, and "low proof" alcohol are sold by the aforementioned contract liquor agencies as well as by businesses (bars, restaurants, convenience stores, and gasoline/convenience store retailers) which have been issued an annual permit to sell. Privileges (such as sale for carryout only, or for consumption on the premises) and hours during which sales are allowed are dependent on the terms of the permit.

Oregon – Beer and wine can be sold in supermarkets and convenience stores. Other spirits must be sold in liquor stores operated and managed by state-appointed liquor agents who act as independent contractors under the supervision of the OLCC.

Pennsylvania – All wine and spirits are sold in Pennsylvania Liquor Control Board stores, known as 'State Stores'. Malt beverages are sold in case lots by licensed beer retailers known as 'distributors', and in smaller quantities by on-premise establishments. The number of licenses to serve alcohol (including beer and wine) in restaurants is limited based on county populations.[8]

Utah – All beverages over 3.2% ABW (4.0% ABV) are sold in state-run stores, Utah code 5(a)(i).[9]

Vermont – Liquor stores are state-contracted and licensed.

Virginia – Beer and wine ≤14% ABV is sold at supermarkets and convenience stores. All liquor stores are run by the state.

West Virginia – Does not operate retail outlets, but maintains a monopoly over wholesaling of distilled spirits only.

Wyoming – Does not operate retail outlets. Maintains monopoly on wholesale importation. Although licenses are issued by local licensing authorities, all liquor licenses must be approved by the state, and licenses are limited by population density.[10]

Several municipalities in Minnesota and South Dakota are also control jurisdictions, where the revenue generated from alcohol sales goes directly to the municipality.

About one-quarter of the United States population lives in liquor control or government monopoly states.

Yes, or don't feel there's any major need to change them.

Oklahoma has never had much of a drinking or bar culture, since alcohol was prohibited at statehood and stayed that way until 1959. If you seldom, if ever drink anything stronger than beer, it's likely any liquor's store legal inability to sell bottle openers and other paraphernalia is going to rank around 9999 on your list of issues to be concerned about.

Oklahoma has never had much of a legal drinking or bar culture, since alcohol was prohibited at statehood and stayed that way until 1959....

Fixed that for you.

It wasn't that long ago (less than 10 years) that Dallas County still had wet/dry areas by voting district. That has to rank up there with silliness.

Dallas is a true dilemma; especially the area near the campus of SMU.

Dallas is a true dilemma; especially the area near the campus of SMU.

Laramie, what do you mean? I did my undergraduate down there from 88-92 and don't remember anything odd with respect to the drinking laws. But it could be that I just don't remember. :)

Yeah, I'm not sure how it was around SMU but University Park/Highland Park may have some local rules that didn't apply to the City of Dallas. I lived around Forest Lane-635-Audelia in 91-93 and I was in a dry area except for the Unicard bars/restaurants. I had to go to Buckingham or Greenville just south of Royal Oaks Country Club to buy anything for the house. When the Sam's Club moved from Garland off 635 to Greenville & Park Lane that was nice because they were able to add beer & wine.

Yeah, I'm not sure how it was around SMU but University Park/Highland Park may have some local rules that didn't apply to the City of Dallas. I lived around Forest Lane-635-Audelia in 91-93 and I was in a dry area except for the Unicard bars/restaurants. I had to go to Buckingham or Greenville just south of Royal Oaks Country Club to buy anything for the house. When the Sam's Club moved from Garland off 635 to Greenville & Park Lane that was nice because they were able to add beer & wine.

Yeah, that may very well have been. And I was underage until midway through Junior year anyway, so the alcohol I consumed was purchased/provided by someone other than myself. I do remember those Unicard restaurants, though. That was weird.

What if boils down to is that if you want change in government policy in Oklahoma, you have to have to be one of very many who wants it. At this same time last year many state legislators would have thought, "You have got to be kidding", if told they would be voting to end Common Core in Oklahoma. But thanks to many citizens contacting their legislators as the session when on, they decided Common Core had to go.

Geez I see bchris has painted this whole thread with his whole "Christian right is holding Oklahoma back" mantra. Maybe it's because I'm Lutheran but the religious conservatives I know enjoy a good drink.

If we allow refrigeration in liqour stores them grocery should get more than 3.2 options. Liqour stores should also be able to sell set ups and food should they want (see Specs in Houston)

Geez I see bchris has painted this whole thread with his whole "Christian right is holding Oklahoma back" mantra. Maybe it's because I'm Lutheran but the religious conservatives I know enjoy a good drink.

Most of the religious conservatives I know, especially the younger ones, also enjoy beer. It isn't all religious people or evangelicals holding the state back on this issue. It's the conservative base, consisting of mostly people over 60 who the state GOP must pander to that are the issue.

Geez I see bchris has painted this whole thread with his whole "Christian right is holding Oklahoma back" mantra. Maybe it's because I'm Lutheran but the religious conservatives I know enjoy a good drink.

If we allow refrigeration in liqour stores them grocery should get more than 3.2 options. Liqour stores should also be able to sell set ups and food should they want (see Specs in Houston)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUD71SgdfSE

Most of the religious conservatives I know, especially the younger ones, also enjoy beer. It isn't all religious people or evangelicals holding the state back on this issue. It's the conservative base, consisting of mostly people over 60 who the state GOP must pander to that are the issue.

My pastor is over 60 and brews his own :)

Proposed bill would allow refrigeration in liquor stores | News OK (http://newsok.com/proposed-bill-would-allow-refrigeration-in-liquor-stores/article/5386842?nextArticle=1)

YES PLEASE!

What are the chances of this actually being passed?

A step in the right direction

A step in the right direction

If this passes, the only thing that will be left in terms of restrictions for consumers is later closing times and Sunday sales. The cold beer restriction is the absolute worst and dumbest part of Oklahoma's liquor laws. If this passes, it will be a HUGE step.

Proposed bill would allow refrigeration in liquor stores | News OK (http://newsok.com/proposed-bill-would-allow-refrigeration-in-liquor-stores/article/5386842?nextArticle=1)

YES PLEASE!

What are the chances of this actually being passed?Don't get your hopes up. I am excited for several bills that have been introduced so far, but I'm trying to get too excited. :p

The way it's being worded helps it, I think. The definition of beer in title 37 is rather ambiguous if I remember right. Likewise I'm not sure if room temperature is defined, since the bill states "chilled to a temperature that is below room temperature".

That said at least there's something happening!

If this passes, the only thing that will be left in terms of restrictions for consumers is later closing times and Sunday sales. The cold beer restriction is the absolute worst and dumbest part of Oklahoma's liquor laws. If this passes, it will be a HUGE step.

And sales in grocery stores.

And sales in grocery stores.

True. Thing is though, from a consumer perspective why would you absolutely need grocery store sales if liquor stores could refrigerate beer as well as be open late and Sundays? Most people in OKC have easier access to a liquor store than a grocery store. From a consumer perspective, making those changes would really be all that's necessary for the sake of convenience. I would ultimately like to see grocery store sales, but that is more due to the fact it could help bring nicer and more diverse grocery options to OKC, plus free up the market, rather than it granting much added convenience.

Liquor stores in Austin close at 11:00 and are closed on Sundays, the grocery store sales help mitigate some of the access issue but they still have a nightly time restriction and no beer/wine sales before noon on Sunday. To me the liquor store hours are not as big of an issue as refrigeration and grocery store sales.

Ours here in Denver can be open until midnight and on Sunday but many choose to close on Sunday and earlier during the week. We also don't have high point beer or wine in grocery stores.

Liquor stores in Austin close at 11:00 and are closed on Sundays, the grocery store sales help mitigate some of the access issue but they still have a nightly time restriction and no beer/wine sales before noon on Sunday. To me the liquor store hours are not as big of an issue as refrigeration and grocery store sales.

Ours here in Denver can be open until midnight and on Sunday but many choose to close on Sunday and earlier during the week. We also don't have high point beer or wine in grocery stores.It's still nice as a business to have the option to sell liquor on Sundays in what is called a free country.

An article in today's Oklahoman: " Bill would allow liquor stores to sell cold beer."


Excerpts:



Senate Bill 383, by Sen. Stephanie Bice, R-Oklahoma City, would amend state law to allow liquor stores to refrigerate beer.

Consumers would still have to purchase high-point beer at liquor stores. Bice said making refrigeration optional could be done with a statutory change and is something many other states already allow.

Jill Ogden, manager of 2nd Street Wine Co. in Edmond, said she agreed refrigeration would encourage other craft breweries to ship to Oklahoma.

Can't be. As people said, things will never change, we're too backwards, AB, religion, blah blah blah. No chance of a bill being proposed to put cold beer in stores... amiright?

I'm just wondering about the logistics of this. Two of my main stores are fairly small and all ready packed. If they try to move some coolers in they won't have much room left.

I'm just wondering about the logistics of this. Two of my main stores are fairly small and all ready packed. If they try to move some coolers in they won't have much room left.

Some stores just wont, and long term, they'll go out of business. I know we looked at what we would have to do, and it would involve knocking down a wall...

Some stores just wont, and long term, they'll go out of business. I know we looked at what we would have to do, and it would involve knocking down a wall...Do you own a liquor store? If so, I'll start shopping at your store. I don't drink myself, but I make runs for my grandmother and such.

Do you own a liquor store? If so, I'll start shopping at your store. I don't drink myself, but I make runs for my grandmother and such.

We used to, but sold it a couple of years back.

I'm just wondering about the logistics of this. Two of my main stores are fairly small and all ready packed. If they try to move some coolers in they won't have much room left.

Couldn't the coolers be substituted for the racks of beer? Take beer off racks, put coolers in place of racks, turn coolers on, put beer in coolers? Maybe not in every store, but seems simple enough...

Some stores just wont, and long term, they'll go out of business.

Does most liquor stores' profits come primarily from beer or from wine/spirits? For instance if I was a store owner and I didn't want to invest in refrigeration, I would have to accept that I may not be able to compete on beer and would shift the focus to wine and spirits where refrigeration isn't necessary.

Does most liquor stores' profits come primarily from beer or from wine/spirits? For instance if I was a store owner and I didn't want to invest in refrigeration, I would have to accept that I may not be able to compete on beer and would shift the focus to wine and spirits where refrigeration isn't necessary.

Beer is a decent profit center. Wine is the top in Oklahoma. Spirits are almost nothing (really, a break even or loss leader section). The markup on spirits in Oklahoma is almost non-existent. A shop could survive on wine sales alone, but I think customers might shift to stores that provided cold beer AND wine. That being said, I think someone could make a decent go of a special wine shop, if they stocked/managed it well.

Quick list of those that would be opposed?

Hell........not me. I'm kind of partial to a cold beer over a warm one.
:)

Quick list of those that would be opposed?

Loves, 7-11, etc...

I only skimmed this thread, but to provide some context, many liquor laws actually derived as part of a women's movement because drunk men were more likely to beat women during times when women had very little legal or social recourse. So, all these laws aren't nevessarily about being backwards nationally (I can't speak to Oklahoma's laws specifically), but they are outdated and unnecessary. (Not that domestic violence is not still a problem, it is, but these laws do not seem to deter it).

I only skimmed this thread, but to provide some context, many liquor laws actually derived as part of a women's movement because drunk men were more likely to beat women during times when women had very little legal or social recourse. So, all these laws aren't nevessarily about being backwards nationally (I can't speak to Oklahoma's laws specifically), but they are outdated and unnecessary. (Not that domestic violence is not still a problem, it is, but these laws do not seem to deter it).

The temperance movement and push for prohibition was considered a progressive cause in the 1900s and 1910s. It's just most states moved on from that experiment in the 1930s after the election of FDR. Oklahoma didn't.

It's still nice as a business to have the option to sell liquor on Sundays in what is called a free country.
Free country? Keep telling yourself that. There are other much more "liberal" states which have more restrictions and open times and ownership than Oklahoma. Like I posted earlier, many have state controlled liquor distribution from wholesale to retail....and most of those would be considered "progressive states"

You still can''t buy a car on Sunday in many states, Colorado is one along with Oklahoma. In Texas the dealer has the option of what weekend day to be open, if you are open on Sunday you have to close on Saturday. I remember blue laws still being in effect in the early 80's in some cities of the DFW area.

Free country? Keep telling yourself that. There are other much more "liberal" states which have more restrictions and open times and ownership than Oklahoma. Like I posted earlier, many have state controlled liquor distribution from wholesale to retail....and most of those would be considered "progressive states"

You still can''t buy a car on Sunday in many states, Colorado is one along with Oklahoma. In Texas the dealer has the option of what weekend day to be open, if you are open on Sunday you have to close on Saturday. I remember blue laws still being in effect in the early 80's in some cities of the DFW area.
Did we ever figure out why cars are so special that it was judged that they can't be sold on Sunday?

It's a holdover from blue laws that once restricted far more activities than car sales, but nowadays auto dealers would fight a change in the law. Basically it guarantees that they can take one day off per week and not lose any sales to other dealers. And since adding a day wouldn't necessarily increase customer demand, a mandated day off reduces expenses, again probably without costing sales. Oklahoma by far is not alone in auto sales blue laws, BTW.

Did we ever figure out why cars are so special that it was judged that they can't be sold on Sunday?
When I worked the collector car auctions for John Hoke we used to have to have a certain percentage of "classic cars" run on Sunday to classify as a car show, that is why so many of the older cars was run across the block on that day.

I do know that some of the motorcycle/powersports mega-dealers in Texas were open on Saturday and Sunday when I lived in Austin but none of the car dealers were open both weekend days. Most of the independent motorcycle/powersports were closed on Sunday and some also were closed on Monday as was tradition in the industry.

Here in Denver I haven't seen either car or motorcycle/powersports dealers open on Sunday. Most motorcycle/powersports are also closed on Monday up here like what I remember in Oklahoma.

Motorcycle shops being closed Sun-Mon is a traditional holdover from the days when most shops were heavily involved in racing. "Race on Sunday, rest on Monday." Monday was their only true day off.

Loves, 7-11, etc...

Simply from increased competition, high point cold beer versus low point cold beer?

What about thoughts on bill 424?

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2015-16%20INT/SB/SB424%20INT.PDF

The refrigeration, I think, actually has a chance. Breweries being able to sell direct however doesn't stand a chance. They need to be able to sell direct. Even better (which this proposal doesn't include) is the ability to have a taproom and sell for on-premise consumption.

Simply from increased competition, high point cold beer versus low point cold beer?

What about thoughts on bill 424?

http://webserver1.lsb.state.ok.us/cf_pdf/2015-16%20INT/SB/SB424%20INT.PDF

The refrigeration, I think, actually has a chance. Breweries being able to sell direct however doesn't stand a chance. They need to be able to sell direct. Even better (which this proposal doesn't include) is the ability to have a taproom and sell for on-premise consumption.

The brewery issue is the reason that OKC doesn't have the kind of brewpub culture other cities do. Personally I see that as more likely to pass than refrigeration since its similar to what has already been done with the wineries. Refrigeration is going to face stiff opposition from smaller liquor stores who don't want to have to pay for the refrigeration systems and who don't want competition with stores who do. While I don't expect it to be as big of a deal as it was in years past, I will be surprised if there isn't also a pushback from the religious right and from MADD groups over refrigeration. Still, I hope it does pass and if it does, it will be the biggest change for Oklahoma liquor laws since liquor by the drink.

From the JR:

Cool cases, hot prospect: Bill allowing chilled beer at liquor stores could bring more brewers to state

By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record January 23, 2015

OKLAHOMA CITY – There are about 675 liquor stores across the state, filled with concoctions ranging from marshmallow-flavored vodka to bacon doughnut beer. State Sen. Stephanie Bice, R-Piedmont, is concerned about the beer; she wants alcohol retailers to be able to sell high-alcohol-content beer cold.

Bice is a fan of the suds herself, and said she has heard from other Oklahomans that the law regarding beer sales needs to change. Senate Bill 383 would allow beer to be sold below room temperature at liquor stores; no other beverages are mentioned. She said some laws regarding alcohol must be taken to the people, but this change can be made by the Legislature.

“I felt like it would be a positive change for the consumers,” she said.

It would also be a positive change for the state’s perception by breweries outside the state. Colorado-based New Belgium Brewing Co. Sales Co-Pilot Brian Krueger, who oversees new territory development, said the state’s lack of liquor store refrigeration is a major concern.

“Our beer would not have the capability to be refrigerated all the way to the consumer,” he said. “That has been part of our decision to not go into the Oklahoma market.”

The company sells beer to every state surrounding Oklahoma. He said he has heard from Oklahomans asking why the company’s products cannot be purchased here. He said they often note that New Belgium products are sold at room temperature in Texas or other states.

“It can be displayed warm for 30 days,” he said. “Then it must be refrigerated; otherwise it will change the flavor profile of our beer. For us, in our high-quality standards, we want it to be absolutely consistent.”

Even if Bice’s bill does become a law, Oklahomans shouldn’t expect New Belgium to cross into the state the next day. Krueger said the company is brewing at capacity now and is building a brewery in Nashville, Tennessee, to help meet demand. It is expected to open in 2016.

“We do have a list of states that are next in line (for our products),” he said. “With that legislation, it would help Oklahoma move up on that priority list. There are a few other things to consider, such as distributor laws and having to go through a (liquor) broker. Refrigeration is not the only concern, but it would go a long way in helping us look at Oklahoma in general.”

Allowing liquor stores to add refrigeration will be no small feat, however, and Bice is ready for the battle.

“It will be a challenge to convince some of the House members that this is a positive impact,” she said. “I am hoping they can see the overwhelming support of Oklahomans and go ahead and hear the bill.”

State Rep. James Lockhart, D-Heavener, said via email the bill would not have his support. He historically votes against matters that increase access to alcohol, including the bill – now law – that allows breweries to offer house-made beer samples.

“I had several friends from high school and college die in alcohol-related traffic incidents,” he said. “I generally vote against any legislation that I feel would put more drunk drivers on our roads.”

If the law is passed, liquor store owners would be faced with the decision about adding some type of refrigeration system. A 10-by-12-foot cubic cold storage cooler can cost $7,000 minimum. A walk-in cooler can cost $8,000 to $10,000, with the price going up with size.

Oklahoma Refrigerated Services Manager Jim Denton said he doesn’t know how some liquor stores can put in a cooler because they have a small space.

“A lot of walk-ins are made into the building, so they might not have room for one,” he said.

Nonetheless, Bice said the change would benefit the state’s growing craft beer industry.

“I have received emails and calls from hundreds of Oklahomans that are overwhelmingly in favor of this legislation,” she said. “If nothing else, we’re starting the discussion about changing the laws.”

That bill doesn't allow brewery sales for on premise consumption so having an actual taproom is still out and brewpubs are still limited to 4% beers.

I can see some pushback from small liquor stores on refrigeration but not much, I think most either want to offer it or they don't care at all. I bet there are some that still aren't aware of the proposed legislation. As far as 424 goes the biggest opposition will be the wholesalers, none of those guys want to lose out on their cut. Worse, breweries would likely be scared to publicly support it out of fear of being ostracized.

I can see some pushback from small liquor stores on refrigeration but not much, I think most either want to offer it or they don't care at all.

So, I confused a little by this; would liquor stores be required to install refrigeration or would it just be an option?

From the JR:

State Rep. James Lockhart, D-Heavener, said via email the bill would not have his support. He historically votes against matters that increase access to alcohol, including the bill – now law – that allows breweries to offer house-made beer samples.

“I had several friends from high school and college die in alcohol-related traffic incidents,” he said. “I generally vote against any legislation that I feel would put more drunk drivers on our roads.”

This is going to be the biggest obstacle towards passing something like this. The larger liquor stores with money to actually pull weight i.e. Byrons are more than likely for refrigeration. Our conservative state lawmakers aren't going to want to vote for anything that will offend MADD groups or fundamental Baptists whose votes they rely on.

So, I confused a little by this; would liquor stores be required to install refrigeration or would it just be an option?

It will be an option, but a lot of the smaller stores don't want the expense yet also don't want the competition from the larger stores that opt for refrigeration. I had a discussion with the owner of the small liquor store near where I live regarding it. She said that if it passes, she will have to mark everything up 25-50% to cover the costs or just not offer refrigeration, both of which would cost her business. Understandable from her perspective, but I don't understand how 49 other states have no problems allowing refrigerated beer yet this one does.

It will be an option, but a lot of the smaller stores don't want the expense yet also don't want the competition from the larger stores that opt for refrigeration. I had a discussion with the owner of the small liquor store near where I live regarding it. She said that if it passes, she will have to mark everything up 25-50% to cover the costs or just not offer refrigeration, both of which would cost her business. Understandable from her perspective, but I don't understand how 49 other states have no problems allowing refrigerated beer yet this one does.

This is my biggest issue. How is that all the other states seem to have smaller liquor stores operating in tandem with larger liquor stores? When we went to Maui, we went to Whole Foods to get some snacks and food for breakfast each day. The law in Hawaii is liquor can be sold on the shelves at grocery stores, not unlike several other states. But everywhere we went, there were small liquor stores too. How do those survive?

25-50% markup seems rather extreme. I frequent stores in Texas that have massive walk-ins where 75-90% of their beer is refrigerated, that's certainly not cheap to buy or pay utilities on but at the same time they survive and have competitive prices. Sure a smaller place will be limited but I can't see a three door true cooler breaking the bank causing them to raise prices out of a competitive window or worse, fold for not offering refrigeration. Besides if the bread and butter is all on wine like Jerry says why would they care anyway?

Maybe the mark up would be higher at first and then as sales increase it could decline? I still wonder how this is done in other states and not here.

Maybe the mark up would be higher at first and then as sales increase it could decline? I still wonder how this is done in other states and not here.

Because the coolers were part of the initial cost of getting the stores up and running, and now a new cost on an established store. It will be much easier for the larger stores to absorb the cost, or get a business loan. Many of the small shops are just barely making money.

So in your opinion would $5k really break the bank?

So in your opinion would $5k really break the bank?

Yeah, that's what doesn't make sense to me. I would think if it were that detrimental to the business, maybe focus your sales on wine and liquor and less on beer. I would be curious what the markup on beer, wine and liquor are. I would think beer would be highest and that is where they make their most money.

So in your opinion would $5k really break the bank?

Do you keep $5k sitting around to spare?