where on Park is this? i think i still have the plans from this job

But if that's not a concrete pipe going in to that manhole, and inside of that manhole is black, I promise you it's a sanitary sewer

It is at Harvey and Park. I went down and asked the guys working on it. It is sanitary sewer.

it's an ancient spring that the indians used to call the peepeepoopoo waters...

lol

Here are the various options they are considering for EK Gaylord:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ekg2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ekg3.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ekg4.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ekg5.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ekg6.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ekg7.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ekg8.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ekg9.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/ekg10.jpg

Man, I hope this happens.

Seriously, 9 different options? Talk about more wasted time & money. I realize they want to get it right, but trying to decide between 9 different options is going to add so much waste to this project already.

I think that is 4 options.

Oops, you are right.

Man, I hope this happens.

Which one?

I know it won't be popular here, but I like 3A.

2 seems like a step back

Just my very uneducated opinion.

Sorry, forgot to add that. 3B would be my preference. I'd be interested to see the restriping configuration from Main to 4th that would go with each plan.

I know it won't be popular here, but I like 3A.

2 seems like a step back

I could be fine with 3A because it reduces the lane count to 4, but I would prefer the bumpouts. 2 def seems like going backward.

I guess I didn't realize that Gaylord only averages 12k vehicles per day. That is lower than what I was expecting

I could be fine with 3A because it reduces the lane count to 4, but I would prefer the bumpouts. 2 def seems like going backward.

I guess I didn't realize that Gaylord only averages 12k vehicles per day. That is lower than what I was expecting

Yeah the only reason I say 3A over 3B is I worry about future growth, but I think it could be handled, especially if usage is that low.

I just want parking on both sides and AT LEAST 8 foot wide sidewalks. Please just give me this.

3B, for bump-outs please.

From Steve's article, you would assume that this option is the preferred one, even with a rendering. Are there renderings for the other options as well or is there a consensus that 3B will be chosen?

3b

I'll be happy just to be able to walk past the Cox Center on the EKG side.

Right now, there is no sidewalk at all.

I guess I didn't realize that Gaylord only averages 12k vehicles per day. That is lower than what I was expecting

But with a MUCH higher number 41 nights/year.

But with a MUCH higher number 41 nights/year.

Traffic to and from Thunder games is probably comparable or smaller than daily rush hour, but since it typically occurs outside of rush hour, it just means that the capacity of the road is utilized for a longer duration than a typical day.

Tired of the idea that Thunder traffic should decide how our streets look. If a street network can handle typical commute of thousands of workers driving their own car in and out, it can handle 20,000 people carpooling in to a Thunder game.

But with a MUCH higher number 41 nights/year.

I bet it isn't as high as you think.

That 12k average includes Thunder games already - and anything else happening downtown They don't turn off the sensor at 6PM.

An update by Steve on a part of this project that I wasn't familiar with.

Downtown Oklahoma City park is next on Project 180 list | News OK (http://newsok.com/downtown-oklahoma-city-park-is-next-on-project-180-list/article/5441710)


A series of barren concrete walkways that weave around Devon Energy Center, Oklahoma Tower, the Robinson Renaissance and Robinson Plaza buildings is set to be transformed next year into a landscaped series of passageways reflecting improvements on nearby Robinson Avenue and the Myriad Gardens.

That was always part of the P180 plan, it just got pushed way back in the timeline for some reason.

They also planned improvements to two other public spaces but cut them due to budget overruns.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/project180ped.jpg

The Robinson & Park intersection has reopened (from https://twitter.com/DowntownOKC):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COYhNSqUEAAR9DY.jpg:large

The Robinson & Park intersection has reopened (from https://twitter.com/DowntownOKC):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/COYhNSqUEAAR9DY.jpg:large

Park between Robinson and Broadway is now open; Park between Robinson and Harvey is the second photo:



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180102515.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180102515b.jpg

Not part of P180, but my apartment landlord told me the City contacted him to let him know that N Robinson between 13th and 16th will be changed from one-way to two-way within the next several months. He added that most, if not all, of the intersections in Heritage Hills and Mesta Park will be changed to 4-way stops to discourage through-traffic.

^That is very exciting!

Re: EKG, 3b would be nice but you all know we aren't getting bump outs. The P180 improvements on Walker will be undone before we get bump outs on a major arterial.

Re: Oklahoma/Corporate tower walkways, one silver lining is that the P180 timeline will push pedestrians out to the streets for a probably longer than anticipated period.

Re: EKG, 3b would be nice but you all know we aren't getting bump outs. The P180 improvements on Walker will be undone before we get bump outs on a major arterial.

Re: Oklahoma/Corporate tower walkways, one silver lining is that the P180 timeline will push pedestrians out to the streets for a probably longer than anticipated period.I was thinking about this the other day.

So far we've demoed the Stage Center, 4 buildings on the Preftakes Block, and we're set to demo a ton of buildings on HubCap alley(drove around there last night and there are some pretty cool buildings, the International Harvester, and the Film Exchange building.

I do my best not to think about it because it just upsets me but damn that's a lot of historic buildings.

nm

Not part of P180, but my apartment landlord told me the City contacted him to let him know that N Robinson between 13th and 16th will be changed from one-way to two-way within the next several months. He added that most, if not all, of the intersections in Heritage Hills and Mesta Park will be changed to 4-way stops to discourage through-traffic.
I'm not sure if that is the right approach. Seems to me all that will ultimately do is piss off drivers and cause them to run the stop signs. I think round-a-bouts would be the best solution. That and narrowing the lanes and adding protected bike lanes would be cool.

I'm not sure if that is the right approach. Seems to me all that will ultimately do is piss off drivers and cause them to run the stop signs. I think round-a-bouts would be the best solution. That and narrowing the lanes and adding protected bike lanes would be cool.

While some may not like it since the average speed decreases, due to how long signal cycles are it actually tends to not be that much worse average travel time trough unless it has more traffic than those roads do.

E.K. Gaylord south to I-40 is supposed to be open today! Just in time for the Thunder's season.

Anyone been down there? Any pics?

^

I'll try and get over there and check it out.

Yesterday, it looked like it was pretty much ready to go.

E.K. Gaylord south to I-40 is supposed to be open today! Just in time for the Thunder's season.

Anyone been down there? Any pics?

I wonder how 'low' the road will be coming up from EKG to the west ?

I'm not sure if that is the right approach. Seems to me all that will ultimately do is piss off drivers and cause them to run the stop signs. I think round-a-bouts would be the best solution. That and narrowing the lanes and adding protected bike lanes would be cool.

I believe that adding stop signs for slowing down traffic is frowned upon and doesn't really work - people just get pissed off and fly to the next stop sign and float through it, lather/rinse/repeat for however many stop signs there are. Although it might have the intended effect - some drivers are just going to say "F*** it, not going that way anymore" - it probably isn't the right way to do it, since the people that *have* to use those streets will get fed up with all the stops that are unnecessary.

Chapter 2B - MUTCD 2009 Edition - FHWA (http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/htm/2009/part2/part2b.htm#section2B05)

I was thinking about this the other day.

So far we've demoed the Stage Center, 4 buildings on the Preftakes Block, and we're set to demo a ton of buildings on HubCap alley(drove around there last night and there are some pretty cool buildings, the International Harvester, and the Film Exchange building.

I do my best not to think about it because it just upsets me but damn that's a lot of historic buildings.

I obviously endorse the above post, but remind me what you're responding to? :)

I obviously endorse the above post, but remind me what you're responding to? :)I honestly have no idea what I got out of your post that made me say that. I agree with what I said but I don't know why I said it.

I honestly have no idea what I got out of your post that made me say that. I agree with what I said but I don't know why I said it.

Sleep, plupan. :)

I'm falling asleep. Too much studying and OKCTalk :P

I honestly have no idea what I got out of your post that made me say that. I agree with what I said but I don't know why I said it.

Well you made great arguments nonetheless. Also consider how each of those lost assets could've been something like The Plow or 21C.

It's just crazy too how we are still doing this in a time where we have realized the value of these buildings. Well, at least 99% of other cities have.

I got photos of the new street. And the BLVD intersection on it. Upload tonight.

E.K. Gaylord south to I-40 is supposed to be open today! Just in time for the Thunder's season.

Anyone been down there? Any pics?

The Oklahoman made it there to take video. It's open.

NewsOK Videos | Gaylord reopens to traffic in downtown Oklahoma City (http://newsok.com/multimedia/video/4586678782001)

http://i.imgur.com/8FW5z10.jpg




http://i.imgur.com/1fkj39n.jpg




http://i.imgur.com/WkDriJR.jpg



http://i.imgur.com/XGCQleK.jpg



http://i.imgur.com/LvsDATH.jpg



http://i.imgur.com/Yv0alB6.jpg



http://i.imgur.com/cBIpsik.jpg




http://i.imgur.com/ShLCMBc.jpg

^

Thanks for the photos!

My goodness. Look at how narrow that sidewalk is next to that retaining wall. Does anyone - ANYONE - want to walk up that path with cars whizzing past at 45 mph only feet away? Probably with your back turned to them? Does anyone want to take that on with a stroller or wheelchair?

The only reason that sidewalk even exists in the first place is because it is the minimum ODOT could get away with by law. This, only yards from where tens of thousands of people congregate for events. SHAMEFUL.

http://i.imgur.com/LvsDATH.jpg

^^^ Yup, I walked down this entire stretch just before the game (when I took these photos) and it was not comforting at all.

I agree that's pretty piss poor, but most folks walking south in that area not walking down Shields are they? Seems that more of the foot traffic is to the west.

I agree that's pretty piss poor, but most folks walking south in that area not walking down Shields are they? Seems that more of the foot traffic is to the west.

Doesn't matter.

Either don't put it there, or make it safe. Half-assing it to save money at people's security (or even worse, lives) is just not worth it.

Doesn't matter.

Either don't put it there, or make it safe. Half-assing it to save money at people's security (or even worse, lives) is just not worth it.

I agree, I just asked a question.

Oh my. This is terrible.

It's still narrow, but with enough griping a pipe rail could be retrofitted pretty easily I would think.

The danger will be compounded by the fact that this is going to be the corner of an intersection with a boulevard full of cars that have just exited the interstate. They will still be trying to travel at freeway speed (just like those who've just exited I-235 routinely try to when they come screaming down Walnut, the Walnut Avenue Bridge and Mickey Mantle into Bricktown), and the design of the boulevard ENCOURAGES this high speed. Many of them will try to beat a light while turning left onto Shields, which also feels like a highway. Guaranteed some of them will fail to properly negotiate the turn at speed and will jump the curb and hit the wall. Will there be a person (or people) walking there when it happens? People who will be pinned between the car and the wall? I hope not. But the visual by itself will discourage use of that sidewalk. It tells people quite clearly that cars rule in this location.

The built environment should not only protect pedestrians, but it should inform drivers that they are in an area with mixed modes of transit - including walkers - where they should slow down and exercise care. This design does neither.

A blind intersection of two 6 lanes roads each designed for 70mph - what could possibly go wrong? My prediction - this intersection will quickly become the most deadly in the state.

A blind intersection of two 6 lanes roads each designed for 70mph - what could possibly go wrong? My prediction - this intersection will quickly become the most deadly in the state.

Not to defend the design, but there are stop lights and a 35 mph speed limit. Don't see 70 mph speeds even if so designed.

Not to defend the design, but there are stop lights and a 35 mph speed limit. Don't see 70 mph speeds even if so designed.

Speed limit signs don't mean much if the street design intuitively tells people they can go fast.

11721

Via Strong Towns, via the Transportation Psychologist, originally by Wes Craiglow, City of Conway, AR.

If you have to rely on speed limit signs (and enforcement) to get people to drive a certain speed, your street is designed wrong. The built environment should give you visual cues as to what the safe speed should be. The problem is that generations of traffic engineers have been trained to over-engineer our streets for the safety of people in automobiles, with zero consideration given to other uses.

Hey, All those motorcycle cops can slow 'em down, have a little faith.....

Gawd, seriously? OK screws it up once again in planning streets/sidewalks, just one of manymanymanymany such screwups.

Is there *anything* that can be done about this (or future fiascos, since y'all *know* there will be future fiascos)? Can folks meet with the engineers and tell them to their face that they're complete f-ing idiots when it comes to this kind of stuff? Can we write to the folks that did this or are in charge of the folks that did this or to our councilperson or do anything that would have an impact?

Is there *any* hope of getting anything changed (attitudes, etc.) so that they'll do things the proper way? Or are we just doomed to this kind of craptacular stuff until the current and next generation finally dies (and yes, I'll also be long gone by then) and some people with a clue get to be in charge?

Robert S. Kerr between Hudson and Harvey now partially reopened:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180121315a.jpg