It is a fallacy that property owners are not subject to any public interests. At the same time, the public has, and should have only limited rights to protect the greater interests. However, society should clearly define what those interests are and not be arbitrary or mercurial.

Looks like it is actually coming down now... (photo via Shelton)

Yep. I appears that the theory that they were going to slow to protect the building next to it was the correct one. They took down one half of the building pretty much by hand and now they are bringing in the bigger equipment for the rest.

Yep. I appears that the theory that they were going to slow to protect the building next to it was the correct one. They took down one half of the building pretty much by hand and now they are bringing in the bigger equipment for the rest.

So it appears. In their model they show the current parking garage to be much larger and closer to Kerr. I guess they still need to use it until a new one is built down the street.

Yeah. I don't get why save a small, 2 story parking garage.

I talked to some people I know at Sandridge, and they said that the existing parking garage and conference center will be kept. So there will not be a new parking garage built.

I think their plan is to build at least one new parking structure on one of several parcels then own just north of the complex.

They may eventually replace the smaller garage on the site but that would probably be later, if at all.

Here's the architectural image. It shows the existing parking garage and conference center in place. There are trees where the India Temple building was located, so there is some space left by the demolition of the India Temple Building between the street and the garage.

http://www.rogersmarvel.com/images/Sandridge/SandridgeUnveiled_RMA_copyrighted.jpg

I talked to some people I know at Sandridge, and they said that the existing parking garage and conference center will be kept. So there will not be a new parking garage built.

Well that is disappointing then. Their initial model clearly showed a larger garage at the corner. Are they officially on the hook to build the other structures they identified?

Last Glances at the India Temple Building (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2011/04/27/last-glances-at-the-india-temple-building/)

A debate raged last year over whether there was any of the original exterior left to save on the 1902 building that SandRidge Energy wanted to raze to make way for a landscaped plaza. For the past several weeks demolition has been done floor by floor and it was difficult to get a view of the original building (it was masked with tilt-up concrete facade by Kerr-McGee in the 1960s).

Wow, Looks like all of the architectural elements were still in place, hidden behind the facade. This is such a tragedy that Sandridge lied to the general public about this. I'm losing any respect I had for them. Why is there no public outrage about this? I guess because nothing can be done about it now.

Drove past there a few hours ago but didn't have time to stop. Maybe tomorrow. It's nothing but one wall, pretty much.

Wow, Looks like all of the architectural elements were still in place, hidden behind the facade. This is such a tragedy that Sandridge lied to the general public about this. I'm losing any respect I had for them. Why is there no public outrage about this? I guess because nothing can be done about it now.

You hated them before. You hate them still. Big deal. How many more times and ways will people say it. This skirmish didnt go your way. Go to work to make sure it isnt repeated, but give this one up.

Well, anyone who is surprised that SR lied is naive. The old facade actually appears to be in better condition than even I suspected. Oh well!

I'm with Rover on this one. Just let it go...nothing can be done now.

Oh well, the blood is on Anthony McDermid's hands. lol!

Why are they digging a hole around the area? I thought they were just going to landscape and make a park?

May be for the foundation of the "employee activities building."

May be for the foundation of the "employee activities building."

No, that's across the street, just west of Kerr Park.

Why are they digging a hole around the area? I thought they were just going to landscape and make a park?

Maybe they decided to build a moat?

Maybe they decided to build a moat?

I am certain it is a dungeon and an alchemy lab. I hear they are impregnating a woman with the devil's seed and producing the antiChrist.

i am certain it is a dungeon and an alchemy lab. I hear they are impregnating a woman with the devil's seed and producing the antichrist.

^^lol.

They are probably just clearing what were the basements of the buildings that have been demolished.

I am certain it is a dungeon and an alchemy lab. I hear they are impregnating a woman with the devil's seed and producing the antiChrist.
Shoulda known. Thanks for the heads up.

They are probably just clearing what were the basements of the buildings that have been demolished.

Dng ding ding, we have a winner. Plus, they have to cap off the utility lines and probably update some of them before they put a new top layer on.

They are probably just clearing what were the basements of the buildings that have been demolished.

That makes sense.

No, that's across the street, just west of Kerr Park.

Ah of course, that makes sense. The one "good" aspect of this project, the "Employees Activities Building" (how's that for prestige in a name?) probably won't even happen before SandRidge goes belly-up.

Why does everybody on this board relish the idea of SR going under? Is it just revenge? Seems so. Otherwise, it would be sad for OKC

Hyperbole much?

Why does everybody on this board relish the idea of SR going under? Is it just revenge? Seems so. Otherwise, it would be sad for OKC

It's not, Rover. It's just facing the inevitable. Look at the company that we just gave clearance to raze an entire corner of our downtown. Their "masterplan" will take longer to implement than they have even existed in OKC. Does that sound like a good idea? Plus, they're ran by a madman whom most consider to be crazy.

All of you who think SD is going to go under obviously have no clue what you are talking about. I suggest you take a look at how they have repositioned themselves this past year and then tell me whether you think they're going to tank. And it is also very sad that you would wish that on what could be a major corporation for OKC. Forget about the thousands of jobs that would be lost, let's get pissed off and wish that upon them just because they tore down two ugly ass buildings! Hell yeah! Take that SandRidge!

And Rover, don't listen to the people who seem to relish in the fact that they think SD is going under. It's basically the same 5 people who got butt-hurt about what SD is doing. They've continued to post the same, tired, old, and pathetic opinions for 98 pages now.

And Spartan, how is Tom Ward crazy? How is he a madman? I think it's funny when people try to criticize Ward about what he is doing. You guys realize that it was he and Aubrey who built Chesapeake in to what it is right? It wasn't just Aubrey. At one point, Chesapeake was a penny stock and now look at them. I think Ward knows what he is doing.

Shame on all of you who are hoping SD goes belly up just because they tore down a couple of ugly ass buildings.

Golfer, I'm not one of the ones who wants to see Sandridge go under, I strongly disagreed with their intent on razing, but they dont employ thousands, at least not in OKC.

http://www.google.com/finance?client=safari&rls=en&q=sd&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&hl=en&tab=we

Look under "Key Stats and Ratios" on the right column. Number of employees is 2,192. Obviously not all of those are in OKC. But that would still be 2,192 people without a job.

All of you who think SD is going to go under obviously have no clue what you are talking about. I suggest you take a look at how they have repositioned themselves this past year and then tell me whether you think they're going to tank. And it is also very sad that you would wish that on what could be a major corporation for OKC. Forget about the thousands of jobs that would be lost, let's get pissed off and wish that upon them just because they tore down two ugly ass buildings! Hell yeah! Take that SandRidge!

And Rover, don't listen to the people who seem to relish in the fact that they think SD is going under. It's basically the same 5 people who got butt-hurt about what SD is doing. They've continued to post the same, tired, old, and pathetic opinions for 98 pages now.

And Spartan, how is Tom Ward crazy? How is he a madman? I think it's funny when people try to criticize Ward about what he is doing. You guys realize that it was he and Aubrey who built Chesapeake in to what it is right? It wasn't just Aubrey. At one point, Chesapeake was a penny stock and now look at them. I think Ward knows what he is doing.

Shame on all of you who are hoping SD goes belly up just because they tore down a couple of ugly ass buildings.

Does your username mean prozac? You just glossed right over the point that Aubrey decided it was best for CHK to get rid of Ward. So that begs the question..... shouldn't you be washing your mouth out with Listerine right now?

And in case anyone misreads my post, I'm not suggesting you take prozac, I'm suggesting you take a deep breath. I'm also not a company spokesman for Listerine. I just can't help but wonder why on earth anyone would speak so positively about Tom Ward of all people.

"Get pissed off"
"two ugly ass buildings"
"take that SandRidge"
"what could be a major corporation"
"pathetic opinions"

So, basically I can't see where you said a single credible thing. Oh well, better luck next time.

Prozac, does SR even employ 300 people in OKC? I heard they went through some major staff reductions right after they got their demo permits.

Spartan, ProV1x, is one of the most popular made golf balls.

ProV1, they employ about 400 downtown

Golf, eh? Ah now I see. Thanks 'tro..

Why does everybody on this board relish the idea of SR going under? Is it just revenge? Seems so. Otherwise, it would be sad for OKC

I agree. The whole unfolding of this chapter of OKC history has been and continues to be sad for OKC.

Those people probably wouldn't stay unemployed for very long. Devon, Chesapeake and Continental Resources are always looking for good people

Does your username mean prozac? You just glossed right over the point that Aubrey decided it was best for CHK to get rid of Ward. So that begs the question..... shouldn't you be washing your mouth out with Listerine right now?

And in case anyone misreads my post, I'm not suggesting you take prozac, I'm suggesting you take a deep breath. I'm also not a company spokesman for Listerine. I just can't help but wonder why on earth anyone would speak so positively about Tom Ward of all people.

"Get pissed off"
"two ugly ass buildings"
"take that SandRidge"
"what could be a major corporation"
"pathetic opinions"

So, basically I can't see where you said a single credible thing. Oh well, better luck next time.

Prozac, does SR even employ 300 people in OKC? I heard they went through some major staff reductions right after they got their demo permits.

Prozac? Really? Not big into sports I see.

How did I not say a single credible thing? How is you quoting "get pissed off" supposed to say that I didn't say anything credible? Because that's how the majority of the posts in this thread have come across. That the person is pissed off.

"Two ugly ass buildings" - Are you trying to tell me those buildings weren't an eye sore? Cause if you think those were good looking buildings I believe you are the one who has lost credibility.

"Take that SandRidge" - clearly I was being sarcastic. That's how a lot of posts in this thread have come across to me.

"What could be a major corporation" - Care to explain how this isn't credible? SandRidge is five years old. It is the smallest, by a good amount, of the big 3 energy companies in OKC. If it keeps going at the rate it is now, it will be a major corporation.

"Pathetic opinions" - This pretty much explains itself. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing.........see how pathetic that becomes when that's all you read over and over and over and over and over....?



About Tom Ward, can you show me where Aubrey decided it was best to get rid of him? Or are you going to "gloss over" that? You also never responded to my question about how Tom Ward is a madman and is crazy. Can you please explain how is both of these things? You probably forgot about it and just "glossed over" it. Thanks man.

Those people probably wouldn't stay unemployed for very long. Devon, Chesapeake and Continental Resources are always looking for good people

Sure, the geologists and engineers probably wouldn't be out of work for very long. But what about everyone else? All of the people in accounting, records, out in the fields, etc?

It's not, Rover. It's just facing the inevitable. Look at the company that we just gave clearance to raze an entire corner of our downtown. Their "masterplan" will take longer to implement than they have even existed in OKC. Does that sound like a good idea? Plus, they're ran by a madman whom most consider to be crazy.

I guess most in the "save all buildings" circle consider him a "madman". Not sure that is the consensus though. I don't know the man personally, but I have never heard anyone in the business he is in call him a madman. Maybe you know him better and run in circles with his associates. Still, publicly calling him names is probably not the most mature thing to do.

I have no idea if his company will go under, but I don't think most analysts agree with you. The stock is rated neutral as it has been trading at a fairly high level and has been a recommended buy for awhile. It's earnings were about as expected and are expected to be considerably more second quarter. Their market cap is over $4 Billion. Not bad for being run by a "madman". They have moved from mostly gas to about a 50/50 gas/oil mix and have repositioned themselves pretty well according to most analysts. Their yr over yr. income was up almost 45% this year 1st Q and will likely be much stronger with oil at or around $100 per barrel.

It seems SR has contributed lots to this community and yet because some disagree with their real estate development plans some seek revenge in the way of failure and the elimination of a strategically important business for this city. I just don't get it. I get disagreeing with their vision and building plans, but I don't get the underlying hatred. If there is more to the story....more FACTS.... then please share.

I guess most in the "save all buildings" circle consider him a "madman". Not sure that is the consensus though. I don't know the man personally, but I have never heard anyone in the business he is in call him a madman. Maybe you know him better and run in circles with his associates. Still, publicly calling him names is probably not the most mature thing to do.

I have no idea if his company will go under, but I don't think most analysts agree with you. The stock is rated neutral as it has been trading at a fairly high level and has been a recommended buy for awhile. It's earnings were about as expected and are expected to be considerably more second quarter. Their market cap is over $4 Billion. Not bad for being run by a "madman". They have moved from mostly gas to about a 50/50 gas/oil mix and have repositioned themselves pretty well according to most analysts. Their yr over yr. income was up almost 45% this year 1st Q and will likely be much stronger with oil at or around $100 per barrel.

It seems SR has contributed lots to this community and yet because some disagree with their real estate development plans some seek revenge in the way of failure and the elimination of a strategically important business for this city. I just don't get it. I get disagreeing with their vision and building plans, but I don't get the underlying hatred. If there is more to the story....more FACTS.... then please share.

I think it's pretty obvious that Spartan doesn't care for facts concerning SD. You are right about their transformation, though their production will end up being 80/20 rather than 50/50.

And to say that Aubrey "got rid of" Tom Ward is hilarious.

You know Spartan, I have to apologize. When you said that he was a madman, I didn't believe you at first. However, he was on Jim Cramer's "Mad" Money on Friday so now I clearly understand what you meant. Sorry about that!

http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000020621

(btw, the above post is saracastic. You didn't pick up on it last time so I thought I would clarify it for you.)

Prozac? Really? Not big into sports I see.

How did I not say a single credible thing? How is you quoting "get pissed off" supposed to say that I didn't say anything credible? Because that's how the majority of the posts in this thread have come across. That the person is pissed off.

"Two ugly ass buildings" - Are you trying to tell me those buildings weren't an eye sore? Cause if you think those were good looking buildings I believe you are the one who has lost credibility.

"Take that SandRidge" - clearly I was being sarcastic. That's how a lot of posts in this thread have come across to me.

"What could be a major corporation" - Care to explain how this isn't credible? SandRidge is five years old. It is the smallest, by a good amount, of the big 3 energy companies in OKC. If it keeps going at the rate it is now, it will be a major corporation.

"Pathetic opinions" - This pretty much explains itself. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing.........see how pathetic that becomes when that's all you read over and over and over and over and over....?



About Tom Ward, can you show me where Aubrey decided it was best to get rid of him? Or are you going to "gloss over" that? You also never responded to my question about how Tom Ward is a madman and is crazy. Can you please explain how is both of these things? You probably forgot about it and just "glossed over" it. Thanks man.

First of all, golf is not a sport. Feel free to talk basketball or football (please no NFL) with me, though. What I was referring to was the over-the-top way in which your post came off. It's better when you take a deep breath and use measured, sensible replies. Feel free to crack a facetious joke toward us like Rover, or against SandRidge like we do. But there's a line. I sense that we're currently in the midst of another onslaught from defensive SandRidge employees who have heard about this thread, but that's just a hunch, supported by seeing new posters who are emotionally defending a company that isn't very well-admired in the community right now.

I'm going to focus on one remark you said.

"'Two ugly ass buildings' - Are you trying to tell me those buildings weren't an eye sore? Cause if you think those were good looking buildings I believe you are the one who has lost credibility."

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4053/4320789961_9e1feab391.jpg
This was a cool building. Great potential for some cool NY-style lofts. In fact, that's what some people wanted to do to it. See that ugly window-less behemoth towering above in the top left corner? Why couldn't SandRidge have torn THAT building down instead? Why do good buildings have to be demolished so that we are forced to look at the truly hideous buildings downtown??

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ_cuWMlDzJ6h5o-wY46lnJWjNhRL3vToz4w2TaSqxhrASLQvoL5Q
We now also know that we were right that the original facade is, no was, almost entirely in-tact underneath the false facade. Just as the man who put the facade on asserted on his death bed.

I am mostly appreciative, in hindsight, that SR proposed to tear down the other 3 buildings. They did need to go. But it's the old political reconciling trick where you package the controversial in with the palatable and then pretend the opposition is mostly organized against the palatable. Great way of marginalizing the people who stand in your way. And we also play the "momentum" card lately, although hopefully now that card will be put to rest.


"Pathetic opinions" - This pretty much explains itself. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing. 98 pages of complaining about the same thing.........see how pathetic that becomes when that's all you read over and over and over and over and over....?

So what makes you think that your post is unique? Just curious. Do you think we haven't had a few onslaughts of defensive SandRidge employees already? Do you think we care that they are now specializing their entire corporate strategy to focus on hedged oil shares at a time when oil is at its peak? Gee, which oil bust does that remind me of...

No, I don't care about the "sport" of golf. No, I could give a damn about the oil industry. This is not about what's best for SandRidge. This is about what's best for OKC. To that end, we very obviously need more people with planning and design pedigrees, and less people who only care about energy stocks and golf. That would be the problem, not the solution. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that.

Maybe they decided to build a moat?

That would actually be an improvement over a plaza. I know you said it as a joke but I would actually prefer a moat to an open corporate plaza.

First of all, golf is not a sport. Feel free to talk basketball or football (please no NFL) with me, though. ...

...No, I don't care about the "sport" of golf. No, I could give a damn about the oil industry. This is not about what's best for SandRidge. This is about what's best for OKC. To that end, we very obviously need more people with planning and design pedigrees, and less people who only care about energy stocks and golf. That would be the problem, not the solution. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that.

I think the problem with threads this long is that they tend to take off in all sorts of tangents, many of which probably should be in their own thread. Comments tend to get, or at least to sound like they get, personal. People make comments about things that sound silly to those who have a particular expertise or talent (cough, cough...golf - it IS a sport and a damn hard one to perfect). Feelings get hurt and retribution occurs. If we could contain the subject to the one posted, it would be great.

Truth is that the SR plan is very controversial with vociferous proponents of both sides. I do not for one minute that SR believes they are harming OKC, the quality of life here, or the future of downtown in any way. I am sure they actually believe they are making it better. However, there are many of us here who believe there was a better way for them to preserve their value and to also follow urbanization guidelines more carefully. SR believes they worked within the law and the other side believes they were bullied. There is truth in both. I understand the passion on the preservationist side as it is like the death penalty...once done there is no remedy to put it back exactly the same. To SR it is just business. Neither side has exhibited a great deal of empathy for the other side. Neither side understands the other. One day, when BOTH sides grow up and learn how to work together, when SR learns to be more open to community suggestions and the preservationists become less business naive, then perhaps everyone will get what they want. Til then it will be aggressive actions followed by pouting and childish retribution. It is time for both sides to grow up.

Regardless, this die is cast. It is time to move on to what can be done to work with what will be there and how to compensate. THAT is something we can all get behind and bring ideas to the forefront for.

In the meantime, leave golf out of the discussion. It is a sport that preserves history and honorable behavior and manmade construction from centuries ago that work with nature. All preservationists should be golfers. In fact, I think we should start a thread about how the new light rail line should connect AT LEAST one golf course...how about Lincoln Park.

I think the problem with threads this long is that they tend to take off in all sorts of tangents, many of which probably should be in their own thread. Comments tend to get, or at least to sound like they get, personal. People make comments about things that sound silly to those who have a particular expertise or talent (cough, cough...golf - it IS a sport and a damn hard one to perfect). Feelings get hurt and retribution occurs. If we could contain the subject to the one posted, it would be great.

Truth is that the SR plan is very controversial with vociferous proponents of both sides. I do not for one minute that SR believes they are harming OKC, the quality of life here, or the future of downtown in any way. I am sure they actually believe they are making it better. However, there are many of us here who believe there was a better way for them to preserve their value and to also follow urbanization guidelines more carefully. SR believes they worked within the law and the other side believes they were bullied. There is truth in both. I understand the passion on the preservationist side as it is like the death penalty...once done there is no remedy to put it back exactly the same. To SR it is just business. Neither side has exhibited a great deal of empathy for the other side. Neither side understands the other. One day, when BOTH sides grow up and learn how to work together, when SR learns to be more open to community suggestions and the preservationists become less business naive, then perhaps everyone will get what they want. Til then it will be aggressive actions followed by pouting and childish retribution. It is time for both sides to grow up.

Regardless, this die is cast. It is time to move on to what can be done to work with what will be there and how to compensate. THAT is something we can all get behind and bring ideas to the forefront for.

In the meantime, leave golf out of the discussion. It is a sport that preserves history and honorable behavior and manmade construction from centuries ago that work with nature. All preservationists should be golfers. In fact, I think we should start a thread about how the new light rail line should connect AT LEAST one golf course...how about Lincoln Park.

Good post. I would also say that it is completely unhelpful to try and slander people and/or businesses just because you dislike their decisions.

Spartan,

I understand that you are mad that Sandridge didn't listen to your facts about historic preservation and urban development. However, that doesn't mean that Aubrey got rid of Tom, that Tom is a madman, that Sandridge has a poor reputation in the community, or that Sandridge is going down the drain.

You simply look like a sore loser and it hurts the credibility of your main points. If you are willing to spread things that are false about Tom Ward and/or Sandridge why would someone believe you are telling the truth about historic preservation or urban development?

The funny thing is that your first instinct is to believe someone is an "emotional Sandridge employee". I happen to agree with your stance on the Sandridge plans on both fronts. I just think it's more complex than to say if Tom Ward doesn't agree with my stance he's evil. That's a crazy leap of (il)logic. Oh, and I'm not a Sandridge employee. :)

I think you completely ignored the even-handedness of Rover's post.

OKC really, really needs SandRidge to be successful, especially now that they've torn everything down and have yet to put anything back.

I don't like what they did and I really don't like how they handled the entire situation, but I'm willing to get over it and root for them because that is by far the best thing for the city and state.

And given the recent raves about the Myriad Gardens, I'm hoping the new plaza and renovated Kerr park will be pleasant surprises. There have obviously been a lot of great advances in landscape architecture, especially the hardscape elements, in the last decade or so.

And even though those buildings were historical with lots of potential, they were all empty and dead holes in the middle of the CBD. I know they could have been renovated but what SandRidge is doing will at least breathe new life and energy into that area, even though not quite in the way many would have preferred.


I'll start to get excited when they begin putting things into place and the vision starts to come together a bit. If it turns out anything like the MG, I'll be happy.

I think the problem with threads this long is that they tend to take off in all sorts of tangents, many of which probably should be in their own thread. Comments tend to get, or at least to sound like they get, personal. People make comments about things that sound silly to those who have a particular expertise or talent (cough, cough...golf - it IS a sport and a damn hard one to perfect). Feelings get hurt and retribution occurs. If we could contain the subject to the one posted, it would be great.

Truth is that the SR plan is very controversial with vociferous proponents of both sides. I do not for one minute that SR believes they are harming OKC, the quality of life here, or the future of downtown in any way. I am sure they actually believe they are making it better. However, there are many of us here who believe there was a better way for them to preserve their value and to also follow urbanization guidelines more carefully. SR believes they worked within the law and the other side believes they were bullied. There is truth in both. I understand the passion on the preservationist side as it is like the death penalty...once done there is no remedy to put it back exactly the same. To SR it is just business. Neither side has exhibited a great deal of empathy for the other side. Neither side understands the other. One day, when BOTH sides grow up and learn how to work together, when SR learns to be more open to community suggestions and the preservationists become less business naive, then perhaps everyone will get what they want. Til then it will be aggressive actions followed by pouting and childish retribution. It is time for both sides to grow up.

Regardless, this die is cast. It is time to move on to what can be done to work with what will be there and how to compensate. THAT is something we can all get behind and bring ideas to the forefront for.

In the meantime, leave golf out of the discussion. It is a sport that preserves history and honorable behavior and manmade construction from centuries ago that work with nature. All preservationists should be golfers. In fact, I think we should start a thread about how the new light rail line should connect AT LEAST one golf course...how about Lincoln Park.

Ah yes, I was being petty with the pot shots against golf. I'll see what I can do about the light rail line to Lincoln Park, so I'll start lobbying Jeff right away.

Rover, you've come around as someone who was staunchly pro-SR to someone who plays the middle of the issue and recognizes the controversy on both sides, which is admirable--although I don't know if it's because you and I have learned we agree on a lot, or just because our arguments got through. The perspective you bring with your expertise and your level-headedness is invaluable. I agree that it would be unfortunate for anyone to attempt retribution against SR or to try and use their activism to get in the way of SR. The point isn't activism for the sake of activism, the point is just for a better OKC. HOWEVER this is the thing that is flawed about the process: A company decides it wants to do something, then it contracts a design team who quietly goes to work drawing up plans. Then SR unveils the plans once they're already finished and then wonders why they aren't unanimously embraced.

At no point did they ever ask for any input about the Kermac or India Temple buildings. If the downtown design process was forced out into the open by future ordinances, that would solve this issue. Inclusiveness would bring different angles and different ideas. But what SR did was bring in an architecture firm from NYC, who knew nothing about OKC, and only took input from them. Then when it became evident that they needed to reach out for community leverage to get this plan through, they just worked through their buddy network, giving high-placed people a form letter of support that they could sign without even seeking their real support. Do we really think that this commons is exactly how Larry Nichols would have pursued the matter? Devon is doing a bang-up project that is totally different in nature from this. Then we also have the case of Jane Jenkins who privately supported Keep Downtown Urban but professionally had to support SR. That looks really bad.

So, I agree with you wholeheartedly that SR didn't go out of their way to ruin downtown. It's just that they don't care if downtown is ruined or benefited, one way or another, at the end of the day. They are in the business of energy, which is obvious, but they could have at least solicited community input for such a large project. They not only did not, but they opposed community input. Keep Downtown Urban tried to work with them at many times, but the only way that SR wanted to include the preservationist group was to coerce them to agree on what was already decided. That's not inclusion.

It is inappropriate for me to call Tom Ward a madman, despite everything I have heard that apparently he is. And that the rumor that Aubrey wanted him gone is out there for sure. But I have never said I wish SR would go away. If anything, I am just expressing my cynical recognition of the path we're headed down. I just don't see this ending well. Maybe I'll be able to make some money with a book about it in the future, but hopefully it works out and SR finished its plazas, stays around to actually maintain it, and finishes its new buildings. We shall see.

And even though those buildings were historical with lots of potential, they were all empty and dead holes in the middle of the CBD. I know they could have been renovated but what SandRidge is doing will at least breathe new life and energy into that area, even though not quite in the way many would have preferred.


I'll start to get excited when they begin putting things into place and the vision starts to come together a bit. If it turns out anything like the MG, I'll be happy.


We are still talking about a corporate plaza right? Here is a challenege - what is the most used corporate plaza in America?

First of all, golf is not a sport. Feel free to talk basketball or football (please no NFL) with me, though. What I was referring to was the over-the-top way in which your post came off. It's better when you take a deep breath and use measured, sensible replies. Feel free to crack a facetious joke toward us like Rover, or against SandRidge like we do. But there's a line. I sense that we're currently in the midst of another onslaught from defensive SandRidge employees who have heard about this thread, but that's just a hunch, supported by seeing new posters who are emotionally defending a company that isn't very well-admired in the community right now.

I'm going to focus on one remark you said.

"'Two ugly ass buildings' - Are you trying to tell me those buildings weren't an eye sore? Cause if you think those were good looking buildings I believe you are the one who has lost credibility."

This was a cool building. Great potential for some cool NY-style lofts. In fact, that's what some people wanted to do to it. See that ugly window-less behemoth towering above in the top left corner? Why couldn't SandRidge have torn THAT building down instead? Why do good buildings have to be demolished so that we are forced to look at the truly hideous buildings downtown??

We now also know that we were right that the original facade is, no was, almost entirely in-tact underneath the false facade. Just as the man who put the facade on asserted on his death bed.

I am mostly appreciative, in hindsight, that SR proposed to tear down the other 3 buildings. They did need to go. But it's the old political reconciling trick where you package the controversial in with the palatable and then pretend the opposition is mostly organized against the palatable. Great way of marginalizing the people who stand in your way. And we also play the "momentum" card lately, although hopefully now that card will be put to rest.



So what makes you think that your post is unique? Just curious. Do you think we haven't had a few onslaughts of defensive SandRidge employees already? Do you think we care that they are now specializing their entire corporate strategy to focus on hedged oil shares at a time when oil is at its peak? Gee, which oil bust does that remind me of...

No, I don't care about the "sport" of golf. No, I could give a damn about the oil industry. This is not about what's best for SandRidge. This is about what's best for OKC. To that end, we very obviously need more people with planning and design pedigrees, and less people who only care about energy stocks and golf. That would be the problem, not the solution. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that.

"Feel free to crack a joke against us like we about SandRidge". I'm sorry, I forgot calling Tom Ward crazy and a madman was just a joke. I forgot that saying you hope SD will go under just to spite their development plans is a joke. You should look in the mirror before you post.

"See that ugly window-less behemoth towering above in the top left corner? Why couldn't SandRidge have torn THAT building down instead?" - You're kidding right. You honestly can not expect to be taken serious with comments like this. You want to know why SD didn't tear down that building?........because SD doesn't own that building! Wow.

"So what makes you think that your post is unique?" - Honestly, I don't think my post is unique. There was just too much negativity against SD in this thread and it seemed like it was the same four people bashing SD over and over and over. I don't think my post was unique just like I don't think any of your posts are unique. How many times do you need to say that you don't like SD? We get it. You don't like them. Move on.

And I don't get how you're going to try and argue about oil when you said you don't give a damn about it. What's next? Are you going to try and argue about whether Tiger Woods or Jack Nicklaus is better? And then when you realize you said some incorrect things you're just going to say you don't give a damn?

And you've skipped over, several times now, about how Tom Ward is a mad man and is crazy. Why don't you back these statements up?

So, I agree with you wholeheartedly that SR didn't go out of their way to ruin downtown. It's just that they don't care if downtown is ruined or benefited, one way or another, at the end of the day. They are in the business of energy, which is obvious, but they could have at least solicited community input for such a large project. They not only did not, but they opposed community input. Keep Downtown Urban tried to work with them at many times, but the only way that SR wanted to include the preservationist group was to coerce them to agree on what was already decided. That's not inclusion.

Once again, this is just your opinion. Some people want to keep that "corridor" feeling and some wanted to tear down outdated buildings. But the fact that you keep trying to pass your opinions as fact is ridiculous. To you, yes they ruined downtown. To others, they are only helping it.

We are still talking about a corporate plaza right? Here is a challenege - what is the most used corporate plaza in America?

Rockefeller? It seems like a plaza in a city with 20 million people wouldn't be a bad idea. I just want to make sure I don't go against the point you're going to make against plazas...


Once again, this is just your opinion. Some people want to keep that "corridor" feeling and some wanted to tear down outdated buildings. But the fact that you keep trying to pass your opinions as fact is ridiculous. To you, yes they ruined downtown. To others, they are only helping it.

I'm confused. Is it fact or opinion that SR didn't intentionally try to ruin downtown? Or are you just arguing over semantics, as it seems.

It's ironic that you two feel duty calls you to this thread because of the negativity toward SR. So you add your own hostile negativity, when it would seem like a better idea would be to offer reasons why SR Plaza is a good development. You all have offered none. Nada. You have only offered more negativity, so if anything, I don't think you're exactly "winning anyone over" to your side.

Another thing that is wrong about your post is that these things are opinions. Actually, it's more of a matter of urban planning establishment vs. oil and gas establishment. I'm more than happy to leave the oil and gas matters to those experts but I will be damned if some energy industry nitwit is going to tell me that someone's urban design critique is an "opinion." These concepts are not wishy washy ideas, they are remarkable points of urban planning knowledge supported by decades of research on cities. A streetwall is a real concept. Sense of place is a real concept. Density is a real concept. Definition of space is a real concept.

What do you actually know about urban development? Urban design? Urban planning? It doesn't seem like a whole lot, especially if you contend that the KerMac was a bad building. SR could have listened and saved that one strategic building and this whole matter would have blown over, and we would all be friends. Or they could have just rid their hands of the Robinson-fronting properties and made a profit off of the sale to the local developers who wanted to see it renovated. This was about stubbornness from the beginning. And now you two clowns (yes, I called you a name, because I'm not a saint, I'm just right) come in here and show us more typical SR stubbornness. You have offered zero positive thoughts. All you've done is make personal attacks and impugn any reasonable ideas in this thread. Furthermore, you can thumb your nose at urban planning knowledge all you want, but it's that knowledge that is making OKC into a better place, not the oil and gas industry. You can't build a city with people who only know how to hedge oil shares to make millions of dollars while it lasts. You have to have a more diverse knowledge pool, which this city has thumbed its nose at as well. Go move back to Amarillo if you prefer a dusty oil patch town that is slowly rotting away into a suburban slumhole that nobody cares about.

The last thing OKC needs is civic inspiration from a place like Armadillo.

Rockefeller plaza. The difference is the ratio of plaza's in NYC vs. OKC...not that plazas are always right or always wrong. I think you have to take entire area's character and use into consideration, not just an address at a time.

Sure, the geologists and engineers probably wouldn't be out of work for very long. But what about everyone else? All of the people in accounting, records, out in the fields, etc?

Those companies are expanding and hiring in all departments. Just look at Chesapeake's frequent "new hire" full page ads. Granted there might be some small consolidation, but how many do you think would really remain unemployed?

Rockefeller? It seems like a plaza in a city with 20 million people wouldn't be a bad idea. I just want to make sure I don't go against the point you're going to make against plazas...


I wasn't trying to make a point, I was just trying to think of one corporate plaza that does what the pro-SR Commons supporters say this plaza is going to do. I couldn't think of one and I guess Rockefeller Center is about as close as you can get even though it is actually a tourist attraction with the ice rick, restaurants, and Christmas tree lighting.

I haven't been around Downtown to much because of the 180 construction and demolition work ... but I was downtown today. Without a doubt the Sandridge Building IS one hideous building. Looks far worse standing all alone

^^^
LOL

A case of "be careful what you wish for?"

I don't think it looks all that bad if the second tower and the "connector" building had ever been built per Kerr-McGee's original rendering...think I saw it somewhere over on Doug's blog.

I haven't been around Downtown to much because of the 180 construction and demolition work ... but I was downtown today. Without a doubt the Sandridge Building IS one hideous building. Looks far worse standing all alone

One thing is for sure - that building was intended to be viewed from a distance, not up close. That is probably one of the reasons it was built right in the middle of the block surrounded by other buildings at the base.

True. In complete fairness to Sandridge, it's really never been a spectacular to view building. With the recent demolitions and all the road construction around its base, its simply an uglier pimple than it was