They have but the next of EKG work out to bid, but it looks like they will only be doing Reno to Sheridan.

After all of EKG was cut, they went out and got federal funding to redo all the way up to Main. But it appears the Sheridan to Main segment has once again been cut.

The new plan is for new signage and striping from Sheridan to NW 4th.

^Wait, so they aren't re-doing EKG from Sheridan to Main now?

Ugh, EKG is in critical need of redesign...it's a huge barrier and eyesore separating the CBD and Bricktown/Deep Deuce

^Wait, so they aren't re-doing EKG from Sheridan to Main now?

I don't believe so.

The package was supposed to be for both segments and now is only for Reno to Sheridan with restriping and new signage from Sheridan to NW 4th.

Ugh, EKG is in critical need of redesign...it's a huge barrier and eyesore separating the CBD and Bricktown/Deep Deuce

It is a barrier. It makes Bricktown and Deep Deuce feel cut off from downtown.

it's stupid to only do a two block (one superblock) of EKG fronting the station/cox. If they can't do more then why do any at this time?

why not wait until more funds/appropriate design and the streetcar rail is laid THEN redesign all of EKG?

One thing about OKC that really irks me, not very well thought out or planned refurbishment that turns out half-a** and small time.

it's stupid to only do a two block (one superblock) of EKG fronting the station/cox. If they can't do more then why do any at this time?

why not wait until more funds/appropriate design and the streetcar rail is laid THEN redesign all of EKG?

One thing about OKC that really irks me, not very well thought out or planned refurbishment that turns out half-a** and small time.

And it just keeps on happening on so many projects. Why is there nobody in the city that understands this? Are they in their own little bubble (like the OK legislature - do they not read *anything* that tells them they suck at doing their job (here, Okiefunk, Tulsa World, TLO, etc.) or do they just read the Joklahoman)? Do they not drive over those crosswalks and think "Hmm, maybe we can do better next time?"? Do they not look at those plans and realize "Wow, we suck, we didn't get nearly enough done and spent way too much money?"? And then they keep right on doing it...

And it just keeps on happening on so many projects. Why is there nobody in the city that understands this? Are they in their own little bubble (like the OK legislature - do they not read *anything* that tells them they suck at doing their job (here, Okiefunk, Tulsa World, TLO, etc.) or do they just read the Joklahoman)? Do they not drive over those crosswalks and think "Hmm, maybe we can do better next time?"? Do they not look at those plans and realize "Wow, we suck, we didn't get nearly enough done and spent way too much money?"? And then they keep right on doing it...

So much this. It sure seems like they aren't fixing these longstanding issues.

They've started on the pedestrian plaza between Coroporate, Oklahoma and Devon Tower and the old IRS building.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180061616.jpg

They've started on the pedestrian plaza between Corporate, Oklahoma and Devon Towers and the old IRS building.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180061616.jpg

any idea of timeline?

Not sure if they are going to do it all at once... My best guess is at least a year to complete.

any idea of timeline?

I work in Oklahoma Tower. They sent us an email about a month ago. I think I deleted it, and I can't remember if they told us how long it would be. I can dig through my email next week to see if I still have it. Here is the site plan they sent us though:
12707

We are hosting a globally renowned Matisse exhibit at our art museum. REALLY GREAT TIME TO SHUT DOWN HUDSON AVE. FOR PROJECT 180?!?!?!

Sorry, this needed its own thread. WITAF?

This city...just...doesn't...get it sometimes.

The self loathing and complaining on this board is getting out of control.

It's not always a bad thing to have construction around things like this. It lets people know this city is being invested in.

I know people coming in from out of state for this exhibit....none of whom will be bothered by P180. In fact, most remember OKC as it was 5-10 years ago and all state how impressed they are with the progress of downtown. Growing, developing cities have construction going on somewhere all the time.

I know people coming in from out of state for this exhibit....none of whom will be bothered by P180. In fact, most remember OKC as it was 5-10 years ago and all state how impressed they are with the progress of downtown. Growing, developing cities have construction going on somewhere all the time.

I totally agree. It's just not an issue.

Reno now closed at EKG as they start the P180 work on the west side of EKG:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18090516.jpg

Reno now closed at EKG as they start the P180 work on the west side of EKG:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180090516.jpg

Here is an updated map.

Reminder that this was all to be complete in 2014, then by the end of 2015 (this was the latest promise) and as we near the end of 2016 -- even after deleting about 40% of the project -- some sections have yet to start.

The green under construction sections in the middle of the CBD (Park, Harvey and Kerr) are all open but not completely finished.

Also, after promising over 2 years ago to repaint all the crosswalks, a handful were done but many more have not been touched. Two requests for an update have been made without response.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/project180090716.jpg

(Insert obligatory excuse post defending the city here)

Here is an updated map.

Reminder that this was all to be complete in 2014, then by the end of 2015 (this was the latest promise) and as we near the end of 2016 -- even after deleting about 40% of the project -- some sections have yet to start.

The green under construction sections in the middle of the CBD (Park, Harvey and Kerr) are all open but not completely finished.

Also, after promising over 2 years ago to repaint all the crosswalks, a handful were done but many more have not been touched. Two requests for an update have been made without response.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/project180090716.jpg

Any thoughts on the causes? Lack of funds/resources? Other construction interfering? Other priorities. I mean, delays in construction, especially public works, happen. This seems more than normal though.

No one actively provides oversight on such things and thus the people in charge are never held to account.

Seems like they bit off way more than they can chew with this project.

No one actively provides oversight on such things and thus the people in charge are never held to account.

But there's a P180 project manager?

But there's a P180 project manager?

Not really, as it's managed mainly by Eric Wenger as far as I can tell.

But what I really mean is that his / their continued promises to stick to a schedule and budget are repeatedly broken and they merely change their plans to the new dates and dollars without ever reporting against the original budgets / timelines.

Therefore, nothing ever changes. If they go way over on time and/or money, they just change the numbers, issue a press release that is printed by local media without scrutiny, and on it goes.

Remember how they swore they had learned their lessons and would now be doing this in smaller, more manageable bites? Exact same results, not that anyone is paying close attention.

Imagine this in the private sector or even at the state level where everything gets scrutinized.... You put together a budget and timeline, miss it by miles, and merely change the dates and numbers -- completely ignoring the originals -- and do this every year or so after the previous promises are missed.

I've never seen projects not managed and reported against original budgets, scope and timelines. And by not doing so, you can be sure no one is ever held accountable and thus we never actually learn / adjust / improve.

And that is exactly the case with this project that is now literally years behind, even with drastic reduction the amount of work to be performed and having to bring in more tax dollars to even complete roughly 60% of what was originally promised.

Not really, as it's managed mainly by Eric Wenger as far as I can tell.


At program inception, there were multiple dedicated employees. Not sure now.

No one actively provides oversight on such things and thus the people in charge are never held to account.

Couldn't agree more. Partially a symptom of the continued dumbing-down of our local (particularly broadcast) media outlets, in my opinion.

At program inception, there were multiple dedicated employees. Not sure now.

But Wenger is always the one to answer questions and make presentations. And when I've called to get answers, they always refer me to him.

Remember when the Bicentennial park was rushed to be finished? The amount of workers and urgency was astonishing in just a few weeks. Why is P180 such an afterthought when it affects daily lives and businesses way more than that park?

The work on EKG seems to be moving much more quickly than previous P180 spots.

But Wenger is always the one to answer questions and make presentations. And when I've called to get answers, they always refer me to him.

That's more a measure of information control than it is who is managing the work... He gets info from staff, tells it to you. Most OKC departments operate on a command-control basis whereby Directors/Assistant Directors make all public presentations. A few allow lower-level employees to make public comments, but generally it's always at top level to ensure message is on-point.

Pete, is any possibility that the deleted sections might come back in a new bond?

Pete, is any possibility that the deleted sections might come back in a new bond?

I don't think so.

A couple of sections of EKG were added back with the help of federal funding around the Santa Fe Depot.

I suppose it's completely out of the question that they'd come back in a Maps IV?

or 2017 GoBond?

It is amazing how nice the finished 180 projects are compared to the other roads.
When I was going to work at the arena, we were at Reno and Robinson, Reno was blocked off between arenas and needed to be on EK Gaylord, my driver kept going south and it was very bumpy plus longer, I just him to go north around the Myriad, because it was shorter and smooth. Hope the roads around the park and convention center get the 180 treatment and unify the area.

I don't think so.

A couple of sections of EKG were added back with the help of federal funding around the Santa Fe Depot.

Why do you think that? I don't see a reason why they wouldn't be included. However, they might not be designed to P180 standards, perhaps a different design scheme...

Why do you think that? I don't see a reason why they wouldn't be included. However, they might not be designed to P180 standards, perhaps a different design scheme...

Some of the streets might be repaved but I seriously doubt they will give those deleted segments the full P180 treatment.

In fact, at some point I'd like to total up all the P180 elements that were skipped even in the segments they did 'complete'. Many places they didn't do the pavers, lighting, etc... And there were sections where those things had been planned then they realized it would be too expensive / too much hassle and just skipped some of it.

For example, on Robinson near First National and the Oil & Gas Building to the south, they barely touched the sidewalks and the old lighting is still in place years after that section was supposedly finished. On the other side of Robinson, there was the full P180 treatment with the new lighting directly across from the old stuff.

And along Main north of the Century Center, they still have those horrible 1970's globe lights on both sides of the street.

I think they want to wrap up this project and put it behind them.

BTW, repeated requests for an updated schedule for both the crosswalk repainting and the overall schedule (which we were last told would be complete in 2015) have gone unanswered.

BTW, people probably wonder why I care so much about Project 180 and TIF.

It's because I started following both very early on and thus have tracked both programs in great detail for years. In both cases, it was a unique opportunity to collect the materials and reports from the outset, then follow the subsequent reports supplemented by my own investigation and open records requests and get a window into how the city operates by viewing completely compartmentalized projects, each with its own budget, scope and timeline.

With each program, it is my opinion the City has gone out of its way to not be completely truthful and to merely change budgets and projects without ever referring to the original, making it impossible to track exactly what is going on unless you have happened to save the documents from years past.

I've personally managed multi-million construction projects and very large program budgets and I realize none of this is easy.

To the extent I'm critical it's because 1) I believe the city is sometimes misleading in the way it presents information; 2) no one in the local press follows this close enough or cares enough to fact check; 3) there are hundreds of millions of tax dollars at stake; 4) the impact on these programs on downtown in particular is very high profile; and 5) mistakes are made, not recognized, not corrected and therefore repeated.

I will also say that being able to follow these projects and see how they are handled makes me wonder if other things are handled in a similar manner at City Hall. It's very hard to tell because they almost never, ever report against original budgets and timelines. They just merely keep changing them along the way.

People in OKC seem to think the city is managed pretty well because we have not encountered the debt issues that have plagued some other municipalities. I'm not sure that is the proper standard of evaluation, as there is clearly much more to all this than not running up debt.

And one final point... Virtually everyone -- including the local press -- loves to slam federal, state and county government. All are presumed to be corrupt and incompetent and thus openly criticized and watched like a hawk for any paper clip overcharge or misstep of leadership.

But somehow city government is just so great that's it's not even necessary to scrutinize or question or fact check?

Put another way: How would anyone know if there were bad things happening at City Hall? I've actually asked that question to many around town and all agree that 'we wouldn't'.

I think more fundamentally, the city needs to fully commit to walkability and transit. This is what happens when you sort of half-way commit to something. Unfortunately almost all cities typically move very incrementally toward bold goals.

They are going to town on the pedestrian plaza between Devon, Oklahoma and Corporate towers.

But also note in this photo: absolutely no markings on this part of Main which was 'finished' years ago. Also note the old 1970's globe light fixture on the right rather than the new ones used elsewhere in P180 work.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180091016.jpg

I counted all the P180 intersections and of 36, only 15 have been repainted more than 2 years after the promise to do so was made.

They basically did Reno, Sheridan and Walker then completely stopped.

How many of these are going to be affected by streetcar work? Is it possible they don't see the point in painting something to only be jacked up again? Just asking.

How many of these are going to be affected by streetcar work? Is it possible they don't see the point in painting something to only be jacked up again? Just asking.

Most the ones they repainted will be affected; most the ones they have not painted will not be affected.

LOL then I have no idea

Most the ones they repainted will be affected; most the ones they have not painted will not be affected.

Please tell me this isn't a government project.

Please tell me this isn't a government project.

are you kidding? that's a telltale sign it IS a government project

are you kidding? that's a telltale sign it IS a government project

I was being sarcastic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2YZnTL596Q watch at 25 seconds

I knew you were just adding my non sarcastic take

Please tell me this isn't a government project.

Apollo 13

I just watched that again a couple of weeks ago.

I read the headline of the article I am about to post and let out an audible "HA!"... You'll see why...

Project 180 to be finished by summer

But then there's the streetcar

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record September 21, 2016

OKLAHOMA CITY – Next summer, nearly 10 years after the City Council approved it, Project 180 streetscaping in downtown will be finished.

Downtowners won’t have to maneuver around road construction or torn-up parks anymore, said spokeswoman Shannon Cox at City Hall. Benches, traffic lights and trees will all be in place.

At least until MAPS 3 work begins on the new streetcar route.

“Obviously, there’s all kinds of other stuff going on,” she said. “But Project 180 will be complete.”

Project 180 has been funded through a tax increment finance district that the City Council approved in 2008. At the time, Devon Energy executives asked City Hall to establish the TIF when the company received approval from the Urban Renewal Authority to build its new headquarters. The company pushed for a broad range of public improvements in the Core to Shore redevelopment area just north of the Oklahoma River.

The scope of work also called for renovating the Myriad Botanical Gardens park, Bicentennial Park at the Civic Center Music Hall and several other small green areas scattered through the business district.

City officials originally estimated the full project, broken down into smaller contract packages, would take half as long as it has. Delays have been blamed on the complexity of digging up old downtown streets as crews run into badly mapped utility lines and basements. Although City Hall has a history of pushing back Project 180 completion dates six months at a time, Cox said Wednesday that contractors have been meeting their deadlines with allowances for unforeseen problems.

The flow of money into the projects also has been on schedule, Cox said. The TIF district has produced about $125 million in increased tax revenue from construction of the Devon Energy Center, while general obligation bonds passed in a 2007 bond election have provided about $40 million and the Oklahoma City Water Utilities Trust has produced $11 million.

The last contract package of construction work is taking place along E.K. Gaylord Boulevard. Cox said that if any funds remain, city officials will consider applying that money to amenities that might have been missed earlier.

Construction on the $131 million MAPS 3 streetcar is expected to begin this year. Cox said officials have learned a lot from resolving traffic problems during Project 180 and hope to reduce impacts during installation the 4.5-mile rail loop.

City officials originally estimated the full project, broken down into smaller contract packages, would take half as long as it has. Delays have been blamed on the complexity of digging up old downtown streets as crews run into badly mapped utility lines and basements. Although City Hall has a history of pushing back Project 180 completion dates six months at a time, Cox said Wednesday that contractors have been meeting their deadlines with allowances for unforeseen problems.

Fishing for a silver lining here, does that mean the city now has much more up to date maps of the utility lines and basements in downtown everywhere that got the 180 treatment? I assume they took notes about where unexpected stuff was found.

Is there a story behind the raven and apple statue that is now on the corner of Park and Harvey? I tried to google it but didn't see anything. Is there any meaning?

Is there a story behind the raven and apple statue that is now on the corner of Park and Harvey? I tried to google it but didn't see anything. Is there any meaning?

Is it for the new restaurant opening there?

Is it for the new restaurant opening there?

It used to be in the little park between Corporate Tower and the IRS building, but they just moved it to this corner a couple weeks ago. I don't think it's related to Manhattan Bar. It is near where their patio will be, but it is not facing the patio.

I took these photos yesterday.

You can see the atrocious state of the crosswalk right in front of City Hall, which is typical of about 2/3rds of the crosswalks through this project. Also, most the center striping, bike lane and parking lines have worn away and it's been that way for 3 to 4 years in most spots.

You can also see how they didn't even touch the sidewalks around FNC and the Oil & Gas Building to the south, nor did they replace the light fixtures or add any type of hardscape at all.

Right across the street and as was promised for all of these areas, they completely replaced the sidewalks, added pavers, new lighting, etc.

This all gets counted as the "done" sections but in truth they deleted a bunch of the improvements without really saying much about it.

And before anyone mentions that FNC is going to be redone, the cost to improve those sidewalks will have to come from somewhere and you can bet it will come in the form of more public assistance, when Project 180 was supposed to take care of it.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516e.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516f.jpg

These are for the pedestrian project between Oklahoma, Corporate and Devon Tower.

Note the large berms, no doubt to help cut down on the wind tunnel effect.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516g.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516h.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516i.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516j.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516k.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516l.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516m.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180092516n.jpg

What a sham! I can't believe the oversight on this wasn't any better.

Also wanted to point out that all around City Place and Robinson Renaissance, the sidewalks were completely replaced, lighting was changed, pavers were added, etc.

So the excuse of "the building was old and thus we didn't want to disrupt things" doesn't wash.