I'm sure this thread will end up controversial, but it's no surprise they have neglected their property for years. Now with Midtown truly in a renaissance and all the other buildings around the Walker roundabout in good shape, should the City of OKC start enforcing property code's for Browns Bakery or should they get a free pass because they are a staple in the fabric of the community. I snapped just a few pics of the neglect this weekend. Broken windows, rotting wood, graffitti, need for new paint, etc.

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/snewlon/Video2700000-01.jpg

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/snewlon/Video2600000-01.jpg

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/snewlon/Video2500000-01.jpg

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/snewlon/Video2400009-28.jpg

http://i980.photobucket.com/albums/ae288/snewlon/Video2400000-02.jpg

I think metro just hates local OKC businesses. Bruno's, Brown's, and so on.. maybe he just hates the ones that begin with "Br" and not all of them?

Of course city code should be enforced though, always.

So do you support the neglect Spartan? I thought your motto was to challenge city leaders from the status quo? What happened, getting weak on us before the summer is over?

It has been a long summer, and yes, I am feeling weakened over the events of this summer. I think it would be great if Brown's started to fix up their building, but I don't know what their balance sheet looks like. I do know that a lot of offices downtown do everything they can to support them though...before 8 you can sure see the secretaries line up getting goodies.

Maybe the owners of Brown's Bakery are preparing for an extensive makeover of the entire property and have chosen to put off addressing these details in the meantime...

Steve are you hinting at something or just dreaming? I'm a dreamer, but have talked to the owners of Browns bakery when I patronize their establishment, and they act like the though hasn't even crossed their mind. Acted as if nothing is wrong with the building. It's become quite the eyesore on prime land.

It is an eyesore, I can agree with that...

(I am gunning for Truong though)

Honestly, Brown's Bakery looks less neglected than the majority of "older" businesses in midtown and far less neglected than the majority of businesses downtown...

I go there 2-3 times a week on my way to work in the mornings, so I'm not judging based solely on your pictures..

I know of a building at 215 NW 10th St. which has a large bit of graffiti on the side and you praised it metro.... On this forum..

I'm curious to know why you think they aren't getting notices from the city though?

Honestly, Brown's Bakery looks less neglected than the majority of "older" businesses in midtown and far less neglected than the majority of businesses downtown...

False.

False.

Really? so those buildings up and down harvey, hudson and walker that look like they belong in downtown sarajevo are just a mirage?

How about almost EVERY bricktown building from the 2nd floor up?

oh, and Kerr McGee buildings...

Sarajevo is a very nice city. And in case you weren't aware...most of those Bricktown buildings above the street level ARE occupied by lawyers offices, huge lofts (like Doc Blues' for example), or super high-end office space.

Sarajevo is a very nice city. And in case you weren't aware...

Yeah, I wasn't... haven't been there in 15 years...


most of those Bricktown buildings above the street level ARE occupied by lawyers offices, huge lofts (like Doc Blues' for example), or super high-end office space.

And that makes it ok for them to look like complete crap from the outside?

Well, let's just agree that Brown's has some improving to do. Some building owners are striving for a gritty, urban look..I guess that look is lost on some people who mistaken it for complete crap and disrepair.

Sarajevo's downtown is very beautiful and nice--just stay away from Novo Sarajevo and most of the city is that way.

Off topic...Have you been to Bosnia, Spartan?

Maybe the owners of Brown's Bakery are preparing for an extensive makeover of the entire property and have chosen to put off addressing these details in the meantime...

Sooo, back to this statement...

Off topic...Have you been to Bosnia, Spartan?

I did a tour of Central and Eastern Europe after I graduated HS--didn't get as far south as Sarajevo, but I did take a class last year on large-scale redevelopment (ie cities after a war) and got to study the city as one of many case examples. Right now my life's dream is to do another graduate program abroad after I finish my m.arch, somewhere in Scandinavia where I would finally be considered very tan.

I just have a minor pet peeve where people make a reference to a place that is widely accepted as a dump when in fact, it really isn't. It has something to do with being an Okie and constantly hearing Oklahoma referred to in juxtaposition to some urban place. I think we all know what the Sarajevo or Beirut references mean, but I think it would be better to just use Baghdad or Mogadishu or some place that is actually in shambles..out of respect for cities that have actually strived and put in effort to rebuilding themselves.

Steve are you hinting at something or just dreaming?

Steve is the ULTIMATE hinter. The cross pollination of blogs has become mildly amusing.

Sarajevo's downtown is very beautiful and nice--just stay away from Novo Sarajevo and most of the city is that way.


have you been to Bosnia, Spartan?


didn't get as far south as Sarajevo

lol

Steve is the ULTIMATE hinter. The cross pollination of blogs has become mildly amusing.

And you sir are certainly part of the entertainment!

Steve is the ULTIMATE hinter. The cross pollination of blogs has become mildly amusing.

It's a close community, you could say. :)

Hmmm...looking at the pics it looks like a vacant building. There is a business operating out of it? Where is the Browns Bakery sign and other indicators that something is actually going on inside?

Hmmm...looking at the pics it looks like a vacant building. There is a business operating out of it? Where is the Browns Bakery sign and other indicators that something is actually going on inside?

The smell of delicious goodness emanating out from it.

Ahhh, didn't know they were scratch-n-sniff pics....LOL

I don't think its a matter of the city giving Brown's a 'Free Pass' ~ I think its more of the reality that city inspectors place priority on individual complaint calls. I've spoke to a couple of city inspectors in the past regarding the 'broken windows' theory on community policing etc. and wondered why one address gets the attention of the city and another does not. Each time they repeat the same thing "we respond to complaints." Occasionally the city will decide to concentrate on an entire area, otherwise it appears they are simply dispatched to investigate calls from citizens.

We have a humorous situation in our neighborhood. There is this (in my opinion very worthless) felon a block over that uses a house that he doesn't live in as his mechanic's garage to work on cars all day long. One of his neighbors could not get the city to do anything about fact he was using this non commercial property for commercial use so they began reporting him for parking four cars in his driveway and thus the last two would block the sidewalk. The city ticketed him twice and forced him to move the other two cars out of the neighborhood. One day he was yelling at the inspector because the neighbors on either side of him block their sidewalks too. The inspector just shrugged his shoulders and said "nobody has called complaining about them, just about you."

So, I guess if the condition of Brown's really bothers you enough, I'd call the city and make a complaint. You can ask them to follow up with you and they will mail you a summary of what (if anything) they did upon inspecting the property. You can also call and give them an address and they will give you a call history on that address.

Don't Edmond my Midtown.

I've been going there for years, twice a week, to get donated donuts for my school's newspaper program. I've never really paid much attention to the building, honestly. The interior certainly has...atmosphere...but as long as no plaster gets on the goods, and the homeless guy outside doesn't harass me too much, I don't really care.

Really, is everything supposed to be pristine? You're talking about a very old building.

I'm actually with Metro on this one. I go to the Midtown Y 2-3x a week, 1492 at least 2x a month and Midtown Deli 1x a month and the antique store across the street from Brown's 2-3x a month. And, yes, Brown's is certainly the most neglected property on the Plaza circle. I don't know if it bothers me enough I'd ever complain, but they are definitely not being the best neighbor they could be.

Another building I hate to see in disrepair is the tall building directly East of 1492. The building itself is somewhat kept up (broken windows usually get fixed within a few months) but the parking garage is a mess.

I don't think its a matter of the city giving Brown's a 'Free Pass' ~ I think its more of the reality that city inspectors place priority on individual complaint calls. I've spoke to a couple of city inspectors in the past regarding the 'broken windows' theory on community policing etc. and wondered why one address gets the attention of the city and another does not. Each time they repeat the same thing "we respond to complaints." Occasionally the city will decide to concentrate on an entire area, otherwise it appears they are simply dispatched to investigate calls from citizens.

We have a humorous situation in our neighborhood. There is this (in my opinion very worthless) felon a block over that uses a house that he doesn't live in as his mechanic's garage to work on cars all day long. One of his neighbors could not get the city to do anything about fact he was using this non commercial property for commercial use so they began reporting him for parking four cars in his driveway and thus the last two would block the sidewalk. The city ticketed him twice and forced him to move the other two cars out of the neighborhood. One day he was yelling at the inspector because the neighbors on either side of him block their sidewalks too. The inspector just shrugged his shoulders and said "nobody has called complaining about them, just about you."

So, I guess if the condition of Brown's really bothers you enough, I'd call the city and make a complaint. You can ask them to follow up with you and they will mail you a summary of what (if anything) they did upon inspecting the property. You can also call and give them an address and they will give you a call history on that address.

I have and do it frequently to neglected properties. There is a house on NW 9th and Francis with holes in the roof and side of the house, no reason why it shouldn't be condemned. Reported it a dozen or more times to the City Action Center over the last 4 years and each time I get a letter back of "no violation" or states they are working with the property owner, etc. Nothing ever gets done. The City Action center and inspection dept. is a joke. At one time a few years ago, it was very good though. I've done the same for Brown's, nothing get's done.

Maybe someone has an answer to this. Why doesn't the city have more code enforcement officers? It would seem this could be an area for the city to generate more income. Does code enforcement actually generate income with fees and fines, or do they operate at a loss?

And I will agree that Brown's should do a better job at keeping up their building, although I don't think it is to the point that I would call the
City to complain, yet.

And you sir are certainly part of the entertainment!

Hmmm. I guess I "have" been. lol

It's a close community, you could say. :)

Its the biggest small community I have ever been a part of. That's for sure.

Regarding Brown's.... I don't understand the lack of maintenance and then again I do. As a small business owner, aesthetics sometime take a backseat to other bills. And then sometimes, people are oblivious to what other people see. Ms. Brown has been an influential part of why Midtown has gained traction however. That should not be overlooked.

To be honest, other than the broken windows and the hanging electrical cabling, the place looks like the run of the mill mom and pop joint. "atmosphere" is a good description. Sometimes the places that look like you need a shot just to walk in the joint are the places with the best food....hello Meers Burgers....

I think the place could definitely use some sprucing up, but I could find any number of places that are far worse to pick on.

I would like for Browns to be open 24 hours 7 days a week. There's nothing like fresh doughnuts at 3:00am, after party type of snacks.

Has anyone seen the Food Network special on best doughnut shoppes?

There's a place in Portland called Voodoo Doughnuts, 24 hours. It's like a party place with the craziest doughnuts ever imagined.

http://www.voodoodoughnut.com/about.php

I know I started the thread, and as I initially mentioned it'd be controversial because it is Browns, but heck, I'd just settle to paint over the gang graffiti and replace the broken windows. I understand the urban grit and some of that is it's charm, although a clean bakery would be nice.... The place has sooooo much potential, especially being on that prime piece of land. There are more broken out windows than I posted pictures of. Even in the main building. It appears they don't do anything besides store old useless junk in the "south wing", be nice if they'd fix it up and rent it out to more retailers.

My wife and I purchased our wedding cakes from Brown's 20 years ago and the building was an eyesore back then. Virtually no maintenance, faded paint and trash everywhere but at the time it was one of the supposedly better businesses from which to purchase pastries and cakes. One of the big differences then was the whole area was basically a depressing eyesore. While the area has changed; Brown's hasn't. Seems as though there would be some type of association of local business owners and St. Anthony's to encourage a standard of aesthetics, cleanliness, signage, etc. among all the businesses. Brown's either "doesn't get it, or doesn't care" much like the fellow who owns the restaurant supply business on 23rd.

... but heck, I'd just settle to paint over the gang graffiti and replace the broken windows. I understand the urban grit and some of that is it's charm ...

Metro - I'm reminded of the thread you recently started on the "Famous Graffiti Artist." If he tags Brown's Bakery with his "art," wouldn't that give it the "charm" you're after? http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=22852 I'm not needling you as much as others who find one person's graffiti to be art, and another person's graffiti to be blight.

My wife and I purchased our wedding cakes from Brown's 20 years ago and the building was an eyesore back then. Virtually no maintenance, faded paint and trash everywhere but at the time it was one of the supposedly better businesses from which to purchase pastries and cakes. One of the big differences then was the whole area was basically a depressing eyesore. While the area has changed; Brown's hasn't. Seems as though there would be some type of association of local business owners and St. Anthony's to encourage a standard of aesthetics, cleanliness, signage, etc. among all the businesses. Brown's either "doesn't get it, or doesn't care" much like the fellow who owns the restaurant supply business on 23rd.

Not every place can or should be Edmond. Midtown is not some beautiful Mecca of well-landscaped buildings. Heck, at that intersection, Brown's isn't even the biggest eyesore.

The whole area is full of old buildings sitting empty and rotting and empty lots. Give those things your attention before attacking a business which stayed in Midtown even when it probably didn't make great business sense to remain there.

They could wash the windows and move the curtain cornice up to the top of the windows instead of trying to pretend they're cafe curtains. They coulod put out flower pots. They could do something.

Not an attack Midtowner. Simply saying business / property owners have a choice to either keep their structures clean and repaired...or not. Clean, neat and tidy I believe is far preferable to the alternative. Again, the only conclusion to draw is they either don't get it or don't care. BTW, which one was I "attacking" Brown's or the restaurant supply?

Steve has hinted at some future news that could affect Browns. I'm hoping it is that they will be open 24/7.

Metro - I'm reminded of the thread you recently started on the "Famous Graffiti Artist." If he tags Brown's Bakery with his "art," wouldn't that give it the "charm" you're after? http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=22852 I'm not needling you as much as others who find one person's graffiti to be art, and another person's graffiti to be blight.

I wasn't "praising" the graffitti, either, merely copied and pasted an article. I don't like it, but at least it's not gang graffitti, which IMO is worse and I assume you're competent enough to know that wasn't the point of this thread, but rather the overall continued lack of maintenance that is Brown's Bakery.


Not every place can or should be Edmond. Midtown is not some beautiful Mecca of well-landscaped buildings. Heck, at that intersection, Brown's isn't even the biggest eyesore.

The whole area is full of old buildings sitting empty and rotting and empty lots. Give those things your attention before attacking a business which stayed in Midtown even when it probably didn't make great business sense to remain there.

Mid, usually we agree, but what building is in worse condition at that intersection, seriously?

Mid, usually we agree, but what building is in worse condition at that intersection, seriously?

The property across the street to the south isn't in any better shape.

Metro - Don't take it as a shot, it wasn't intended to be. I own several commercial properties, one of which is tagged regularly and painted over promptly.

I wouldn't say that they either don't "get it' or they "don't care." It's tough economically right now. They've had to raise their prices significantly to keep up with raising food prices. We used to get donated donuts for our newspaper program (3 or 4 years) but they cut us off early this last spring, without much explanation. I think maybe times are just tough and it's either keep the business going or pay for costly repairs. It's not always possible to do both. It's a big building, but a small business.

bandnerd, but it seems as if it's not a recent problem, the neglect has been ongoing reportedly up to the last 2 decades. There are two types of business owners, ones that reinvest back in the business, and ones that don't. I've gone to Browns for years, the broken windows, graffitti, water stains, have been there as long as I can remember. Anyhow I achieved my point of creating this thread for discussion on the topic and am glad we are getting a healthy discussion going on.

Mid, I disagree about the "building to the south", it's more upkept than Browns, and I believe is full of tenants. No broken windows that I can see, no graffitti, no water stains or flaking paint.

I made a point to pay particular attention to the Brown location and surrounding structures yesterday when the wife and I went to the Midtown Y. I never paid much attention to it, but yes, the South end particularly of Brown's is a very sad and dilapidated sight. The only building I saw to the South of their property was the one with the antique store. I don't really see a comparison at all. That property appears to be kept up.

I wouldn't say that they either don't "get it' or they "don't care." It's tough economically right now. They've had to raise their prices significantly to keep up with raising food prices. We used to get donated donuts for our newspaper program (3 or 4 years) but they cut us off early this last spring, without much explanation. I think maybe times are just tough and it's either keep the business going or pay for costly repairs. It's not always possible to do both. It's a big building, but a small business.

No, it's really not that small of a business. Brown's is pretty well-known, and does very good business. Prairie Thunder has an immaculate space and doesn't do nearly the business that Brown's does across the street.

I've stayed away from this because the topic really doesn't excite me all that much ... any more than Browns Bakery itself does. Besides that, anything I'd have to say would be negative, and I'm not generally inclined to knock a neighborhood member of mine, like Browns is (living north of the store on NW 19th). At best, I think that Browns bakery products are average, if that. My wife has purchased some cakes for birthday, etc., parties there that I will just not eat ... and I like cake. White cake always seems to work for Browns, but not the brown varieties. But that's not the point of this thread.

Browns has been pretty crummy looking as a building for as long as I can remember, and I've lived north of that location since 1983 in two different residences, both on NW 19th, as I said. That's 27 years. I've yet to see the bakery invest a nickle in the building's exterior or interior appearance. Their reputation (why it is deserved as a bakery, I don't know) apparently gives them the income they require and the company feels no need to invest in its structure and interior facilities. And I'm not talking about graffiti cleanup -- I'm just talking generally. It's kind of like a residence that needs a lot of work ... particularly noticeable after a resurgence in a neighborhood community -- but one that refuses to paint, mow its lawn until required, etc. It always looks run down and scruffy even if it is a step ahead of code enforcement. I don't see Brown's as a good neighbor in those respects.

It would be thrilling to see Browns have a change of perspective. And whether there is any basis in Steve's tease or not, as I said, Brown's non-maintenance is not anything new, not even close to new. So, the possibility that Browns might be saving its money for a larger investment down the line rings hollow to me ... if that's the case, they've been saving for at least 27 years that I'm aware of and quite likely more than that before I moved into the general neighborhood.

I've said my negative piece and now I'm done.

Seems to me Brown's Bakery was somewhere else when I was young or have I totally misplaced the memory?

That building they're in now was some kind of grocery store I think and hasn't changed much as long as I can remember. Or maybe that's an erroneous memory, too.

I think you are right about the grocery, flinty, but I don't remember which one. Was it a Humpty Dumpty?

I can remember when the whole area between 10th and 13th on Walker looked pretty dumpy. The Plaza Court was mostly empty for years and the buildings Stella, 1492, and Midtown Deli sit in were vacant. Do the owners of Plaza Court pay Brown's Bakery any money to allow their customers to park in Brown's parking lot at night? Maybe Brown's should charge a parking fee so they can spruce their building up? The Federal Building at 6th and Hudson may be new, but it is is more ugly and depressing looking to me than the Brown's Bakery building. At least Brown's is contributing to the Oklahoma City economy while midtown and the downtown area is full of buildings that have been vacant for years.

Bigray in Ok

I've stayed away from this because the topic really doesn't excite me all that much ... any more than Browns Bakery itself does. Besides that, anything I'd have to say would be negative, and I'm not generally inclined to knock a neighborhood member of mine, like Browns is (living north of the store on NW 19th). At best, I think that Browns bakery products are average, if that. My wife has purchased some cakes for birthday, etc., parties there that I will just not eat ... and I like cake. White cake always seems to work for Browns, but not the brown varieties. But that's not the point of this thread.

Browns has been pretty crummy looking as a building for as long as I can remember, and I've lived north of that location since 1983 in two different residences, both on NW 19th, as I said. That's 27 years. I've yet to see the bakery invest a nickle in the building's exterior or interior appearance. Their reputation (why it is deserved as a bakery, I don't know) apparently gives them the income they require and the company feels no need to invest in its structure and interior facilities. And I'm not talking about graffiti cleanup -- I'm just talking generally. It's kind of like a residence that needs a lot of work ... particularly noticeable after a resurgence in a neighborhood community -- but one that refuses to paint, mow its lawn until required, etc. It always looks run down and scruffy even if it is a step ahead of code enforcement. I don't see Brown's as a good neighbor in those respects.

It would be thrilling to see Browns have a change of perspective. And whether there is any basis in Steve's tease or not, as I said, Brown's non-maintenance is not anything new, not even close to new. So, the possibility that Browns might be saving its money for a larger investment down the line rings hollow to me ... if that's the case, they've been saving for at least 27 years that I'm aware of and quite likely more than that before I moved into the general neighborhood.

I've said my negative piece and now I'm done.

Doug, thanks for chiming in. You summed up my entire thoughts on Brown's. I agree, they have been shabby as far as I remember, but since I have lived in the area for years, and drive by it multiple times a day, I'm really starting to get tired of looking at it's disrepair as it stands out like an eyesore now that the area has really revived.

Everyone else seems to be getting a free-pass!

I've been a patron of Brown's Bakery for a number of years.

They aren't any different from many of your BBQ/Food establishments all over town.

Don't you just love going into those sugar-shacks when the food is great (?); then all of a sudden the owner fixes the place up and it's appear s(mentally) as though the flavor of the food rolled down hill.

Brown's is one of those small businesses that can't afford to put a lot of capital into improvements.

Would anyone like to donate a 5 gallon bucket of Habitat's best paint?

There are a lot more businesses in this city and places in the Saint's area that can't hold a candle to Brown's Bakery.

Myself, I've been trying to lay off the bread items (Brown's does have whole wheat and good corn bread) in my diet so I guess a few chips of paint won't hurt! As for those chips of paint, remain visual; I won't open my mouth until I've cleared their parking lot.

Brown's is one of those small businesses that can't afford to put a lot of capital into improvements.

Since when is general maintenance considered "improvements?" if you're going to own property it comes with a basic expectation you will maintain it to at least a minimum standard for your geographic area.

I don't think the request was for expensive new awnings or landscaping. Paint, glass and some spit and polish.

What BBates said, and when did replacing broken windows become "improvements"? Sadly for Browns, general maintenance is an improvement. Don't tell me they can't afford $30 bucks to go over to Habitat and get their "finest paint" and a couple of paint brushes. I believe that is called, laziness, not lack of funds.

That reminds me..... My wife made me a list of capital improvements I need to do over the weekend; mow, edge, clean the gutters, clean the windows, and paint the trim where we had the gutters replaced.

In their defense: They painted within the last year or so and the sign was replaced about 3 months ago.

I was glad to see the new sign placed on the building. I feel like they need a donation jar on the counter for their maintenance issues.

Also I am thinking about donating a newer slightly used TV for them to use in their dining area, instead of that antique looking one they have now.

The employees they have are very very nice every time I am in there.

Cuatro, I will give them credit for a new sign, but where did they paint?. It sure doesn't show.

No, they should not get a "pass", free or otherwise.