The distribution channels are in a bit of chaos over the Oct. 1 date. O Bar had no Stella a couple of nights ago and said it was related to distributor issues in connection with new law coming online.

Poor Utah. Is the state just not going to sell beer?

Poor Utah. Is the state just not going to sell beer?

in grocery stores... probably...

in grocery stores... probably...

If it is being made.

If it is being made.

sorry. realize my last message wasn't clear... grocery stores probably will stop selling beer in Utah. There have been some conversations about high point beer and what it would take to get there, but they are years away from it. so liquor stores will still be selling beer, but grocery stores, gas stations, and perhaps even some restaurants will probably have to stop selling as low point beer will not be produced, at least by the major producers.

I was wondering about Utah as they are the only other state that is a large consumer of 3.2 beer. Colorado, Kansas, and Minnesota still have 3.2 beer but its marketshare is negligible in those states so they won't be impacted as heavily.

UTAH


"Starting probably early to mid 2018, you're going to see many of the products in the grocery and convenience stores today will begin to disappear," Jim Olsen with the Utah Beer Wholesalers Association said.

3.2 beer phase out: Anheuser-Busch warns they could go from 20 brands to 12 in some states: https://fox6now.com/2017/12/25/3-2-beer-phase-out-anheuser-busch-warns-they-could-go-from-20-brands-to-12-in-some-states/

Oklahoma is among the last to line up with the rest of the states; we should look at established laws in other states to govern alcoholic beverages to strengthen our own laws.

Been a long proponent of allowing clubs, taverns & bars to remain open after 2 a.m., and sell non alcoholic beverages to patrons once the call is made to clear all alcoholic beverages from the premises to allow patrons to sober up from potential buzz affects of drinking. Logic: You don't put a bunch of buzz drivers on the roads between 2 & 2:30 am following a night out.

I was wondering about Utah as they are the only other state that is a large consumer of 3.2 beer. Colorado, Kansas, and Minnesota still have 3.2 beer but its marketshare is negligible in those states so they won't be impacted as heavily.

However, it should be a huge boon for Utah's craft beer scene. With lessened competition from the bigs, local breweries could easily move into producing low-point beers (or expand existing production) to fill the demand until their state laws change. While it would suck for anyone wanting a Budweiser or Miller Lite, there's a good chance this will be a net benefit for the local beer scene there.

I don't think the breweries are making any more at this point and that the stores are basically closing out all low point.
They are still making it, our grocery and convenience stores still have it here in Colorado. I don't think Sam's or Costco ever had it here since they have the adjacent liquor store leases. They are probably making less aren't distributing it to Oklahoma anymore.

It's still around but it seems all that inventory is being cleared out in advance of Oct. 1.

CVS is running low on 3.2% beer. The CVS I went to now has a beer cave. I wonder if there will be a big run for beer at liquor stores during the last weekend of September.

Earlier this week at a local restaurant and bar that has a big beer selection, they didn't have about half the high-point beers on their list.

Out of Coop F5 (of all things) and Lagunitas offerings. Said they could not get the product due to distributors being overwhelmed with demand.

I'm sure we are going to see plenty of that sort of thing in the short term.

^^^^^^^^
I had coffee with a friend who is a wine rep on Weds, and she said that there definitely is a ton of chaos in the industry right now, but expects it to mostly sort out within the next 30-60.

Went to a restaurant last night that generally has quite a few great beers on tap and more than half of the handles were covered by styrofoam drinking cups.

The Louie's at 178th and Western replaced COOP F5 with PBR. Not sure why because I have three kegs in my home now, so it's not a shortage. I think October 1st has caused a lot of delivery problems.
C. T.

The Louie's at 178th and Western replaced COOP F5 with PBR. Not sure why because I have three kegs in my home now, so it's not a shortage. I think October 1st has caused a lot of delivery problems.
C. T.

distributors are refusing to carry some local breweries if that brewery is not going to be using this to distribute come october 1st. they keep telling their customers that there is a shortage... but it's because they are refusing to distribute it

Everyplace I've been in the last couple of weeks is out of tons of beers.

All cite the change in distributors... Where they used to work with one, now they have to deal with several under the new structure.

^^^^^^^
Yep. Same experience here, and same explanation. Which was also confirmed to me by friend who works for a wine broker.

I independently heard the same from my brother over the weekend. He's not in the industry, is just a guy who has been asking various liquor store people about how the changes have been affecting business.

This isn't a new thing. It's been an issue since at least May. Sauced on Paseo has been out of Belhaven Scottish Ale (one of my favorites to get on tap) since about then.

^^^^^^
Was at Sauced last week for the first time in a very long time, and half of the tap handles were 86ed. They also had the same explanation. It's one of the places I was referencing several posts up.

So, will everything return to normal once the dust settles or will places never have some of these beers they used to carry? Also, I am not quite understanding what the law changes did to affect distributors, could someone explain a little bit of what happened, please?

So, will everything return to normal once the dust settles or will places never have some of these beers they used to carry? Also, I am not quite understanding what the law changes did to affect distributors, could someone explain a little bit of what happened, please?

My understanding is that under the old law, companies producing alcoholic beverages for sale within the state of Oklahoma had to sell their beverages to any distributor that wanted to carry them, on equal footing. Under the new law, producers of such beverages are allowed to restrict who may distribute their beverages to as few as one single distributor for the entire state. As I understand it, this was done to appease brewers like Anheuser-Busch, because they solely handled distribution for their own 3.2% beers and would vigorously oppose losing this distribution exclusivity under the new law.

So, will everything return to normal once the dust settles or will places never have some of these beers they used to carry? Also, I am not quite understanding what the law changes did to affect distributors, could someone explain a little bit of what happened, please?

Something in the bill that a lot of people didn’t realize when they were voting on wine in grocery stores and single strength beer was for wholesalers to have exclusivity on products they carry. Under the old law you had a handfull of wholesalers and they all carried everything and they were competitive on price, service etc.... Under the new law there is only one wholesaler to buy each product from and if they’re out of stock, then there is nowhere else for a retailer to buy it... As October 1 appoaches, each wholesaler has stopped carrying products that won’t be theirs causing lots of outages and competition has basically gone away among the largest wholesalers...the wholesale markup on liquor has gone from 8% to 18% and they’re going from 5 day a week deliveries to one or two days causing outages as well...

My understanding is that under the old law, companies producing alcoholic beverages for sale within the state of Oklahoma had to sell their beverages to any distributor that wanted to carry them, on equal footing. Under the new law, producers of such beverages are allowed to restrict who may distribute their beverages to as few as one single distributor for the entire state. As I understand it, this was done to appease brewers like Anheuser-Busch, because they solely handled distribution for their own 3.2% beers and would vigorously oppose losing this distribution exclusivity under the new law.

This is mostly true except A-B was actually opposed to this change because they dominated shelf space in grocery stores as it was and this just brings in much more competition for shelf space... This was driven by the wholesalers being able to control the markup on their products and no longer having to compete...and for the largest wholesalers to be able to squeeze out the smaller ones...

Double post

So... brewers can only get their products to store via a wholesaler? It seems like we get to buy liquor in more places now but the selection could suffer and prices will inflate?

So... brewers can only get their products to store via a wholesaler? It seems like we get to buy liquor in more places now but the selection could suffer and prices will inflate?

Remember that particularly with chains, they have a lot of power because they control what hits their shelves. They can also force down the price they pay based on volume. Walmart already does this with food and other merchandise.

At least with beer, I'm not sure prices will be higher in the longer term. But even if that proves to be the case, it's worth it to me. I hate all those crappy liquor stores and will be overjoyed to avoid them altogether, as I really only care about beer and wine.

Remember that particularly with chains, they have a lot of power because they control what hits their shelves. They can also force down the price they pay based on volume. Walmart already does this with food and other merchandise.

At least with beer, I'm not sure prices will be higher in the longer term. But even if that proves to be the case, it's worth it to me. I hate all those crappy liquor stores and will be overjoyed to avoid them altogether, as I really only care about beer and wine.

Actually this isn’t true... liquor retailers didn’t get much in the new laws but one of the things they did get was a level playing field... The wholesale price on wine, liquor and beer is exactly the same whether they buy one case or a thousand cases... there are no quantity discounts... and fortunately many people prefer to do business with a local merchant as opposed to seeing Walmart become the largest wine and beer retailer in the state...

So... brewers can only get their products to store via a wholesaler?

well... not entirely... a brewer can choose to self distribute in certain areas (i believe they are able to choose to do this county by county, but might be wrong on that). just the cost at this point means that probably none of the local breweries are going to immediately... but i have heard that two of them do have the idea of self distribution in their long term plans

Actually this isn’t true... liquor retailers didn’t get much in the new laws but one of the things they did get was a level playing field... The wholesale price on wine, liquor and beer is exactly the same whether they buy one case or a thousand cases... there are no quantity discounts... and fortunately many people prefer to do business with a local merchant as opposed to seeing Walmart become the largest wine and beer retailer in the state...

Thanks for the clarification.

But the retail price is not set by wholesalers, correct? In other words, the retailer can set a lower price if they want to live with a smaller margin, such as having more volume and/or less overhead.


Regardless, I'm not convinced beer and wine prices will go up in any significant way. And even if they do, I still think it's a great trade-off.

Thanks for the clarification.

But the retail price is not set by wholesalers, correct? In other words, the retailer can set a lower price if they want to live with a smaller margin, such as having more volume and/or less overhead.


Regardless, I'm not convinced beer and wine prices will go up in any significant way. And even if they do, I still think it's a great trade-off.

Yes, all of that is true... a lot of wine prices will come down especially on national brands, beer prices will stay about the same and liquor prices have already gone up and will go up further as liquor retailers are forced to compensate for the lower margins and lower sales on wine...

Advertised prices of wine at Homeland are definitely less than anything we can get now.

Advertised prices of wine at Homeland are definitely less than anything we can get now.

The prices at the Homeland on 18th/Classen were slightly higher than at Modern on 30th/Penn. Haven't been to Modern since we've been to Homeland, though (which was last week), so that might've changed. It was negligible, though - Black Box 500ml Tetra Paks were $4.95 at Homeland and $4.76 at Modern, and I think the other 750ml bottles I glanced at were about a dollar more, it seemed.

The prices at the Homeland on 18th/Classen were slightly higher than at Modern on 30th/Penn. Haven't been to Modern since we've been to Homeland, though (which was last week), so that might've changed. It was negligible, though - Black Box 500ml Tetra Paks were $4.95 at Homeland and $4.76 at Modern, and I think the other 750ml bottles I glanced at were about a dollar more, it seemed.

Interesting, I was at the one on May. I'll check again.

With a full page newspaper ad, Food Pyramid, Stillwater, is promoting what it has in store starting Oct. 1. Over 300 wines, over 240 craft beers, create your own 6 pack with Mix Six. Lowest prices in town. (What? Even lower than Wal-Mart?)

Food Pyramid is about sold out on 3.2% beer.

With a full page newspaper ad, Food Pyramid, Stillwater, is promoting what it has in store starting Oct. 1. Over 300 wines, over 240 craft beers, create your own 6 pack with Mix Six. Lowest prices in town. (What? Even lower than Wal-Mart?)

Food Pyramid is about sold out on 3.2% beer.

I am hoping we get more create your own six-pack options in the OKC/Norman area under the new laws. Currently, the best I've found is down at The Cellar in Norman, but it's rather expensive. In DFW, there are a bunch of places where you can build your own for $10.99 or so, would love to see something similar up here.

I am hoping we get more create your own six-pack options in the OKC/Norman area under the new laws. Currently, the best I've found is down at The Cellar in Norman, but it's rather expensive. In DFW, there are a bunch of places where you can build your own for $10.99 or so, would love to see something similar up here.

The places I've seen that have build-your-own-6-pack just charge whatever each beer costs individually (Grand Cru and Freeman's). They have shelves full of singles, and you can pick out any number you want, from 1 to 100, doesn't have to be limited to multiples of 6. Been that way for years.

The places I've seen that have build-your-own-6-pack just charge whatever each beer costs individually (Grand Cru and Freeman's). They have shelves full of singles, and you can pick out any number you want, from 1 to 100, doesn't have to be limited to multiples of 6. Been that way for years.
I haven’t been in there for awhile but Sean’s on NW Expressway and Rockwell did this. I would assume they still do.

My wife likes the little bottles of White Zinfandel. I know, it’s not considered real wine by connoisseurs but she likes it. She was happy to see Homeland has her two favorite brands ready for Oct 1.

. Currently, the best I've found is down at The Cellar in Norman, but it's rather expensive. . The Cellar and their sister store Grand Cru (husband and wife) are ridiculously expensive. 15 -20% higher on a lot of stuff and they jack up the price of highly allocable bottles 100-400%. Any store in Norman will be cheaper as well as The Well on Memorial Road. Quicker Liquor on SW89th and May will let you make your own 6 pack.

Was listening to people complain yesterday that they have been to 6 gas stations and haven’t been able to find any beer anywhere. I would have thought at some point they would just go to a liquor store...

Was listening to people complain yesterday that they have been to 6 gas stations and haven’t been able to find any beer anywhere. I would have thought at some point they would just go to a liquor store...

But they don't have 3.2 beer and some of us would like to have that. I have a kegerator with two 1/6th barrels of COOP F-5 but I still enjoy 3.2 cans occasionally. I realize it is history but I wish I had stocked up on it.
C. T.

My dad has been stocking up on 3.2 because he doesn't want to drink beer with "double the alcohol". I've tried to explain that the difference in domestics is relatively negligible (~1%), but it seems like a lot of people still don't realize the difference.

Throw an ice cube or two in your can and you’re pretty much there.

Thanks all for the recommendations on other places that have a build your own six pack.

My dad has been stocking up on 3.2 because he doesn't want to drink beer with "double the alcohol". I've tried to explain that the difference in domestics is relatively negligible (~1%), but it seems like a lot of people still don't realize the difference.

Or drink half as much as before, if still not convinced. For me, I can't tell any distinct difference. I'm not surprised.

The places I've seen that have build-your-own-6-pack just charge whatever each beer costs individually (Grand Cru and Freeman's). They have shelves full of singles, and you can pick out any number you want, from 1 to 100, doesn't have to be limited to multiples of 6. Been that way for years.

In Portland it was acceptable to take apart whatever you wanted in the beer aisle. For example, if you wanted just 1 F5, you could grab a 6-pack and just break one off. Or find a 6-pack that was already missing a few and take what was left.

Man, I didn't realize how spoiled I was with the Cellar in Norman when I was going to OU and just turned 21, probably x5 the beer selection of Byron's. I was down in Norman for the OU game and had to stop in just for old times sake- and of course they had the beer out-of-state buddy had just been looking for in Byron's the weekend before.

I guess I don't understand the affinity for 3.2 beer. Granted, I was living elsewhere when I started drinking and after moving back to Oklahoma I could never get used to 3.2 beer. I might feel differently if I started drinking on 3.2 and drank only that for decades. For me, it's the watered down taste that I mostly dislike as I'm aware that the alcohol content isn't as different as most people think. I am highly looking forward to finally having real beer and wine in the grocery store, a luxury that I believe in a few years Okie drinkers will wonder how they made it so long without.

I guess I don't understand the affinity for 3.2 beer. Granted, I was living elsewhere when I started drinking and after moving back to Oklahoma I could never get used to 3.2 beer. I might feel differently if I started drinking on 3.2 and drank only that for decades. For me, it's the watered down taste that I mostly dislike as I'm aware that the alcohol content isn't as different as most people think. I am highly looking forward to finally having real beer and wine in the grocery store, a luxury that I believe in a few years Okie drinkers will wonder how they made it so long without.

To be honest bchris, I think people are just used to it, Oklahoma as a whole normally drinks domestic beer so they are used to that. It will take time, but they will get used to the "higher point" beer, the difference is very minimal. If you drank for flavor, you will be fine with high point; Bud, Coors, Miller, etc. I was the same way until I started into craft beer, at that point drinking anything from the grocery store was a bad time.

To be honest bchris, I think people are just used to it, Oklahoma as a whole normally drinks domestic beer so they are used to that. It will take time, but they will get used to the "higher point" beer, the difference is very minimal. If you drank for flavor, you will be fine with high point; Bud, Coors, Miller, etc. I was the same way until I started into craft beer, at that point drinking anything from the grocery store was a bad time.

I doubt I would be as into craft beer as I am if not for Oklahoma's liquor laws. Before I moved back here I was mostly a full-flavored Bud/Coors drinker or would drink stuff like Sam Adams, Rolling Rock, Stella, etc. Occasionally I would drink imports but rarely locally-brewed craft brews.

If you are going to drink cheap, widely produced beer like Bud, Miller and Corona I bet almost no one will even notice the difference in taste or alcohol content.

Bud Light 4.2%
Bud Select 4.3%
Corona 4.6%
Miller Light 4.2%
Coors 5%
Sam Adams 4.9%

If you are going to drink cheap, widely produced beer like Bud, Miller and Corona I bet almost no one will even notice the difference in taste or alcohol content.

Bud Light 4.2%
Bud Select 4.3%
Corona 4.6%
Miller Light 4.2%
Coors 5%
Sam Adams 4.9%

I will add that the “3.2” bud light miller light etc. was 4.0% alcohol in comparison.

^
Which explains that when I've had those beers elsewhere, I never even noticed a difference when compared to those sold in OK.

I'm going to have to disagree on the taste. 3.2 beer does taste more watery than the full-strength version of the same product. To some people this might not matter but for me it always did, especially since I started drinking in a state where 3.2 beer is a distant memory and became accustomed to the taste of the full-strength stuff. I'm primarily looking forward to better tasting domestics, not higher ABV domestics.

I'm going to have to disagree on the taste. 3.2 beer does taste more watery than the full-strength version of the same product. To some people this might not matter but for me it always did, especially since I started drinking in a state where 3.2 beer is a distant memory and became accustomed to the taste of the full-strength stuff. I'm primarily looking forward to better tasting domestics, not higher ABV domestics.

So, there is a big taste difference in beers with an variance in ABV of 1% or less? Not buying it.

You either like that sort of beer or you don't.

While not near as big of a deal as the draconian liquor laws the state is finally ditching on October 1st, one thing I would like to see reformed is how last call is handled. I'd love to see some kind of provision for after hours clubs to serve alcohol. Arkansas has a limited number of establishments in the state's largest cities that can stay open and serve alcohol until 5AM. I'd also like to see existing ABC-3 licenses modified so that establishments simply had to stop serving alcohol at 2AM instead of having to have everyone kicked out by that time. 18-20 year-olds should also be able to get into ABC-3 establishments even if they are unable to drink.


So, there is a big taste difference in beers with an variance in ABV of 1% or less? Not buying it.

You either like that sort of beer or you don't.
I'm not sure I taste it to the extent I think bchris does, but I have noticed a difference in taste of the domestics at 3.2 versus the full-strength stuff - particularly Budweiser products.

I'd argue that is an imagined taste difference. It's hard to believe less than 1% difference in ABV would be noticeable.

So, there is a big taste difference in beers with an variance in ABV of 1% or less? Not buying it.


In my opinion that depends on how you look at it. That extra 1% ABV is approximately 25% more alcohol compared to the 4.0% ABV version. The taste difference comes from the fact the brewers water down their full-strength products to meet the 3.2% ABW (4.0% ABV) cap. It's not a huge difference for most beers at least but it is noticeable, especially if you are used to drinking the full-strength version. The higher ABV the full-strength product is, the more watery the 3.2 version tastes.

Anyways, the days of trying to defend 3.2 beer are nearing an end. It will be gone in six days.

I'd argue that is an imagined taste difference. It's hard to believe less than 1% difference in ABV would be noticeable.
Very well could be, but I definitely imagined it tasted just a little bit better. Though it was the difference of drinking it versus choosing something else.

Very well could be, but I definitely imagined it tasted just a little bit better. Though it was the difference of drinking it versus choosing something else.

To me, the full-strength version has a slightly stronger flavor. It's not a huge difference and a lot of people might not be able to fell the difference. I always have though and I know I'm not the only one. Maybe it's placebo. I'll buy a 3.2 pint of Bud sometime in the next few days and then I'll buy a full-strength pint once it becomes available and try a blind taste test.