Well said, guru.

By contrast, downtown OKC of previous eras was teeming with people, great restaurants, housing, public transit, great architecture, plentiful retail establishments, and urban density. Today, it is primarily a central business district (with much vacancy) and a tourist entertainment district surrounded by empty lots and degraded and/or demolished architecture. Pretty stark difference, no?

It seems like your boosterism is beginning to border on the absurd. We're all stoked by the tremendous improvements OKC has made and is planning, but that does not mean that we're going to have a "greater" downtown than we did in the past. Frankly, it will be another half century in all likelihood before OKC's downtown is regenerated with as much activity as existed there as recently as the early 1960s. We have a long way to go before claiming our downtown is "greater" than it was in previous eras. That's not nostalgia, that is a fact.

I think you have to go back to pre-WWII for downtown OKC to be "vibrant". You indicated the early 60's was lively, but by 1962, 53 downtown retailers had vacated downtown or gone out of business. Lack of planning had led to small lots and no parking downtown, so businesses couldn't grow. And there was no thriving residential downtown. Since the trolleys got dismantled and the cars had no place to park, people quit coming downtown. Because downtown was becoming run-down and seedy and there had been no large scale planning, there was a knee jerk reaction and thus the Pei plan was put in place. Instead of intelligently pruning, wholesale leveling of properties ensued. That and poor timing (the busts) left us where we were about 10 years ago. Finally there is progress. Instead of all the petty infighting and indecision of previous decades, we have city leaders willing to make decisions.

I think you have to go back to pre-WWII for downtown OKC to be "vibrant". You indicated the early 60's was lively, but by 1962, 53 downtown retailers had vacated downtown or gone out of business. Lack of planning had led to small lots and no parking downtown, so businesses couldn't grow. And there was no thriving residential downtown. Since the trolleys got dismantled and the cars had no place to park, people quit coming downtown. Because downtown was becoming run-down and seedy and there had been no large scale planning, there was a knee jerk reaction and thus the Pei plan was put in place. Instead of intelligently pruning, wholesale leveling of properties ensued. That and poor timing (the busts) left us where we were about 10 years ago. Finally there is progress. Instead of all the petty infighting and indecision of previous decades, we have city leaders willing to make decisions.

It might seem this way--but--it was not this way. The Pei Plan--often disparaged here...is the SOLE REASON OKC got to be the largest Urban Renewal Project in the USA in it's day...and was the foresight which has made the fruition one sees today. It is not an easy subject to research--and there are many dead-end roads to discovery along these lines. One needs to know A LOT MORE about the quality of construction and safety of all the so-called historic landmarks with plaster facades...nice in photos...about to collapse in reality. Study the building boom and all of the architectural nuts and bolts of what it takes to restore these facilities to some semblance of viability. It is easy to just say everyone was stupid. A whole city emerged from the prairie in 30 years--and many compromises were made in the interest of expediency--by private parties. Easy to say they were are just short-cited bureaucrats involved in Urban Renewal. They were not.

What happened to OKC in the 50's and 60's was typical of most American cities: newly found prosperity -- most families able to buy cars and homes -- meant rapid growth and the advent of suburbs at the direct expense of downtowns and surrounding areas. Also, racial problems accelerated these patterns. And the retail merely followed the people, as it always does.

The reason for the empty lots and misguided urban renewal attempts was in response to these trends, not the start of them.

I think many assume that somehow the city leaders chased everyone out of downtown but it was just shifting demographics and national trends. We compounded the problem by removing a lot of the buildings with real character and uniqueness, but bulldozing entire blocks was embraced in lots of cities trying to cope with huge areas of blight.


If you're looking for a place to aim your disgust and anger when looking at some of these old urban scenes, focus on the interstate highway system and a federal government that did everything in it's power to further the auto, road and home building industries.

And truth be told, we really haven't changed much since then and the same problems keep recurring. We may feel good about the momentum downtown but we have even more rot now, just in different places.

I must have missed this. In a post on another board, Hot Rod, says that Sandridge has announced plans for a new high-rise on their campus. I don't recall this. Is this official or pure conjecture on someones part?

I must have missed this. In a post on another board, Hot Rod, says that Sandridge has announced plans for a new high-rise on their campus. I don't recall this. Is this official or pure conjecture on someones part?

Not sure if an official announcement has been made but there have been plenty of hints and winks from various people over the past few weeks. I am not sure if it is real or just image repair. I would like to see them just fill their current tower.

did hot rod mention about how tall it might be or how many stories?

I heard from someone within the Dolese ranks that this was true and that it would roughly be 3/4 the height of Cotter's Ranch (Chase Tower). Like you said, it could be pure speculation and wanting of a new contract by Dolese, but I mentioned it on Lackmeyer's okccentral.com, or on his Facebook page and he agrees that something will be announced soon.

The proposed site would be east of the SandRidge Tower, on the site of the current parking garage at the NW corner of Broadway & Kerr.

I'm sure they are just looking a concepts for if/when they fill the tower and Braniff building.

If the markets hold up, I could see them needing to get this on the table fairly quickly. If Continental triples in size over the next 5 years, as Harold Hamm has predicted, then Sandridge will probably be right there with them. They took a sizable flier on the Oklahoma Mississippian oil play early on(1 million acres), and that bet is now looking to have been a prescient one. Additionally, they have strong oil Assets in the Permian basin and world-class gas assets in the WTO that are basically sitting idle. If and when gas ticks up over $5.50 things will get even more interesting for Sandridge. They are a $4 billion company with a $1 billion/year exploration budget so explosive growth is bound to happen. They are probably gonna need more space.

Plans would be for a 20 story tower.....same as the current or former Devon Tower. Yawn!

In Steve's article, Tom Ward stated the new tower is now considered to be in the 5 year master plan of the campus, so we can actually see this happening in the short-term, maybe getting some construction started in 2013, and finished by 2015.

Well actually sooner than that:

"Ward also announced for the first time that construction of yet another new building at Robert S. Kerr and Broadway (site of the former India Temple Building) is in the company's five-year plan.

Greg Dewey, vice president of communications at SandRidge, said demolition of the garage should start later this year, with completion of the new building by 2014. The Braniff Building, which will feature a restaurant and retail on the first floor that will open up to Robinson Avenue and the campus, is set to open in early 2013."

Yawn!

Really? You're kidding.

Plans would be for a 20 story tower.....same as the current or former Devon Tower. Yawn!

Yes, but it'll be pretty!

Plans would be for a 20 story tower.....same as the current or former Devon Tower. Yawn!

Who cares if it's not a giant tower. Here here for more downtown density.

And let's hope things really explode for them and they need something even bigger/taller.

Who cares if it's not a giant tower. Here here for more downtown density.

Cheerio! And if their 20 floors are like the first 6 and last 4 of Devon, then it'll be a 400 footer!!

And let's hope things really explode for them and they need something even bigger/taller.

Fingers Crossed!


Plans would be for a 20 story tower.....same as the current or former Devon Tower. Yawn!

Anytime we can replace an ugly parking garage with a 20 story tower, either the size of the current Devon tower or 3/4 the size of Chase I'm 700% behind it!

Even at 20 floors a new building with modern floor heights would be almost as tall as the current SandRidge Tower.

Even at 20 floors a new building with modern floor heights would be almost as tall as the current SandRidge Tower.

That's what I was thinking. I wonder what kind of design they would go with? All glass like Devon or like the old tower. Sorry, not trying to get ahead of the game. But infill would be nice!

They are using Rogers Marvel Architects for their overall campus design, and the renovation of the Braniff Building and the new employee services center facing Kerr Park are both very simple, modern glass designs meant to compliment the existing tower. The are also using Rand Eliott for the tower interiors, and we all know he is a true modernist.

This is a concept from when they originally proposed their plans and it's interesting because it does show a bigger building replacing India Temple and the east parking garage. Here, it is only about 10 floors but this was obviously a very preliminary design. You also see highlighted three additional buildings along Broadway which are currently vacant lots owned by SandRidge. I suspect one or all would be parking structures for their employees.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sandridgenewtower.jpg

If this is true that would be great. I just hope they aren’t given a bunch of variances from the City and are required to build out to the sidewalk.

Wait a second....I thought sandridge was the worst, most evil company in the world and that it would never do anything good for Oklahoma city and i thought it was going to fail miserably. Is it possible that sandridge actually had planned this project for the benefit of Oklahoma city all along??? Obviously not because they are conspiring with the city government to ruin the city and destroy every inch of history the city has left...

Some people should really keep their mouths shut more often and use common sense. I believe that in a post, I said, along with a few others, that sandridge was probably clearing away some of the buildings(other than globe life) to make room for new buildings, not just a plaza, but I was all but ridiculed for it. Wow who would've thought that maybe they were trying to prepare for expansion by tearing down some buildings on THEIR property that weren't big enough.

In all seriousness, I hope this works out. Looks like it has some nice potential

If this is true that would be great. I just hope they aren’t given a bunch of variances from the City and are required to build out to the sidewalk.

They really don't have much choice if they want to build something of any substance. There isn't just a whole lot of room between the tower and the proposed new location

downtown is in need of a new tower in the north side. A tower taller than the current Sandridge tower will do wonders to our skyline looking east and west. but really any highrise added to dt would be good news. very exciting!

Based on all their design concepts and moves to date, I'm sure they'll want to continue to emphasize and feature the main tower.

Although I hope otherwise, my strong suspicion is that the new building will be at least 100' shorter so as to not detract from what they clearly see as the centerpiece of their entire campus/development.

100' shorter would put it around Valliance Bank Tower size.

http://openbuildings.com/upload/group4/building37278/media/0bcvksp.jpg

Wait a second....I thought sandridge was the worst, most evil company in the world and that it would never do anything good for Oklahoma city and i thought it was going to fail miserably. Is it possible that sandridge actually had planned this project for the benefit of Oklahoma city all along??? Obviously not because they are conspiring with the city government to ruin the city and destroy every inch of history the city has left...

Some people should really keep their mouths shut more often and use common sense. I believe that in a post, I said, along with a few others, that sandridge was probably clearing away some of the buildings(other than globe life) to make room for new buildings, not just a plaza, but I was all but ridiculed for it. Wow who would've thought that maybe they were trying to prepare for expansion by tearing down some buildings on THEIR property that weren't big enough.

In all seriousness, I hope this works out. Looks like it has some nice potential

Yep. Where is Spartan? :)

I'll believe it when I see it. Kerr McGee had almost 2000 employees packed in the tower in their heyday, Sandridge has about 400 employees, even if modern standards are more sq. ft per person, they still have LOTS of growing room in the tower, not to mention the Braniff. I hope I'm wrong, but not jumping on the unverified rumor mill yet.

Given a choice between a tall tower or a short block-long one, I would prefer the short long one. Tall buildings look great from 10 miles away, but humans on the street interact with it in the bottom 30 feet. If they built exactly what was in that model I would be happy.

I have they indicated a use for the Braniff building yet?

Booooo, go up! Apparently you have zero concept of land use there "facts". Employees walk in, get on the elevator, and go to work. Retail is all that really happens on the ground floor. And if you haven't noticed, they are including retail, but we're not hurting for the space downtown. No sense in saturating the market with a mini-mall at street level. The wider you build, the more land tax you pay too. Why do you think any highrise has ever been built? It's cheaper to go up than out in a CBD.

Anyway, not that we've seen anything that indicates a 20 story structure (I can't remember now if the Oklahoman article was discussing re-facading Brannif to be glass faced on the old alley side or if it was including a new one as well). It would seem somewhat silly to create multiple structures rather than simply build a new single taller tower. Valiance has always been my favorite OKC tower (until Devon of course). Something that height would be great addition for infill....increase that density. There's soooooo much room to fil in (and even more with Sandridge's plans). But I still don't see why they need anything at all. A said, they are about 1500 employees short of what that building can hold.

I don't think Sandridge will be building for at least 10 years. They still have to make a profit for at least two years in a row. If they announce a multimillion dollar building in the next few years stockholders will be irate!

I don't think Sandridge will be building for at least 10 years. They still have to make a profit for at least two years in a row. If they announce a multimillion dollar building in the next few years stockholders will be irate!

LOL. They already announced a "multimillion" building across the street in the Amenities building not to mention the Braniff remodel. They are definitely planning on building and when you look at the amount spent it pales in comparison to what they are spending in CAPEX.

They are spending a $100 million currently. If they spend another $500 million on an iconic tower, then investors will rebel. Chesapeake almost had the same problem with Aubrey...... I don't see much difference.

The construction cost for a 20-story building would be well less than $100 million.

Continental bought the 19-story Devon building for $22.5 million. New construction would be more, but not massively so.

Construction labor and materials are running pretty cheap right now.

Given the time frames of getting large building projects done, a quickly growing company must plan ahead by at least two to three years. Building for your current needs ignores the problem you will have later. Wise companies plan for growth. Planning to stay the same means you will stay the same.

Yes, everyone laughed at Aubrey, but he is on building 15 now on the campus and hiring boatloads of people every month. Chesapeake is considered one of the best companies to work for in the country. Part of the reason is the facilities and tools the employees have to work with. If SR, Continental, etc. want to compete in the big boy game for the best talent (which still drives good growth) then they have to push to be competitive in ALL they do, including a great work environment for their employees. You cannot save yourself to prosperity.

They are spending a $100 million currently. If they spend another $500 million on an iconic tower, then investors will rebel. Chesapeake almost had the same problem with Aubrey...... I don't see much difference.

In the scenario you are mentioning sure. But you just made that up. 500 million? Iconic tower? No one said they were building a Devon-like tower?

Also, if the stock does what a lot of people think it will the investors will be very happy. I think it's a $30-40 stock in 2-3 years.

If SR, Continental, etc. want to compete in the big boy game for the best talent (which still drives good growth) then they have to push to be competitive in ALL they do, including a great work environment for their employees. You cannot save yourself to prosperity

True, and this is a nice little competition we have going here with Devon, CHK, SR and Continental all investing heavily in their facilities and trying to create the best possible work environment.

It's already raised the bar and is why these companies are so well respected and show up on the "best places to work" lists.

100' shorter would put it around Valliance Bank Tower size.

I love this tower. Wish it was downtown!

If people would read the article in its entirety and just listen to statements from Sandridge, they would know that a new tower will be built by 2014. Whether its 20 stories or 50, its better than a 30 year old parking garage. Good job Sandridge!

Is it in fact going to be 20 stories or is this just what everyone is predicting? I cant find the sandridge announcement on the web

If people would read the article in its entirety and just listen to statements from Sandridge, they would know that a new tower will be built by 2014. Whether its 20 stories or 50, its better than a 30 year old parking garage. Good job Sandridge!

What article?

Can you post a link?

What article?

Can you post a link?


I'm pretty sure he already did.

Read article in its entirety:

http://www.newsok.com/sandridge-energys-plans-for-braniff-building-renovation-approved/article/3577840

Ward says there is a new building in their five-year plan for that site, but the height is based on unofficial things Steve Lackmeyer has heard through his contacts at SandRidge.

For Steve to put things out there, you know the information is strong as he tends to be very conservative (and rightly so).

Yep. Where is Spartan? :)

haha. I was thinking the same thing. Amazing how much more positive and constructive this forum is without him.

Spartan brings a knowledge of urban design and planning and an educated perspective that often is missing on this board. I miss his posts...they add to the conversations where a number of posters here just are negative without being learned, skilled or constructive. There is a difference between being critically analyzing something and just being paranoid and cynical.

I think Spartan would be glad to know that SR is moving forward with more than an urban prairie.

what happen to spartan? did he move or leave the board?

Spartan is busy traveling Europe and will be back here soon, I am quite sure.


One thing I always like to keep in mind is just about everyone that takes the trouble to follow these topics and post here cares a great deal about Oklahoma City. We all have different ways of expressing that and the Internet makes it easy to engage in negative and even rude discourse, but I try to look past that and see that most here really do want the best for OKC, even if we often disagree on what that represents.

I tend to be a "sunshine pumper" but will admit that I learn from all viewpoints. It also must be said that almost everyone is more open to other perspectives when they are expressed respectfully and intelligently.

Spartan is busy traveling Europe and will be back here soon, I am quite sure.


One thing I always like to keep in mind is just about everyone that takes the trouble to follow these topics and post here cares a great deal about Oklahoma City. We all have different ways of expressing that and the Internet makes it easy to engage in negative and even rude discourse, but I try to look past that and see that most here really do want the best for OKC, even if we often disagree on what that represents.

I tend to be a "sunshine pumper" but will admit that I learn from all viewpoints. It also must be said that almost everyone is more open to other perspectives when they are expressed respectfully and intelligently.

I agree, I just think some people have the "my way or the highway" attitude and are unwilling to budge from their viewpoints. He could have saved some face if he wouldn't have jumped to conclusions about what SD was going to do.

I'll believe it when I see it. Kerr McGee had almost 2000 employees packed in the tower in their heyday, Sandridge has about 400 employees, even if modern standards are more sq. ft per person, they still have LOTS of growing room in the tower, not to mention the Braniff. I hope I'm wrong, but not jumping on the unverified rumor mill yet.

Metro, is your new game to see how many times you can make the same exact post in a thread? Refer reply #25.

wow metro for a minute there i thought i had deja vu

I have yet to see an intelligent response to my observation though. I think it's logical reasoning to see some doubt based pun previously posted reasons, and given how certain people on here like to run wild on the rumors

I'm normally pretty conservative when it comes to getting on a forum rumor bandwagon. But I also realize Steve is too, and for him to mention something about it on his blog, adds a little more validity to it.

Really? You're kidding.

Another tower the height of the existing Devon Tower? 20 story towers are a dime a dozen. I'll admit, it is better than the current parking garage, but it still doesn't replace all of the density and history we've already lost.

Another tower the height of the existing Devon Tower? 20 story towers are a dime a dozen. I'll admit, it is better than the current parking garage, but it still doesn't replace all of the density and history we've already lost.

Actually 20 story towers aren't a dime a dozen in OKC. I would be very happy to see a dozen of them downtown. I agree about the loss of density and history and don't excuse Sandridge for that but don't put down thngs that could change that perception.

Photo from today:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/sandridge7711.jpg

so is the new office tower going where the parking garage is now?

I can't find one office tower that Rogers Marvel designed...they specialize more in urban planning, so I wonder if they will get someone else to design the new tower?