Well, pissing and moaning on a board that largely agrees with you does no good.

Agree, but I no longer live in the State to attend school board meetings or more importantly VOTE for leadership or even speak my mind to congressional reps. I do those things where I live. Can't a person love where they come from and want it to be better?

Can't a person love where they come from and want it to be better?

If your goal is to make Oklahoma better with your posts then I would say you need to reassess your strategy.

+1. There is rarely an entry from dcsooner that isn't negative. It goes beyond simply presenting another viewpoint, it's representative of several on here whose comments usually consist of -
link to negative info about the state or the city
supporting negative comment from the poster
closing statement inluding "typical Oklahoma" such and such presented in a negative tone

I have lived in OK only a couple of months out of tbe last 25 years before I had to retun to being out of state. We are all aware of:
poor state government
poor teacher pay
health care problems (same as 49 other states)
employment concentrated in oil and gas
lots of imagined negatives that pretty much exist in many/most other states

You all should thank God OK has oil and gas and how to maximize it. How can you encourage other types of businesses to come to OK? How can you all work to counter the half-wits who seem to control the capitol? I think OKs greatest loss of the last 50 years was Aubrey McClendon. The man may not have been totally kosher but he was like Robin Hood..... he gave money to start up multiple outside businesses, he gave money for the arena, he gave for the boathouse and river improvements, and much more. Like him or not, he had vision and he thought outside the box. The city needs more like him who promote and build.

Instead of rehashing the same bitch and moan, try thinking about the problem and work on how to fix it.

Agree, but I no longer live in the State to attend school board meetings or more importantly VOTE for leadership or even speak my mind to congressional reps. I do those things where I live. Can't a person love where they come from and want it to be better?

Yes.

nm

You all should thank God OK has oil and gas and how to maximize it. How can you encourage other types of businesses to come to OK? How can you all work to counter the half-wits who seem to control the capitol? I think OKs greatest loss of the last 50 years was Aubrey McClendon. The man may not have been totally kosher but he was like Robin Hood..... he gave money to start up multiple outside businesses, he gave money for the arena, he gave for the boathouse and river improvements, and much more. Like him or not, he had vision and he thought outside the box. The city needs more like him who promote and build.

And George Kaiser in Tulsa

State largest papers report layoffs among the state's largest employers including government.

Our state's economic downturn has certainly contributed to the possibility that OKC may have peaked in population. You may see a slight increase over the last 10 years come 2020. Just feel as though we haven't made population gains; however don't think that we've lost population either.

The U.S. Census Bureau estimates a 10% increase in population within the city limits of OKC since 2010. There is quite a bit of silly speculation in this thread. The city and metro are growing, and will continue to do so. Is there a boom in population? No, but that is not always good on every level anyway. Ask Austin. Or Portland.

The traffic doesn't really hint at OKC losing population.

^ neither does the development that has been added/supported.

Think about how awesome OKC has gotten/is getting compared to when the population really WAS smaller/economy less diverse. .... remember the very true line of "Tulsa gets the retail first in the state?" ... no longer the case now.

43. Oklahoma
> Pct. of adults with at least a bachelor’s degree: 24.6%
> Pct. of adults with at least a high school diploma: 87.3%
> 2015 median household income: $48,568 (12th lowest)
> Median earnings for bachelor degree holders: $42,195 (7th lowest)

Goes to show how rigorous these city rankings lists are. The CNBC link that ranks OKC as #1 states the average household income to be $70k+.

The U.S. Census Bureau estimates a 10% increase in population within the city limits of OKC since 2010. There is quite a bit of silly speculation in this thread. The city and metro are growing, and will continue to do so. Is there a boom in population? No, but that is not always good on every level anyway. Ask Austin. Or Portland.

Thank you. The idea that we are somehow losing population is ludicrous.

The thought process appears to be “I hate Oklahoma, so others must hate Oklahoma, so people must be leaving Oklahoma.” Meanwhile the stats have the state and city showing pretty average population growth compared to the rest of the country and other major cities respectively.

Goes to show how rigorous these city rankings lists are. The CNBC link that ranks OKC as #1 states the average household income to be $70k+.

Actually it goes to show how cherry-picking the data can show anything you want it to show. The wikipedia entry for OKC has two different numbers for median income, depending on if you look at it as a household or as a family. It also says these numbers are now eight years old.

FWIW, it also says "Oklahoma City has experienced significant population increases since the late 1990s. Since the official Census in 2000, Oklahoma City has grown 25 percent (a 125,214 raw increase) according to the Bureau estimates. The 2016 estimate of 638,367 is the largest population Oklahoma City has ever recorded. It is the first city in the state to record a population greater than 600,000 residents. It is also the first city in the Great Plains region to record a population greater than 600,000 residents. It is the largest municipal population of the Great Plains region (Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota).", so there's something to chew on if you're one of the 'losing population' people.

Back to the point, I'm not sure where CNBC got their numbers but I can't verify them. With the caveat that any idiot can edit wikipedia, looking at another page there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oklahoma_locations_by_per_capita_income) doesn't show anywhere in the entire state at 70K+, when viewed by county, and shows only two locations in the state at 70K+ when looking per capita. While both are in the metro area, trying to hold up Nichols Hills as representative of OKC in general is laughable at best, complete and total horsecrap at worst. And as for Lake Aluma, pure unadulterated horsecrap any way you look at it. There are more people living on my STREET, let alone subdivision.

tl;dr: Like I said, you can spin the numbers to say anything.

Actually it goes to show how cherry-picking the data can show anything you want it to show. The wikipedia entry for OKC has two different numbers for median income, depending on if you look at it as a household or as a family. It also says these numbers are now eight years old.

FWIW, it also says "Oklahoma City has experienced significant population increases since the late 1990s. Since the official Census in 2000, Oklahoma City has grown 25 percent (a 125,214 raw increase) according to the Bureau estimates. The 2016 estimate of 638,367 is the largest population Oklahoma City has ever recorded. It is the first city in the state to record a population greater than 600,000 residents. It is also the first city in the Great Plains region to record a population greater than 600,000 residents. It is the largest municipal population of the Great Plains region (Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota).", so there's something to chew on if you're one of the 'losing population' people.

Back to the point, I'm not sure where CNBC got their numbers but I can't verify them. With the caveat that any idiot can edit wikipedia, looking at another page there (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Oklahoma_locations_by_per_capita_income) doesn't show anywhere in the entire state at 70K+, when viewed by county, and shows only two locations in the state at 70K+ when looking per capita. While both are in the metro area, trying to hold up Nichols Hills as representative of OKC in general is laughable at best, complete and total horsecrap at worst. And as for Lake Aluma, pure unadulterated horsecrap any way you look at it. There are more people living on my STREET, let alone subdivision.

tl;dr: Like I said, you can spin the numbers to say anything.

That's what I'm confused about.. the median numbers in the CNBC article are household incomes. With 2 people earning $36k/year in a household, you've got the cited $72k. Doesn't seem too far fetched, which makes me wonder why other OKC household incomes figures are much lower.

Goes to show how rigorous these city rankings lists are. The CNBC link that ranks OKC as #1 states the average household income to be $70k+.

One is median, the other is average.

I can't imagine either would accurately be $70k+.

I can't imagine either would accurately be $70k+.

According to this the average household income is over $70k. But I can't speak to the accuracy.

https://www.point2homes.com/US/Neighborhood/OK/Oklahoma-City-Demographics.html

According to the 2016 Census estimates, OKC's average household income is $72,385 (which is what's listed in the CNBC article) and average family income is $86,725, while the median household income is $52,915 and the median family income is $65,791.

Thank you. The idea that we are somehow losing population is ludicrous.

The thought process appears to be “I hate Oklahoma, so others must hate Oklahoma, so people must be leaving Oklahoma.” Meanwhile the stats have the state and city showing pretty average population growth compared to the rest of the country and other major cities respectively.

I don't think OKC is losing population but the state might be. The annual growth statewide was abysmal last year. I think OKC is probably growing moderately, Tulsa is stagnant, and rural Oklahoma is losing population.

I don't think OKC is losing population but the state might be. The annual growth statewide was abysmal last year. I think OKC is probably growing moderately, Tulsa is stagnant, and rural Oklahoma is losing population.

Estimates indicate the slowdown in population growth will continue and in 2020 Oklahoma will have 3,959,835.
http://worldpopulationreview.com/states/oklahoma-population/

Much of rural Oklahoma losing population is an old story.

Every state has a rural population that's decreasing. It's not just an Oklahoma thing

^^^^^^
Exactly.

A report from the U. S. Dept. of Labor showed 'Oklahoma's total civilian labor force gained in size from Dec. 2016 to Dec. 2017 by around 25,000. Of the figures from 4 cities listed, Enid, Lawton, Oklahoma City and Tulsa, all also grew a bigger labor force. So don't think you can find a sign of a population loss in Oklahoma there. Hopefully, the latest report, which should come out in a few days will continue upward.

Oklahoma could be doing less than good. Some states had a drop in the labor force, such as Alabama, Kansas, Missouri, and Nebraska.

It's weird that Nebraska would see a drop in the labor force with how Lincoln and Omaha are growing. There are three states to watch for declines in population and labor force, New York, California, and Illinois. All three of those states are starting to see signs of more outflow than inflow population. California especially. People from California have been moving to Arizona, Idaho, and Texas.

It's weird that Nebraska would see a drop in the labor force with how Lincoln and Omaha are growing. There are three states to watch for declines in population and labor force, New York, California, and Illinois. All three of those states are starting to see signs of more outflow than inflow population. California especially. People from California have been moving to Arizona, Idaho, and Texas.

Nearly every state in the country will start to see a drop in the labor force and for a long time. The massive generation of baby boomers are retiring, and birth and immigration rates are low. Many parts of Europe are going this most acutely Germany.

Or maybe it's to provide contrast to the ones who seemingly ignore the negatives like they don't exist. You're one of the worst offenders on this and reasons why you take the prize of being the only poster on here in my ignore list.

Did you just quote me and also tell me I’m on the ignore list?

By the way, the idea that posters on this board ignore problems in OKC and Oklahoma is just not true. There is absolutely no need to infuse the board with negativity in the aims of supposedly balancing things out. There's just a real difference between negative platitudes, overgeneralizations, tired stereotypes, or just obvious, widely understood issues and the type of constructive discussion that is actually helpful for addressing problems. Saying that OKC has to diversity its economy for the millionth time with adding any evidence or complaining about the Oklahoma legislature in general isn't useful.

IMO apathy is one of the reasons Oklahoma remains educationally, economically, and culturally deficient. Citizens accept poor Government even when outcomes cry for change, below average is acceptable to citizens across multiple measures of growth and prosperity. Point out the metrics and one is vilified. In my case give me something to celebrate and I will be the first to do so, but, when the State is fiscally unsound and the largest cities public school system is in shambles, politicians are criminal, and educational achievement is at the bottom, I will remain hopeful for transformational change in Oklahoma but not confident

It’s not apathy. I’m not apathetic, I do what I can.

It’s you and panda who don’t live here, but are always coming to the board to constantly tell the everyone how much OK sucks. You’re an outsider pointing out the obvious. Thanks, but it’s worthless. You don’t contribute to OK or the board in any meaningful way other than the gift of wisdom that everyone alreadys knows. “We need more economic diversification!!!” yeah thanks. Why don’t you go have a beer at Anthem? Oh you don’t live here. So not only do you point out problems, you aren’t even helpful towards fixing them. Any moron with half a brain can point out what you point out.

I do my part to help make this a great place to live, you just relentless spew negativity from afar that helps nothing.

It’s not apathy. I’m not apathetic, I do what I can.

It’s you and panda who don’t live here, but are always coming to the board to constantly tell the everyone how much OK sucks. You’re an outsider pointing out the obvious. Thanks, but it’s worthless. You don’t contribute to OK or the board in any meaningful way other than the gift of wisdom that everyone alreadys knows. “We need more economic diversification!!!” yeah thanks. Why don’t you go have a beer at Anthem? Oh you don’t live here. So not only do you point out problems, you aren’t even helpful towards fixing them. Any moron with half a brain can point out what you point out.

I do my part to help make this a great place to live, you just relentless spew negativity from afar that helps nothing.

Thank you. Tough to hear criticism lobbed from afar when we all know the challenges we face. Maybe it shouldn't, but it rubs me the wrong way, too. Most people on this board, it seems, are doing the things they can to help improve things.

If it will make you feel better, I'll post while I'm in State this week visiting family. Lol Be happy to engage in constructive conversation over a meal with anyone on this board.

nm

nm

nm

I think there is a difference between somebody who may have lived here, left, and doesn't retain any connections here and just wants to bitch and people who have left (perhaps because of some of the problems we discuss here) yet still retain ties here because of family or otherwise so they visit often.

Everyone has different ways of communicating how they feel. Using a work example, there are those who see thye need for change and present constructive, positive suggestions and alternatives. Then there are others who, perhaps mean well. but dont understand how everything they say comes out as a complaint with no alternatives given. Eventually, it starts to rub people the wrong way.

I am one who left Oklahoma City 18 years ago and moved first to Tampa Florida, and then to DFW area. I have been away for quite some time, however I still have family ties and close friends living in OKC. I do care for Oklahoma's future and especially OKC, however in some ways DC Sooner and PluPan are spot on about may of Oklahoma's shortcomings. I have posted many times that the residents of OKC and the State will determine if Oklahoma will just be OK or if it will be able to excel and surprise all of us! The motto is true for "some" with Oklahoma "Ignorance is Bliss". Here is hoping that Oklahoma will change their negative image to some of their residents but to outsiders as well!

There is certainly room for improvement, but the point regarding the criticism is how it's done. Quality vs. quantity. Discussion vs. degradation.

I am one who left Oklahoma City 18 years ago and moved first to Tampa Florida, and then to DFW area. I have been away for quite some time, however I still have family ties and close friends living in OKC. I do care for Oklahoma's future and especially OKC, however in some ways DC Sooner and PluPan are spot on about may of Oklahoma's shortcomings. I have posted many times that the residents of OKC and the State will determine if Oklahoma will just be OK or if it will be able to excel and surprise all of us! The motto is true for "some" with Oklahoma "Ignorance is Bliss". Here is hoping that Oklahoma will change their negative image to some of their residents but to outsiders as well!

Do you think “ignorance is bliss” is a theme on *this* message board? Can you identify specific topics on which you believe this board has been ignorant and then dc or pluplan brought attention to this ignored issue? And I am not saying either poster has not contributed to the board, but I just haven’t seen them actually bring ignored issues to the board.

I am one who left Oklahoma City 18 years ago and moved first to Tampa Florida, and then to DFW area. I have been away for quite some time, however I still have family ties and close friends living in OKC. I do care for Oklahoma's future and especially OKC, however in some ways DC Sooner and PluPan are spot on about may of Oklahoma's shortcomings. I have posted many times that the residents of OKC and the State will determine if Oklahoma will just be OK or if it will be able to excel and surprise all of us! The motto is true for "some" with Oklahoma "Ignorance is Bliss". Here is hoping that Oklahoma will change their negative image to some of their residents but to outsiders as well!

I think the majority of residents think Oklahoma is OK and that will be confirmed, if Oklahoma elects another Republican for governor in November. So, once again, let's bring back the Oklahoma is OK plates. They will be more visible than the current ones, which many people feel are not OK. The Oklahoma is OK plates were around for a good while. I just added a 1978 green and white one to my collection. But my favorite one will always be the one that signified OSU colors.

http://okie.world/1968oktagsmall.jpg

Do you think “ignorance is bliss” is a theme on *this* message board? Can you identify specific topics on which you believe this board has been ignorant and then dc or pluplan brought attention to this ignored issue? And I am not saying either poster has not contributed to the board, but I just haven’t seen them actually bring ignored issues to the board.

My general thoughts is that a lot of stuff people complain about aren't things the general population of OKC really cares much about. OKCTalk is not a representation of the vast majority of people who live in central Oklahoma. For instance, most people probably don't give second thought to how poorly Lower Bricktown was designed nor do they realize what a wasted potential it was. They just see it as a vast improvement over what used to be down there. Things like walkable urbanism aren't things they really know or care much about. Most people are probably satisfied with BOK Park Plaza and see it as an improvement over the old dilapidated buildings it replaced. As Bunty puts it, for most people Oklahoma is OK and that is good enough for them. For some people who want to see Oklahoma be more than OK and want to see it excel, that can be rather frustrating. This is especially true for people who have moved away and/or have lived in other cities that are significantly ahead of OKC. Moving away, even if it's just temporarily, can really give a person perspective.

My general thoughts is that a lot of stuff people complain about aren't things the general population of OKC really cares much about. OKCTalk is not a representation of the vast majority of people who live in central Oklahoma. For instance, most people probably don't give second thought to how poorly Lower Bricktown was designed nor do they realize what a wasted potential it was. They just see it as a vast improvement over what used to be down there. Things like walkable urbanism aren't things they really know or care much about. Most people are probably satisfied with BOK Park Plaza and see it as an improvement over the old dilapidated buildings it replaced. As Bunty puts it, for most people Oklahoma is OK and that is good enough for them. For some people who want to see Oklahoma be more than OK and want to see it excel, that can be rather frustrating. This is especially true for people who have moved away and/or have lived in other cities that are significantly ahead of OKC. Moving away, even if it's just temporarily, can really give a person perspective.

+!!!!!!!!!

My general thoughts is that a lot of stuff people complain about aren't things the general population of OKC really cares much about. OKCTalk is not a representation of the vast majority of people who live in central Oklahoma. For instance, most people probably don't give second thought to how poorly Lower Bricktown was designed nor do they realize what a wasted potential it was. They just see it as a vast improvement over what used to be down there. Things like walkable urbanism aren't things they really know or care much about. Most people are probably satisfied with BOK Park Plaza and see it as an improvement over the old dilapidated buildings it replaced. As Bunty puts it, for most people Oklahoma is OK and that is good enough for them. For some people who want to see Oklahoma be more than OK and want to see it excel, that can be rather frustrating. This is especially true for people who have moved away and/or have lived in other cities that are significantly ahead of OKC. Moving away, even if it's just temporarily, can really give a person perspective.

While I agree with you, this just furthers Dan’s point from the post below that this board is far from ignorant to the major issues affecting OKC and Oklahoma as a whole and that the overly negative posts aren’t in anyway constructive. Also you don’t necessarily have to move away to have perspective, I think most of us here are pretty aware of what’s going on in other cities whether we’ve lived here for most of our lives or not.


By the way, the idea that posters on this board ignore problems in OKC and Oklahoma is just not true. There is absolutely no need to infuse the board with negativity in the aims of supposedly balancing things out. There's just a real difference between negative platitudes, overgeneralizations, tired stereotypes, or just obvious, widely understood issues and the type of constructive discussion that is actually helpful for addressing problems. Saying that OKC has to diversity its economy for the millionth time with adding any evidence or complaining about the Oklahoma legislature in general isn't useful.

Listed at one of the 20 Best Places to Travel in 2018

http://time.com/money/page/best-places-to-travel-2018/

Another fun little article from Dallas:

https://www.dmagazine.com/arts-entertainment/2018/03/how-to-spend-a-weekend-in-oklahoma-city-which-is-surprisingly-punk/

Another fun little article from Dallas:

https://www.dmagazine.com/arts-entertainment/2018/03/how-to-spend-a-weekend-in-oklahoma-city-which-is-surprisingly-punk/

Don’t let those articles fool you though. The legislature, schools, unsubstantiated lack of economic diversification and overly religious people all suck rendering the city and state with no redeeming value...why would anyone want to come here. :tongue:

While I agree with you, this just furthers Dan’s point from the post below that this board is far from ignorant to the major issues affecting OKC and Oklahoma as a whole and that the overly negative posts aren’t in anyway constructive. Also you don’t necessarily have to move away to have perspective, I think most of us here are pretty aware of what’s going on in other cities whether we’ve lived here for most of our lives or not.

There are many posters here on the opposite side, who gloss over issues or see things as sunnier than they are. Some of them are very influential posters. The two have to balance out. Personally, for all of the griping about negative posts, there's no real downside to keeping our shortcomings top of mind (other than "gosh! I'm tired of hearing that!"), whereas on the other hand, there is major downside to downplaying real problems.

As stated, PLENTY of OKC's general population is unengaged and apathetic on these issues. If this board is the most concerned populace, what good is it for us to downplay these things too?

There are many posters here on the opposite side, who gloss over issues or see things as sunnier than they are. Some of them are very influential posters. The two have to balance out. Personally, for all of the griping about negative posts, there's no real downside to keeping our shortcomings top of mind (other than "gosh! I'm tired of hearing that!"), whereas on the other hand, there is major downside to downplaying real problems.

As stated, PLENTY of OKC's general population is unengaged and apathetic on these issues. If this board is the most concerned populace, what good is it for us to downplay these things too?

Yes, there needs to be a balance. Unfortunately, those who are negative are ALL NEGATIVE! As if there is not 1 good thing about this city. There are problems, yes. And OKC should not ignore them. But it is not all doom and gloom, and death to all non-Christians, as some on here would want you to believe.

I don't have an issue with that. Some people are also all positive. The balance of the two paints an accurate picture, which is somewhere in between. We shouldn't be shouting down either side.

nm

Don’t let those articles fool you though. The legislature, schools, unsubstantiated lack of economic diversification and overly religious people all suck rendering the city and state with no redeeming value...why would anyone want to come here. :tongue:

Why would anyone want to come here? Tongue in cheek or not, to come and see to believe for themselves the weird stores that come out of Oklahoma. Remember the judge who got in trouble for masturbating while holding court? Or the woman who sat nearly nude at the airport to protest security regulations? It's not just for the insane politics at the State Capitol.

14502

https://www.esquire.com/news-politics/news/a40729/year-in-florida-man-2015/

Darn, Urbanized beat me to it. I was going to say if you want to see weird crap, Oklahoma can't hold a candle to California, Austin, and Florida. Especially Florida. I mean, Austin is weird, and they are proud of it. California is in their own little universe (and again, proud of it). But Florida...Florida takes it to a whole new level. It's like if weird were pastries, Austin is a cronut, California is a fruitcake, but Florida is one of those cakes with pies baked into it, and each pie has a cupcake inside it. Inside each cupcake is a jelly bean, cause Florida just doesn't know when or HOW to turn it off.

I just have to laugh at the people who seem to enjoy pointing out embarrassing news stories or politics in Oklahoma. Anybody who travels knows that every state has embarrassing stories and laws. Like the mad pooper stories in Colorado and Connecticut, the woman in California who shot a gun at noisy kids, a naked ATV rider in KC, the California bill that seeks to limit cow flatulence, homeless people defecating on the streets in San Francisco, etc. I have an entrepreneur friend in Seattle who constantly rails against the anti-business laws there, and Oklahoma's finances are in great shape compared to Illinois, where they are slashing basic services and talking about defaulting on public pensions. Oklahoma doesn't have a monopoly on crazy. Every state has crazy and I actually find Oklahoma to be tame compared to some states.

For me personally, the two things that make me really want to consider leaving Oklahoma is the authoritarian religious conservatism and the weather/scenery. The latter is what it is and it isn't changing. I think the city could do a better job at landscaping/beatification to make it more visually appealing (like DFW does) but overall this just isn't a great climate. That's part of why OKC is so cheap compared to cities in locations that people find more desirable. The big one for me is the politics. The conservative authoritarian mindset isn't as prevalent among the younger generation but the state really needs a generational change in the statehouse before there will be any progress on this issue. For a state with politicians that scream "small government" this state sure is big on stupid religiously-based legislation. The "crazy stories" I really care about are the ones that involve the legislature trying to take away people's rights in the name of religion.

Aside from these issues, I think OKC has come a long ways in recent years in terms of things to do compared to just a few years ago.

For me personally, the two things that make me really want to consider leaving Oklahoma is the authoritarian religious conservatism and the weather/scenery. The latter is what it is and it isn't changing. I think the city could do a better job at landscaping/beatification to make it more visually appealing (like DFW does) but overall this just isn't a great climate. That's part of why OKC is so cheap compared to cities in locations that people find more desirable. The big one for me is the politics. The conservative authoritarian mindset isn't as prevalent among the younger generation but the state really needs a generational change in the statehouse before there will be any progress on this issue. For a state with politicians that scream "small government" this state sure is big on stupid religiously-based legislation. The "crazy stories" I really care about are the ones that involve the legislature trying to take away people's rights in the name of religion.

Aside from these issues, I think OKC has come a long ways in recent years in terms of things to do compared to just a few years ago.
You seem to have an irrational fear of the weather here. And as numerous other people have pointed out, we're far from the only state suffering through some conservative bull**** politics.

You seem to have an irrational fear of the weather here.

Along with posting the same complaints about Oklahoma over and over (and over) again.

For me personally, the two things that make me really want to consider leaving Oklahoma is the authoritarian religious conservatism and the weather/scenery. The latter is what it is and it isn't changing. I think the city could do a better job at landscaping/beatification to make it more visually appealing (like DFW does) but overall this just isn't a great climate. That's part of why OKC is so cheap compared to cities in locations that people find more desirable. The big one for me is the politics. The conservative authoritarian mindset isn't as prevalent among the younger generation but the state really needs a generational change in the statehouse before there will be any progress on this issue. For a state with politicians that scream "small government" this state sure is big on stupid religiously-based legislation. The "crazy stories" I really care about are the ones that involve the legislature trying to take away people's rights in the name of religion.

Aside from these issues, I think OKC has come a long ways in recent years in terms of things to do compared to just a few years ago.

OKC just isn't, and never has been it seems, a good fit for you, bchris. I feel for you and really hope you can find your right place. We all know your story here because it has been the same for five years or so. We all don't know what to do for you, buddy. You have to help yourself. Making the best of the situation without complaint and fear will help you enormously--it' requires a shift in thinking. Since religion isn't your thing, seek help from a professional for your challenges. I truly hope you find a solution since it seems like you are always searching. A very wise person said to me once "Your thinking determines your experience. Period." I have lived by that!

I agree that OKC could do well by sprucing itself up, however the climate and weather is almost identical to Dallas.

Oklahoma as a whole has really diverse topography and things to do/see pertaining to scenery. Wichita Mts, Little Sahara, Great Salt Plains, Ouachita Mts, Grand Lake, etc. aren't too far away from OKC. Could they be marketed better? Maybe, but it's not like they don't exist.

I agree that OKC could do well by sprucing itself up
I do agree with you and bchris on this - OKC needs beautification terribly.

For me personally, the two things that make me really want to consider leaving Oklahoma is the authoritarian religious conservatism and the weather/scenery. The latter is what it is and it isn't changing... The conservative authoritarian mindset isn't as prevalent among the younger generation but the state really needs a generational change in the statehouse before there will be any progress on this issue. For a state with politicians that scream "small government" this state sure is big on stupid religiously-based legislation. The "crazy stories" I really care about are the ones that involve the legislature trying to take away people's rights in the name of religion.

I just want to say that I grew up my entire life in Oklahoma and, this is just my experience, but I've never felt repressed by the religious zeal. Having said that, I am not gay or transgender so I am privileged not to be oppressed directly and I would understand how the politics seep into everyday life for LGBTQ people. I am pissed when state legislators try to impose their own religious beliefs on others, but that happens in a lot of states, including Texas which you so often praise. In my personal life, I have almost no encounters or problems on this issue. I guess this is because my family and friends don't fall into this camp. I come to OKC all the time, hang out with lots of different people, and I can't remember the last time I even encountered a problem related to this issue. So, I guess my question is, are family and friends bringing these issues into your life or is it other people in the community?