Thanks Pete. So he has until 2020 to lease it out.

Thanks Pete. So he has until 2020 to lease it out.

No, that's just what he said in his application.

There is nothing in the loan agreements that require the building even be open for business, ever. Just has to repay the borrowed money.

You're right again. He said he only intends to lease it out by then. So really we might have given him a low interst loan for nothing. Any idea how many of the types of loans we have been handing out?

Well, it wasn't for nothing. The asbestos did get removed.

My point all the way along is Dowell now needs to get this building open for business.

It actually makes me feel better to know he has $1.5 million in loans he has to repay over the next several years, because that will be a good motivator to actually start leasing some of it out. Or sell it for a profit.

Very true. That's part of the "fun" of re-habbing a building, so you have to know you're going to have to do these things going in. It's unfortunate that it's taking this long to get moving, so the danger here is that he wont have it ready for tenants before he runs out of money. He files bankrupcty and we're left with an incomplete project. The bank sells to some cheap buyer (like the FNC) and we get strung along for another 10 years before anything is done.

How is it that the property taxes on a 19 story office building is only 2X as much as the property taxes on my house (even if we are on the same size lot)?

Because you live in Florida, where property taxes suck?

WOW what a great photo... but LMAO at how prominent Legacy is there...

Legacy is such a total abortion.

Because you live in Florida, where property taxes suck?
About the same way in Taxes.....I mean Texas.

Legacy is such a total abortion.

Legacy is pretty crappy, but if someone could at least do the retail better (start with the awnings) it would help. Considering where urban expectations were when it was built, it could have been worse. Maybe I'm wrong, but it probably would have been easy to plop a surburban style complex down there. At least it has an urban design, even if the materials and execution were lacking. Are there any other improvements that could be made to make Legacy salvageable?

Because you live in Florida, where property taxes suck?


About the same way in Taxes.....I mean Texas.

You know, here is the thing, it is cheaper for OKC property owners to sit on abandoned property and let simple inflation raise the value of their property than it is for them to put that property to work. Between my neighbor's single family home and mine, we pay more property taxes than a 19 story 184,426 square foot office building in downtown Oklahoma city. If people in OKC want to solve this problem guess what - property taxes are going to have to go up. It should simply be to expensive to do NOTHING with urban property. In this case Dowell should be going deeper in the red everyday someone isn't renting space from him. Open it, or sell it to someone who will.

Also, the city needs to start putting some stipulations in these loans that require the building to be open by a certain date. If Dowell can take out the loans and afford to not open the building until after the loans are repaid he didn't need the loans to begin with.

(fauxnews9 ) Tonight at 10 pm, here how OKCTalker JTF advocates significant property tax increases for Oklahoma businessmen. Then stayed Tune as David Payne tells us how an unexpected cold front is bringing a surprise blizzard to Hell

LOL Kevin. However, if anyone else has any ideas how to get these underperforming properties going again I am all ears.

I imagine a dangling carrot incentive approach would be more effective than a whack with a stick on the wallet approach. Carrot needs to be big enough to spur forward motion by a reluctant critter.

In nature, when equilibrium exists and there is no motion, a slight increase in pressure on one side, accompanied with a slight decrease in pressure on the other is enough to create movement. Large tax increases won't pass. Large incentives won't pass. But small changes to both at the same time, along with a greasing of the channel (more efficient processes, shorter action deadlines, etc.) should be enough to gain momentum. Small changes to each should be much easier to pass.

...Are there any other improvements that could be made to make Legacy salvageable?
I think that doing away with the awnings and using a paint scheme that breaks up and de-emphasizes the large expanses of EIFS would immediately make Legacy fairly palatable, overall. As has been discussed, I actually believe it is far from the worst layout. It is pretty urban in nature, and the biggest legitimate complaints you can make against it relate to materials and finish.

You can't do much about the roof, but I was looking at the skyline photo above the other day, and simply envisioning the building with a paint color closer to the brick (more of a putty rather than stark off-white) made it far more decent to look at, at least in my mind's eye. Breaking it up even further with a slightly decorative paint scheme would be even better.

I think that doing away with the awnings and using a paint scheme that breaks up and de-emphasizes the large expanses of EIFS would immediately make Legacy fairly palatable, overall. As has been discussed, I actually believe it is far from the worst layout. It is pretty urban in nature, and the biggest legitimate complaints you can make against it relate to materials and finish.

You can't do much about the roof, but I was looking at the skyline photo above the other day, and simply envisioning the building with a paint color closer to the brick (more of a putty rather than stark off-white) made it far more decent to look at, at least in my mind's eye. Breaking it up even further with a slightly decorative paint scheme would be even better.

I agree on a reddish-brown paint job, but I think breaking it up would either look garish or over-emphasize the pre-fab facade.

To quote my friend Ron Frantz: "don't faint, it's only paint."

You know, here is the thing, it is cheaper for OKC property owners to sit on abandoned property and let simple inflation raise the value of their property than it is for them to put that property to work. Between my neighbor's single family home and mine, we pay more property taxes than a 19 story 184,426 square foot office building in downtown Oklahoma city. If people in OKC want to solve this problem guess what - property taxes are going to have to go up. It should simply be to expensive to do NOTHING with urban property. In this case Dowell should be going deeper in the red everyday someone isn't renting space from him. Open it, or sell it to someone who will.

Also, the city needs to start putting some stipulations in these loans that require the building to be open by a certain date. If Dowell can take out the loans and afford to not open the building until after the loans are repaid he didn't need the loans to begin with.
In Texas the difference between property taxes on "improved property" and "unimproved property" warrants demolition of many buildings that are ripe for renovation. If that was the case in OKC there would have been very few buildings left in Bricktown, Automobile Alley, Film Row, etc. to be redone, just parking lots. There was a Texas Architect magazine article back when I was working at an architecture firm in Downtown Dallas (91-93) and it stated that something like 55% of the property at that time in the Dallas CBD was parking lots, not parking structures but surface parking lots. The article alluded to the fact that it was cheaper to take it down and pave it than pay the property tax on an abandoned building. I could look out of our 27th floor window in the Arts District and see a veritable sea of surface parking. The lot across the street still had flooring from the 2-3 story buildings that used to be on that property. The revenue from parking couldn't pay for demolition and new paving but it could from the property tax abatement from an "improved property" to an "unimproved property" rather quickly given the property tax rates in the cities in Texas. Now in the twenty years since the downtown market has rebounded many of those lots have been developed but it took twenty years for those properties to rebound from the oil and real estate busts that happened in the 80's in Dallas.

In Texas the difference between property taxes on "improved property" and "unimproved property" warrants demolition of many buildings that are ripe for renovation. If that was the case in OKC there would have been very few buildings left in Bricktown, Automobile Alley, Film Row, etc. to be redone, just parking lots.

That is easy to fix - just invert the tax structure. Unimproved lot pays the highest tax. Parking lots pay the next highest tax. In fact, maybe we could tax by use/density with mixed use getting a multiplier less than 1 to encourage more of it. Of course, this kind of tax structure would have to be restricted to certain districts because I would just as soon land at the suburban fringe stay undeveloped.

That is easy to fix - just invert the tax structure. Unimproved lot pays the highest tax. Parking lots pay the next highest tax. In fact, maybe we could tax by use/density with mixed use getting a multiplier less than 1 to encourage more of it. Of course, this kind of tax structure would have to be restricted to certain districts because I would just as soon land at the suburban fringe stay undeveloped.

Without considering all of the ramifications (and after a few beers), this seems like a good idea on the surface.

That is easy to fix - just invert the tax structure. Unimproved lot pays the highest tax. Parking lots pay the next highest tax. ..


Increasing taxes on parking lot owners will just increase the cost of parking for the downtown employees and businesses. The taxes will just get passed on to the consumer.

Increasing taxes on parking lot owners will just increase the cost of parking for the downtown employees and businesses. The taxes will just get passed on to the consumer.

It would yes so we might have to wait until an alternative means of transportation is available to get downtown, like regional rail. On the other hand, if we do it before there is an alternative it would help get a lot of support behind getting regional rail on-line faster. Maybe we could even use the money collected from the tax on vacant lots and parking lots to help fund mass transit.

This is from Richard Mize's article today about downtown office space:


Owner Rick Dowell denied that Friday, and said the building at 250 N Robinson will remain an office building.

I don't know much about the Dowell Center...is it empty or in use?

Been completely empty for two decades now.

Wow, what a shame... and it seems like a big time missed opportunity

Been completely empty for two decades now.

He can't really call it an office building then, can he?

I'm sure Dowell is waiting for the Parkside Building and Kerr / Couch Park to be finished before starting any renovation.

But if he doesn't start shortly thereafter, he should be leaned on pretty hard.

I know the building ownership was a mess when he acquired it and that there was an asbestos problem but we are closing in on 20 years now. Time to get busy... It's the last empty building of any significance in the CBD.

I am not a builder or owner of a large building but it just seems if you started work now it would come closer to dovetailing the end of the Dowell Center renovation with the completion of other downtown projects.

OKCTalk - Vacant 20-story downtown office building to start major renovation (http://www.okctalk.com/content/149-vacant-20-story.html)

Hallelujah. This and the news that the FNC sale has been cleared to proceed, both in the same day? Fantastic news for the city.

I wonder which one will finish first - Dowell Center or Parkside.

I absolutely LOVE the original art deco building. Is there any chance that could be restored?

No, only very minor changes to the exterior.

Until First National and Ramsey Tower were finished, it was the city's first true skyscraper.

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/Photos/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/PetroleumBuilding1947.jpg?_subject_uid=9322497&w=AAAFQ0jhkvzVSBR2J9YN4BAyKdDdXRktCFhAsa_0WP_Abg

http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j286/UnFrSaKn/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/Petroleum%20Building/petroleumbuilding1953-4.jpg

No, only very minor changes to the exterior.

That's not really the answer to bchris' question, but rather an explanation of what Dowell is willing to do after sitting on this bldg for years, including years after receiving public assistance to do something.

He told me he will be gutting the entire structure; walls, wiring, everything.

The outside will be cleaned up after the bordering construction substantially stops. The two top levels will receive some minor exterior changes; probably new windows.

Street level of this building is pretty great and the lobby will get a full renovation as well.

There is a lot of office space in this building and it will make a big difference once it is relatively full. More people, more street life, more customers for everything downtown.

I'm hoping Dowell's idea of Class A space is not what many of us would think of as Class B. I say this only because of his track record with other projects and remodels.

Good quality Class B space is equally needed.

The building has smaller floorplates and Dowell specializes in the small office users, so I think there will be plenty of demand and appeal.

I'm sure the building will quickly fill up, especially with available and connected parking.

Is the original exterior still intact beneath the cladding that currently covers it?

I hate that they're not removing the cladding. Such a beautiful building is hiding beneath. I guess putting cladding over buildings was the thing to do in the '60s and '70s.

I hate that they're not removing the cladding. Such a beautiful building is hiding beneath. I guess putting cladding over buildings was the thing to do in the '60s and '70s.

I asked Steve L. one time about all the crappy cladding done by Kerr McGee and I think he said the guy making those decisions was from Soviet Russia.

With an underground walkway from parking garage to building lobby I wouldn't expect a large increase in street-life.

I asked Steve L. one time about all the crappy cladding done by Kerr McGee and I think he said the guy making those decisions was from Soviet Russia.

With an underground walkway from parking garage to building lobby I wouldn't expect a large increase in street-life.

Any retail component being included with the street level would help improve street life. And while the connection to the parking lot isn't ideal...you do realize that a large portion of downtown workers only use the underground during bad weather or extreme heat/cold, right? During mornings, lunches and after work, there are a large amount of people walking at street level most days. Based on what I've seen, the main obstacles to improved street life in the CBD (or at least this part of it) are the abandoned Dowell Center, an underutilized retail level at Park Ave., a mostly empty First National, and a lack of highrise (or any other type) of residential in the middle of the CBD. Few live in the CBD and outside of Kitchen 324 there aren't many reasons to walk to this part of the CBD outside of business hours. Make First National a hotel/housing development, open the retail in First National to the Street, fill up Dowell and add retail to the first floor, and I think we will be well on the way to a major improvement.
Additionally, I hope whoever takes over OGE looks hard at adding retail to the ground floor and going residential.

Good quality Class B space is equally needed.

The building has smaller floorplates and Dowell specializes in the small office users, so I think there will be plenty of demand and appeal.

I'm sure the building will quickly fill up, especially with available and connected parking.

Did he mention doing any type of retail or restaurant space on the first floor?

I wonder if there is anything inside worth salvaging.

Is the original exterior still intact beneath the cladding that currently covers it?

The original facade was destroyed.

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/Photos/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/OKCSkylineJuly1963.jpg?_subject_uid=9322497&w=AADT1rD4QPQFl4i6CzCGNTpZjJ8csKSbIETV9USroVDD5A

I guess I totally misunderstood all of the work that had been going on with this building over the last few years. Was all that time spent only on the exterior? I could have sworn people claimed all over this forum that Dowell was leased out for residential a long time ago (and I seem to remember arguing that wasn't the case and was berated for it).

The original facade was destroyed.

https://dl-web.dropbox.com/get/Public/Photos/Old%20Oklahoma%20City/OKCSkylineJuly1963.jpg?_subject_uid=9322497&w=AADT1rD4QPQFl4i6CzCGNTpZjJ8csKSbIETV9USroVDD5A

Will, I only see a broken image icon. Can you please repost your photo?

Office ambitions: Dowell Center renovation could alleviate space shortage
By: Molly M. Fleming The Journal Record May 4, 20150


OKLAHOMA CITY – Finding Class A office space, especially downtown, can be difficult. Dowell Properties President Rick Dowell wants to make it a little easier.

In April, he purchased the American Fidelity Assurance Co. property, 2000 N. Classen Blvd. While he’s working on finding a tenant for those three office towers, he is also renovating the Dowell Center, a vacant tower at 222 N. Robinson Ave. Once the center is renovated into Class A office space, Dowell will have about 500,000 square feet of office property on the market.

“We’re gutting the (Dowell Center) down to its bricks,” Dowell said. “The building will be separately metered, with each suite having its own heating and air unit.”

He said some suites will be a full floor, while others will measure only about 2,500 square feet. The building’s floor plates range in size, with the first floor measuring 8,900 square feet, the second at 9,000 square feet, the third to 18th floors at 10,000 square feet, and the 19th floor measuring 6,400 square feet.

Dowell plans to start interior demolition by the end of May. That work is expected to take a couple of months, and then he will build it back, floor by floor, based on leasing.

He said the city’s work on Couch Drive is scheduled to finish by June. Work on Central Business District streets, as well as asbestos in the building, kept him from renovating the center earlier.

“We held off on it because you couldn’t get anyone to go into the building with all the chaos going on,” he said. “The space (The Journal Record) was in (on the first floor), we could have leased that four times. But we couldn’t get anyone in there with this mess out on the street.”

Dowell Properties purchased the building in 1995 for $350,000 at a county auction. Dowell spent three years and $3.5 million removing the asbestos. The Journal Record moved in shortly after he purchased the building. The newspaper needed a new home after being displaced by the April 19, 1995, bombing at the Alfred P. Murrah Federal Building. The publication left in 2006, and the building has been vacant since.

Price Edwards & Co. Broker Tre Depuy said once the building is renovated, the vacant space will create a big bump in the office market.

“If you haven’t included the space in your (market reports), you’re talking about adding 190,000 square feet to the market, which is about 4.5-percent increase in vacancy,” he said. “That’s pretty significant. Anytime anything shifts 4.5 percent the other way, that’s something to keep your eyes on.”

He said he doesn’t expect Dowell to face any problems leasing it, with companies being displaced from the First National Center, and other businesses trying to get into downtown.

“If he’s going to start renovating and putting people into the building, he legitimately feels like he’ll have no issue,” Dupuy said.

CBRE Vice President Jim Austin said the only challenge he sees with the building is the smaller floor plates, which would require users to take up more floors if they wanted more space. He said if Dowell can bring it up to Class A quality, it will be quickly leased.

Building permit application filed yesterday for this project.

Spoke to Rick Dowell and they will start gutting the building as soon as it's issued, which shouldn't take long.

The hold up has been the work on the adjacent Couch/Kerr Park, which is now months behind schedule.

Should take 2-3 months to complete interior demolition then they will start to finish office space for tenants.


Finally, this building should start coming back to life.

I wonder if he'll reface it with cinder block. Or maybe refit it with the the faux Doric column treatment.

The only change to the exterior will be some minor modifications to the top couple of floors.

Will be really nice to see this place finally come back to life. Been a dead hole for far too long.

Even though the parking garage is controversial, it is attached via the Underground system and that combined with reasonable rates means this building should fill up pretty quickly.

Walking by the Dowell properties in the "Midtown Plaza" area I finally put my finger on why they feel so cold... The windows are all so dark, the buildings look empty when in fact they are all quite full. Creates the feeling of a completely dead area.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dowell092415a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/dowell092415b.jpg

That's a good point, Pete. I've noticed, but hadn't *realized* until you pointed it out.

Compare that to The Drake at sunset.

Dark-tinted windows are the devil when it comes to sidewalk interaction. They're well-intentioned (energy savings, etc), but misguided. ESPECIALLY north- and even south-facing façades, which get little or no direct sunlight. Perhaps the best example of this that I can think of is Painted Door Gallery, which is RETAIL with windows that you can't see into until after dark, and even then not well. The windows are north-facing, under an overhead canopy, and are shaded 24/7/365. I'm certain that those windows have cost them many, many tens of thousands in sales over the life if the store.

But these Dowell buildings bother me even more, because of what was ripped out to put those in. The old Fred Jones Lincoln-Mercury building was a wonderful mid-century place with beautiful retail windows, and the old Bob Moore Cadillac had beautiful casements that were tossed in favor of these blind eyes. If you want to see how powerful casement restoration can be for a building like this, check out the Buick Building at 10th and Broadway, or Tapstone's new HQ, or the work being done at 21c.

The windows in these Dowell projects are an abomination, and should never have been allowed by the UDC.

Yeah, until I actually walked around there I had no idea how much those windows completely suck the life out of the area.

You would swear those buildings were all empty and even maybe abandoned when in fact they are all quite full.

Yeah, until I actually walked around there I had no idea how much those windows completely suck the life out of the area.

You would swear those buildings were all empty and even maybe abandoned when in fact they are all quite full.

And BTW, those photos were taken in the middle of the business day with those buildings completely full of people and all the lights on.

The top photo you posted (old FJ L-M) shows the south-facing windows on 4th. The only time direct sunlight might creep into those is in the dead of winter, when sunlight and warmth would actually be beneficial. Sometimes our reliance on new technologies has made us lose our collective ability to simply build/remodel things intelligently.

I've preached about windows quite a bit on this site before, and the responses generally show how many people don't "get it." They get far more concerned with brick, EFIS, etc., and generally accept that old windows = bad and "modern" windows = good, though it is nowhere near that simple.

In the case of these buildings, the windows make up roughly 50% (or more) of the total façade area. As far as design elements go, they are INCREDIBLY important, perhaps even the MOST important in some cases.