http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001nphfS6MPjGnRM32G_29p9utYFj5TZJZM25vuh0 oJP2CqNPwQJvoZFkD1Hj2elWYkIcV7z36UaWVFWtJK7QerikcP RvHvbZwCCiTI4UMyW19GB2v_2apBKw%3D%3D

http://campaign.constantcontact.com/render?v=001nphfS6MPjGnRM32G_29p9utYFj5TZJZM25vuh0 oJP2CqNPwQJvoZFkD1Hj2elWYkIcV7z36UaWVFWtJK7QerikcP RvHvbZwCCiTI4UMyW19GB2v_2apBKw%3D%3D

Yeah. I just linked that in my post. The site doesn't give much detail about what they're doing besides generic descriptions like "making more pedestrian friendly" and "beautifying." They tore up the while street. What are they going to do that merits that? You can beautify a street without tearing it up...

And are they just going to have to retear up the roads in 5 years (or whenever) when they start working on the transit?

If they put in rail they will only need to tear up the section of steet where the rail itself is going.

Yeah. I just linked that in my post. The site doesn't give much detail about what they're doing besides generic descriptions like "making more pedestrian friendly" and "beautifying." They tore up the while street. What are they going to do that merits that? You can beautify a street without tearing it up...

You are right to a point, much depends on what they are doing with it. Example, if they are going to put in separated bike lanes, or change the curb lines, or standardize the street specifications with the entire area (having to do with the longterm maintenance) all could require the replacement of the entire street. I suspect that in many cases it is a combination of these that require the removal of the entire street. In addition to this if they are having to relocate utilities from under a rail bed that in conjuntion with everything else, plus speed and ease in completion of all at once work rather than half and half while traffic is still moving through the site.

Sorry that kind of rambled it muct be Friday at the end of a long week! Long story short there are a great many factors that may contribute to the reason the entire street was removed.

So, Project 180 (http://www.okc.gov/project180/) has already started with improvements on the Myriad Gardens and Crystal Bridge, but it is now starting on streets. The first street, which makes sense, is Reno between EK Gaylord and Robinson. Here are some pics: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs053/1103359496015/archive/1103610886760.html. This sounds like a really great project, but I'm not sure exactly what they are going to do and how it will fit with the MAPs 3 transit project. Are there going to be bike lanes? I would love to see downtown more pedestrian friendly, but what does that mean? And are they just going to have to retear up the roads in 5 years (or whenever) when they start working on the transit? Even more specifically, what changes are they going to make to Reno between the Ford and Cox Centers? Sorry with all the questions, but I'm just wondering what Project 180 actually entails aside from their vague descriptions...

There will be bike lanes, I believe, or if not it was an idea that was given heavy consideration. If they took em out then there is truly no hope left for OKC, so I hope not.

There really isn't a lot out there, but what is available online is all here:
http://www.okc.gov/project180/

Steve also put a lot of the renderings on his blog, and he also did some live blogging coverage of some of the 180 closed-door meetings.

From Spartan's link


Plans call for the addition of landscaping, public art, marked bike lanes, decorative street lighting, and additional on-street parking spaces

More info is available at that link thru the menu on the left. PDF presentation and such. May be mistaken but think Project 180 is planned on being a complete overhaul of the CBD streets etc, with common design elements (lighting, benches, bike racks, trash cans, design work in the sidewalks/intersections, etc). Think bike lanes are going to be incorporated all over?

If bike lanes will be included there should be bike/segway rental stations located throughout downtown for visitors and tours,rent from one station and return at any rental station!You could rent a bike in Lower Bricktown and ride up into midtown or to The Myriad gardens or Ford center/Cox cc!I'm sure things like this have already been discussed!

So, Project 180 (http://www.okc.gov/project180/) has already started with improvements on the Myriad Gardens and Crystal Bridge, but it is now starting on streets. The first street, which makes sense, is Reno between EK Gaylord and Robinson. Here are some pics: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs053/1103359496015/archive/1103610886760.html. This sounds like a really great project, but I'm not sure exactly what they are going to do and how it will fit with the MAPs 3 transit project. Are there going to be bike lanes? I would love to see downtown more pedestrian friendly, but what does that mean? And are they just going to have to retear up the roads in 5 years (or whenever) when they start working on the transit? Even more specifically, what changes are they going to make to Reno between the Ford and Cox Centers? Sorry with all the questions, but I'm just wondering what Project 180 actually entails aside from their vague descriptions...

This is something the City is aware of but is unanswerable at this point because we don't know where the Streetcars are going to be routed and the timing of the Streetcars is several years away (if for no other reason, than MAPS 3 is a primarily pay-as-you-go method of financing, the tax has just started to be collected, the order of the projects hasn't been determined etc etc etc.)

While Project 180 & Streetcars ideally would be done at the same time (to minimize disruption to traffic, and the potential cost savings of only doing it once), it just may not be possible to do so. I would prefer that they delay the Project 180 until they can co-ordinate with Streetcars but apparently as part of the financing deal with Devon, Project 180 has to be complete by a certain date (particularly the areas surrounding Devon Tower). IIRC, that date is the same as Devon's opening.

Based on how many times I've walked that street before or after a basketball game, I hope they kinda level it out. It slopes down on the Eastern end toward EK Gaylord/Shields. As far as future rail transit, I'd think that they could just cut the cement like they do with these sections on the interstates. Cut a long track out and lay rails for the street cars. Then again, I don't know but it seems to me that's how they did it in Houston (I viewed some pics a long while back and that's what I remember).

This is something the City is aware of but is unanswerable at this point because we don't know where the Streetcars are going to be routed and the timing of the Streetcars is several years away (if for no other reason, than MAPS 3 is a primarily pay-as-you-go method of financing, the tax has just started to be collected, the order of the projects hasn't been determined etc etc etc.)

While Project 180 & Streetcars ideally would be done at the same time (to minimize disruption to traffic, and the potential cost savings of only doing it once), it just may not be possible to do so. I would prefer that they delay the Project 180 until they can co-ordinate with Streetcars but apparently as part of the financing deal with Devon, Project 180 has to be complete by a certain date (particularly the areas surrounding Devon Tower). IIRC, that date is the same as Devon's opening.

I think they know exactly where they're going to put the streetcar rails.. that's just my jadedness though.

Spartan, do you mean that the Lets Talk Transit public input meetings are just a sham? Do you think that the Oversight Committee and announced subcommittee for the Convention Center site selection is just for show too?

Downtown events to compound traffic problems

By Brian Brus
Oklahoma City reporter - Contact 405-278-2837
Posted: 10:44 PM Wednesday, August 18, 2010

OKLAHOMA CITY – About 6,000 more people than usual will add to traffic congestion downtown Aug. 26 during the state School Boards Association convention, making current detours even more of a bother, event coordinators confirmed.

Friday night, hundreds of fans for country music performers Brooks & Dunn and the RedHawks baseball team will provide their own complications in the district.

Oklahoma City Convention and Visitors Bureau officials are prepared to help people navigate closed lanes and frequent changes for at least three years as the city’s Project 180 remodels the downtown landscape.

And Gary Desjardins, who oversees the arena and exhibit halls at the Cox Center, said traffic patterns are often on his mind.

“There’s a lot to think about, especially with Reno (Avenue) being completely closed from Robinson to Gaylord,” Desjardins said of the road that passes in front of the convention center. “We had a pretty intense meeting on Monday morning to review the status of work, the ingress and egress, as well as the overall automobile and pedestrian traffic patterns so we can communicate to guests what to expect.”

When work on Reno was being discussed with city engineers, Desjardins said he suggested closing down the road completely to speed up the process instead of a partial shutdown that would affect more events.

“There’s no degree of relativity, because you’re either inconvenienced or you’re not,” he said.

The $140 million Project 180 streetscaping initiative started earlier this month with Reno. The project will extensively change 180 acres of streets, sidewalks, lamps, benches and signage throughout downtown for the next three years. Project 180 is funded by a tax increment finance district around the new Devon Tower, now under construction immediately north of the Myriad Botanical Gardens park.

Andrea French, the city’s Project 180 public liaison, said that shortly after she was hired to the position she realized she would need to be aware of much more than just the initiative: Streets have been closed for construction on the Devon Tower itself and for renovations on the park; standard utilities work often requires detours; and lines for a downtown streetcar as part of the $777 million MAPS 3 tax issue are expected soon.

“We have almost daily coordination meetings,” French said. “There’s a lot of activity around the Ford and Cox centers right now with all their events. So we’re in constant contact with them about their needs. … There’s a whole special coordination effort with just those centers.

“We even have special traffic patterns we put into place, switching lanes and traffic light timing so we can ensure people leave the area quickly after a concert or sports event. And we’re coordinating with police probably like we never have before,” she said.

The words “working with” were often uttered by French, Desjardins and visitors bureau spokeswoman Laura Kriegel. When asked for elaboration, Kriegel said, “We see ourselves as a conduit to bring groups together to educate our stakeholders such as hotels and attractions about how they’ll be affected.”

In other words, city officials share information with businesses and organization leaders, who, in turn, tell their employees and tourists about expected traffic problems.

Directly warning each person planning to visit the city is impossible, Desjardins said, so communication with event planners is crucial.

And Kriegel said, “We haven’t changed our overall marketing strategy. But what we have been doing is meeting with the folks from Project 180, and our convention, sales and services team is working closely with meeting planners and people who are considering coming here to keep them informed about transportation challenges so they know what to expect.”
Kriegel said the bureau will probably adjust its efforts as representatives receive feedback from clients.

It is not a lake. It is a huge pond.

Did they seriously drain it? If they did... KABOOM! There goes all the living beneficial bacteria! We will probably be dealing with fish deaths once they refill the pond and dump the fish back in there. The fish will have to deal and suffer with the beginning cycle and the dramatic difference in water conditions.

Btw, the good bacteria colonization is where they convert Ammonia to Nitrite to Nitrate. Look up on Aquarium Nitrogen Cycle. And all those plant life in there being lost.... Sad! And the water... They're gonna be pumping in new water...dramatically different from the aged water, which have so many differences, including pH and water hardness.

The city should just leave the pond alone, cover them up section by section as they work around it.

Thunder, you do realize leading experts from around the country are working on this, it's not John Doe working in the City's Sanitation Dept. just covering it up and then filling the pond up with a water-hose and throwing the fish back in when it's reopened. It will be fine.

Thanks, Metro.

Thunder, Metro is right. When it comes to the lake there and the fish, fish biologists with both the City's own Municipal Fish Hatchery as well as the State Department of Wildlife Conservation handled the transport of the fish and will handle them again when they are relocated back into the Gardens' lake. I can assure you these gentlemen have spent their entire careers dedicated to fish and marine biology. They are well aware of what will need to happen in terms of viable bacteria levels in the lake waters.

There was simply no way around this part of the construction project. The draining had to be done.

I can sleep peacefully now.

I can sleep peacefully now.

As long as you aren't sleeping with the fishes. I wonder what mafia fish say? Do they tie other fish to balloons to 'dispose' of the bodies?

I do sleep with all my fish. I got 5 tanks with 2 more on the way.

... wonder what mafia fish say? Do they tie other fish to balloons to 'dispose' of the bodies?

That might well be the funniest line I recall you posting. Thanks for the laugh

A friend of mine did this a long time ago:

http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/8071/pulpe.jpg

Current image of Reno by Ford Center. Goal is to have it done before NBA season starts.

http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs053/1103359496015/img/52.jpg?a=1103629288502

Great photo thanks Metro! A picture it truly worth a thousand words! I am glad that they are moving on this one quickly, the less disruption to the area around the arena the better for the city shots on all those televised games we are going to be having this season! Plus hopefully it will incorporate many of the items that we can expect to see for the remainder of the project. Kind of a sneek peak!! I just hope what they do is worth it, and they actually incorporate bike lanes, planters, trees, benches and well placed and designed lighting. This is a huge deal and one that we want to have a real impact, the kind that visitors will take note of, not just the locals who will be happy with simply improved roads!

Are they simply expanding the street? Looks like the same size to me...

No Thunder it's part of the Project 180 streetscapes, hence the title of this thread.

http://web11.twitpic.com/img/144566637-2d8116c100ede512a5e74e70912bcd49.4c6ed7b8-scaled.jpg

Not sure why people keep doubting bike lanes, it's already approved folks, there will be lots of bike lanes both dedicated and shared. See the map of bike lanes at the link below. Note that Reno won't have a bike lane but Robinson and EK Gaylord will have dedicated lanes by the Ford Center.

http://www.okc.gov/PROJECT180/BIKEROUTE.PDF

Metro pulled the photo from either the Project180 weekly email or facebook page.

You can sign up to receive weekly Project180 updates here (http://visitor.constantcontact.com/manage/optin/ea?v=001Vjt3cCjZco-uKyPbUjT71Q%3D%3D), or join the Project180 fb page here (http://www.facebook.com/home.php?#!/pages/Project180-Transforming-Oklahoma-City/120793601270605).

correct, in full disclosure they are from the Project 180 blog, thus I didn't take credit for them either.

metro: no matter where it came from, thanks for the map, hadn't seen it before.

Are they putting in automatic water sprinklers?

You want the sidewalks watered? Might make it interesting in the winter...forget the Braums Ice Skating Rink in December (or who ever is sponsoring it now)...just have a connecting series of "ice lanes" all over downtown. This would be supplemental to the naturally occurring ice storms...LOL

I thought there be a median with trees, shrubs, and flowers? Are you telling me that the city screwed up again with this project?

Sorry for the snarky comment... not sure if an irrigation system is part of the plan or not...seems like a valid question, maybe FritterGirl knows?

One thing that bugs me about this 180 thing is Reno between Cox and Ford. This has got to be like the 5th time since they built the Ford Center that they've torn up the road to do crap. I just don't see why such a short stretch of road needs to be re-worked that much. It's closed all the time for events anyway (which is also REALLY ANNOYING), so it's not like it gets a HUGE amount of traffic. I bet Sheridan gets a lot more.

bomber, Project 180 wasn't planned until well after the times you mentioned. If Devon wants to give the city $120+ million dollars and pay it 20 years early to renovate our downtown, who cares about the inconvenience it causes for 2 months to Reno in front of the Ford Center. I question if you and Thunder even understand what Project 180 is and will do for us. Must be a MWC thing.

bomber, Project 180 wasn't planned until well after the times you mentioned. If Devon wants to give the city $120+ million dollars and pay it 20 years early to renovate our downtown, who cares about the inconvenience it causes for 2 months to Reno in front of the Ford Center. I question if you and Thunder even understand what Project 180 is and will do for us. Must be a MWC thing.

I know what Project 180 is. I question why you would even ask that. Must be a -location- thing.

In additional to the actual street work, Project 180 will add modern lighting, street furniture, continuous street trees, wider sidewalks, and more pedestrian-friendly intersections. This is not simply a repaving of the street.

krisb, think Thunder knows all of that, his question was, is the City putting in irrigation (to water the trees, flowers etc) or is it going to be left on its own and we hope there is enough rain (at the right times of course) to keep all of those improvements alive? Or maybe the Parks Dept is poing to go around watering everything by hand every day? Or is the City going to spend whatever share of the millions on it, then let it die?

I hope they put in irrigation. Does the city pay the water bill or not? People pay the city for water use, but I don't know about the water use by the city. If the city don't pay for water use, then they should be putting in sprinklers all over.

The City doesn't pay for water because it is city owned (as opposed to electricity which is supplied thru a 3rd party). Even though the City doesn't have to pay for the water itself, they have to pay for the cost of the irrigation systems, its installation and upkeep. The City has to pay for the treatment and distribution of the water, so even though they "own it", there are costs involved to use their own stuff. They can often come up with money for the purchase/installation (usually borrowed bond debt) but when it comes to maintaining stuff, that often falls to the way side. It has been reported that the massive cost over runs with some of the original MAPS projects was due to the City not performing the routine maintenance. Betts asked about waste and graft elesewhere, that is a good example of it. There is an old saying that for want of a screw, the ship was sunk (or something like that). The deferred maintenance that may have been in the 10s of thousands of dollars, ended up costing millions to ultimately repair. Its like regularly putting off that routine oil change. That leads to poorer gas economy which costs you more. Eventually you end up having to replace the engine (or at least very expensive repairs). Which makes more sense?

Ongoing maintenance needs are rarely factored into a bond or MAPS (readily admitted). The maintenance costs often come out of the General Fund, which is often under stress.

The business improvement district, operated by Downtown Oklahoma City Inc., will continue to maintain medians, etc.

Larry, you're giving Thunder too much credit.

Larry, you're giving Thunder too much credit.

Luv u too. :-)

I just don't see why such a short stretch of road needs to be re-worked that much.

I was responding to this statement.

The business improvement district, operated by Downtown Oklahoma City Inc., will continue to maintain medians, etc.

Steve,

Thanks for the info...interesting visual comes to mind though...how does Downtown OKC go about maintaining it (do they contract with someone to water the plants daily, etc)? 180 acres (or the streets that go thru them) is a lot of ground to cover (so to speak).

Also, what exactly is a "business improvement district" work? Is it like a TIF district (where they use borrowed money that is eventually paid back with the increased property taxes)

I was responding to this statement.

Thanks for the clarification...looked like you were responding to Thunder..my apologies

A drip irrigation system is included in the landscaping plans for Project180. Another important feature included in the Project180 landscaping plans is something called structured soil. Here is a link explaining the importance of this soil in urban environments: http://www.hort.cornell.edu/uhi/outreach/csc/article.html

Yielding for progress
Downtown businesses see payoff in the pain of construction zones
By April Wilkerson

OKLAHOMA CITY – It’s the price of progress: With several downtown streets closed off or limited because of construction, businesses are dealing with access snags and delivery difficulties.

But retailers are mostly tolerant about the issues and optimistic for better sales when construction is complete.

At the Peacock Restaurant near Reno and Walker avenues, owner Jim Pagonis said he’s noticed a decrease in patrons, but his catering business is seeing him through.

“It’s mainly affected my lunch crowd,” he said, “but it hasn’t affected my catering at all.

“It’s kind of like a maze here – some people can figure it out and some can’t,” he said.

Another Reno Avenue business, ABC Office Furniture Center, has kept good access so far because it’s on the south side of the street, and the construction is now on the north side. However, when the construction shifts, the business wants to make sure it remains accessible, said Deena Wall, senior vice president.

“I’ve seen some drop-off in business, but hopefully we can make that up when everything is done,” she said. “Exposure for us on that lot will be good. You have to go through some painstaking times to get something that I think will be beautiful when it’s completed.”

Scott’s Printing and Copying on the corner of Hudson and Sheridan avenues is feeling pain because of the Devon utility work nearby. Brad Balding, manager of Scott’s, said he’s lost his customer parking on the east side, and south-side parking isn’t always available. But his main problem has been with deliveries, he said.

“We have big trucks making deliveries every day, and they have to literally pull out in the middle of the street and unload. It’s a safety hazard,” Balding said.

He said the business also has started making deliveries to customers that it previously didn’t deliver to so those people don’t have to deal with the hassle downtown.

At the Courtyard by Marriott on the corner of E.K. Gaylord and Reno, guests don’t have parking issues because there’s an attached garage. But the staff has been making it a point to tell visitors about the construction and how to navigate it when coming and going.

“The biggest challenge is giving our guests the correct directions to get around downtown, get to the airport and get good access to the hotel,” said Rex Amsler, general manager. “There have been some challenges, but we’ve gotten past it by being proactive and giving people good, solid directions.

“The city manager’s office has been very helpful in giving us information in a timely manner so we can take action and take good care of our guests,” he said.

That interaction with businesses is the role of Andrea French, Oklahoma City’s public affairs liaison for Project 180. Some of the construction is because of Project 180, some because of Devon. French sends out a weekly traffic advisory that covers everything important for travel downtown.

French said she’s also trying to help local businesses by encouraging people to remember them. She’s holding a “happy hour” event at La Luna Mexican Cafe for everyone working on Project 180, something she hopes to do at different businesses periodically. And while the city can’t advertise on behalf of the businesses, it can team with organizations like Downtown OKC Inc. to highlight those that are affected.

“We want to encourage people to visit those businesses and make a special note to be good patrons and visit more frequently than they normally would because of the construction,” French said. “I think the biggest thing is communication with these property owners and businesses – letting them know when it’s coming and how long it’s going to stay, and making sure they know they have someone they can call anytime there’s an issue.”

La Luna Mexican Cafe may have said it best with its recent marquee message: “Ouch.” Taeha Hanshaw, head server at the restaurant, said they may change it soon to provide directions on how to find parking through the alley.

“We get a lot of phone calls during the day asking if we’re open and how to get into the parking lot,” she said.

Steve,

Thanks for the info...interesting visual comes to mind though...how does Downtown OKC go about maintaining it (do they contract with someone to water the plants daily, etc)? 180 acres (or the streets that go thru them) is a lot of ground to cover (so to speak).

Also, what exactly is a "business improvement district" work? Is it like a TIF district (where they use borrowed money that is eventually paid back with the increased property taxes)

Here's a link to information about the Business Improvement Districts. It's kind of like an extra property tax. Since I live in one, I get assessed annually, although the existence of the district is up for review from time to time. I think I paid about $90 last year.

http://www.okc.gov/Planning/b_i_d/index.html

Oklahoma City restaurant operators question whether fine dining will work at the Myriad Gardens (Oklahoman, 10/15/10)

One of two restaurants planned as part of a makeover of the Myriad Gardens is being eliminated due to cost concerns.
...

When the $34 million Myriad Gardens makeover, part of Project 180, was first designed, plans called for a 1,500-square-foot cafe by a children's play area, and for a 6,000-square-foot restaurant next to an outdoor ice skating rink.

The Devon Implementation Committee, which is guiding the project, approved converting the cafe into a pavilion.

full story by Steve, here: http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-restaurant-operators-question-whether-fine-dining-will-work-at-the-myriad-gardens/article/3504585?custom_click=lead_story_title

A few questions immdiately come to mind:

1) Thought this was fully funded and now things are being cut because of "costs"?

2) Thought construction cost etc were down because of the economy etc?

3) Are we going to have a repeat with MAPS 3 projects (also "fully funded") that we had with the original MAPS?

I am now ashamed of Project 180. This is just wrong to terminate the cafe. Do they expect people to actually cookout their meals near the pavilion?! The cafe would've brought in so much money from tourists and regulars.

The downtown streets are a mess right now. I am a vendor that's works downtown and goes to many different buildings during the day. Why do they have to have so many streets torn up at once? Wouldn't it make more sense to combine your efferts on 1 or 2 and completes those quickly and move on to the next? It's almost impossible now to get back on I-40 going West. They have streets torn up from the Ford Center to the Memorial.

bomber, Project 180 wasn't planned until well after the times you mentioned. If Devon wants to give the city $120+ million dollars and pay it 20 years early to renovate our downtown, who cares about the inconvenience it causes for 2 months to Reno in front of the Ford Center. I question if you and Thunder even understand what Project 180 is and will do for us. Must be a MWC thing.

Wow metro, that wasn't the point of the question. But thanks for being so rude about it.:beaten_fi

If you had read the question, you would have seen that the question WAS, why are they tearing it up yet again? How many times have we seen the ENTIRE road pulled up between the arenas in the last few years? I can for sure count at least 3. I'm not talking just putting in a pipe under the road. I'm talking digging up the entire street. Yes, one time they repaved, then added pavers, then did something else. It's one project after another that continues to re-do the same little strip. And with so much traffic using that as a connector to bricktown, it is INCREDIBLY frustrating to not be able to use that road so often. You head up one block and you'll see what kind of a traffic issue it causes because the north side of the Cox Center is 2 lanes...not 4. So now all of the traffic flow is squeezed in while we all sit and wait for someone to be able to turn left into a parking garage as they fight oncoming traffic.

But I don't know, I'm just a person with mwc in my handle. I couldn't possibly live in OKC or anything. I couldn't possible have an interest in someone wasting money raised off taxes. Nah, i'm just some moron.

I'm all in favor of the TIF, but I'm also not going to put Devon on some pedstal because of it. They get plenty out of this as well. The area around their HQ gets to be the snazziest looking part of the city because of this. Why didn't they get the TIF started before their new building plans? So don't try and make them into some amazing gift to humanity either. While Nichols is supportive of the city, he's also getting something big out of this.

The downtown streets are a mess right now. I am a vendor that's works downtown and goes to many different buildings during the day. Why do they have to have so many streets torn up at once? Wouldn't it make more sense to combine your efferts on 1 or 2 and completes those quickly and move on to the next? It's almost impossible now to get back on I-40 going West. They have streets torn up from the Ford Center to the Memorial.

Maybe they named it Project 180 because everytime you start to go somewhere, you need to do a 180 and go back the way you came?

Oklahoma City restaurant operators question whether fine dining will work at the Myriad Gardens (Oklahoman, 10/15/10)


full story by Steve, here: http://www.newsok.com/oklahoma-city-restaurant-operators-question-whether-fine-dining-will-work-at-the-myriad-gardens/article/3504585?custom_click=lead_story_title

A few questions immdiately come to mind:

1) Thought this was fully funded and now things are being cut because of "costs"?

2) Thought construction cost etc were down because of the economy etc?

3) Are we going to have a repeat with MAPS 3 projects (also "fully funded") that we had with the original MAPS?
Considering it's PRIVATELY funded and being paid 20 years in advance, we shouldn't complain for a desperately needed makeover.

I am now ashamed of Project 180. This is just wrong to terminate the cafe. Do they expect people to actually cookout their meals near the pavilion?! The cafe would've brought in so much money from tourists and regulars.

Your trolling is getting old. Start making educated responses.

Like any renovation project, the worst part is when everything is torn up and you can't tell what the end result will be. But in time it comes together and the finished product will knock your socks off.

This is so characteristic of how government approaches a problem: Hire an out-of-town consultant (who has probably never even run or worked in a restaurant) so if the concept fails there is someone to blame. What does Lackmeyer do? He finds a handful of local people who have succeeded and failed here, running everything from white tablecloth restaurants to taco trucks. Their opinion: Don’t go upscale.

Hopefully bigger brains will stop this nonsense, fire the consultant and negotiate a discounted fee, and ask Lackmeyer for his reporter’s notes.

This is so characteristic of how government approaches a problem: Hire an out-of-town consultant (who has probably never even run or worked in a restaurant) so if the concept fails there is someone to blame. What does Lackmeyer do? He finds a handful of local people who have succeeded and failed here, running everything from white tablecloth restaurants to taco trucks. Their opinion: Don’t go upscale.

Hopefully bigger brains will stop this nonsense, fire the consultant and negotiate a discounted fee, and ask Lackmeyer for his reporter’s notes.

Why are you blaming the government here? This is Devon's deal. Talk to Larry Nichols.

This is so characteristic of how government approaches a problem: Hire an out-of-town consultant (who has probably never even run or worked in a restaurant) so if the concept fails there is someone to blame. What does Lackmeyer do? He finds a handful of local people who have succeeded and failed here, running everything from white tablecloth restaurants to taco trucks. Their opinion: Don’t go upscale.

Hopefully bigger brains will stop this nonsense, fire the consultant and negotiate a discounted fee, and ask Lackmeyer for his reporter’s notes.

The only thing I found of interest is that all the upscale owners quoted said don't do it, it won't work - meanwhile - they are doing it and succeeding. Me thinks I hear a little Academy Sports in their voice. If a fast-food place was being brought in I am sure the local fast-food places would be opposed as well.

Why is anyone complaining about the torn up streets in the first place? Did you think they were going to wave a magic wand and they'd all be instantly fixed? Get a grip. Someone also says ALL the streets are torn up at once? Negative, they actually are concentrating on certain segments to speed up the process. I know for a fact the streets are NOT torn up all the way from Reno to the Memorial. I suggest some of you go to the Project 180 facebook page and check out all the information and photos over there to get a better understanding of the project. It's full of information and links to the Makeover Magazines. I think you all would enjoy it.

Sooner – We both technically stand corrected. Digging deeper, however, the committee consists of Jim Couch, JoeVan Bullard, Larry Nichols, Mark Beffort and Bill Bell. But staff makes the recommendations, and from what I’ve found, they have government or chamber backgrounds. These aren’t people who understand how the private sector works. Their common understanding is meetings, memos, Gantt charts and the Abilene Paradox, and the most important thing to them is not getting fired. In this instance, I’ll venture that none has ever fronted the money for a restaurant, worked in the front of a restaurant, or signed the front side of somebody’s paycheck. As for Parrot, Paul, Mathis, Johnson and Lower, their common understanding is how to successfully turn bank debt and investor equity into products that Oklahomans will stand in line for, while bearing 100% of the downside risk if it fails.

“Manask…has assured the city a fine dining restaurant is the appropriate pick for the region and the gardens.” Easy to say when you’re collecting a big fee, have no downside risk and live 1,000+ miles away.