Bluedogok, We certainly have to pay. My wife and kids are on her plan through the company she works for. On her plan they are on the top teir, for $7.00 less they would have been on the most basic HMO thru my insurance. Heres a nice tidbit of info. The city for no explained reason has offered to pay $1000.00 less for FD employees. Every other city employee will get an additional $1040.00. At the union meeting last night it was explained that we would be seeing a premium increase of 24.9% over last year.
Thanks, I know that has been a point of contention at times publicly in most union negotiations and with the APD negotiations down here. The AFD union tends to not get as public as the APD union...most of the time.

I know what I pay for insurance premiums has gone up every year and now the out-of-pocket is going up significantly and most others in the private sector know this is commonplace anymore.

You didn't get home from that Union meeting at 12:03AM this morning did you? Are you the Union rep assigned to OKCTalk?

One of these days OKCTalk is going to wake-up and bring real moderation to this free-for-all forum. When it happens and civility and no personal attacks are part of the agreement to post, and it's enforced, --- some of you won't know what to write. This place has run off so many quality posters because of its ultra-lax moderation policies. It's almost as bad as NewsOK and I won't even tread there anymore. I thought I'd try coming back but it's just one slap at each other after the next. Snarky, angry, bitter - it's nothing like a couple of the truly moderated forums I have been a part of for years where we all feel like family. Here, it's a family all right - just a highly dysfunctional one. It seems all disagreements are angry and snarky. This site needs serious moderation, it will die without it. I already see nothing but the same dozen or two posting all the time. Such potential just going to waste.

One of these days OKCTalk is going to wake-up and bring real moderation to this free-for-all forum. When it happens and civility and no personal attacks are part of the agreement to post, and it's enforced, --- some of you won't know what to write. This place has run off so many quality posters because of its ultra-lax moderation policies. It's almost as bad as NewsOK and I won't even tread there anymore. I thought I'd try coming back but it's just one slap at each other after the next. Snarky, angry, bitter - it's nothing like a couple of the truly moderated forums I have been a part of for years where we all feel like family. Here, it's a family all right - just a highly dysfunctional one. It seems all disagreements are angry and snarky. This site needs serious moderation, it will die without it. I already see nothing but the same dozen or two posting all the time. Such potential just going to waste.

I wasn't being civil?

Mid: I think his point was, how many professions require pay cuts etc to hire more people? My current employer had to let a few people go just over a year ago. We did get hours cut etc in the hopes that more people wouldn't have to be let go. So far, it seems to have worked, but it was to keep existing jobs and not hire more.

Thank you Larry, that is exactly my point. I apologize if I did a poor job in presenting it.

I wasn't being civil?

You were being as civil as we've come to expect from you.

you were being as civil as we've come to expect from you.

lol

OKC by Square Miles 621.2 = 1.5 Firefighters per square mile.
Wichita Kansas by Square Miles 115.1 = 3.8 FireFighters per square mile.

Thanks for that stat, Aaron - it was the first question I had. (clearly I am behind on this thread...)

If you all agreed to work 25 years before collecting retirement, that would probably take care of the staffing issues. Most of the rest of us work 40+ years before being eligible to retire. I think it would be a good idea to do the same with the military. We pay with our taxes for a lot of 40 year olds to collect retirement and work at a second career. My son is one of the ones who will be eligible to retire at 42, but that doesn't make it right.

I'm not sure they would be in shape to do the job unless they are behind a desk if they have to work 40 years to retire.

ok, by your logic, you must not care about public safety at all.. If you did, you'd be a fire fighter...

touche!

Response times to rural OKC should be in line with response times of rural fire departments elsewhere, not in line with response times within the city core. You live in the boonies, you accept the consequences of dealing with the boonies.

Agreed. But I sure hope they show up in time to save my barn. I have a fire hydrant out front and everything.

Why does Oklahoma City have more than twice the national average of firefighters?

http://www.nfpa.org/categoryList.asp?categoryID=417&URL=Research/Fire%20reports/Fire%20service%20statistics&cookie_test=1

Is it because we had the Oklahoma City bombing and there was such a focus on first responders that didn't catch on with the rest of the country until 911?

I guess it isn't just OKC

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/Police-March-against-jody-weis-wednesday-in-chicago-102943719.html

Chicago's firefighter union is powerful and I am not sure you can compare them to the rest of the departments. I know some guys from up there and it is pretty intense, politically.

I think the size of the fire department has more to do with urban sprawl than with the bombing. We had a situation in the 1980's where we once literally ran out of firefighters and lost about a half dozen homes in a south side subdivision. Not 'out in the boonies' — this was in the developed part of the city.

1983, Lakehurst subdivision, 11 houses totally involved. 1998, Lakridge Run, 6 houses burn. It happens, too many stucture on fire. No manpower left. It's heartbreaking to explain to someone why you are making no effort to save their house because it is too far gone.

Mike, how many structural fires are there in Oklahoma City in a year on average?

I'm not the Mike you asked and I certainly have no clue, but I know this: Emergency Services must be prepared - period. It's like the fire department at the airport. There are never crashes at Will Rogers, but they still plan, train and prepare as if one will happen this afternoon. It's all about readiness before the fact instead of having to explain why they weren't ready after the fact.

There are never crashes at Will Rogers, but they still plan, train and prepare as if one will happen this afternoon. It's all about readiness before the fact instead of having to explain why they weren't ready after the fact.

Another meaning to the term, "drill baby, drill."

1983, Lakehurst subdivision, 11 houses totally involved. 1998, Lakridge Run, 6 houses burn.
I remember the Lakehurst fires, I have always liked the neighborhood. I think cedar shake shingles was a requirement there and the flames jumped from house to house catching the roofs on fire because those shingles were not much more than kindling.


It happens, too many stucture on fire. No manpower left. It's heartbreaking to explain to someone why you are making no effort to save their house because it is too far gone.
Kind of what those people in Boulder Canyon (Colorado) have faced in the past couple of weeks and the forest fires up there.

Bluedogok, We certainly have to pay. My wife and kids are on her plan through the company she works for. On her plan they are on the top teir, for $7.00 less they would have been on the most basic HMO thru my insurance. Heres a nice tidbit of info. The city for no explained reason has offered to pay $1000.00 less for FD employees. Every other city employee will get an additional $1040.00. At the union meeting last night it was explained that we would be seeing a premium increase of 24.9% over last year.

And the Fire Department has no one to blame but themselves, they are the ones that decided to opt out of participating in the health insurance with the rest of the employees, so suck it up, the grass isn't always greener.

I like the police and the firefighters.

Junkie, Can you explain why we are to be punished for taking responsibilty for our own health insurance? As a retiree from the city I'm sure your going to feel it too!

Two years ago the City leaders paid $250,000. ( +/- ) for a total compensation study. The study was done to show Council how the Firefighters in OKC had a much richer benefit package, and were overpaid, when compared to the Citys peer market. The results of the total comp. study were never shown to Council, or made public. Strange, I wonder why?

Earlier this year, City management convinced the Council that there must be wage concessions from the 3 unions for the City to survive. The Council made it clear that if one group takes a pay cut so does everyone else, including management. It appears the 3 Unions unwillingness to take long term pay cuts has spared management from taking those same cuts. Why hasn't management shown some leadership and cut their wages voluntarily?

Earlier this year, City management convinced the Council that there must be wage concessions from the 3 unions for the City to survive. The Council made it clear that if one group takes a pay cut so does everyone else, including management. It appears the 3 Unions unwillingness to take long term pay cuts has spared management from taking those same cuts. Why hasn't management shown some leadership and cut their wages voluntarily?
I've not been following this so this is probably a dumb question. Andy, do you mean that the unions' management haven't cut their wages voluntarily, or do you mean that corresponding city officials haven't taken that course?

I've not been following this so this is probably a dumb question. Andy, do you mean that the unions' management haven't cut their wages voluntarily, or do you mean that corresponding city officials haven't taken that course?The later.

So, Doug, do you have any info on relative level of current pay of either the union management or the city's? How does each rank among its peer cities (either in the area or among cities of similar size)?

Please tell me this doesn't happen in Okc!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39270785/ns/?Gt1=43001


An investigation is under way after a naked Washington, D.C., firefighter was apparently caught on camera preparing food for a party in a firehouse.

These are the types of stupid complaints that happen when you desegregate the sexes in certain workplaces.

Oops! Was going to comment on MSNBC segment, but then realized it's not the thread topic. Mods may delete this.

Please tell me this doesn't happen in Okc!

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39270785/ns/?Gt1=43001cooking in the nude, or being filmed while cooking in the nude?

These are the types of stupid complaints that happen when you desegregate the sexes in certain workplaces.

So there should never be any female firefighters because they might have to encounter nude male firefighters cooking in the firehouse kitchen? That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. I'm a male and certainly wouldn't want to see any nude males in the kitchen cooking for me either.

I guess it's only sort of what I'm saying... I just think this country blows nude out of proportion... especially in a very different sort of workplace like a firehouse... I'm mean that HOME... not like being nude at the grocery store to while fighting fires.

If you look up more information on this story the photo was taken at about 3am and it's not like he was doing anything remotely lavacious.

I just think people get bent out of shape by the stupidest stuff. Let your kids play ultra violet video games... but nudity ... NO WAY.

Honestly... the women I know love firemen...to have a brawny fireman whip them up something delicious in the buff... sounds like every woman's fantasy to me.

Junkie, Can you explain why we are to be punished for taking responsibilty for our own health insurance? As a retiree from the city I'm sure your going to feel it too!

Your not being punished, everyone has or will have an increase in their premiums. My premiums increased last year, I now pay $365 per month for my health insurance. (still a bargain at that price)

Earlier this year, City management convinced the Council that there must be wage concessions from the 3 unions for the City to survive. The Council made it clear that if one group takes a pay cut so does everyone else, including management. It appears the 3 Unions unwillingness to take long term pay cuts has spared management from taking those same cuts. Why hasn't management shown some leadership and cut their wages voluntarily?

They have. Why do you act as though Union Employees are the only ones asked to take cuts ?

Earlier this year, City management convinced the Council that there must be wage concessions from the 3 unions for the City to survive. The Council made it clear that if one group takes a pay cut so does everyone else, including management. It appears the 3 Unions unwillingness to take long term pay cuts has spared management from taking those same cuts. Why hasn't management shown some leadership and cut their wages voluntarily?

They have. Why do you act as though Union Employees are the only ones asked to take cuts ?Once again you have proven one of two things... you have no idea what your talking about, or, your a liar. Most likely its a little of both.

I just think people get bent out of shape by the stupidest stuff. Let your kids play ultra violet video games... but nudity ... NO WAY.

I think part of that is because nudity is nudity and it is an easy call whether it is happening or not. In contrast, violence is such a subjective area that it is hard to get a consensus. Chopping off nuns' heads is one thing but smacking a kid with a ruler might horrify some but remind others of the silly cartoons we all had as kids.

I had planned to comment on Bryan Painters reporting in yesterdays Oklahoman. He made the comment that the Fire union had received a similar contract offer. That goes back to what similar means. Up to today, the Firefighters union had only received offers that were significantly less in benefits than other city unions had been offered. Today the city offered the Firefighters a contract that is equal to what all other city employees receive. It's nice to know you are appreciated!

I see your still the same andy, as always, instead of offering a counterpoint, you resort to name calling.

Most of us work 25 years or more before retiring, probably in the 90-95 percentile range at least. One of the reasons being trying to get our kids through college before retiring.
It would be nice to work 40 years in the fire service, but our bodies wont hold up to the abuse, day in and day out. When I hired on the fire dept. the avg life expectancy of a OKC firefighter was 56.7 yrs, while the rest of the population avg life expectancy was in the 75 yr old range. I have known many guys retire and die 3-5 years after retiring after 25 years on the job. Heck of a deal....

Wah wah. Most of us toil in the private sector where we don't have unions and if your job is superfluous, it's axed. Pretty much the opposite of firemen.

Firemen on this board are unreal. They're the most represented porfession in the city, I'd guess, and they just whine and cry more than anyone. It takes all sorts of bureaucracy to alter fire funding to lay off folks. It takes one bad day for someone in the private sector to get fired.

Wah wah. Most of us toil in the private sector where we don't have unions and if your job is superfluous, it's axed. Pretty much the opposite of firemen.

Firemen on this board are unreal. They're the most represented porfession in the city, I'd guess, and they just whine and cry more than anyone. It takes all sorts of bureaucracy to alter fire funding to lay off folks. It takes one bad day for someone in the private sector to get fired.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_itVyZKmrM

Wah wah. Most of us toil in the private sector where we don't have unions and if your job is superfluous, it's axed. Pretty much the opposite of firemen.

Firemen on this board are unreal. They're the most represented porfession in the city, I'd guess, and they just whine and cry more than anyone. It takes all sorts of bureaucracy to alter fire funding to lay off folks. It takes one bad day for someone in the private sector to get fired.

All over the US the govt workers packages are being scrutinized. Most come up more secure and overrall favorable to private sector. And yet they seemingly have little appreciation for what they have and what the common taxpayers are going through. There seems to be a sense of entitlement.

RCJunkie, good to see your out of the coma.

No coma, just busy, decided to re-enter the work force on a part time busy, new job requires lots of travel. (besides that, everytime I get on OKCTALK, I leave with a headache and hurt feelings. LOL