Hi. I am in the Air Force and recently transferred here to Tinker. My wife and I are looking to buy home in OKC.

We currently have our eyes on one in particular, but are not totally sure about the area. It is on NW 34th st, on the block just to the west of Classen. The neighborhood its in is called Military Park. The block that its on seems to be decent, and the home is great, new electric/plumbing, fully remodeled etc. Putnam Heights is one street north, but further into Military Park looks kind of rough. We would prefer to find something on the east side of Classen around the same area, but nothing has popped up. Being new to the area, we are not sure if this is an "up and coming" neighborhood, there seem to be some nice homes scattered throughout, but they are pretty scarce.

If anybody can provide some insight into crime and personal opinions pertaining to future growth/development for this area I would appreciate it. We would love a home in Mesta Park, Gatewood, or a similar neighborhood but haven't found anything reasonably nice in our price range, but if anyone knows of anything or an area that might have a better future please let me know. Thanks

It's up and coming, and your assessment hits the area spot on. East of Classen is more desired, but also more expensive, Putnam Heights is nice, that area you mention is up and coming but still has some rough patches. Your assessment of Mesta Park, Gatewood, etc. seems spot on, but you will definitely pay more.

I would not do Military Park. There are great great hoods that are coming back much faster west of Classen, but they're between 16th and 30th mostly. Try Gatewood. And there ARE good bargains still to be found in the more established historic hoods east of Classen.

You're on the right track though, living far away from Tinker. Many families make the mistake of living near Tinker and do not enjoy their experience in OKC. That's a really bad area, even those new neighborhoods in Del City are more crime-prone than the inner north side.

Location...Location...Location. Go where the good schools are. Frankly I would not live anywhere in the OKC Public Schools district. When you buy a house the future buyers when you sell are more important than you.

Location...Location...Location. Go where the good schools are. Frankly I would not live anywhere in the OKC Public Schools district. When you buy a house the future buyers when you sell are more important than you.

LAME! Location Location Location! Ummm like actually living in the City and not in a boring ass suburb! What exactly is so bad about OKC public?

Are you kidding me to ask such a question? Look at the High Schools and what loosers they are. Name me one thing in which they are better than Yukon/Edmond/Moore/Putnam City/Norman. Academics...suck. Arts Programs...suck. Athletices...suck.

Anybody that is not IGNORANT of real estate knows that location/schools is primary in living choices. DUH!!!

they may suck, but that is no reason to abandon the inner city. Devin may not have kids and if he does, he sounds like he might be quite involved with their development and perhaps also the district. This is what inner city schools need, parents to be involved - not parents denograte and flight away to the suburbs.

PC used to be a top district too but now it's not too much different from the inner city, because of the lack of parental involvement. So please don't blame the OKC schools themselves - there are a host of issues at play and really they need people to help not to sit on the sidelines complaining.

Are you kidding me to ask such a question? Look at the High Schools and what loosers they are. Name me one thing in which they are better than Yukon/Edmond/Moore/Putnam City/Norman. Academics...suck. Arts Programs...suck. Athletices...suck.

Anybody that is not IGNORANT of real estate knows that location/schools is primary in living choices. DUH!!!

Classen School of Advanced Studies and the entire OKC Public Schools magnet school system is a notch above anything any of the big suburbs can offer, including Edmond or Deer Creek. Classen SAS is ranked in USNWR's Top 100 high schools in the nation. Look it up on a map and you may be shocked where it is...inner north. Most of its students come from between downtown and Nichols Hills, but some even transfer in from other districts.

Northwest Classen HS is on par with all of the suburban schools, and that's the regular-level HS for the inner north. Granted, US Grant and Capitol Hill are having huge issues which they've always suffered from. Granted these schools still have facilities far better than the burbs and most of them at least have better arts offerings than all of the suburban schools. Granted, gangs may also be a problem in ones like US Grant and Capitol Hill. Probably the worst OKC PS high school is John Marshall, and again, pull a map and you may be surprised where it is. Far North.

I've seen some of the smartest kids come out of the worst schools, or from the smallest towns where they have no facilities. School has nothing to do with intelligence, and far less to do with achievement than people think. One of the reason in the past suburban schools tended to have better scores is because the kids in them had parents who were smarter and had higher expectations and so statistically they looked better.

MAPS has improved facilities and in city schools kids get a much better mix of people from different backgrounds. It's a broadening experience. Anyway, I'd challenge any public school in the suburbs to say they're a better school than Classen. It's people running away from city schools that has affected the tax base and facilities in the first place. If people come back, they improve. People don't have to live in the suburbs to have children who succeed: intelligent children with involved parents can succeed anywhere. Most of knowledge is self-taught regardless, and if you can learn to read you can learn anything.

Location...Location...Location. Go where the good schools are. Frankly I would not live anywhere in the OKC Public Schools district. When you buy a house the future buyers when you sell are more important than you.

Yea, don't think about yourself but only about the unknown person who you will sell your house too. That's a terrific way to live...

very well said betts.

Hi. I am in the Air Force and recently transferred here to Tinker. My wife and I are looking to buy home in OKC.

We currently have our eyes on one in particular, but are not totally sure about the area. It is on NW 34th st, on the block just to the west of Classen. The neighborhood its in is called Military Park. The block that its on seems to be decent, and the home is great, new electric/plumbing, fully remodeled etc. Putnam Heights is one street north, but further into Military Park looks kind of rough. We would prefer to find something on the east side of Classen around the same area, but nothing has popped up. Being new to the area, we are not sure if this is an "up and coming" neighborhood, there seem to be some nice homes scattered throughout, but they are pretty scarce.

If anybody can provide some insight into crime and personal opinions pertaining to future growth/development for this area I would appreciate it. We would love a home in Mesta Park, Gatewood, or a similar neighborhood but haven't found anything reasonably nice in our price range, but if anyone knows of anything or an area that might have a better future please let me know. Thanks

Well, all of the following should be filed under one man's opinion. Military Park is a quite problematic indeed. The neighborhood has quite a ways to go before becoming mostly "gentrified". From friends that live (or have lived) in the neighborhood I get the impression that crime is a bit more of a problem than in some of the other inner city "historic" districts. There is an insanely run down apartment complex to the south of there that will be a huge barrier to improving the neighborhood short term. Having said all of that, it may not technically matter. The quality of streets and home locations in the inner city is a zany random kind of thing. I'd ask the neighbors, especially the ones that own. The quality of a street or location can vary enormously from street to street. Like others have said on this thread, Gatewood and Mesta are lovely and safer, if you are lucky enough to find a reasonable house on Carey Place in Gatewood it is possibly the coolest street in all of the inner city north.

If you are finding Mesta and Gatewood to be a bit too pricey I would HIGHLY recommend my own neighborhood, Crestwood. It is a little further to the west than the others mentioned, but has a ton of awesome pre-war bungalows in the 1500sf +/- range with lovely details and good yards. It is still connected to the rest of the historic neighborhoods, it is still quite a bit east of I-44, it feels quite safe and laid back, and has a great eclectic urban feel. The houses in this area will be in the 70k range for a fixer upper, and in the 85-low 100s for a very nice remodel. I can be downtown in about 5-10 minutes and at Tinker AFB (I commute to MWC about 3 times per week) in about 15. The neighborhood is between NW 16th and NW 23rd and N May Ave and N Villa. You should also check out the neighborhoods a little further west down 34th, in the Venice area. There are great bargains to be had here and there throughout that area.

I'd suggest renting a house in that neighborhood for 6 months if that isn't too revolting. then you will know what would be a good area to buy that fits your preferences. Besides, its not like OKC has that much house price appreciation these days.

I would not do Military Park. There are great great hoods that are coming back much faster west of Classen, but they're between 16th and 30th mostly. Try Gatewood. And there ARE good bargains still to be found in the more established historic hoods east of Classen.

You're on the right track though, living far away from Tinker. Many families make the mistake of living near Tinker and do not enjoy their experience in OKC. That's a really bad area, even those new neighborhoods in Del City are more crime-prone than the inner north side.

This makes me chuckle because most people I work with are miserable here, and oddly enough those people live in Midwest City/Del City or Choctaw. That is a terrible area so I see why they are so unhappy. The wife and I have been here about 6 months and we really enjoy the area. We love the art walks in the Paseo, Cafe Nova, the Pho restaurants, etc.

I'd suggest renting a house in that neighborhood for 6 months if that isn't too revolting. then you will know what would be a good area to buy that fits your preferences. Besides, its not like OKC has that much house price appreciation these days.

I wouldn't say that. Home values are on the rise, and it will be EXTREMELY interesting to watch OKC home prices once the national economy stabilizes.

Northwest Classen HS is on par with all of the suburban schools, and that's the regular-level HS for the inner north. Granted, US Grant and Capitol Hill are having huge issues which they've always suffered from. Granted these schools still have facilities far better than the burbs and most of them at least have better arts offerings than all of the suburban schools. Granted, gangs may also be a problem in ones like US Grant and Capitol Hill. Probably the worst OKC PS high school is John Marshall, and again, pull a map and you may be surprised where it is. Far North.

I agree that Classen is a top flight HS for anywhere in the country. However the rest are WAY down the desirability rating. IMHO NW Classen is NOWHERE near the quality of Edmond North, Edmond Sante Fe, Yukon, Moore (3) etc. As for arts how many award winning vocal music programs does OKC HS have? How many marching band programs? How many orchestra and/or stringed music programs of quality? Gangs are a problem in EVERY OKC HS except Classen. Capitol Hill HS, Southeast HS, Grant HS, and John Marshall are wastelands. As for your inference about JM's location the students that live in the area generally do not go to JM. Marshall students are from neighborhoods other than the one in which the school sits.

OKC Schools hae come a ways but they still have light years to go. It is not just OKC but in generally big urban school districts across the country are bastions of mediocrity at best.

OKC Schools hae come a ways but they still have light years to go. It is not just OKC but in generally big urban school districts across the country are bastions of mediocrity at best.

As a whole, yes. But within the large urban districts there are good schools, usually magnets. Most of these types of schools are in the inner north neighborhoods where Devin is looking. The key for any school is parent involvement. How can the schools get better if the parents leave for the suburbs? OKC, and other urban school districts, need more families sending their kids to the urban schools. I plan on sending my kids (whenever that may be) to urban schools.

As for the neighborhood, Military Park is a good place to be. You have neighborhoods like Gatewood to the south and Putnam Heights to the north. Still some rundown areas (especially closer to OCU, oddly enough) but for the most part it's a pretty good neighborhood.

First Welcome to OKC, and thank you for your service in the Air Force.

For the price you should be able to do better than Military Park.

Continue looking in Gatewood, Crestwood, Jefferson Park, and Paseo. MP would be last on this list because I don't think it's upswing is progressing as quickly, as the others I have mentioned too.

Don't worry about the public schools in this inner-north area. They are good, it may take a little more parental involvement than if you were in Edmond but more parental involvement usually never hurts, especially in areas of need. Being part of the solution will be more rewarding than being part of the problem.

In the Military Park discussion, when will OCU get involved in this neighborhood? (maybe they are, I don't know)? It would seem easy for OCU to start a community clean-up project for students and to start by cleaning up their own backyard.

In the Military Park discussion, when will OCU get involved in this neighborhood? (maybe they are, I don't know)? It would seem easy for OCU to start a community clean-up project for students and to start by cleaning up their own backyard.

You would think they would be but I have not seen any susbantive long-term involvement. It could be that they have taken a very bunker/cloistered mentality and either hope the blight goes away or they just ignore it.

I am totally onboard with parental involvement. When my son was in K-12 his mom and I were very active in his activities and the schools he attended in general. But that can only go so far. Parents cannot make up for structural/program flaws/failure to provideless than competent teachers in the schools themselves. Our kids only get one shot at a good education. Why not start at a good school system instead of a work in progress school and work real hard to hopefully make it better for the kids that come along in the future?

The term looking out for...

I'm going to argue that structural problems (less of an issue with MAPS) have nothing to do with education, and that the native IQ and drive of the student, coupled with parental involvement, is primarily what is responsible for success in education and ultimately in life. I've seen plenty of failures come out of our best school systems and, since I'm in the higher education business, I've seen brilliant students come out of 3 room schoolhouses that you know cannot have much in the way of facilities and certainly don't draw our best teachers. In addition, there's an education you cannot buy that comes from associating with people of different ethnicities and income levels. If I had it to do all over again, I would save the money I spent on private schools for my children and would have happily sent them to public schools in Oklahoma City. I feel quite comfortable in saying they would have done just as well.

You would think they would be but I have not seen any susbantive long-term involvement. It could be that they have taken a very bunker/cloistered mentality and either hope the blight goes away or they just ignore it.


TU has done the same thing in Tulsa with the rundown areas west of its campus. It would seem that OCU and TU would want to be more actively involved in cleaning up their neighborhoods. That would go a long way in improving Military Park and that area west of Classen north of 30th St.

Douglas Place and Edgemere Terrace is also a neighborhood you may want to consider (boundaries being 50th to the North, Harvey to the East, 42nd to the South, and Western to the West). I live in this area and love it. There is a nice size park and a great street for running and biking (Shartel). Great access to I-235, bars, and restaurants. However, you won't find houses with the architecural character of some of the neighborhoods commented on above. Also, a bit of a disclaimer, I have no children...

Devin, I'd say that the fact you are looking at NW 34 and Classen shows you're an urban core guy, and not a suburban guy like Mustang. This forum is great, but it definitely has its sides drawn - those who see the suburbs as being boring and a drag on the city, those who see the urban core as unsafe, somehow a bad investment.
You're witnessing the same sorts of extremes we saw in the recent election. It's the times, I guess.
Here's the main thing for you to consider: all the nearby historic neighborhoods are on the rise, and Military Park is almost certainly next on the que. The question is, are you looking at a long-term or short-term purchase? If this is a house you only intend to buy and live in for a few years, I'd gravitate more toward a neighborhood that has already crossed the line and is solidly on the rise (Military Park, thanks to devel opment along nearby NW 23, will almost certainly be in that stage this next decade). But if you're looking at buying a home, enjoying it, fixing it up, and living there for a decade or longer, yep, you've got yourself a great find. And don't worry about the schools - there are some great magnet schools nearby.

I agree that Classen is a top flight HS for anywhere in the country. However the rest are WAY down the desirability rating. IMHO NW Classen is NOWHERE near the quality of Edmond North, Edmond Sante Fe, Yukon, Moore (3) etc. As for arts how many award winning vocal music programs does OKC HS have? How many marching band programs? How many orchestra and/or stringed music programs of quality? Gangs are a problem in EVERY OKC HS except Classen. Capitol Hill HS, Southeast HS, Grant HS, and John Marshall are wastelands. As for your inference about JM's location the students that live in the area generally do not go to JM. Marshall students are from neighborhoods other than the one in which the school sits.

OKC Schools hae come a ways but they still have light years to go. It is not just OKC but in generally big urban school districts across the country are bastions of mediocrity at best.

I wanna know how Southeast is a wasteland. You lost all credibility there. It's a magnet school that you have to apply to get into. Your knowledge is obviously flawed. I graduated from there and in my graduating class there were 25 Valedictorians out of a class of 170. This was this past may. I'll excuse your ignorance now. I never ever experienced a gang problem at Southeast. Grant and Capitol Hill, sure, but not Southeast. I don't know where you got that notion. I encourage you to visit that school and you'll eat the words out your mouth.

Oh and just so you know. Harding Prep was on that list too behind Classen SAS and was higher than both Edmond schools on the ranking also. Actually, the two highest ranking schools in all of Oklahoma were in OKCPS.

First Welcome to OKC, and thank you for your service in the Air Force.

For the price you should be able to do better than Military Park.

Continue looking in Gatewood, Crestwood, Jefferson Park, and Paseo. MP would be last on this list because I don't think it's upswing is progressing as quickly, as the others I have mentioned too.

Don't worry about the public schools in this inner-north area. They are good, it may take a little more parental involvement than if you were in Edmond but more parental involvement usually never hurts, especially in areas of need. Being part of the solution will be more rewarding than being part of the problem.

In the Military Park discussion, when will OCU get involved in this neighborhood? (maybe they are, I don't know)? It would seem easy for OCU to start a community clean-up project for students and to start by cleaning up their own backyard.

Thank you for your support. Not everyone feels that way.


I appreciate everyone's comments. I think a lot of the posts here really hit the nail on the head. I grew up in a rough inner city neighborhood, single parent household, went to "terrible" inner city public schools, and still managed a 4.3 GPA and full ride college scholarship. Not tooting my own horn, I just firmly believe that strong parental relationships, proper guidance, and the appropriate values have much more impact on a child's future than anything else. Improving my community has always been a priority for me because I saw so many young people misled and watched people make decisions that negatively impacted their futures without even realizing that there were alternatives. Sending your kid to a public school might not seem to make a difference, but the more active parents that get on board, the more the schools will improve.

Abandoning the urban areas and leaving innocent youth to grow up in ignorance seems less than human to me. Crime/ignorance/violence will not cease to exist if we just move further away, it grows as well and we end up in a race to develop new communities further and further away before the "urban" problems catch up to us. This is evidenced in many major cities where once "nice" suburbs are now equally as bad as the cities that people were originally trying to escape. The only real solution to this problem is to put the tax dollars, the strong parents, and the successful members of society back into the cities as a foundation for improvement at the source of the problem. Welfare or any other "government assistance" does not help anyone in the long run. We have to make changes in the mindset of the people.

sorry for the rant, just glad to see there are some people here who haven't given up hope for the urban areas

Yep. Someone has out-dated and out-right bad info. I always wonder when I hear outright uninformed hatred directed against the inner-city - is it lifestyle preference, or is there a darker, more sinister motive involved? Are there motives that 40 years ago would have been stated publicly, but now must be hidden behind buzz words and stereotypes?
For what it's worth, Moore, Yukon, Edmond, Mustang and Putnam City schools all have gang elements. And the most recent murders in the city took place in some of the nicest neighborhoods.

I also hear really good things about Cleveland Elementary and, of course, Wilson. I have friends who chose Wilson over Casady and LOVE it and it had nothing to do with the cost of Casady.

BTW, Cleveland is a great neighborhood, too. Very Crown Heights at about half the cost. Of course, you are further from downtown, western, Paseo, and all the other things that makes CH such a great place to live.

I graduated from there and in my graduating class there were 25 Valedictorians out of a class of 170. This was this past may. I'll excuse your ignorance now.

And I will excuse your youth and inexperience. My credibility with you is of NO concern to me at all. I am good friends with the OKCPD officer assigned to SE and the stories...That school officer is not the only one I know either.

I am a surburan man and that is where my mindset is. Anybody who is of an urban mindset then good for you. Just learn to accept that we will sometimes have to agree to diasgree.

Yea, don't think about yourself but only about the unknown person who you will sell your house too. That's a terrific way to live...

A parent's number one priority is the wellbeing of their kids and making sure they get a good education is right up with feeding them, keeping them safe, and teaching them right from wrong. If private school isn't an option, live in a shack before you send your child to a crappy public school.

I am a surburan man and that is where my mindset is.
Mustang, kudos to you for your honesty. Seriously. This is how we should all approach such discussions - by admitting up front from what perspectives we come from, what biases we bring. I will respond with this: isn't it possible there are some good public schools in the urban core, just as there might be some bad schools in the suburbs? Or is it all black and white, with no gray in between?

Sure Steve I agree with your premise. There are good urban schools and bad suburban schools. I just feel that one has the leg up on the other and one has a better overall record of educational quality. It is a mere difference in perspective.

Location...Location...Location. Go where the good schools are. Frankly I would not live anywhere in the OKC Public Schools district. When you buy a house the future buyers when you sell are more important than you.

Get over yourself. OKC Schools has some of the best schools in the state, like Classen SAS. There are a lot of quality options for inner-city schools.

A lot of our inner-city neighborhoods are gentrified to the point of driving out diversity. Paseo is an example of a great urban neighborhood that has maintained character, diversity, and affordability. The urban core comes with its fair share of elitism and exclusivity just as the suburbs do.

A lot of our inner-city neighborhoods are gentrified to the point of driving out diversity.

What/where are these gentrified inner-city neighborhoods which you are referring to?

Thank you for your support. Not everyone feels that way.


I appreciate everyone's comments. I think a lot of the posts here really hit the nail on the head. I grew up in a rough inner city neighborhood, single parent household, went to "terrible" inner city public schools, and still managed a 4.3 GPA and full ride college scholarship. Not tooting my own horn, I just firmly believe that strong parental relationships, proper guidance, and the appropriate values have much more impact on a child's future than anything else. Improving my community has always been a priority for me because I saw so many young people misled and watched people make decisions that negatively impacted their futures without even realizing that there were alternatives. Sending your kid to a public school might not seem to make a difference, but the more active parents that get on board, the more the schools will improve.

Abandoning the urban areas and leaving innocent youth to grow up in ignorance seems less than human to me. Crime/ignorance/violence will not cease to exist if we just move further away, it grows as well and we end up in a race to develop new communities further and further away before the "urban" problems catch up to us. This is evidenced in many major cities where once "nice" suburbs are now equally as bad as the cities that people were originally trying to escape. The only real solution to this problem is to put the tax dollars, the strong parents, and the successful members of society back into the cities as a foundation for improvement at the source of the problem. Welfare or any other "government assistance" does not help anyone in the long run. We have to make changes in the mindset of the people.

sorry for the rant, just glad to see there are some people here who haven't given up hope for the urban areas

I couldn't agree more! Thank you for putting into words exactly how I feel! Clearly folks like MustangGT and others don't get this and contribute to the problem.

Your point could not be more on target about how the "urban problems" have migrated to the suburbs. This is true in OKC, too, where some of our outer loop areas -- formerly green suburbs -- have become run-down and crime-ridden. Ironically, our inner-city neighborhoods seem to be getting safer and safer.

And I will excuse your youth and inexperience. My credibility with you is of NO concern to me at all. I am good friends with the OKCPD officer assigned to SE and the stories...That school officer is not the only one I know either.


Here's where you're wrong. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO about your suburban mindset or whatever excuse you have to call it, or my "youth". I'm pretty sure I'm just as credible as you, regardless of my age. Southeast has had several different officers since I was there these past 4 years. What's funny is that THEY NEVER DID ANYTHING. There was nothing for them to do. The worst situation that had happened since I was there was someone attempting to break into the school after a shooting down the street. I'd like to know who this officer that told you this is because I knew all of the officers that had worked there personally. They were always involved with the kids and actually, most of their time was spent behind the snack bar selling candy. In fact, the most recent one that worked there [there is only 1] was Officer Webb and she had nothing but good things to say about that school, so who is this mysterious officer? She's been there for 2 years. And before that, I don't remember his name, but it was a man and he loved Southeast also, and even volunteered with the volleyball team. Sure, there's the occasional fight but we didn't even have graffiti problems! I just cannot understand how you can think you're so right when I know from experiece that you're WRONG.

You may have heard "stories" from an officer. But I experienced it firsthand and what you're saying isn't matching up. But oh, that's just your suburban mindset isn't it? :doh: Maybe that cop had the same mindset. Until you take a step outside of your precious suburbia and experience each and every OKCPS first hand, you have NO right to form a legitimate opinion.

Thank you for your support. Not everyone feels that way.


I appreciate everyone's comments. I think a lot of the posts here really hit the nail on the head. I grew up in a rough inner city neighborhood, single parent household, went to "terrible" inner city public schools, and still managed a 4.3 GPA and full ride college scholarship. Not tooting my own horn, I just firmly believe that strong parental relationships, proper guidance, and the appropriate values have much more impact on a child's future than anything else. Improving my community has always been a priority for me because I saw so many young people misled and watched people make decisions that negatively impacted their futures without even realizing that there were alternatives. Sending your kid to a public school might not seem to make a difference, but the more active parents that get on board, the more the schools will improve.

Abandoning the urban areas and leaving innocent youth to grow up in ignorance seems less than human to me. Crime/ignorance/violence will not cease to exist if we just move further away, it grows as well and we end up in a race to develop new communities further and further away before the "urban" problems catch up to us. This is evidenced in many major cities where once "nice" suburbs are now equally as bad as the cities that people were originally trying to escape. The only real solution to this problem is to put the tax dollars, the strong parents, and the successful members of society back into the cities as a foundation for improvement at the source of the problem. Welfare or any other "government assistance" does not help anyone in the long run. We have to make changes in the mindset of the people.

sorry for the rant, just glad to see there are some people here who haven't given up hope for the urban areas

Devin, sorry I missed this comment.
Please give Military Park some consideration. With someone like you added to the mix, yes, I believe it has an improved shot at being the next up and coming neighborhood.

Mustang, kudos to you for your honesty. Seriously. This is how we should all approach such discussions - by admitting up front from what perspectives we come from, what biases we bring. I will respond with this: isn't it possible there are some good public schools in the urban core, just as there might be some bad schools in the suburbs? Or is it all black and white, with no gray in between?

Tell us what bias you bring?

Here's where you're wrong. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO about your suburban mindset or whatever excuse you have to call it, or my "youth". I'm pretty sure I'm just as credible as you, regardless of my age. Southeast has had several different officers since I was there these past 4 years. What's funny is that THEY NEVER DID ANYTHING. There was nothing for them to do. The worst situation that had happened since I was there was someone attempting to break into the school after a shooting down the street. I'd like to know who this officer that told you this is because I knew all of the officers that had worked there personally. They were always involved with the kids and actually, most of their time was spent behind the snack bar selling candy. In fact, the most recent one that worked there [there is only 1] was Officer Webb and she had nothing but good things to say about that school, so who is this mysterious officer? She's been there for 2 years. And before that, I don't remember his name, but it was a man and he loved Southeast also, and even volunteered with the volleyball team. Sure, there's the occasional fight but we didn't even have graffiti problems! I just cannot understand how you can think you're so right when I know from experiece that you're WRONG.

You may have heard "stories" from an officer. But I experienced it firsthand and what you're saying isn't matching up. But oh, that's just your suburban mindset isn't it? :doh: Maybe that cop had the same mindset. Until you take a step outside of your precious suburbia and experience each and every OKCPS first hand, you have NO right to form a legitimate opinion.

Too much ignorant blather to defuse it point by point. I have my feelings you have yours and never the twain shall meet. Neither you nor anyone else has the place to tell me what my rights are and whether they are legitimate or not. That arguement is the last refuge of a closed mind. Grow up and experience and relish diversity. I will waste NO more time on you. I suggest you do the same. End of story.

What/where are these gentrified inner-city neighborhoods which you are referring to?

Jefferson Park, Paseo, Edgemere, Mesta Park, Putnam Heights, Plaza District area, MidTown, etc. etc.

Too much ignorant blather to defuse it point by point. I have my feelings you have yours and never the twain shall meet. Neither you nor anyone else has the place to tell me what my rights are and whether they are legitimate or not. That arguement is the last refuge of a closed mind. Grow up and experience and relish diversity. I will waste NO more time on you. I suggest you do the same. End of story.

So what is your point for visiting this board? To discourage people from taking residence in our city? Do you just want to see our city rot and shed residents? It would seem your time would be better served chatting on an Edmond/Deer Creek message board.

Not at all. I love OKC and live here. Like any location it has its warts. Yes there are things in OKC that are not to my liking or the liking of others. That is why we had the MAPS ongoing series improvements. I thought this board celebrated diversity of opinion. On some thread this is true. Of late is seems that if I do not goose-step with the attitude that all is peachy then I am the weird one??? Strange....

As I was complimented I voluntarily exposed my bias on this thread. How bout you, what are yours?

I just curious how many people getting all het up about the slam on OKC public schools have their own children attending an inner city school - or attended themselves. I've noticed idealism goes out the window when it is your own child paying the price.

I just curious how many people getting all het up about the slam on OKC public schools have their own children attending an inner city school - or attended themselves. I've noticed idealism goes out the window when it is your own child paying the price.

Exactly. Who wants to be the first to volunteer their future National Merit scholar to attend Douglass?

The general perception of OKC schools is in line with reality. The test scores and graduation rates say it all. With only a couple of exceptions, OKCPS high schools are definitively below state average (which is already low to begin with) in academic performance. Some--particularly those closer to downtown--are so far below average it's scary.

Of course Harding and Classen SAS are great schools that serve a small population and private schools or home schooling are options for some families. To an average family, though, the choice between the likes of NW Classen and one of the Edmond schools is an easy one. I don't blame them. Of course the right child can learn anywhere, but why introduce an unnecessary challenge? Evidently the urban living apologists would rather put the perceived vitality of the city's core before the future of their own children...I suppose it's their prerogative...

I just feel that one has the leg up on the other and one has a better overall record of educational quality.

I think the problem is that this is a bit outdated. Maybe 10 years ago this would have been true. The reality is that the best schools in the metro are in OKC. However, the worst schools are in OKC as well.

The Oklahoma City metro area is beginning to have choices and, if public schools are a priority, you don't have to sacrifice access to urban amenities to get it. If suburban living is what you want and you want decent schools, if you choose right, you can have that. We have had that for some time. But now, you can have inner city living and good education services as well, if you choose right.

This is a GOOD thing. Having a variety of quality living choices is what will make Oklahoma City competitive again and will help keep it that way. You put 100 people in a room and they aren't all going to want to live the same way, but you can bet that all of them are looking to make as few sacrifices as possible when it comes to how they want to live. That's why you can't attract quality businesses when you offer just one way of life. You may be able to say, hey you can live in a town outside of the city and have great suburban living with good schools. But they will just say "well, we have 500 employees and want to be able to attract more quality employees as we grow. They don't all want to live that way and we can go dozens of other places that offer lots of choices on how to live, which increases our ability to compete for the best human resources in our field..."

There is no better way to suffocate a large community than planned homogeneity.

I just curious how many people getting all het up about the slam on OKC public schools have their own children attending an inner city school - or attended themselves. I've noticed idealism goes out the window when it is your own child paying the price.

There are a lot of people moving into some inner city districts for access to those schools. Wilson and Cleveland are two that I know people look for.

At the end of the day, Oklahoma as a whole does not compete well on a national level. However, a good education, certainly on par with surrounding communities, can be had in Oklahoma City, without obstacle.

I just curious how many people getting all het up about the slam on OKC public schools have their own children attending an inner city school - or attended themselves. I've noticed idealism goes out the window when it is your own child paying the price.

Mine does.

What's sad is the original poster said nothing about schools or having kids, yet we have a poster actively trying to discourage him from moving to the inner city. Despite the "goose step" comments, this doesn't seem to be in the spirit of this forum.

Classen School of Advanced Studies and the entire OKC Public Schools magnet school system is a notch above anything any of the big suburbs can offer, including Edmond or Deer Creek.

You've got to be kidding. I graduated from one of those magnet schools - Northeast Academy for Health Sciences and Engineering, and lets just say I'm now living out in Deer Creek for a reason.


Most of its students come from between downtown and Nichols Hills, but some even transfer in from other districts.

If you think people in Nichols Hills send their kids to OKC Public Schools, you're dreaming. It's called McGuiness, Cassady, and Heritage Hall.


Northwest Classen HS is on par with all of the suburban schools, and that's the regular-level HS for the inner north.

I volunteer at NW Classen. The place is pretty poverished and in need of severe TLC. Most of the students that go there are from broken homes and are below poverty level.

Thank you for your support. Not everyone feels that way.


I appreciate everyone's comments. I think a lot of the posts here really hit the nail on the head. I grew up in a rough inner city neighborhood, single parent household, went to "terrible" inner city public schools, and still managed a 4.3 GPA and full ride college scholarship. Not tooting my own horn, I just firmly believe that strong parental relationships, proper guidance, and the appropriate values have much more impact on a child's future than anything else. Improving my community has always been a priority for me because I saw so many young people misled and watched people make decisions that negatively impacted their futures without even realizing that there were alternatives. Sending your kid to a public school might not seem to make a difference, but the more active parents that get on board, the more the schools will improve.

Abandoning the urban areas and leaving innocent youth to grow up in ignorance seems less than human to me. Crime/ignorance/violence will not cease to exist if we just move further away, it grows as well and we end up in a race to develop new communities further and further away before the "urban" problems catch up to us. This is evidenced in many major cities where once "nice" suburbs are now equally as bad as the cities that people were originally trying to escape. The only real solution to this problem is to put the tax dollars, the strong parents, and the successful members of society back into the cities as a foundation for improvement at the source of the problem. Welfare or any other "government assistance" does not help anyone in the long run. We have to make changes in the mindset of the people.

sorry for the rant, just glad to see there are some people here who haven't given up hope for the urban areas

I agree with you on every point, and sorry I didn't say "welcome to OKC and thank you for your service" earlier, I should have. I think the lagging schools is a valid point in the most extreme situations, but that implies that the inner city is not a decent place to be. That is utterly false. I would contend it's the other way, that compared to the inner north side, most of the suburbs are not decent places to be because they are so ugly, standardized, and nondescript. What is someone's definition of a quality neighborhood? A street with rows of identical cookie cutter houses and surrounded by sterile blah VS. a street with unique, well-cared for homes surrounded by local shops and restaurants, art galleries, etc.

Classen SAS is by far the best school in the OKC district, but it's the only one that even comes close to the test scores, programs, etc. of the suburban or private schools.

You've got to be kidding. I graduated from one of those magnet schools - Northeast Academy for Health Sciences and Engineering, and lets just say I'm now living out in Deer Creek for a reason.



If you think people in Nichols Hills send their kids to OKC Public Schools, you're dreaming. It's called McGuiness, Cassady, and Heritage Hall.



I volunteer at NW Classen. The place is pretty poverished and in need of severe TLC. Most of the students that go there are from broken homes and are below poverty level.

NW Classen is recently renovated, actually. And I knew a few people from Nichols Hills that went to Classen SAS. I also knew a girl that lived in Westmoore's district, just down the street from me, that went to Classen SAS. There isn't a school, public or private, that can compete with Classen SAS as long as you can be designated "gifted and talented" at an early age.

As for Bishop McGuinness, again man, look at a map. Western & NW 50th. I believe NW Classen's district. Most of the kids that will eventually end up at McGuinness do parochial elementary/middle school at Bishop Carroll (Western & NW 30th) or Villa Theresa (Midtown).

Classen SAS is by far the best school in the OKC district, but it's the only one that even comes close to the test scores, programs, etc. of the suburban or private schools.

It actually outranks every single suburban or private school in the state. The closest to it is the School of Science and Math and Booker T. in Tulsa. Norman, Jenks and Bartlesville are usually in the mix as well.

What's sad is the original poster said nothing about schools or having kids, yet we have a poster actively trying to discourage him from moving to the inner city. Despite the "goose step" comments, this doesn't seem to be in the spirit of this forum.

As a guardian ad litem and former teacher, my first thought goes to what is best for the kids. If he doesn't have kids, it doesn't matter (to me) where he lives. I wasn't trying to discourage just anyone from going there. All I said was that if you have kids, you need to check it out. If you can get them into Classen or another good public school, great. But be aware of where they go to for middle school or highschool. I've had friends move to neighborhoods with lousy schools and when they have kids, end up paying huge prices for private school that they budgeted for.

NW Classen is recently renovated, actually. And I knew a few people from Nichols Hills that went to Classen SAS. I also knew a girl that lived in Westmoore's district, just down the street from me, that went to Classen SAS. There isn't a school, public or private, that can compete with Classen SAS as long as you can be designated "gifted and talented" at an early age.

As for Bishop McGuinness, again man, look at a map. Western & NW 50th. I believe NW Classen's district. Most of the kids that will eventually end up at McGuinness do parochial elementary/middle school at Bishop Carroll (Western & NW 30th) or Villa Theresa (Midtown).

Don't forget Christ the King (Nichols Hills). Also, be aware that in addition to being very highly ranked on a number of nationwide lists for academics, 98% of their kids go on to college.

McGuiness really is a "catch all" for all the private K-8 schools (Catholic and not) in north OKC. I know at least a dozen kids personally that matriculated there from Westminster.

I know we are getting pretty far adrift here but it should be pointed out that there are lots of good elementary schools in the OKC school district.

Everyone tends to think in terms of high schools but there are lots of neighborhoods where you wouldn't have to reevaluate schools until middle school, at least. And even then there are magnet schools and the like.

As a guardian ad litem and former teacher, my first thought goes to what is best for the kids. If he doesn't have kids, it doesn't matter (to me) where he lives. I wasn't trying to discourage just anyone from going there. All I said was that if you have kids, you need to check it out. If you can get them into Classen or another good public school, great. But be aware of where they go to for middle school or highschool. I've had friends move to neighborhoods with lousy schools and when they have kids, end up paying huge prices for private school that they budgeted for.

I can understand this, and this is a fair comment. Had MustangGT made a similar comment, we wouldn't still be talking about this. Instead, he made a blanket comment about schools when in fact the original poster didn't ask about schools. There are many good OKCPS, and the district is improving.

Actually, I know a fair number of people who live in Nichols Hills and have their kids at Nichols Hills Elementary. I also know a fair number living there who have their kids at Classen.

For those who say people shouldn't move back into the city because of the schools I ask, "How then are we to improve them? Is Oklahoma City supposed to gradually increase in physical size, as facilities closer to the inner city age and new schools are built on the suburban perimeter? Are we to accept that as the way things are supposed to be?

Actually, I know a fair number of people who live in Nichols Hills and have their kids at Nichols Hills Elementary. I also know a fair number living there who have their kids at Classen.

For those who say people shouldn't move back into the city because of the schools I ask, "How then are we to improve them? Is Oklahoma City supposed to gradually increase in physical size, as facilities closer to the inner city age and new schools are built on the suburban perimeter? Are we to accept that as the way things are supposed to be?

Most parents with the means to do so are less concerned with improving schools than the impact of those schools on their children. Anyone for whom education is a priority is not going to send their child to a subpar school if they can help it. They might be sympathetic but they aren't going to undermine their child's future success to build a neighborhood, given options.

I've known of parents who aren't that concerned about it (or haven't thought it though) who send their kids to those schools but most of them give lip service to the importance of education - or they came from an era where it was accepted that it was fine and don't realize that their kids aren't going to the same environment they did. Often, parents talk to sweet, enthusiastic teachers at Open House and they see their own children bringing home decent grades and never realize that their children are in a war zone and getting good grades, in large part, because in comparison to many, they are Einsteins. That doesn't mean the teachers ignore the curriculum, but there is some subjectivity.

Moreover, check out the gifted and talented classes in public schools - full of middle class white bread children who aren't behavior problems and who are placed in smaller "advanced" classes where they are able to actually have class not disrupted by continual behavior problems of other students. In public school, many classrooms are dumbed down zoos unless your kids are fortunate enough to be placed in gifted classes. I would suggest parents check it out beyond what they see at Open House. Go hang out at the playground and see how organized things are, whether the school is kept clean, even check out the overall test scores. It is easy to say you can get them through grade school and switch them at middle school or highschool but once the kids have made friends over a number of years, it is hard on them to switch schools - particularly as they come into the teen years.

A neighborhood like Nichols Hills is one thing - you can bet most of the kids there are going to be well tended, encouraged to study and supported by parents who have higher education as a value. Not nearly as likely, overall, in most inner city schools, if nothing else than because if the parents had those values, they probably wouldn't be living in run down neighborhoods that feed into so many OKC schools.

This is your child. Parents should investigate the public school they are going to every bit as carefully as a parent preparing to plop down several thousand dollars a semester.