Osage County skews the Tulsa MSA/CSA. It’s a huge mostly rural county with the only the populated portion in its far southwest corner, which is Tulsa. Take away Osage County and the numbers are very different.

OKC's city limits skew it as well, half of it is mostly rural watershed.

My point is you can make the same argument, Tulsa MSA/CSA is more rural or OKC city is more rural. Both are valid, but you can't swap only one like saying Tulsa would be bigger than OKC if it had the same city limit size. OKC is more than 700,000, and most of it is NOT in the rural area.

We'd love to take away rural OKC and Lincoln County (and the southern half of Grady County) too; would not make a dent in populatoion but would increase density even more.

My common sense argument was very clearly in regard to your uncited comment about all of OKC’s growth being in established areas and not the crap ton of rural space being developed here, which you completely ignored ya jack wagon. I’m not sure if you had a stroke or what but you’ve turned into one of the most ridiculous posters here over the last year or two. Congrats on refuting the secondary point I made in my post though!

Your last line just stupid. No one has said Tulsa would be have the same population as OKC if it were bigger and the only one here “ranting” about anything is you, per usual

Also you should apologize to Mike for dropping him, that wasn’t very nice.

If you want personal attacks we can go that route. YOU were saying Tulsa would be bigger if it had the same city limit size. And you constantly rant on and on when someone tries to make a point, then you result to personal attacks. Small man syndrome?

If you want personal attacks we can go that route. YOU were saying Tulsa would be bigger if it had the same city limit size. And you constantly rant on and on when someone tries to make a point, then you result to personal attacks. Small man syndrome?

Find and quote the post in which I said Tulsa would be bigger than OKC if its city limits were larger.

Well Oklahoma was just "OK" by its own admission/state slogan for years so hell, it's probably a complement either way lol.

Too bad how it seems in some ways, especially outside of Oklahoma City and Tulsa, things have gotten worse in Oklahoma since "Oklahoma is OK" was taken off of license plates.

Remember OKC city limits is 621 sq mi while Tulsa is only 186 sq mi. Expand Tulsa’s city limits to that size and I bet it’s close if not higher.

So we are going to start this circle argument of changing boundaries and suppositions are we?. In general, OKC area is growing bigger and faster than Tulsa. Just accept it. Why does it irk some people so much?

So we are going to start this circle argument of changing boundaries and suppositions are we?. In general, OKC area is growing bigger and faster than Tulsa. Just accept it. Why does it irk some people so much?

1) I wasn't the one who said this, as HOT ROD rambled on about.

2) It was in regard to population growth rate (not total population) being similar if Tulsa's city limits encompassed a larger area and in response to someone essentially saying that OKC grew 51 times faster than Tulsa between 2022-2023 which is a useless statistic if not stated in terms of the entire MSA.

3) I already proved that they aren't that far off in terms of estimated MSA population growth since 2020 but especially in estimated growth over the last year that was measured (2022-2023) which was the year used in the city comparison that BG918 responded to. OKC's MSA is growing faster than Tulsa, but not 51 times faster.

4) You know that saying the bolded part isn't what irks people so much.

BG918 could've phrased it better but he wasn't wrong in saying that they are closer in terms of population growth if a larger area was taken into account. That said, a better argument is that the metropolitan statistics are a better guide to an area's population growth than individual city statistics.

That said, a better argument is that the metropolitan statistics are a better guide to an area's population growth than individual city statistics.

Exactly, especially in Tulsa where the suburbs are over 60% of the metro population. Like I said a better comparison of growth between the two metros are OKC city limits (621 sq mi) to Tulsa County (587 sq mi) as both include the urban core and car-oriented suburban areas along with surrounding rural countryside. And face it while there is infill happening in both cities, with OKC leading Tulsa in that area, most new development and growth is greenfield sprawl.

1) I wasn't the one who said this, as HOT ROD rambled on about.

2) It was in regard to population growth rate (not total population) being similar if Tulsa's city limits encompassed a larger area and in response to someone essentially saying that OKC grew 51 times faster than Tulsa between 2022-2023 which is a useless statistic if not stated in terms of the entire MSA.

3) I already proved that they aren't that far off in terms of estimated MSA population growth since 2020 but especially in estimated growth over the last year that was measured (2022-2023) which was the year used in the city comparison that BG918 responded to. OKC's MSA is growing faster than Tulsa, but not 51 times faster.

4) You know that saying the bolded part isn't what irks people so much.

BG918 could've phrased it better but he wasn't wrong in saying that they are closer in terms of population growth if a larger area was taken into account. That said, a better argument is that the metropolitan statistics are a better guide to an area's population growth than individual city statistics.
I think if we divide the state along I-35 and give the Tulsa mega statistical area the population of the east side then Tulsa will show as faster growing and bigger than OKC. Tulsa wins.

Why not use l-40? ��

I think if we divide the state along I-35 and give the Tulsa mega statistical area the population of the east side then Tulsa will show as faster growing and bigger than OKC. Tulsa wins.

Or use the well defined metropolitan area boundaries that the census uses to evaluate the population of large areas with relatively high population density.

Actually instead, let’s act like it’s more important than anything else that OKC has a higher population than cities like Boston, Baltimore, Atlanta, Tampa, Miami, Minneapolis, Detroit and Washington DC and that no one cares that the metro population of each dwarfs ours. Also probably isn’t relevant that OKC covers nearly 5 times more land area than the closest on the list (Detroit) and over 12 times that of the smallest (Boston). How on earth do we only have one professional sports franchise?!?

The population of Dallas shrunk between 2020-2023. Guess it doesn’t matter that DFW grew at almost twice the rate that the OKC Metro did during the same time frame.

Again. Arguing just to argue.

Or use the well defined metropolitan area boundaries that the census uses to evaluate the population of large areas with relatively high population density.

Actually instead, let’s act like it’s more important than anything else that OKC has a higher population than cities like Boston, Baltimore, Atlanta, Tampa, Miami, Minneapolis, Detroit and Washington DC and that no one cares that the metro population of each dwarfs ours. Also probably isn’t relevant that OKC covers nearly 5 times more land area than the closest on the list (Detroit) and over 12 times that of the smallest (Boston). How on earth do we only have one professional sports franchise?!?

The population of Dallas shrunk between 2020-2023. Guess it doesn’t matter that DFW grew at almost twice the rate that the OKC Metro did during the same time frame.

Again. Arguing just to argue.
Diversion is intellectually dishonest. This petty debate about OKC and Tulsa just goes round and round making it all tedious and disingenuous.

Or use the well defined metropolitan area boundaries that the census uses to evaluate the population of large areas with relatively high population density.

Actually instead, let’s act like it’s more important than anything else that OKC has a higher population than cities like Boston, Baltimore, Atlanta, Tampa, Miami, Minneapolis, Detroit and Washington DC and that no one cares that the metro population of each dwarfs ours. Also probably isn’t relevant that OKC covers nearly 5 times more land area than the closest on the list (Detroit) and over 12 times that of the smallest (Boston). How on earth do we only have one professional sports franchise?!?

The population of Dallas shrunk between 2020-2023. Guess it doesn’t matter that DFW grew at almost twice the rate that the OKC Metro did during the same time frame.

Again. Arguing just to argue.
Diversion is intellectually dishonest. This petty debate about OKC and Tulsa just goes round and round making it all tedious and disingenuous. So, good luck on informing or resolving it.

Diversion is intellectually dishonest. This petty debate about OKC and Tulsa just goes round and round making it all tedious and disingenuous.

Who’s being dishonest? How is using comparable scenarios diverting from anything? Dismissing valid points is intellectually dishonest.

I suggested using the boundaries that the Census Bureau, the group that tracks population for the United States government, uses to track metro population growth and then provided multiple comparisons of OKC/OKC MSA to multiple metro areas other than Tulsa that give a broader context as to why basing population growth arguments on city population alone is flawed.

Your only contribution to the conversation has been restating posts you’ve already responded to weeks ago and diverting from the conversation by disregarding widely accepted methods of tracking population growth by saying “screw it, let’s just draw a line at I-35.” The only disingenuous person here is you (and possibly HOT ROD though based on his posts over the last year or so, I fear there may be something deeper going on there).

Once again, arguing just to argue and failing to make a single relevant point.

More great advertising for OKC.18940

More good pub for the City.

https://twitter.com/davidfholt/status/1805611043764244772

Not really press but I thought it was interesting. I like seeing outsiders views and here, we get a 2fer. To be fair, the purpose of the video he's reacting to is to be positive, not critical, of OKC but worth a watch none the less. Kinda long. I skipped around on it.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pAxzVjy3VoU

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An’ foolish notion:
What airs in dress an’ gait wad lea’e us,
An’ ev’n devotion! -- Robert Burns

Awesome video, Traxx, thanks for sharing.

O wad some Power the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An’ foolish notion:
What airs in dress an’ gait wad lea’e us,
An’ ev’n devotion! -- Robert Burns

Awesome video, Traxx, thanks for sharing.




Ol' Bob Burns. The lesser known father of documentary filmmaker Ken Burns. Bob texted this as he was having a stroke.

OKC will be the subject of the season premiere of True South on ESPN/the SEC Network tonight. Excited to watch. And highly recommend the show if you haven’t seen it before. Is a great Bourdain-esque show featuring the people, places, and culture of the south.

OKC will be the subject of the season premiere of True South on ESPN/the SEC Network tonight. Excited to watch. And highly recommend the show if you haven’t seen it before. Is a great Bourdain-esque show featuring the people, places, and culture of the south.

Thanks for the heads up, I set it to record.

OKC will be the subject of the season premiere of True South on ESPN/the SEC Network tonight. Excited to watch. And highly recommend the show if you haven’t seen it before. Is a great Bourdain-esque show featuring the people, places, and culture of the south.

Yes, thanks. Recorded it and just watched.

Mainly focused on the Stockyards, Cattleman's, and Juniors. They did talk to the manager of Jones Assembly but didn't really show that super cool space.

IMO, didn't paint our city in a very favorable light. Cows, steaks, and old people smoking cigars inside a restaurant. All of that looked like we were still living in the 70s.

Yes, thanks. Recorded it and just watched.

Mainly focused on the Stockyards, Cattleman's, and Juniors. They did talk to the manager of Jones Assembly but didn't really show that super cool space.

IMO, didn't paint our city in a very favorable light. Cows, steaks, and old people smoking cigars inside a restaurant. All of that looked like we were still living in the 70s.

Felt like they showed it in more of a "southern" light than some of the fun things that are going on right now. Odd to say the least

I see they covered the usual suspects. Would fit right in on a Travel Channel episode about OKC from 2009.

Yes, thanks. Recorded it and just watched.

Mainly focused on the Stockyards, Cattleman's, and Juniors. They did talk to the manager of Jones Assembly but didn't really show that super cool space.

IMO, didn't paint our city in a very favorable light. Cows, steaks, and old people smoking cigars inside a restaurant. All of that looked like we were still living in the 70s.That is very unfortunate. Welcome to the SEC, indeed.

Who is the usual target audience of the show? How have they covered other cities? Maybe this is just the kind of thing they want to highlight for the kind of audience they're catering to.

That is too bad. I haven't watched a lot of them but the ones I have typically focus on the old school under the radar people and places that have been around forever and have a connection to the south, but typically with a pretty heavy overlay of the culture and history of the place. I haven't gotten to watch the episode yet, but that doesn't completely surprise me. Though places like Florence's, the Asian District, onion burgers (though I realize this, historically, doesn't originate in OKC), etc. would have been candidates for inclusion. My understanding is that they're starting this season with OKC and Austin to welcome OU and UT to the SEC.

And FWIW the show is EP'ed by Wright Thompson (one of our best modern American writers - if you haven't read his stuff, go ahead and do so whether it's sports or otherwise) and hosted/written by John T. Edge, a four-time James Beard winner. So they definitely know their stuff. I imagine they have their formula for the show and can only fit so much in the time allowed.

I would guess it is targeted to people who will be visiting from places like Oxford, MS or Starkville, MS or Auburn, AL.

Season 10 of Bizarre Foods: Delicious Destinations has a good, fair episode on OKC which is a few years old now, but isn't too cliche. I think the only place you can find that show (which I LOVE) is on the Cooking Channel. If you like travel with an overlay of food history and culture, then this show is a great 22 minute diversion.

As others have pointed out, I’m sure it really is as simple as trying to connect Oklahoma City and Oklahoma to the south - a region that relishes in hard work, unhealthy food, and traditional culture - the things most of us dislike about the city are actually going to be what makes it acceptable to southerners. The city isn’t being advertised to New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago as much as it’s being advertised to Tuscaloosa, Lexington, and Baton Rouge.

As others have pointed out, I’m sure it really is as simple as trying to connect Oklahoma City and Oklahoma to the south - a region that relishes in hard work, unhealthy food, and traditional culture - the things most of us dislike about the city are actually going to be what makes it acceptable to southerners. The city isn’t being advertised to New York, Los Angeles, or Chicago as much as it’s being advertised to Tuscaloosa, Lexington, and Baton Rouge.

We dislike "hard work"?

Yes, thanks. Recorded it and just watched.

Mainly focused on the Stockyards, Cattleman's, and Juniors. They did talk to the manager of Jones Assembly but didn't really show that super cool space.

IMO, didn't paint our city in a very favorable light. Cows, steaks, and old people smoking cigars inside a restaurant. All of that looked like we were still living in the 70s.

That is interesting to see your take, I felt a little differently about it. I had never watched this show before, and had some time before the OKC episode, so I watched the ones they did on St. Augustine and Dublin, GA. It seemed to me they chose places that had been around a really long time, that hadn't changed, and were Southern themed. At the end of the Dublin episode they featured a restaurant that gave jobs to women vying for a second chance in life. It was meant to be a feel good story, but at the same time talking about people struggling with drug addiction. Part of me was mortified that that could also be part of our episode, and the optics that places.

So having watched those episodes I was nervously excited. The fact that there wasn't anything drug related in the episode for OKC was a sigh of relief. I must admit when they first started showing Juniors I was surprised. Watching it all the way through though, and in comparison to other episodes, I think it's fitting for what they are going for. I like that they showed Cattleman's because even though it's not the fanciest steakhouse, it is unique and has a cool story, in a uniquely cool area IMO. When I'm showing out of towners our city this is absolutely one of the areas on my short list.

I'm not familiar with the Jones Assembly other than where it is. It's possible this is more unique than I'm aware and if so a bummer to your point they didn't show more of it.

I would have liked for them to show more of Bricktown and even downtown than they did, but that's about my only complaint. I enjoyed the show.

I recently had a guest come to OKC for the first time ever. They live in Dallas. I took them to First National/LDS and Jones. They were mind blown that OKC has such cool spots. They said Dallas has nothing to compare to First National.

We dislike "hard work"?

…what? No. That was a short list of what broadly appeals to southerners.

I lived in Dallas for 23 years moved back to western OK in 2010 to care for my parents. Moved to the city in 2020 and my friends from Dallas love coming to OKC. The Oak will be game changer for entertaining out of town guest. And lake Hefner was a favorite place for them as well.

As mentioned upthread, it is a Wright Thompson production. And it fits perfectly in his "niche" in the ESPN universe.

Nice mention for OKC and Oklahoma. Not a lot of substance to the entire article but interesting read.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/25-us-most-underrated-destinations/index.html

Nice mention for OKC and Oklahoma. Not a lot of substance to the entire article but interesting read.

https://www.cnn.com/travel/25-us-most-underrated-destinations/index.html

It was interesting, thanks!

A Varied Picture: While downtown office use has declined, some metro areas fare better than others (https://www.kansascityfed.org/ten/a-varied-picture-while-downtown-office-use-has-declined-some-metro-areas-fare-better-than-others/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjuL4gKJwV0

Deleted

Little good press

https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/best-places-to-retire/articles/10-most-affordable-places-to-retire

Little good press

https://realestate.usnews.com/real-estate/best-places-to-retire/articles/10-most-affordable-places-to-retire

It’s only affordable because no one wants to move here and everyone thinks we suck!

…Did I do it right?

This is directed more at the state as a whole, but interesting that this shows Oklahoma being one of the top states people are moving from. Maybe this is the new trend, but seems like during covid years we were the opposite.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/map-shows-states-people-are-flocking-to-and-the-ones-they-re-fleeing/ar-AA1y4D9G

The 2030 census is going to be very interesting.

It’s only affordable because no one wants to move here and everyone thinks we suck!

…Did I do it right?
I mean, that’s usually the case. Places that are sought after and where people wanna be or not cheap. Places were a lot of people don’t want to be tend to be cheaper. There is truth to this.

This is directed more at the state as a whole, but interesting that this shows Oklahoma being one of the top states people are moving from. Maybe this is the new trend, but seems like during covid years we were the opposite.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/map-shows-states-people-are-flocking-to-and-the-ones-they-re-fleeing/ar-AA1y4D9G

Fascinating because this random U-Haul study says the opposite: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-haul-growth-states-2024-110500162.html

I'd wait on census estimates before trusting any of these "studies."

Fascinating because this random U-Haul study says the opposite: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/u-haul-growth-states-2024-110500162.html

I'd wait on census estimates before trusting any of these "studies."

the msn link is total garbage ..
The findings of the study also reveal that the average cost of moving in the United States is $400

um no

Maybe people moving to Oklahoma use U-Haul more than "Hire a Helper". lol

This is directed more at the state as a whole, but interesting that this shows Oklahoma being one of the top states people are moving from. Maybe this is the new trend, but seems like during covid years we were the opposite.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/map-shows-states-people-are-flocking-to-and-the-ones-they-re-fleeing/ar-AA1y4D9G

That doesn't make any sense. If true, then how is our population suddenly growing like it is? The census estimate for the past year is us growing by like 40k people.

U-Haul Growth States of 2024, Oklahoma jumped from 41 to 11th. The largest jump of any state.
https://www.uhaul.com/Articles/About/U-Haul-Growth-States-Of-2024-South-Carolina-Tops-List-for-First-Time-33083/

That doesn't make any sense. If true, then how is our population suddenly growing like it is? The census estimate for the past year is us growing by like 40k people.

i don't by it at all. the MSN story only links to newsweek and the newsweek article doesn't say any of the things the MSN article is saying, and also doesn't link to the US census study.

UPDATE: and clicking through all of the different links in newsweek show that each article is a different study and they are trying to use them as though they are all the same. like their list of places "people are moving" is from a redfin study, that actually asked the question where people "wanted" to move... not that they were moving there. This is all just bad journalism to create a clickbait article

i don't by it at all. the MSN story only links to newsweek and the newsweek article doesn't say any of the things the MSN article is saying, and also doesn't link to the US census study.

UPDATE: and clicking through all of the different links in newsweek show that each article is a different study and they are trying to use them as though they are all the same. like their list of places "people are moving" is from a redfin study, that actually asked the question where people "wanted" to move... not that they were moving there. This is all just bad journalism to create a clickbait article

Back in the day Newsweek was a reputable magazine. These days, not so much.

This link paints a more accurate picture
https://kfor.com/news/local/118000-people-moved-to-oklahoma-last-year-where-did-they-come-from/

U-haul? How about we consult the United States Bureau of the Census. Rumor has it they’re pretty good at demographics. According to them, as of July 1, 2024 we have grown 3.4% since April 1, 2020. The national average in the same timeframe is 2.6%. If the growth rate continues, that puts us in the neighborhood of 8% by 2030.

19475

Back in the day Newsweek was a reputable magazine. These days, not so much.

I mean that’s a take. But then again some people get all their info Joe Rogan and YouTube rants coming from a pick up truck cab.

Here is a take. Polls found in clickbait on SM are probably garbage. The Census does a pretty good job every ten years in gonna post up on that info. And it looks like the net migration from wanted states is in the low thousands. Not like my step mother says. She thinks there is a traffic jam on the 40 from here Hollywood of people trying to get out. Unfortunately Texas is donating far more of their citizens. Build the wall. Just build it about 90 miles south of here along the river

I mean that’s a take. But then again some people get all their info Joe Rogan and YouTube rants coming from a pick up truck cab.

Very true, but does that make Newsweek more reputable?

https://www.southernliving.com/oklahoma-city-neighborhood-guide-8786085