View Full Version : The Joy of Metals--Molten Lead and Mercury



jmarkross
10-26-2010, 09:34 AM
I suspect male children are no longer able to dabble in the Periodic Table anymore studying and melting lead and exploring the mysteries of mercury...

flintysooner
10-26-2010, 09:49 AM
Yes, I loved both Pb and Hg. I had quite a little collection of Mercury at one time because of those thermometers "accidentally" breaking.

Also loved to make Nitrogen Iodide.

jmarkross
10-26-2010, 10:01 AM
Yes, I loved both Pb and Hg. I had quite a little collection of Mercury at one time because of those thermometers "accidentally" breaking.

Also loved to make Nitrogen Iodide.

Me as well. My Dad was in the electrical business--I got lots of mercury from big industrial switches. Used to beg the telephone cable guys for a chunk of lead-sheathed cable (in the old days when they had hundreds of copper wires in a lead cable) when I saw them working--they always pinched off a foot for a kid...took it home and melted it in a coffee can. Melting lead had it's downside...one learns quickly about burns that way!

papaOU
10-26-2010, 10:32 AM
My Grandfather could not bypass a chunk of lead. He made his own sinkers. Melt the lead and pour into a mold. Think I have the molds around some place.

I am sure you would be chastised for using them today. Toxic to fish and other wildlife. :elmer3:

jmarkross
10-26-2010, 10:49 AM
Yes, I loved both Pb and Hg. I had quite a little collection of Mercury at one time because of those thermometers "accidentally" breaking.

Also loved to make Nitrogen Iodide.

Never knew anything about Nitrogen Iodide--what is the skinny on that and it's uses/abuses...?

MadMonk
10-26-2010, 11:57 AM
I had a lot of fun with Mg in my day. Easily obtained in unused flash bulbs! (I wonder if they still make those?)

flintysooner
10-26-2010, 12:22 PM
Never knew anything about Nitrogen Iodide--what is the skinny on that and it's uses/abuses...?Fairly easily made contact explosive but quite dangerous for a young boy's experiments. Can't imagine what would have happened if the Internet had been available back then.

Here's a nice Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KlAf936E90

jmarkross
10-26-2010, 12:32 PM
Fairly easily made contact explosive but quite dangerous for a young boy's experiments. Can't imagine what would have happened if the Internet had been available back then.

Here's a nice Youtube:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2KlAf936E90

Good thing I never knew about this as a kid. I just spent hours disassembling fireworks to get my powder...amazing any of us are still alive today. I was always a big M-80 fan...and my uncle let me run his fireworks stand and paid me in product. That was the 1950's...when you could buy anything.

flintysooner
10-26-2010, 12:37 PM
Good thing I never knew about this as a kid. I just spent hours disassembling fireworks to get my powder...amazing any of us are still alive today. I was always a big M-80 fan...and my uncle let me run his fireworks stand and paid me in product. That was the 1950's...when you could buy anything.That's the truth. I was telling my wife and daughter not so long ago about making the nitrogen iodide and soaking little pieces of wood and then blowing them up and some of the other stuff I blew up. They were both astonished and allowed as how they had neither one ever wanted to blow anything up. I told them that apparently was a gender difference because I think all boys I knew wanted to blow stuff up.

jmarkross
10-26-2010, 12:46 PM
That's the truth. I was telling my wife and daughter not so long ago about making the nitrogen iodide and soaking little pieces of wood and then blowing them up and some of the other stuff I blew up. They were both astonished and allowed as how they had neither one ever wanted to blow anything up. I told them that apparently was a gender difference because I think all boys I knew wanted to blow stuff up.

Indeed. The power thing is a real difference in the sexes regarding fireworks. And, of course, making significant amounts of noise is always appealing...I have enormous respect for women who have raised boys--and--it gives them a real keyhole to look into the male psyche as it is forming...remember throwing a bag of "cracker balls" into the crowded hallways between classes in high school?...such joy!

Generals64
10-26-2010, 03:08 PM
Indeed. The power thing is a real difference in the sexes regarding fireworks. And, of course, making significant amounts of noise is always appealing...I have enormous respect for women who have raised boys--and--it gives them a real keyhole to look into the male psyche as it is forming...remember throwing a bag of "cracker balls" into the crowded hallways between classes in high school?...such joy!

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I owned a feed/seed and Fertilizer store in Central Texas for quite some time....Fascinating what Farmers would have and would build with Nitrogen fertilizer. We had a large development company from Dallas ask if we could do some maintenance work for them...Seemed money was not the problem....City stupidity was the problem.....The project manager called and said he would meet us there one morning ...he wanted to try something...He gets out of the Cadillac with his $29.95 cowboy boots, his Wal-Mart Cowboy hat...A zippo lighter and a huge stick of Dynamite...Yep, the real stuff...Not a big Cherry bomb a big Acme/Wylie Coyote toy...lights it and throws it and yells run.....Didn't really have to yell we were already out of there....he thought it was funny.....Sheriff didn't...we wanted to keep the maintenance job so we reminded the Sheriff of an incident of his past and he (cursing all the way....something about extortion) let the guy go....Now the good part....He had a case of Dynamite and a box of fuses and blasting caps (all together) in the trunk of his Car.......We had a "Real" BUBBA at the time...was his real name too....I let him sort the items while we were working in another pasture.... then we stored the items very carefully until the guy showed up that knew what he was doing.....Dynamite is loud......So is Nitrogen fertilizer put in a PVC 2" pipe ... it will blow up tree stumps....and Federal buildings.....

semisimple
10-29-2010, 01:14 AM
I get to play with the elements on a daily basis and I've had the pleasure of working with many of them at some point.

I've got several kilograms of lead shot and a couple kilograms of mercury sitting around the lab. Not sure what people are using the lead for, but we still use mercury gas bubblers for chemical reactions. Also used mercury compounds in organic synthesis (for hydration reactions).

Gallium is a fun alternative to mercury. Melts in your hand and is non-toxic.

I once worked on the synthesis of lanthanide alkoxides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkoxide)--compounds of rare (or otherwise esoteric) metals such as erbium, europium, and ytterbium as precursors to make nanoparticles. Although none were as shock-sensitive, some of these compounds and reagents used to make them were far more hazardous than NI3...they would immediately erupt in a violent flame on exposure to air. At least with NI3, the explosion is mostly the harmless evolution of N2. Not much use for that compound of course since it's so unstable.

Speaking of explosive nitrogen compounds...unlike NI3, diazomethane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazomethane) is a useful laboratory reagent. BUT, you have to use special glassware because typical ground glass joints will cause it to explode. Anything with sharp edges will cause it to explode, as will heating it or exposing it to light. It (and its derivatives) are also highly toxic (http://www.canadaeast.com/front/article/666039).

Recently helped stage a demonstration for hand-made fireworks...ground up tens of grams of potassium perchlorate with sulfur, charcoal, various metal complexes (for color), maybe some potassium nitrate (depending on the metal)...put the mixture in a paper towel and lit it. Come to think of it, the mercury nitrate fireworks worked the best, giving off an intense blue/white flame...

It has limited chemistry but beryllium is probably my favorite metal--it's like an ideal aerospace material (stiff, strong, and 50% lighter than aluminum) but its Achilles' heel is its toxicity...the US had once stockpiled it seeing its strategic importance...

One of the best sites to get basic info about the elements is: http://www.periodicvideos.com/.

flintysooner
10-29-2010, 06:50 AM
I get to play with the elements on a daily basis and I've had the pleasure of working with many of them at some point.That's awesome!

Before I got to college I had some idea of a career in science that involved labs. I was quite surprised to learn that what I knew didn't exactly transfer easily into proficient laboratory technique. That was in the Organic lab. The lessons were repeated several times until I understood my own talents were somewhere out of the lab.

jmarkross
10-29-2010, 06:51 AM
I get to play with the elements on a daily basis and I've had the pleasure of working with many of them at some point.

I've got several kilograms of lead shot and a couple kilograms of mercury sitting around the lab. Not sure what people are using the lead for, but we still use mercury gas bubblers for chemical reactions. Also used mercury compounds in organic synthesis (for hydration reactions).

Gallium is a fun alternative to mercury. Melts in your hand and is non-toxic.

I once worked on the synthesis of lanthanide alkoxides (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alkoxide)--compounds of rare (or otherwise esoteric) metals such as erbium, europium, and ytterbium as precursors to make nanoparticles. Although none were as shock-sensitive, some of these compounds and reagents used to make them were far more hazardous than NI3...they would immediately erupt in a violent flame on exposure to air. At least with NI3, the explosion is mostly the harmless evolution of N2. Not much use for that compound of course since it's so unstable.

Speaking of explosive nitrogen compounds...unlike NI3, diazomethane (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazomethane) is a useful laboratory reagent. BUT, you have to use special glassware because typical ground glass joints will cause it to explode. Anything with sharp edges will cause it to explode, as will heating it or exposing it to light. It (and its derivatives) are also highly toxic (http://www.canadaeast.com/front/article/666039).

Recently helped stage a demonstration for hand-made fireworks...ground up tens of grams of potassium perchlorate with sulfur, charcoal, various metal complexes (for color), maybe some potassium nitrate (depending on the metal)...put the mixture in a paper towel and lit it. Come to think of it, the mercury nitrate fireworks worked the best, giving off an intense blue/white flame...

It has limited chemistry but beryllium is probably my favorite metal--it's like an ideal aerospace material (stiff, strong, and 50% lighter than aluminum) but its Achilles' heel is its toxicity...the US had once stockpiled it seeing its strategic importance...

One of the best sites to get basic info about the elements is: http://www.periodicvideos.com/.

Probably the first bit of "knowledge" I have gotten off these threads. Thanks for this info! Science is the best part of life...

Generals64
10-29-2010, 08:08 AM
Probably the first bit of "knowledge" I have gotten off these threads. Thanks for this info! Science is the best part of life...

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Whoa!!!! you guys went completely over my head I know that Carbide will burn you bad if you spit in your hand and drop a piece of it. And, sodium Chloride is good on eggs. But, I don't know what you are talking about.....maybe too much mercury in my younger days....the closest I have ever come to that kind of stuff was while in Texas I had a friend that was in the "clean-Up" department at Nasa and when the first moon-walk happened he dropped one of the astronauts boots and some moon dust fell off ( I know, yeah right) and he somehow gotit out of the building.....Young and stupid....and I got to hold the vial it was in....Whoopee....Good story but, I still question the use of Berillium and acid mixed with a component of Nitrogen and phosphate compounds....

semisimple
10-29-2010, 04:59 PM
I'm sure you guys have seen the famous reactions of the alkali metals with water, right? There's plenty of videos out there, and some are totally bunk (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m55kgyApYrY). Here's an honest one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uixxJtJPVXk

Check out this video from 1947 on the disposal of sodium. Incredible!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HY7mTCMvpEM

No videos to show, but surprisingly "inert" sounding metals can be a serious hazard when ground up. Some powdered metal alloys (e.g., Ni-Al) used as catalysts for reactions can spontaneously burst into spectacular flame if they are sifted through air. Even zinc powder has been known to start fires. When you give a metal lots of surface area, sometimes it just isn't the same old tame solid anymore...

Metal compounds can be far more dicey than simple metals or metal alloys, though. Just ask the lunatic grad student at Texas Tech who, back in January of this year, was grinding up nickel hydrazine perchlorate on a scale 100x that of what he was supposed to be working on when it exploded (http://pubs.acs.org/cen/science/88/8834sci1.html). He's finishing his dissertation with a few less fingers and one good eye now. He's truly lucky that he is able to finish it at all.

There is amazing power in chemistry--and some of these substances simply command your respect. Or else.

PennyQuilts
10-29-2010, 05:05 PM
I guess this is often a guy thing because it seems like all the men I know feel the same way and blew up things as kids - but we girls were oblivious. Husband still hordes his Mercury (god knows why but it has made several cross country moves) and has the periodic chart tacked above one his workbenches. Get him started on chemical reactions and he goes into some sort of religious experience.

semisimple
10-29-2010, 05:12 PM
That's awesome!

Before I got to college I had some idea of a career in science that involved labs. I was quite surprised to learn that what I knew didn't exactly transfer easily into proficient laboratory technique. That was in the Organic lab. The lessons were repeated several times until I understood my own talents were somewhere out of the lab.

It's good that you realized where your talents could be used best and put them to work. I was the opposite--I planned to do architecture in college but got drawn towards materials and chemistry out of my own curiosity. There's been times when I've regretted it, mainly because 99% of what you try fails and it is a challenge to stay motivated. I think many people who are first starting out in a hard science are surprised at what the work is actually like...that is, mostly frustrating...

semisimple
10-29-2010, 05:16 PM
I guess this is often a guy thing because it seems like all the men I know feel the same way and blew up things as kids - but we girls were oblivious.

I would say mostly so...although there are a fair number of women in materials and chemistry, and especially biology these days. You should see the class of graduating PhD's in electrical engineering...almost entirely male, and almost entirely Asian Indian...

flintysooner
10-29-2010, 05:33 PM
It's good that you realized where your talents could be used best and put them to work. I was the opposite--I planned to do architecture in college but got drawn towards materials and chemistry out of my own curiosity. There's been times when I've regretted it, mainly because 99% of what you try fails and it is a challenge to stay motivated. I think many people who are first starting out in a hard science are surprised at what the work is actually like...that is, mostly frustrating...You're so right. I was quite good with the theory and the mathematics. You can probably imagine my surprise that my own attempt to duplicate Galileo's Falling Bodies experiment returned the opposite result. At the time I thought that was an easy experiment. Probably the greatest lesson was renewed respect for those experimentalists on whose shoulders we all stood. Especially when we had such good equipment and environment and knowledge for our experiments.

But one day in the Physics lab there was this really early programmable calculator that was delivered to us. It fell to me to input a program to the thing to produce a least mean square algorithm which was then used to produce a plot of our data. I loved programming that thing and it changed the entire direction of my interest.

It really is all about finding those things that are interesting and exciting so that even repeated failure only feels like inconvenience.

jmarkross
10-30-2010, 07:42 AM
I guess this is often a guy thing because it seems like all the men I know feel the same way and blew up things as kids - but we girls were oblivious. Husband still hordes his Mercury (god knows why but it has made several cross country moves) and has the periodic chart tacked above one his workbenches. Get him started on chemical reactions and he goes into some sort of religious experience.

But--chemistry IS a religious experience! A woman should worry about men/boys who don't blow things up...or at least set a lot of fires...