Sunday liquor sales on the way?

http://m.newsok.com/article/5542582


The Oklahoma Senate gave its approval Tuesday to a bill that could eventually let counties open up liquor stores on Sunday.

Sunday liquor sales on the way?

http://m.newsok.com/article/5542582

Them letting it be voted on a county basis is smart. If this passes, I'd expect Oklahoma and Tulsa counties to easily vote it through. This would have poor chances in a statewide vote.

Them letting it be voted on a county basis is smart. If this passes, I'd expect Oklahoma and Tulsa counties to easily vote it through. This would have poor chances in a statewide vote.
Very smart. I hope it passes in Oklahoma county. I needed to buy some good beer this past Sunday and couldn't.

Very smart. I hope it passes in Oklahoma county. I needed to buy some good beer this past Sunday and couldn't.

I'm excited because we will be able to buy strong beer on Sundays at convenience and grocery stores whether this passes or not! But having liquor stores open on Sundays would be nice, too.

And in the meantime, some of the local breweries are open on Sundays and you can buy growlers from them. If only bars could sell/fill growlers too.

I'm excited because we will be able to buy strong beer on Sundays at convenience and grocery stores whether this passes or not! But having liquor stores open on Sundays would be nice, too.

Excellent reminder. I'm looking forward to not being in the Dark Ages anymore as far as liquor laws go.

Very smart. I hope it passes in Oklahoma county. I needed to buy some good beer this past Sunday and couldn't.

I have found that 3.2 Fat Tire isn't bad. It's certainly better than any of the other 3.2 options that are available and that includes COOP's attempts.

I am very interested in grocery delivery and there is one company starting to deliver next week and another coming soon. Neither of them will deliver 3.2 beer. Is there a state or local (Oklahoma County or Midwest City) ordinance against beer delivery? I think it might be because they will have drivers under the age of 21 but thought I would ask you good people what you know about the law.
Thanks,
C. T.

Might be requirements about having to verify age before the purchase is made. If a kid orders the beer, you already sold it to him before the delivery guy can ever card him?

Might be requirements about having to verify age before the purchase is made. If a kid orders the beer, you already sold it to him before the delivery guy can ever card him?

Good point, however the purchase isn't made until the customer pays for the product. At least that's the way I see it.
C. T.

Good point, however the purchase isn't made until the customer pays for the product. At least that's the way I see it.
C. T.

Most delivery places I know charge you before it ever leaves the store.

Most delivery places I know charge you before it ever leaves the store.

I pay cash, so that wouldn't be a problem. I think that they don't want the legal problems.
C. T.

I pay cash, so that wouldn't be a problem. I think that they don't want the legal problems.
C. T.

The fact you pay directly is the problem. The person doing the transaction must have a liquor license. When you order from a winery or a beer of the month club, your transaction is with the liquor license holder, and UPS or whomever is just delivering (although they still have to check ID).

The fact you pay directly is the problem. The person doing the transaction must have a liquor license. When you order from a winery or a beer of the month club, your transaction is with the liquor license holder, and UPS or whomever is just delivering (although they still have to check ID).

Jerry,
Good point, but we didn't discuss payment methods when I called them, they just said they will not deliver beer. Your point is probably one of many reasons they don't want to mess with it.
C. T,

Are we there , yet?
http://www.normantranscript.com/news/federal-judge-upholds-overhaul-of-oklahoma-liquor-laws/article_2f1c2a9a-89aa-11e7-903a-3b4703f1d5fc.html

http://www.news9.com/story/37569699/14-oklahoma-counties-could-lose-right-to-sell-beer

http://www.news9.com/story/37569699/14-oklahoma-counties-could-lose-right-to-sell-beer

I wonder if most of those counties will be voting for liquor by the drink on June 26? Even if they do, it doesn't mean they will approve.

3.2% beer and calling it a non-intoxicating beverage has gone on as the height of ridiculousness for far too long. It's surely done more harm than good. Just the other day, I read in the public records part of the paper that someone was charged with a misdemeanor for being in possession of a non-intoxicating beverage. I assume the person was under 21.

http://www.news9.com/story/37569699/14-oklahoma-counties-could-lose-right-to-sell-beer

I wondered when people would start waking up to the unintended consequences of the law change.

I wondered when people would start waking up to the unintended consequences of the law change.

Is that really a bad thing? Either get with the times or get out of the way. I predict sales tax losses in those counties will force them to consider allowing the stronger beer.

Could you expand on these unintended consequences? It sounds to me like these counties were given a choice and their choice was to do nothing in two years. If it's just lazy, then their laziness will be rewarded when the residents go one county over and do their business there. If they think sticking their heads in the sand will change the law, well then. That too will be rewarded, in the same way. 14 counties out of 77 is just over 18%. (18.181818 repeating) and that will lose any election. If you're implying that Ma and Pa Beer Barn will go out of business, and that's the unintended consequences, seems to me Ma and/or Pa could have gone to a couple meetings and said hey, get this up to a vote so I don't go out of business.

Sorry, I think catch22 pretty much nailed it right on the head. If these counties don't wake up before October, then they'll wake up soon after.

Is that really a bad thing? Either get with the times or get out of the way. I predict sales tax losses in those counties will force them to consider allowing the stronger beer.

I agree.

The entire reason it has taken 2 years for the law to go into effect is to give those counties time to change their laws to avoid having to go dry. If it wasn't for those 14 counties, SQ 792 would already be in effect.

Is that really a bad thing? Either get with the times or get out of the way. I predict sales tax losses in those counties will force them to consider allowing the stronger beer.


Could you expand on these unintended consequences? It sounds to me like these counties were given a choice and their choice was to do nothing in two years. If it's just lazy, then their laziness will be rewarded when the residents go one county over and do their business there. If they think sticking their heads in the sand will change the law, well then. That too will be rewarded, in the same way. 14 counties out of 77 is just over 18%. (18.181818 repeating) and that will lose any election. If you're implying that Ma and Pa Beer Barn will go out of business, and that's the unintended consequences, seems to me Ma and/or Pa could have gone to a couple meetings and said hey, get this up to a vote so I don't go out of business.

Sorry, I think catch22 pretty much nailed it right on the head. If these counties don't wake up before October, then they'll wake up soon after.

Sorry, I was apparently being unclear. Unintended consequences sounded more negative than I intended (ANOTHER unintended consequence... :) )

What I meant was that I had not seen much reporting on how the law's changes would affect places currently only in the 3.2 beer business. And by "places" I mean beer bars, restaurants currently only serving 3.2, plus convenience stores in dry-ish counties like the ones mentioned above. I just get the impression the whole thing is going to be a giant surprise to some people who think they are going to be able to keep doing what they are currently doing, when 3.2 is likely to disappear entirely (I haven't heard confirmation of this; only assuming).

I know the state of Utah almost immediately recognized that Oklahoma's changes would affect them - they also depend on 3.2 beer - but since Oklahoma far and away consumes the bulk of all 3.2 produced in the U.S., the assumption in Utah is that brewers will simply stop offering 3.2 altogether when Oklahoma's laws go into affect. THAT is an example of someone recognizing unintended consequences.

Having held an ABLE-issued MXB license, I can tell you that getting permission to sell strong beer (which is exactly the same license as wine and liquor) is a pretty expensive and involved process. In some cases someone who holds a county-issued 3.2 permit won't even qualify for MXB or retail equivalent (for instance a convenience store or restaurant owner with a past felony conviction, or even someone with a silent partner of more than 15% ownership who has a felony conviction).

Also as noted in the article there are counties where it is simply illegal to hold an MXB or the type of off-premises consumption liquor/wine/strong beer licensing that liquor stores must have. I'm simply not hearing much regarding the process to transition 3.2 establishments to strong beer and possibly liquor, and if too many people are sleeping I'm guessing implementation will be rocky, and lots of people are going to be really surprised on the day when the switch is flipped.

Those are the types of unintended consequences I'm talking about.

. . .any thoughts on Senate Bill 1394??
http://web-extract.constantcontact.com/v1/social_annotation?permalink_uri=2sG7ujq&image_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmlsvc01-prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fa0c6dbca001%2Fa827f099-9cf7-4d5f-bd0a-6988c8645236.jpg%3Fver%3D1487688018000

. 14 counties out of 77 is just over 18%. (18.181818 repeating) and that will lose any election. If you're implying that Ma and Pa Beer Barn will go out of business, and that's the unintended consequences, seems to me Ma and/or Pa could have gone to a couple meetings and said hey, get this up to a vote so I don't go out of business.

I wonder what % of the state population resides in those backwaters?

. . .any thoughts on Senate Bill 1394??
http://web-extract.constantcontact.com/v1/social_annotation?permalink_uri=2sG7ujq&image_url=https%3A%2F%2Fmlsvc01-prod.s3.amazonaws.com%2Fa0c6dbca001%2Fa827f099-9cf7-4d5f-bd0a-6988c8645236.jpg%3Fver%3D1487688018000
I've contacted my Senator to voice my disapproval. Totally self serving as it would impact me significantly more.

The other unintended consequences I'd like to see addressed is in the terms of street festivals and the such (like Heard on Hurd, Pride, and the like). 3.2 is legal to be sold on the street and consumed at those events. I'm hoping they will address this when ABLE works out regulations as this gets closer. I'd like to see Oklahoma adopt a festival zone law similar to Texas. This would allow open containers in areas such as Bricktown or such.

^^^^^^^
Yes, excellent point. Again, when I was talking unintended consequences I wasn't taking issue with the law or choosing sides. I'm personally mostly in favor of all aspects. I want 3.2 beer to go away. I want to be able to buy wine and strong beer in C-stores and grocery stores. I want cold beer in liquor stores.

I'm just saying I don't think all parties are fully prepared for the switchover and there are a lot of assumptions being made that the places that were selling 3.2 on Tuesday will suddenly be selling strong beer on Wednesday (or whenever...you get the point). That's not the way it's going to work and a number of people are going to wake up one morning on the wrong side of this, including stores, restaurants, bars, consumers and even entire counties, as evidenced above. I'm hopeful that everything becomes more clearly defined soon and that the places that can do so take measures to make sure they can continue to serve the customer.

A good example are strip clubs like the Red Dog, which currently operate under only a beer license. I don't know if they'll be required to get a liquor license, which could cause problems, or if a beer license will cover stronger beer. Obviously, many aren't concerned over the fate of such strip clubs, but they are business which will be affected.

^^^^^^^
Yes, excellent point. Again, when I was talking unintended consequences I wasn't taking issue with the law or choosing sides. I'm personally mostly in favor of all aspects. I want 3.2 beer to go away. I want to be able to buy wine and strong beer in C-stores and grocery stores. I want cold beer in liquor stores.

I'm just saying I don't think all parties are fully prepared for the switchover and there are a lot of assumptions being made that the places that were selling 3.2 on Tuesday will suddenly be selling strong beer on Wednesday (or whenever...you get the point). That's not the way it's going to work and a number of people are going to wake up one morning on the wrong side of this, including stores, restaurants, bars, consumers and even entire counties, as evidenced above. I'm hopeful that everything becomes more clearly defined soon and that the places that can do so take measures to make sure they can continue to serve the customer.

http://www.americancraftbeer.com/say-goodbye-3-2-beer/

A good example are strip clubs like the Red Dog, which currently operate under only a beer license. I don't know if they'll be required to get a liquor license, which could cause problems, or if a beer license will cover stronger beer. Obviously, many aren't concerned over the fate of such strip clubs, but they are business which will be affected.

Yes, another good example. Personally, I don't care that much what happens to Red Dog, but that is an example of an unintended consequence of the law change.

http://www.americancraftbeer.com/say-goodbye-3-2-beer/

Yep. I've read something since that article that mentions Utah's reaction that I referenced above. The article I read said that Oklahoma consumed some ridiculous percentage of all 3.2 beer made (seems like it was 70%+) despite other states also having it, and that once OK goes off of 3.2 the industry is likely to completely abandon the stuff.

I've contacted my Senator to voice my disapproval. Totally self serving as it would impact me significantly more.

+1. I'm surprised I haven't seen more on this. . .the way I read/understand it, this will eliminate the "liquor tax" in restaurants/bars and replace it with an added tax on all retail sales.

Yep. I've read something since that article that mentions Utah's reaction that I referenced above. The article I read said that Oklahoma consumed some ridiculous percentage of all 3.2 beer made (seems like it was 70%+) despite other states also having it, and that once OK goes off of 3.2 the industry is likely to completely abandon the stuff.No doubt that producers will stop brewing 3.2 beer. Especially since the difference in 3.2 and “stong” beer of the big two (Miller Coors and Anheuser-Busch) really isn’t that much of a deal.

No doubt that producers will stop brewing 3.2 beer. Especially since the difference in 3.2 and “stong” beer of the big two (Miller Coors and Anheuser-Busch) really isn’t that much of a deal.

I wonder if Coop will revise their 3.2 recipes to "strong" beer. I like their 3.2 selections.

I wonder if Coop will revise their 3.2 recipes to "strong" beer. I like their 3.2 selections.

They might expand, but I imagine the smaller brewers are going to pick up the slack if (IF, as by no means is it a foregone conclusion) the big boys decide to ignore the market.

Disagree. As the above article explained why 3.2 will not make economic sense. One of the draws of beer flavored water is price which will vanish if the beer factories quit producing it.

If only I had a nickel for every time someone told a small craft brewer exactly that.

After Oct. 1, I imagine it will be hard to find a beer in a bar for under 4 or 5 dollars from the tax hike.

After Oct. 1, I imagine it will be hard to find a beer in a bar for under 4 or 5 dollars from the tax hike.

So true, many of the bars charge on average $3.50 now; patrons will have to adjust their drinking habits. If you drink a 6 pack of can or 6 draws, just imagine the impact this could have on your ability to operate a motor vehicle--buzzed driving.

Oklahoma (ABLE com, liquor-by-the-drink) needs to take a page from some bar/club options they have in Texas. Stay open until 3 or 4 a.m., collect all alcohol, allow patrons to purchase snacks, juices & soft drinks--allow the bars (optional) an addition hour to stay open before putting patrons out on our roads. Those bars found in non-compliance will be in jeopardy of loss liquor or beverage license.

...or stop alcohol sales at 1 a.m., if you keep the 2 a.m. closing hours.

So true, many of the bars charge on average $3.50 now; patrons will have to adjust their drinking habits. If you drink a 6 pack of can or 6 draws, just imagine the impact this could have on your ability to operate a motor vehicle--buzzed driving.

Oklahoma (ABLE com, liquor-by-the-drink) needs to take a page from some bar/club options they have in Texas. Stay open until 3 or 4 a.m., collect all alcohol, allow patrons to purchase snacks, juices & soft drinks--allow the bars (optional) an addition hour to stay open before putting patrons out on our roads. Those bars found in non-compliance will be in jeopardy of loss liquor or beverage license.

...or stop alcohol sales at 1 a.m., if you keep the 2 a.m. closing hours.

Oklahoma is a lot stricter about this compared to other states I have lived, requiring ABC3 establishments to be completely emptied out by 2am. North Carolina requires bars to stop serving alcohol at 2am but they can stay open until 3 I believe. Arkansas has a similar policy except they also have a special license for nightclubs that allows them to stay open until 5am.

So true, many of the bars charge on average $3.50 now; patrons will have to adjust their drinking habits. If you drink a 6 pack of can or 6 draws, just imagine the impact this could have on your ability to operate a motor vehicle--buzzed driving.


In some Stillwater bars, like Finnegan's, downtown, you can get beer for as little as $2.

I very seldom drink as many as 6 straight when at a bar, and if I did I would have stopped by midnight to allow time to get sobered up by the time bar closes at 2.

I agree Oklahoma bars should simply stop serving alcohol at 2 pm and stay open an hour or two longer.

I wonder if Coop will revise their 3.2 recipes to "strong" beer. I like their 3.2 selections.Simply changing the measurement from ABV to ABW will make it 4.0 or so. Then it’s up to them if they want to go stronger. From what I’ve been able to find by research a lot of beers are brewed stronger and actually “watered down” in the final steps. If so making a low point beer stronger would be simple.

Disagree. As the above article explained why 3.2 will not make economic sense. One of the draws of beer flavored water is price which will vanish if the beer factories quit producing it.

You actually think Coors is going to stop producing Coors and C Lite? There are a lot of people who actually like it.

You actually think Coors is going to stop producing Coors and C Lite? There are a lot of people who actually like it.
But don't they only produce the 3.2 beer for the states that need it? Once OK offers high point beer, it won't be needed here.

You actually think Coors is going to stop producing Coors and C Lite? There are a lot of people who actually like it.
They’ll stop brewing 3.2 ABV. Oklahoma will get the 5.0 ABW that most everybody gets now.

I know street festivals were mentioned above, but any idea if this will change Campus Corner on game days which allows beer sales on the street? I know there may be fewer options as I doubt the bridal boutique will spring for a full blown liquor license, but I’m worried the practice will end entirely. I doubt NPD will enforce open container laws on game days, but it was nice to have a place to buy a beer or two before the game.

It will be interesting to see how the law affects prices, particularly on wine. With more retail vendors, one would think competition would drive prices down, however, I’m hearing there will actually be fewer distributors thus raising prices at the wholesale level. I don’t know how much higher Oklahoma’s alcohol prices are on a percentage basis, but for comparison, I recently purchased a bottle of a well-known brand of wine while on a trip to Plano, Texas, for $6.99. The exact same brand and variety at Byron’s cost about $12.31.

But don't they only produce the 3.2 beer for the states that need it? Once OK offers high point beer, it won't be needed here.

This is true. Most 3.2 beer is consumed in Oklahoma because this is the only state where Big Beer doesn't even offer the full-strength version of their products. In all other 3.2 beer states you can go to a liquor store and get the full-strength version which significantly cuts down demand for 3.2 beer in those states. Since most 3.2 beer is consumed in Oklahoma and Oklahoma won't be needing 3.2 beer anymore, it will be surprising if they even still make it. Utah is the only other state that even has a sizable 3.2 market. Minnesota and Kansas have 3.2 beer in their grocery stores, but the percentage of total beers sales that are 3.2 is in the single digits in those states.

Some questions I have -

1) Will you need a liquor license to serve drinks now as a server? (I don't think you needed to have a liquor license to sell 3.2 beer but I could be wrong)

2) Strip clubs could not sell beer in excess of 3.2 if they had 18 year old dancers - Is this affected?

3) When will we get rid of proximity laws in regards to zoning of bars /ect?

This is true. Most 3.2 beer is consumed in Oklahoma because this is the only state where Big Beer doesn't even offer the full-strength version of their products. In all other 3.2 beer states you can go to a liquor store and get the full-strength version which significantly cuts down demand for 3.2 beer in those states. Since most 3.2 beer is consumed in Oklahoma and Oklahoma won't be needing 3.2 beer anymore, it will be surprising if they even still make it. Utah is the only other state that even has a sizable 3.2 market. Minnesota and Kansas have 3.2 beer in their grocery stores, but the percentage of total beers sales that are 3.2 is in the single digits in those states.

Budweiser has sold their full strength products in Oklahoma for some time now

Budweiser has sold their full strength products in Oklahoma for some time now

Only on a limited basis. You can get Bud Light Platinum for instance in a liquor store, but you still cannot get full-strength, full-flavored Budweiser in Oklahoma.

They’ll stop brewing 3.2 ABV. Oklahoma will get the 5.0 ABW that most everybody gets now.

We have 3.2 abW currently. Wish equals 4 abV

Coors light bud light miller light nationally are rated at 4.2 abV basicly exactly the same as what we have now

Bud miller and. Coors are all 5% abV Ok versions are 4 ABV so 20 % weaker

Some questions I have -

1) Will you need a liquor license to serve drinks now as a server? (I don't think you needed to have a liquor license to sell 3.2 beer but I could be wrong)

2) Strip clubs could not sell beer in excess of 3.2 if they had 18 year old dancers - Is this affected?

3) When will we get rid of proximity laws in regards to zoning of bars /ect?

More of the unaddressed unintended consequences I was mentioning. I think there are a TON of these things to be sorted through; I just hope someone is paying attention to them.

We have 3.2 abW currently. Wish equals 4 abV

Coors light bud light miller light nationally are rated at 4.2 abV basicly exactly the same as what we have now

Bud miller and. Coors are all 5% abV Ok versions are 4 ABV so 20 % weaker
So "basicly exactly"? You're using a lot of words to concede they're not the same.

They're not exactly the same but they're pretty darn close to the same. And the usage of watered down by some folks shows a lack of knowledge of the brewing process. People who claim they can taste a difference are either imagining it or they are tasting a difference in the source water.

nm

They're not exactly the same but they're pretty darn close to the same. And the usage of watered down by some folks shows a lack of knowledge of the brewing process. People who claim they can taste a difference are either imagining it or they are tasting a difference in the source water.

Really? I’m surprised you’d say this. It completely depends on which process is used. There are three different methods for converting regular-strength beer to low-point, and all of them can affect the flavor to varying degrees.


Baking off the alcohol...heating it and letting the alcohol vapor condense and draining it away. Basically the process of distillation, but instead of saving the alcohol and throwing out the mash you do the opposite.
Reverse osmosis...running it through a filter with holes that allow alcohol molecules through but not water. Additional water is often added during this process.
Simply, quite literally “watering it down,” that is, adding water.

These techniques are sometimes used together. Either way I think the all affect the taste to some degree. None of them are a legitimate part of the brewing process. I wouldn’t be surprised if the “just add water to it” approach wasn’t used for many 3.2 beers in Oklahoma. It’s especially evident in some of the typically more flavorful beers, like Fat Tire.

There ARE beers that are intentionally brewed to low point and which don’t utilize the above processes, such as the COOP offerings, but I’ll guaranteed Bud and Coors don’t reformulate their beers just for us; they use one of the techniques above, which could include simply watering it down.

I don't know they'd spend the effort to brew up high point beer and then add water. That would take longer fermentation time. You can definitely brew to be under a certain limit. The watered down description makes it sound like they're trucking in vats of already finished beer and just adding water to it.

I wouldn't describe the first two as watering down just because water is involved. Water is involved in making beer in general.

I routinely brew beer of different strengths that I monitor with a hydrometer during the process.

I will qualify, I base some of my opinion on the statements from Amheiser themselves, where they stated they don't water down thier beers.

Either way, you're talking to someone who's routinely put ice cubes into his warm beer too cool it down and the additional water doesn't bother me. But I also like PBR so my tastes are suspect. ��

I don't know they'd spend the effort to brew up high point beer and then add water. That would take longer fermentation time. You can definitely brew to be under a certain limit. The watered down description makes it sound like they're trucking in vats of already finished beer and just adding water to it.

I wouldn't describe the first two as watering down just because water is involved. Water is involved in making beer in general.

I routinely brew beer of different strengths that I monitor with a hydrometer during the process.
No, what I'm envisioning more is that they brew all beer to the same strength at the beer factory and then while the finished beer moves on to the canning/bottling line for everyone else, they have a separate "crappy beer states" production line that uses one of the listed to remove alcohol from the finished beer. So basically, they brew full-strength for everyone, but before bottling for the 3.2 states it goes through a separate alcohol-removal step. That is how it is described in a number of online sources I found.