4"You will spend 1/3 of your life at the fire station, protecting and helping people that really are pompous and ungracious."

Glad to know what you guys think of your "customers" and people paying the bill. Yes I am sure you deal with these types as do I in private business. But the overall attitude that we the "JQP" as you state are dumb-a$ ingrates seems to come across loud and clear on these posts...and then you guys act insulted that we think your PR abilities are truly lacking. Your distaste for the public is just apparent.

And, I think you totally underestimate what most of the private sector does in their job. I can't remember the last time I only worked 40 hrs in a week...and I get NO overtime pay. I miss events regularly. As I type this I am out of town and away from my family for the third straight weekend. I regularly have to spend nights away when I would rather be home. I also deal with customers who are ungrateful and who occasionally try to cheat me, verbally abuse me, etc. So to create this idyllic view of what life with your ungrateful and pompous JQP is like is laughable. Just as I don't live in your shoes, you don't live in ours or show respect for what most of the tax paying public goes through. My father spent 35 years working shift work in a refinery to pay taxes to pay your salaries too. He is elderly now and is totally appreciative of the services he now gets which he payed for for 40 years without using any of your services.

If you hate your job and despise your public so much as you apparently do, please quit your job. I would hate to think that with your attitude towards your subjects you would be working on anyone I love.

Sorry, you aren't the only one who can rant.

I hear ya Rover..I thought firefighters were hardcore...who knew they were so whiny?

My question is whether there are actually fewer firefighters, or if they just eliminated vacant positions?

Someone already answered but I will add, IIRC there were just over 100 total City positions (including Fire/Police cut and only 1 person actually lost their job (non public safety). The rest were vacant positions (retirement etc). Think the Mayor said recently that the City has over 4,000 employees.

Rover,

I have the utmost respect and gratitude for the majority of our public that we serve and LOVE going to work at the firehouse each shift. Even when disrespected in the most flagrant ways I remain composed and give only respect back because I remember whom I serve when i'm at work.

The pompous and ungrateful was directed at people just like you who forget that WE too are taxpaying citizens who happened to be employed by the city but can't pull a firetruck and personnel out of our butt when you demand it's time to. Prior proper planning is imperative or you will have piss poor performance. The vast majority of us are also gainfully employed at a second job in the Private Sector and endure the same highs and lows as you do everyday. When asked what needs to be done to improve efficiency and reduce redundancy you scoff and call us whiners but fail to realize that we are the Experts when it comes to Fire and EMS. I would like to imagine that you consider yourself an expert in whatever field you choose to work; therefore I might offer suggestions from an outsiders point of view but would not consider that I was an expert in your field. I'll trade a couple of work days with you anytime. Let me know where I need to be and the attire for the day. The offer for ride alongs within the fire department is also alway welcome and you can even sign up for the citizens fire academy if you want to learn more than just the firehouse life.

The weekends you choose out of town away from your family are your choice like the shift work I choose. I would assume that you are being paid for it and it's worth it or you too would quit. I too spend much time out of town teaching other firefighters how to do their job better. It doesn't pay much more than a handshake and a job well done, but to me it's worth it. It's part of the brotherhood of the fire service that you will never understand unless you've been a part of it.

Oh, and my parents both worked over 44 years (one blue collar, one white collar CFO of a major corp) without ever needing the services of the fire department and wonder how such educated people can be so blind and ignorant as to what is happening in front of them.

I hope you have a safe trip.

Martzmimic- thank you and yes there are policies and procedures.

Do you guys understand this is the reality MOST OF US have faced for the past three years? Staffing where I'm at is about half of what it was four years ago. Maybe it's time to ask hard questions: should there be consolidation of OCFD with The Village, Nichols Hills, Warr Acres and Bethany? Should there be a prioritization of when OCFD responds on medical calls? Should outlying rural fringe areas of OKC expect the same level of service as those who live in more developed areas of town? Should development in such out lying areas be forced to pay more for public safety? What is a reasonable amount to pay police and fire? Are benefits and pay out of whack?
I think you guys are heroes. I respect the work you do. The average person doesn't appreciate how hard you work. But can anyone involved say that any of this makes sense?

"The pompous and ungrateful was directed at people just like you"

You have no clue who I am or what I am like, but because I was offended by your oversimplified and gross assumptions and statements you label me. I happen to have two friends and a nephew who are firefighters and paramedics. I admire and respect the work they do and the dedication they have. But you cannot understand the PR gaffes you make repeatedly when you demean and insult the people you puport to serve. I have huge respect for firefighters regardless that you and others have none for us, your public.

I have plenty of issues with the people your group negotiates with too. I know there are many faults with the city, but it still doesn't make your group always right on every issue.

"John Q Taxpaying public- works an average of 40hrs a week x 1 years = 2080 hours a year. They are paid hour for hour for any OT worked. Most are mandated to take holidays off, and if they have built up leave time can take off for other family events. They have options to take off as their time allows and if times dictate they can pick up extra hours for a little extra cash" ....
You really don't know what's going on in the private sector in 2010, do you?

It sounds like he isn't aware that many of us are exempt and do not get paid for OT

My reply in bold.


Do you guys understand this is the reality MOST OF US have faced for the past three years? Yes we have been going thru it for almost 10 years now and working at the same hourly wage since 2008. Staffing where I'm at is about half of what it was four years ago. Your trade unfortunately has gone to the web. Maybe it's time to ask hard questions: should there be consolidation of OCFD with The Village, Nichols Hills, Warr Acres and Bethany? Yes IMO it should but the politicians of each municipality don't agree. Should there be a prioritization of when OCFD responds on medical calls? There already is but we still get sent on calls that a BRT is not needed. This will continue until Fire and EMS are one entity. Should outlying rural fringe areas of OKC expect the same level of service as those who live in more developed areas of town? Yes. Should development in such out lying areas be forced to pay more for public safety? No. What is a reasonable amount to pay police and fire? That's the twenty million dollar question, what are you willing to pay for adequate police and fire? Are benefits and pay out of whack? No, they are currently below the 10 city average of firefighters in comparable markets and have been for many years.
I think you guys are heroes. I respect the work you do. The average person doesn't appreciate how hard you work. But can anyone involved say that any of this makes sense?

We agree that it needs to be fixed. If you want to make it about money, then lets look at all the money the city politicians piss away on frivolities. Human beings dictate that the basic needs for survival are Food, shelter, safety. Once those needs are met people will begin to thrive and grow. We've been tightening our belts for over ten years and you think this just started?

Yes, I am aware of what's going on in the private sector, I still work in it. You choose to be salaried and open ended with how much abuse you are willing to take before moving on to another job. Kinda sounds like a reason to organize and form a UNION!!!! Oh wait, that's why they started in the first place, people got tired of taking it in the shorts from the company owners and politicians.

"The pompous and ungrateful was directed at people just like you"

You have no clue who I am or what I am like, but because I was offended by your oversimplified and gross assumptions and statements you label me. I happen to have two friends and a nephew who are firefighters and paramedics. I admire and respect the work they do and the dedication they have. But you cannot understand the PR gaffes you make repeatedly when you demean and insult the people you puport to serve. I have huge respect for firefighters regardless that you and others have none for us, your public.

I have plenty of issues with the people your group negotiates with too. I know there are many faults with the city, but it still doesn't make your group always right on every issue.

Never claimed to be right on every issue---Just the one about staffing! Fewer firefighters on the street, in the firehouse, on the apparatus makes OKC less safe than it was 10 years ago. I'm offended that you think you know our fights because you know a friend of a friend who is a firefighter or paramedic. When you grow a set of stones and take one of them up on an offer to ride along a few shifts and live in our world for awhile then I'll have a little more respect for the words you post for all to see. Our PR comes with every incident we respond to; over 80,000 by the end of the year and as I've said already in a different post, your opinions are the minority but you scream the loudest.

We thank you for the respect, it should be earned by the job being done and not the merely the position. If we have not served you well, tell us and we will work diligently to ensure that our service meets your expectations. We will sweat, bleed and die for you and your family even though you think we are overpaid whiners. We will continue to serve until they have whittled us down to nothingness and when there are none willing to serve maybe you'll look back and wish you could have stopped the madness of the self serving politicians that seek to tear us down.

Barnold, I'm not going to get into a debate over the pros and cons of unions. But a look at the newspaper industry will show the worst performing newspapers - the ones in bankruptcy or heading toward it - are all guild papers.

'I'm offended that you think you know our fights because you know a friend of a friend who is a firefighter or paramedic. When you grow a set of stones and take one of them up on an offer to ride along a few shifts and live in our world for awhile then I'll have a little more respect for the words you post for all to see. Our PR comes with every incident we respond to; over 80,000 by the end of the year and as I've said already in a different post, your opinions are the minority but you scream the loudest."

What are you a child? "grow a set of stones". Is this what this is about for you as a firefighter?? Who has the biggest "stones"? Continue to insult and wonder why there is little sympathy among the public for your concerns. You make it hard to have sympathy for your cause no matter how justified.

This thread is now drug down to the lowest common denominator.....we should support more firefighters because they think they can take us out and whip us.

Are there any PlayStations in the fire house? I don't have one at work.

'I'm offended that you think you know our fights because you know a friend of a friend who is a firefighter or paramedic. When you grow a set of stones and take one of them up on an offer to ride along a few shifts and live in our world for awhile then I'll have a little more respect for the words you post for all to see. Our PR comes with every incident we respond to; over 80,000 by the end of the year and as I've said already in a different post, your opinions are the minority but you scream the loudest."

What are you a child? "grow a set of stones". Is this what this is about for you as a firefighter?? Who has the biggest "stones"? Continue to insult and wonder why there is little sympathy among the public for your concerns. You make it hard to have sympathy for your cause no matter how justified.

This thread is now drug down to the lowest common denominator.....we should support more firefighters because they think they can take us out and whip us.

Statistics bear out that your job isn't actually that dangerous.

The bravado, etc. is pretty off putting.

Try being a lumberjack or a police officer.

Metro. You are so awesome! Now for some brevity! My favorite lawyer joke. Why don't sharks bite lawyers? Professional courtesy! Sadly as much as you guys would like to believe the world revolves around this message board, it does not. Again I will say when polled we have an over 95% approval rating with the general public. I will work on that again tomorrow on every call we make. Maybe we will see you guys. Don't forget to say hi! Our names are on our shirts.

Steve, I am sad that the paper is in the shape it is in. I threw that paper from 75-78. But I will say that we voted to cancel it at our station because of the hatchet jobs the editorial page was giving on us. When we told our carrier he had someone call on us and we are still taking it but for $77.00 for the next year. That's .21 a day. It seemed a little revenue was better that none.

Steve, I am sad that the paper is in the shape it is in. I threw that paper from 75-78. But I will say that we voted to cancel it at our station because of the hatchet jobs the editorial page was giving on us. When we told our carrier he had someone call on us and we are still taking it but for $77.00 for the next year. That's .21 a day. It seemed a little revenue was better that none.

Excuse me, Mike? That sounds a little hypocritical to me to say that you will put up with hatchet jobs as long as it doesn't cost quite as much money.

Ljbab728, its all about perspective. My wife occasionally has a had an unfavorable word about me. I didnt get rid of her. My point was they are willing to give an incredible discount to have at least some revenue. They do have a pretty good sports page too.

Maybe it was to the carrier's benefit rather than the company since the carrier seemed to take the initiative.

You fire folks seem to me to see life in terms of abstract groups rather than individuals.

Metro. You are so awesome! Now for some brevity! My favorite lawyer joke. Why don't sharks bite lawyers? Professional courtesy! Sadly as much as you guys would like to believe the world revolves around this message board, it does not. Again I will say when polled we have an over 95% approval rating with the general public. I will work on that again tomorrow on every call we make. Maybe we will see you guys. Don't forget to say hi! Our names are on our shirts.

Brevity? Or, did you mean levity? Two different words with two different meanings. Marshall, when you're out saving lives today, stop by a book store and pick up a thesaurus. Better yet, don't. Because your gaffes are quite entertaining.

Rover- no the "stones" comment is a basic insult to your manhood and lack thereof. I could have easily said put your money where your mouth is but the result is still going to be the same. All talk and no action. I was hoping to hack you off enough to get off your butt and move you into action but it appears that the passive gene has taken over. Retreat to the corner and continue to throw your verbal insults while Men of Action perform the deeds that need to be done.

Midtowner- Are you really that stupid or do you just play one here on the blog? On average over 100 LODD each year. But the really dangerous part is the crap that you get from a lifetime of doing the job. Thus the forced early retirement into the ground. What's the average life expectancy of a Lawyer?
Kerry- I'm sure midtowner would like to play with you, maybe he'll even share his toys. We don't have playstation at my fire station.

Flinty- perhaps we do have an unusual view of the world. As I said earlier, it's a brotherhood and we are a group. When one suffers, we all suffer. It's too bad that others don't understand when the fire dept. suffers the Citizens of the City suffer.

To All who read- One of the things you cannot convey over the internet is inflection of voice and emotion. When I write a response it's not because I'm mad and upset or want to kick someone's butt. I have the ability here to cut you to the quick, insult or compliment all in one paragraph. It's written to get My point of view across and is written without emotion. I enjoy the spirited debate and harbor no ill feelings to anyone. I could just as easily, and would rather prefer having this debate over a cup of coffee and parting with a "see you next week for a new topic" type attitude; but as Steve has alluded to in other threads public interest in the common well being of our society seems to have waned. (not a Steve quote). To that end, I hope everyone has a wonderful Sun.

To All who read- One of the things you cannot convey over the internet is inflection of voice and emotion. When I write a response it's not because I'm mad and upset or want to kick someone's butt. I have the ability here to cut you to the quick, insult or compliment all in one paragraph. It's written to get My point of view across and is written without emotion. I enjoy the spirited debate and harbor no ill feelings to anyone. I could just as easily, and would rather prefer having this debate over a cup of coffee and parting with a "see you next week for a new topic" type attitude ....

Good perspective. I really do hope we get to grab that cup of coffee soon.

Steve- soon I hope. Maybe thurs?

If you can tolerate my son playing nearby, sure. I'll message you.

Oh Lordgerald, you want to match wits? Then maybe it is you who needs the Thesaurus. One of the definitions of brevity is- the quality of expressing much in few words. I accomplished my task. You friend I believe hit the nail on the head with levity. A definition of that is lightness in weight, I think that describes you very well, a lightweight!

Oh Lordgerald, you want to match wits? Then maybe it is you who needs the Thesaurus. One of the definitions of brevity is- the quality of expressing much in few words. I accomplished my task. You friend I believe hit the nail on the head with levity. A definition of that is lightness in weight, I think that describes you very well, a lightweight!

I thought he was on your ignore list.

One of my dispicable firefighter friends sent me a message telling me I needed to defend myself.

So if a study was done and could somehow be done in a theoretical political vacuum regarding manpower usage, etc., how do the fire department employees figure it would come out? What changes would it recommend? Considering what a firefighter costs the city in terms of pension, etc., do you think such a study would conclude that we'd be better served both in terms of actual work provided and cost to absorb the function of EMSA into OKCFD?

Not picking fights, just pointing out an example of how EMSA paramedics cost less than firefighters.Maybe, maybe not. Lets get together with barnold and talk about it. The issue is not about what a paramedic makes. The issue is what does Paramedics Plus make.

The current system run by the Fire Dept would be optimum. Civilian employees under the OCFD. No profit driven companies. All proceeds going back into the system. Call it whatever you want to.

But doesn't that preclude collecting from Medicare/Medicaid?

That is something to be determined. Collect through the water bill like they do now. Collect what is available through Medicare and insurance. One of the costs is said to be relabeling and painting the equipment. Don't do those things, paint them correctly when they are replaced. I want what is best for all concerned. I can't believe that a private company that is profit driven is putting Pt care first. Profit is great if your selling cars, jewelry or clothing. It should have no bearing on the amount of ambulances on the street.

I know that government people and monopolies have trouble understanding the concept of enterprise, but it is actually good business for "for profit" companies to do excellent work, provide the services the consumers want, & do so more efficiently than bureaucratic organizations. Government organizations nearly always underestimate the power of private enterprise.

Ljbab728, its all about perspective. My wife occasionally has a had an unfavorable word about me. I didnt get rid of her. My point was they are willing to give an incredible discount to have at least some revenue. They do have a pretty good sports page too.

LOL, maybe so Mike. But had you voted to get rid of your wife until she came back with a better offer?

...Meanwhile, back at the ranch, the City is still low on funds. With insurance and a disposable lifestyle mentality, I am wondering if might be cheaper and better to just let structures burn down when they catch fire. Of all the structure fires are there any stats on how many are mostly saved, partly saved, or totally destroyed?

You hear about that guy out in Alabama or somewhere that they pay some annual fee for the town fire service. He had forgotten to pay and so they let his house burn down when he called in. His son had also forgotten to pay before, but they let him pay the next day. There is a high class fire department there huh. At least we can say we don't have to worry about that here. They might complain your ear off, but at least they do their job.

You hear about that guy out in Alabama or somewhere that they pay some annual fee for the town fire service. He had forgotten to pay and so they let his house burn down when he called in. His son had also forgotten to pay before, but they let him pay the next day. There is a high class fire department there huh. At least we can say we don't have to worry about that here. They might complain your ear off, but at least they do their job.

Not totally correct but close enough. Cost to the taxpayer $0. If they had some kind of Obamacare no pre-existing condition clasue he could have bought the fire protection while his house was on fire. The fire chief even made reference to that himself in the story I read.

Kerry,

As crazy as it sounds; and for the record I'm not in any way shape or form in favor of this, it would be cheaper to let every structure that catches fire burn to the ground and protect the exposures that are not involved in fire. Historically this is how fire protection began in the 1700's and it was mandated that you had large rings installed at the top of the structure so it could be hooked and pulled down if it caught fire. If we want to go back in time for the sheer sake of economics then yes this is a money saver. Now the flip side of that little thing of human life loss, a lifetime of valuables that are saved at a structure fire even when the building will be torn down, etc. may tend to get some peoples ire up.

When I signed up to become a firefighter it was to save lives, property and keep the fire from getting any bigger. That is what I base mine and my crews life safety upon every call. If you tell me that because of economics I should stand outside and squirt water and not go inside to save the civilians it will results in far less firefighter fatalities and injuries but the civilian deaths and injuries will rise quickly. I'm sure my family would love it if I never went inside another burning building but that's not in my nature, my job description or the expectations of the public I serve.

Most people don't realize what a huge difference it means when the truck arrives with only 3 bodies instead of 4. With every position that is eliminated from the apparatus Your chances of survival decrease and so does ours.

Rover, I like to think we have a very competent management on our dept. I have to think with the proceeds going back into the system it would make it more efficient.

What do you firepeople think you are going to accomplish by this thread? Honestly..

Rover, I like to think we have a very competent management on our dept. I have to think with the proceeds going back into the system it would make it more efficient.

Ah yes...that's what all govt agencies think.

I know that government people and monopolies have trouble understanding the concept of enterprise, but it is actually good business for "for profit" companies to do excellent work, provide the services the consumers want, & do so more efficiently than bureaucratic organizations. Government organizations nearly always underestimate the power of private enterprise.


Can you cite any actual examples of this? I ask as someone who has worked in both the public and private sector and didn't see much difference in terms of quality and efficiency.

bornhere, Memphis has a great system. We've sent several people out there to have them study their system. Hoping to learn what they have already figured out.

Metro, initially I started this thread to bring awareness to the fact that promises were made. Since the start of the fiscal year 29 positions are gone and plans are in place to possibly drop that 45 more positions. I did this on the off chance there was someone out there unlike you. Someone who actually cares about public safety.

Metro- to educate and get the "other" side of the story out there. I love it when you say "you firepeople". I'm also a small business owner, teacher, home owner, taxpayer, father and grandfather who happens to have a passion for his primary occupation. What does a person like you seek to accomplish by posting here?

The Oklahoma City Council and firefighters’ union agree to a contract, just as planning for next fiscal year’s contract begins

(SEE POLL ON MAPS 3 AND PUBLIC SAFETY AT LINK)

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-11014-slow-burn.html

Isn't it funny that they agreed to the contract right after they discovered they couldn't beat the Chamber in the municipal elections. Be glad that the incumbents aren't vindictive sorts.

Isn't it funny that they agreed to the contract right after they discovered they couldn't beat the Chamber in the municipal elections. Be glad that the incumbents aren't vindictive sorts.Actually, the funny thing is that you have no idea what you're talking about. The contract in question was settled between the parties before the council meeting (actually, at least a week before) and the council voted on it on the day of the municipal elections, not after. Next time you should educate yourself on the timelines of the event so you could be a little more accurate. Don't let your rush to slam someone make you get too sloppy.

Isn't it funny that they agreed to the contract right after they discovered they couldn't beat the Chamber in the municipal elections. Be glad that the incumbents aren't vindictive sorts.

Timeline of events from the story in the Oklahoman that I posted in another thread:
http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-and-firefighters-union-agree-on-contract/article/3545123#

Feb 7
"The firefighters union membership ratified the 2010-2011 contract"

March 1
"Oklahoma City Council members Tuesday unanimously passed a collective bargaining agreement with its firefighters union."

March 1
Council Elections

Just another Midtowner negative post against PS derailed by the facts of the situation. Thanks larry.

Just another Midtowner negative post against PS derailed by the facts of the situation. Thanks larry.

Curious, are they talking uniform or non-uniform

Curious, are they talking uniform or non-uniform

Would have to presume whomever comprises "collective bargaining agreement with its firefighters union."???

i have read about this in other areas also. Most of the communities are over policed and the cities are canning the people (fire dept) that we need the most to support the police departments. Maybe the city should make it a requirement for the police officers to go through fire training and volunteer their time to saving lives for a change.

i have read about this in other areas also. Most of the communities are over policed and the cities are canning the people (fire dept) that we need the most to support the police departments. Maybe the city should make it a requirement for the police officers to go through fire training and volunteer their time to saving lives for a change.

Even though some will disagree, our police and Fire Departments are adequately staffed and funded. I'll also offer that all City of OKC Departements are adequately funded and staffed, it's a matter of making adjustments where needed and making sure everyone is doing the job they were hired to do.

RC, you're right I disagree. Most departments are grossly understaffed and underfunded. They are however top heavy in city management positions which the FD consolidated several years back to ward off impending cuts in operations personnel. Departments now are faced with which jobs will get done and which ones will not; or get pushed to the back burner. Ie. cut brush pumpers in the FD. With your opinion of adequate staffing I'd ask you which apparatus or fire stations should be cut next? Justify your opinion and how you would deal with the fall out from the residents it will affect.

RC, you're right I disagree. Most departments are grossly understaffed and underfunded. They are however top heavy in city management positions which the FD consolidated several years back to ward off impending cuts in operations personnel. Departments now are faced with which jobs will get done and which ones will not; or get pushed to the back burner. Ie. cut brush pumpers in the FD. With your opinion of adequate staffing I'd ask you which apparatus or fire stations should be cut next? Justify your opinion and how you would deal with the fall out from the residents it will affect.

The possible FD cuts involve mostly non-uniform positions (I know, I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, all I ever did was make short grass out of tall grass) BEAT YOU TO IT, but it's fact. The average, City wide, is one management position per 23 employees, so your "top heavy" comment is BS.

I just call them as I know them.

Even though some will disagree, our police and Fire Departments are adequately staffed and funded. I'll also offer that all City of OKC Departements are adequately funded and staffed, it's a matter of making adjustments where needed and making sure everyone is doing the job they were hired to do.

The City disagrees. They have admitted that fire & police are understaffed for several years now.

The possible FD cuts involve mostly non-uniform positions (I know, I don't have a clue what I'm talking about, all I ever did was make short grass out of tall grass) BEAT YOU TO IT, but it's fact. The average, City wide, is one management position per 23 employees, so your "top heavy" comment is BS.

I just call them as I know them.

Lets check the current City budget report available for download at OKC.gov.

Pg 11
The budget includes 4,327 permanent full-time positions, a reduction of 99 positions from the previous year.

pg 57
Pie Chart gives the following breakdown:

"Positions by Category"
970 Mgmt. = 22.4%
1,404 Other employees = 32.4%
1,024 Police ("all sworn positions") = 23.7%
922 Fire ("all of the uniformed positions)= 21.3%
7 Executive = .2%

Quick and dirty math shows 1 mgmt. position for every 4.46 employees (not 1 per 23). Guess it depends on what your definition of top heavy but that seems a little high to me

Do you have a source for the cuts being mostly non-uniform positions? The articles I ran across mention "firefighter" positions (not fire department, which could easily include non-uniform support personnel etc). There were articles stating that the vast majority of cuts were from vacant positions (retirement etc). But I don't recall it saying anything about uniformed/non-uniformed.

Larry, once again thank you for having numbers like these at the tips of your fingers. Sometimes it takes me a few days to go back and find those sources.

RC,
Once again; as confusing as it I know it is to you, the facts, numbers and the truth say completely opposite of what you post. Perhaps that's why you were promoted to management.

The proposed cuts were UNIFORMED positions. That means a firefighter that can physically pull a hose, pump a chest or wipe you ailing butt for you.
1 to 4.46 seems pretty high to me as well. They are the reason firefighters got out of the cities health program. Management employees were the number one drain on the system, with cops and firefighters being the least. It must be those nasty paper cuts that get infected....lol

Larry, once again thank you for having numbers like these at the tips of your fingers. Sometimes it takes me a few days to go back and find those sources.

RC,
Once again; as confusing as it I know it is to you, the facts, numbers and the truth say completely opposite of what you post. Perhaps that's why you were promoted to management.

The proposed cuts were UNIFORMED positions. That means a firefighter that can physically pull a hose, pump a chest or wipe you ailing butt for you.
1 to 4.46 seems pretty high to me as well. They are the reason firefighters got out of the cities health program. Management employees were the number one drain on the system, with cops and firefighters being the least. It must be those nasty paper cuts that get infected....lol

I knew you would come back out from under the rock with your usual wise ass remarks, thanks for not disapointing us. Again, your figures and comments are wrong as always, but go on and live in "never never land".

PS. the election is over, get on with your life