Has anybody noticed recently that a lot of beer brands, especially foreign imports, have disappeared from liquor store shelves? Grocery stores, in typical OKC fashion, mostly only sell the basics. I went to Byron's the other day because I wanted to try something new and was surprised how small their beer selection was.

Are these brands gone from Oklahoma permanently or is it just a temporary adjustment? What liquor stores currently have the best beer selection?

not to make this political, but Tariffs between the EU and US, and other countries (or the threat of them) has also stopped a lot of orders on foreign imported beers, I was talking with someone who works as a distributor in North Texas, and they were saying that the cost to import some brands right now is just making it cost prohibitive to bring them in, and thus they are seeing a lot more stores ordering domestic craft beers, which that market was already starting to overtake foreign beers in sales anyways... so my assumption would be this is a reason you are seeing some of what you have witnessed.

Corwin,
You're right, Bacchus has a great selection. I have enjoyed Asahi (Japanese) and an English beer from there. But shopping there isn't great, I don't last long at 33 degrees.
C. T.
p.s. Ok, I'm a weenie but I hate cold and love summer.

Used to frequent the Cellar, or Grand Cru, or whatever they call it nowadays at Britton and May. They have a very good beer selection, including international, but they generally have higher prices as well.



They are ridiculous on their prices. Almost to the point that I feel they should be buying me dinner before screwing me. They have a lot of nice high end bourbons and scotches but they are charging secondary market pricing which I refuse to pay. The Well on Memorial has a great beer selection and liquor selection.

They are ridiculous on their prices. Almost to the point that I feel they should be buying me dinner before screwing me. They have a lot of nice high end bourbons and scotches but they are charging secondary market pricing which I refuse to pay. The Well on Memorial has a great beer selection and liquor selection.

Used to go to the Well when I worked up near there, but then after changing jobs it just became too out of the way. Always enjoyed having a good conversation with knowledgeable folks when in there, but then it seemed like a lot of their staff turned over. Haven't been in for a few years now.

The pricing thing I won't argue on though it's funny. I've done A LOT of comparisons between there and other places (mainly Freeman's.) A bottle of Red Breast Lustau, for instance, was 20% higher at GC than Freeman's ($70 and $85, if memory serves correctly) and then other stuff they'll be dead on or even a little cheaper (I think they had Tin Cup for $1.50 less). I don't know if that's down to different distributors or different markup philosophy or what. Generally the prices are higher than a lot of other places, but I still like the folks that work there, and they have a vast selection.

Used to go to the Well when I worked up near there, but then after changing jobs it just became too out of the way. Always enjoyed having a good conversation with knowledgeable folks when in there, but then it seemed like a lot of their staff turned over. Haven't been in for a few years now.

The pricing thing I won't argue on though it's funny. I've done A LOT of comparisons between there and other places (mainly Freeman's.) A bottle of Red Breast Lustau, for instance, was 20% higher at GC than Freeman's ($70 and $85, if memory serves correctly) and then other stuff they'll be dead on or even a little cheaper (I think they had Tin Cup for $1.50 less). I don't know if that's down to different distributors or different markup philosophy or what. Generally the prices are higher than a lot of other places, but I still like the folks that work there, and they have a vast selection.

I see it primarily on hard to find bottles and at both of their stores. The cellar in Norman is owned by his wife.. I have seen some bourbons and scotches marked up 200-500%. (BTAC, Orphan Barrels, etc) If I remember..it was either a George T Stag or a William Larue Weller that was marked up 500% at the Cellar. They are the only liquor stores I know of in the state that marks up to that degree on hard to get bottles. Freemans/Well/Bacchus/University/SpiritShop/Byrons keeps their prices reasonable on hard to find bottles.

It looks like campus corner may be back to the way it used to be: https://www.normantranscript.com/state-updating-alcohol-laws-again-public-events-ou-game-days/article_70a8fa32-b78f-11e9-8f29-f7a8a3670f36.html

https://www.news9.com/story/40905203/lawsuit-ruling-could-change-oklahoma-liquor-laws-again

Hopefully the law stands.

Whelp.... Oh well.

https://www.news9.com/story/40905203/lawsuit-ruling-could-change-oklahoma-liquor-laws-again

''The lawsuit is over a new state law which requires the top 25 alcohol brands to be sold in any liquor store that wants to sell them instead of allowing local distributors to pick and choose where to sell which brands.

The law was an attempt to correct some of the fallout changes made 3 years ago, which forced many small liquor stores to close because they were unable to sell the most popular brands.''

Wow... I don't know how they could have botched this story any worse. The law had nothing to do with what liquor stores can sale... The law was about wholesalers having exclusive control over products and would've allowed other wholesalers to sell the top 25 brands...

With that in mind, SB 608 which passed by wide margins in the state legislature and would have allowed other wholesalers to sell the top 25 brands and return some competition in the wholesale marketplace was ruled unconstitutional today. An appeal is expected.

Thank you for providing more insight on this issue. I was confused with some details.

Liquor bicker: Senate sends SB 608 to Gov. Kevin Stitt: https://nondoc.com/2019/05/06/liquor-bicker-senate-sends-sb-608-to-gov-kevin-stitt/

Liquor bicker: Senate sends SB 608 to Gov. Kevin Stitt: https://nondoc.com/2019/05/06/liquor-bicker-senate-sends-sb-608-to-gov-kevin-stitt/

https://oklahoman.com/article/5638453/judge-liquor-distribution-legislation-unconstitutional

Hopefully the law stands.

I agree. I want as much competition in the making, wholesaling, and retailing of liquor as there can be. Seems like with the current set up, the wholesaling is concentrated in just two companies.

Also, this was overlooked by nearly all voters. We just wanted more and better access to beers and wine, not necessarily any wholesale changes.

I agree. I want as much competition in the making, wholesaling, and retailing of liquor as there can be. Seems like with the current set up, the wholesaling is concentrated in just two companies.

Also, this was overlooked by nearly all voters. We just wanted more and better access to beers and wine, not necessarily any wholesale changes.

So maybe voters didn't fully know what we voted for? Our legislators aren't completely stupid and insulting?

So maybe voters didn't fully know what we voted for? Our legislators aren't completely stupid and insulting?

In general we did. But the liquor modernization had a lot of moving pieces, some of the seemingly small and obscure but ones that ultimately catered to the big wholesalers giving them more of a monopoly.

In general we did. But the liquor modernization had a lot of moving pieces, some of the seemingly small and obscure but ones that ultimately catered to the big wholesalers giving them more of a monopoly.

In general is not 100% I didn't hear anything about this when we voted on it. Because the people in favor knew it might cause some hesitance (not enough to kill it, but still).

In general we did. But the liquor modernization had a lot of moving pieces, some of the seemingly small and obscure but ones that ultimately catered to the big wholesalers giving them more of a monopoly.

i think it was more that the Wholesalers didn't act on good faith and took to exploiting the loop holes and gaps they found in the new laws, to give them more of a monopoly

I disagree wholeheartedly with SB 608. It was discussed many times in the news that the wholesale system will change to a franchise-based system before the 2016 election that passed SQ 792. It was also discussed at great length in many FAQ releases before the new laws went into effect in 2018, and nearly two full years were given so that the industry can prepare for these changes. Not sure why it is now all of the sudden a surprise.

People are quick to forget that the old wholesale system where manufacturers were required to sell to ALL wholesalers without franchise agreements that include quality controls is exactly why the big three domestic breweries pulled their products out of Oklahoma in 1976. In fact, the requirement to sell to all wholesale distributors and on a same price basis is not competition at all. It began with a lawsuit from a distributor in Ardmore against Adolph Coors who declined the distributors order because they already had a distributor in the same territory. The judge ruled that Coors was required to sell to the plaintiff based on Oklahoma's distribution laws. Instead, Coors opted to pull their products out of Oklahoma. Anheuser-Busch and Miller did the same shortly after since each company had quality controls that Oklahoma wholesalers were not required to follow.

Almost EVERY state in the country allows wholesale distributors to franchise with manufacturers, and don't experience issues with monopolies or duopolies or whatever *opolies that were complained about when SB 608 was debated on the floor. Texas distributors franchise... don't see them having any problems. Kansas distributors franchise... heck every neighboring state does it. So why is it Oklahoma is having such a difficult time adjusting? First, some distributors simply don't like the changes... they liked the old system the way it was because there was no need for competition. Second, yes... I agree... two distributors control 80% of the market... for now. Others will gain market share as time goes on. New wholesale distributors have opened in Oklahoma since 2018 and they aren't complaining about loss of sales.

The wholesale aspect was discussed frequently before the vote and was one of the positives often mentioned.

In general we did. But the liquor modernization had a lot of moving pieces, some of the seemingly small and obscure but ones that ultimately catered to the big wholesalers giving them more of a monopoly.

Literally everyone involved in the business said hey here’s exactly what’s going to happen. They’ll go 3 tier and it’s going to put a lot of local businesses out to pasture. I remember specifically saying Oklahoma’s system had an accidental stroke of brilliance in keeping a lot of the sales local throughout the supply chain.

Oh well. At least you guys can buy your $4 bottle of chemicals they call wine at wal mart.

I disagree wholeheartedly with SB 608. It was discussed many times in the news that the wholesale system will change to a franchise-based system before the 2016 election that passed SQ 792. It was also discussed at great length in many FAQ releases before the new laws went into effect in 2018, and nearly two full years were given so that the industry can prepare for these changes. Not sure why it is now all of the sudden a surprise.

People are quick to forget that the old wholesale system where manufacturers were required to sell to ALL wholesalers without franchise agreements that include quality controls is exactly why the big three domestic breweries pulled their products out of Oklahoma in 1976. In fact, the requirement to sell to all wholesale distributors and on a same price basis is not competition at all. It began with a lawsuit from a distributor in Ardmore against Adolph Coors who declined the distributors order because they already had a distributor in the same territory. The judge ruled that Coors was required to sell to the plaintiff based on Oklahoma's distribution laws. Instead, Coors opted to pull their products out of Oklahoma. Anheuser-Busch and Miller did the same shortly after since each company had quality controls that Oklahoma wholesalers were not required to follow.

Almost EVERY state in the country allows wholesale distributors to franchise with manufacturers, and don't experience issues with monopolies or duopolies or whatever *opolies that were complained about when SB 608 was debated on the floor. Texas distributors franchise... don't see them having any problems. Kansas distributors franchise... heck every neighboring state does it. So why is it Oklahoma is having such a difficult time adjusting? First, some distributors simply don't like the changes... they liked the old system the way it was because there was no need for competition. Second, yes... I agree... two distributors control 80% of the market... for now. Others will gain market share as time goes on. New wholesale distributors have opened in Oklahoma since 2018 and they aren't complaining about loss of sales.

Thats quite a dissertation you wrote, so instead of responding to all of it, I’ve got just a couple of questions...

The public very much wanted wine and strong beer in grocery stores and that’s what the vote was about. It was the perfect opportunity to sneak the distribution part through without the public noticing...

Show me where the public was aware that they were voting on two national company’s splitting up all major spirit and wine brands and giving them monopolies over those brands... It’s ridiculous to think it would have ever passed based on its own merits... what have the effects on spirits to the consumer been?

How is giving a monopoly on popular liquor brands good for anyone but the one with the monopoly? What’s happened to spirit prices and availability since the new laws went in to effect...

You’re obviously very knowledgeable on the subject so explain to everyone how the new laws benefited them and were good for consumers and liquor stores in any way...

I look forward to ripping your answers to shreads so give it your best shot...

Seems they both ponied up $$$ to Stephanie Bice (who's now trying to go to D.C.). You think those donations might have been made to get that favorable language in the bill? Why else would they be giving her money?

Then both wholesalers went out and sold huge stakes in their businesses to two of the largest distributors in the US.

Shouldn't be too difficult to see what happened here.... it's called a ruse.

Tomorrow I can finally go into the liquor store with the kid, it'll be nice to not have to take him home and wait for the wife to get home before I can go.

Tomorrow I can finally go into the liquor store with the kid, it'll be nice to not have to take him home and wait for the wife to get home before I can go.

This was one of those no brainer changes. I know back when we had a shop and the retail association was just getting going, accompanied minors and holiday sales were two of the main talking points we cared about (that and in store tastings - although not as important).

Sorry if I missed it but does OKC or OK county have Sunday liquor sales?

Tulsa will be voting on it in March(too lazy to look up the article rn but it’s from Tulsa world).

Sorry if I missed it but does OKC or OK county have Sunday liquor sales?

Tulsa will be voting on it in March(too lazy to look up the article rn but it’s from Tulsa world).

Not yet and it hasn’t been set for a vote... Cleveland county either

^^^ Thank you for the update. Just a coupe days ago I was complaining about CA laws! I was told by the liquor store owner next year a limited trial will be had to let stores sell liquor until 4am and possible 24 hour sales after a 4-5 year run. Not sure how true that is and I haven’t looked into it. One thing I love about Nevada is 24 hour liquor sales. Speaking about backwards liquor laws I didn’t realize how restrictive Colorado is.

I hope Oklahoma goes 24 hours and hard liquor anywhere similar to Nevada. Wonder when that happens LOL

^^^ Thank you for the update. Just a coupe days ago I was complaining about CA laws! I was told by the liquor store owner next year a limited trial will be had to let stores sell liquor until 4am and possible 24 hour sales after a 4-5 year run. Not sure how true that is and I haven’t looked into it. One thing I love about Nevada is 24 hour liquor sales. Speaking about backwards liquor laws I didn’t realize how restrictive Colorado is.

I hope Oklahoma goes 24 hours and hard liquor anywhere similar to Nevada. Wonder when that happens LOL

Honestly, liquor store owners and their employees would rather not have to work on Sundays as long as no one else is open and they can get away with it but the way the new laws are written, it’s county option and just a matter of time for most counties...

As far as 24 hrs? I would agree with you in most cases but In reality, alcohol is a very strong drug and the demons tend to come out at night...

Chances of something bad happening selling to someone in the wee hours of the morning are a lot different in Oklahoma City than they are in Las Vegas

Lol if you’re really clamoring for 4am liquor runs I think you have other issues

^^^ probably but what difference does that make to you? With your logic you could say that about any time of the day and tell someone they should have planned ahead.

Apart from any personal issues I am dealing with which is none of your concern, I am also for personal liberties and I don’t agree with the government telling you what times of day you can or can’t buy something.

What other states allows liquor stores to be open all the time?

List of alcohol laws of the United States (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_alcohol_laws_of_the_United_States)

Some are pretty loose.

^^^ Thank you for the update. Just a coupe days ago I was complaining about CA laws! I was told by the liquor store owner next year a limited trial will be had to let stores sell liquor until 4am and possible 24 hour sales after a 4-5 year run. Not sure how true that is and I haven’t looked into it. One thing I love about Nevada is 24 hour liquor sales. Speaking about backwards liquor laws I didn’t realize how restrictive Colorado is.

I hope Oklahoma goes 24 hours and hard liquor anywhere similar to Nevada. Wonder when that happens LOL

I thought Colorado modernized around the time Oklahoma did? Last time I was there I bought some beer at a gas station and it was full strength. They used to have laws that were almost identical to Oklahoma's old laws except they never had the cold beer ban at liquor stores and they never had the 9PM closing time. Looks like Utah also finally ditched 3.2 beer as of November 1st and they were the last state to still have it.

^^^ probably but what difference does that make to you? With your logic you could say that about any time of the day and tell someone they should have planned ahead.

Apart from any personal issues I am dealing with which is none of your concern, I am also for personal liberties and I don’t agree with the government telling you what times of day you can or can’t buy something.Well for one I drive. I can easily see the possibility increasing of someone that just has to buy a bottle in the wee hours of the morning could be doing so because they’re just really ticked off at someone or something and they’re going to suck down a pint or ? in the parking lot and then drive home. I’m not big on government regulation either but sometimes they have relatively good points.

I thought Colorado modernized around the time Oklahoma did? Last time I was there I bought some beer at a gas station and it was full strength. They used to have laws that were almost identical to Oklahoma's old laws except they never had the cold beer ban at liquor stores and they never had the 9PM closing time. Looks like Utah also finally ditched 3.2 beer as of November 1st and they were the last state to still have it.

I’ve been exploring Colorado a lot lately and they seem to have their stores closed around 9pm with some exceptions. Maybe I’m not going to the right places.

Well for one I drive. I can easily see the possibility increasing of someone that just has to buy a bottle in the wee hours of the morning could be doing so because they’re just really ticked off at someone or something and they’re going to suck down a pint or ? in the parking lot and then drive home. I’m not big on government regulation either but sometimes they have relatively good points.So because of a few bad apples we should punish everyone else? I drive too and do you have proof DUIs will go up? You and the other poster are making a lot of assumptions.

^^^ probably but what difference does that make to you? With your logic you could say that about any time of the day and tell someone they should have planned ahead.

Apart from any personal issues I am dealing with which is none of your concern, I am also for personal liberties and I don’t agree with the government telling you what times of day you can or can’t buy something.

I 100% agree with the government regulating a product that impairs judgement, and harms others through poor decisions.

So even if liquor stores were allowed to be open 24 hours, I don't see the majority of them switching to that. It would likely be the Byron's and Pancho's out there that go to 24 hours. Most of the neighborhood liquor stores especially in the suburban and rural towns will probably limit their hours. I know I've talked to quite a few stores about it. both more recently, and back when we had a shop. Staying open extra late most of the time isn't worth it. The last hour of the store sees a little rush as people try to get in, but overall it gets pretty quiet most nights. Extending it an hour makes sense for those shops on certain nights, but going all the way to midnight, or later, is just wasted labor and more chances for robberies (both times we got robbed, it was after dark). When you get into the very rural areas, there's no justification or sense for pretty much any store to open 24 hours. Now, on New Years Eve we would have made a killing being open until midnight, so that's one of those times we'd have stayed opened if we could. So, people concerned about some massive inflow of late night liquor are probably over reacting, since it won't be as common.

One downside, which is more just an adjustment thing than anything... right now someone can head to pretty much any liquor store, and know when they'll open, and when they'll close. No need to check their hours ahead of time. If a switch like this happens, people will have to get into the habit of looking up WHICH liquor stores are open when, so there will be some learning curves. But nothing drastic.

Seems like there would be several hole in the wall liquor stores in more densely populated places that would be 24 hours.

Seems like there would be several hole in the wall liquor stores in more densely populated places that would be 24 hours.

I could see having some, but again, you have to pay an employee hourly.. and probably security, so you're looking at labor costs of at least $20-30 an hour, plus other operating costs. How many of those hours would have no customers? So it's not going to be as common as folks think. OKC and Tulsa aren't really 24 hour towns yet, and something as specialized as liquor makes it even less common. Most liquor stores operate with very slim profits as it is so they'd definitely have to make money overnight to justify it.

You're more likely to see 24 hour availability become common if they allow gas stations to sell full liquor one day.

Well for one I drive. I can easily see the possibility increasing of someone that just has to buy a bottle in the wee hours of the morning could be doing so because they’re just really ticked off at someone or something and they’re going to suck down a pint or ? in the parking lot and then drive home. I’m not big on government regulation either but sometimes they have relatively good points.

There are legitimate reasons people might want to buy liquor at 4 AM - somebody just getting off work and wanting to pick up a bottle of vodka on the way home (just like regular people that get off work at 5 PM do), somebody having an all-night party and running out of liquor, there's a whole bunch of things that happen when most of us are asleep. But I agree that they'd be pretty infrequent purchases and the cost of staying open 24 hours would probably far outweigh the sales.

Oklahoma is not very backwards on this lack of 24 hour liquor sales. There is only 1 (maybe 2) states with 24 hour sales. Heck, the number of states with sales past 2am is maybe 1 or 2 hands, tops.

I do think Oklahoma should go to Sunday liquor store sales, though. Leaving it up to the county is stupid.

There are legitimate reasons people might want to buy liquor at 4 AM - somebody just getting off work and wanting to pick up a bottle of vodka on the way home (just like regular people that get off work at 5 PM do), somebody having an all-night party and running out of liquor,.

Agreed. Plus, you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning.

Agreed. Plus, you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning.

Life is about having goals and knowing how to hit them.

Agreed. Plus, you can't drink all day if you don't start in the morning.

Early bird gets the worm...

Early bird gets the worm...

That's ok, I don't drink anymore....


but I don't drink any less.

Thank you...I'll be here all week

I’ve been exploring Colorado a lot lately and they seem to have their stores closed around 9pm with some exceptions. Maybe I’m not going to the right places.

My local liquor store in Colorado Springs closes at 11. 12 on fridays and saturdays.

The new iaw is that liquor stores can stay open until midnight 6 day a week now but I don’t think that hardly of them do... my favorite store stays open until 10pm during the week and is open until midnight on Friday and Saturday... The later it gets, the later you get someone that has had too much to drink thinking they need more... it’s a felony for a liquor store to sell to someone that is intoxicated... there is very little business in the middle of the night and nothing but bad risk...

Looks like OK and Cleveland counties will soon be voting on Sunday sales as well:

https://kfor.com/2019/12/05/oklahoma-county-commissioners-to-discuss-sunday-liquor-store-sales/

One thing I want to say is that since liquor law modernization, Oklahoma City has developed a top-notch craft beer scene and culture that holds up very well against much larger cities. I think this is something the city should market heavier. In the national psyche, when people think craft beer culture they think of places like Boulder CO or Portland OR. Why not OKC? It's up there, in my opinion.

Oklahoma County residents will vote on March 3rd for liquor stores being open on Sundays:

https://kfor.com/2019/12/18/oklahoma-county-voters-to-decide-on-sunday-liquor-store-sales-following-commissioners-vote/

https://kfor.com/2020/01/22/oklahoma-supreme-court-rules-liquor-law-unconstitutional/

Looks like Oklahoma County and pretty much every county that is voting for Sunday sales has their measures passing with flying colors.

Looks like Oklahoma County and pretty much every county that is voting for Sunday sales has their measures passing with flying colors.

Yeah, this was pretty predictable. In the larger more urban counties it would have been shocking for this not to pass. I figure the only places it will have troubles will be some of the smaller counties that remained dry until fairly recently.

Will be interesting to see how many of the stores elect to stay open on Sunday.

For many of the small places (and there are still tons) that is the only day off for the owners.

Are there any liquor laws needing changed to allow a place like Spec's to open here? Not sure what is required for that, but they would probably kill it here!

Will be interesting to see how many of the stores elect to stay open on Sunday.

For many of the small places (and there are still tons) that is the only day off for the owners.

They won’t know until they measure sales over several Sundays.

Will be interesting to see how many of the stores elect to stay open on Sunday.

For many of the small places (and there are still tons) that is the only day off for the owners.

When we still had our shop, that was the only downside for us with allowing sales on Sundays and holidays. We knew we'd lose the few days we could really relax.

I have talked to a couple of shop owners I know, and they don't plan on opening on Sundays, at least not regularly, at this time. They're both in smaller neighborhood communities and they don't see the late night business that some shops do, and don't expect the revenue on Sundays to justify the expense and the extra work but will likely open on Sundays during holiday weekends and such.