Covered in the boulevard thread, but that description is misleading. There will be no "bridge" per se; the more accurate description is railroad underpass. There will be a tunnel through the railroad viaduct similar to the ones at Reno/Sheridan/Main, but deeper to allow for modern clearance requirements.

Since the boulevard's elevation will be considerably below the existing grade when it comes through the viaduct, EK Gaylord/Shields will be depressed beginning at Reno, intersect with the boulevard, and return to the existing grade by SW 4th.

Covered in the boulevard thread, but that description is misleading. There will be no "bridge" per se; the more accurate description is railroad underpass. There will be a tunnel through the railroad viaduct similar to the ones at Reno/Sheridan/Main, but deeper to allow for modern clearance requirements.

Since the boulevard's elevation will be considerably below the existing grade when it comes through the viaduct, EK Gaylord/Shields will be depressed beginning at Reno, intersect with the boulevard, and return to the existing grade by SW 4th.

Thanks. That caught me by surprise and I was about to upset myself over the boulevard all over again.

Thanks. That caught me by surprise and I was about to upset myself over the boulevard all over again.

Yeah, the wording is misleading and stories need to be made straight. Check out the Friends for a better Boulevard thread. Urbanized went back and forth on this a few times. He has info that I don't and I was going off of the description which are incorrect in some instances.

So other than about 2 or 3 intersections that were re-striped, why aren't doing anything about this? The streets look like crap. The intersections they did re-strip are already starting to lose paint again!

I will post some pictures of what I wish project 180 would have been.

So other than about 2 or 3 intersections that were re-striped, why aren't doing anything about this? The streets look like crap. The intersections they did re-strip are already starting to lose paint again!

I will post some pictures of what I wish project 180 would have been.

Are you sure the ones you saw (where the paint was coming off) have been re-striped?

If you could provide photos and locations, I'll be happy to follow up with the P180 manager.

Are you sure the ones you saw (where the paint was coming off) have been re-striped?

If you could provide photos and locations, I'll be happy to follow up with the P180 manager.Pete, I plan to go out and get a bunch of photos within the next week or two(if you or anyone else have any requests let me know), I will get pictures of every street and intersection that is missing paint and or hasn't been striped at all.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but one of the intersections that was recently re-striped was in front of the Colcord and Century Center, right? It's Sheridan and Robinson.

Here are some examples of work I would have like to have seen project 180 put in. I love the fact that they are using cement as opposed to asphalt(I do not like asphalt), but they could have put more quality and design elements than just cement and paint.

Cross Walks

http://www.pavestone.com/wp-content/uploads/City-I-II-III-Sierra-Blend-Symetry-Square-Plum.jpg

http://cobblesystems.com/wp-content/gallery/commercial/crosswalk.jpg

http://poblockipaving.com/project-gallery/streetprint/duratherm/DuraTherm-Crosswalk-Concord-NC.jpg

http://511contracosta.org/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/diagonal-crosswalks-01.jpeg

http://editorial.designtaxi.com/news-ibm2012/1.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e5/Crosswalk_in_Burnaby_British_Columbia_Canada.JPG

http://thumb1.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/306976/98456660/stock-photo-empty-pedestrian-crosswalk-traffic-lights-speed-bump-on-two-lane-blacktop-pavement-street-98456660.jpg

Bike Lanes and sidewalks

http://thisoldcity.com/sites/default/files/images/photo%206.JPG

http://www.streetsblog.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10_22/centerblvd.jpg

http://thisoldcity.com/sites/default/files/images/photo%201.JPG

http://www.bilsonassociates.com/images/Atlantic3.jpg

http://scenariojournal.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/IMG_7289.jpg

http://www.westsidemobilityplan.fehrandpeers.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/LivableBlvd2.jpg

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/0b/05/cb/0b05cb42b5a2e93c5b94c7214af110f3.jpg

Streets

http://www.trinitywebmanager.com/deco/images/windgate_2.jpg

http://sweatingthesmallstuff.typepad.com/.a/6a00e553d8274e88340120a520db0d970b-pi

http://landscapeonline.com/research/lasn/2004/08/img/winter_park/winter_park_2.jpg

http://www.edsaplan.com/files/imagecache/medium-size/media-image/portfolio/aia-streetscape-intersection-fish-paving-pattern-road-complet-62.jpg

Lighting

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mPxAl9-hYzM/TFcnhCSpv4I/AAAAAAAACG0/b3EzWT9thuM/s1600/solar-cell-street-lamp-493x331.jpg

http://www.rnrassociates.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/deco_02-400x335.jpg

http://churchm.ag/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/EcoFriendlyStreetLampBiolamp-e1303400386571.jpg

http://earthtechling.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/mango.jpg

Traffic lights and stop signs

https://photos.travelblog.org/Photos/75778/419225/f/4059237-Cool-looking-street-lights-0.jpg

http://www.rnrassociates.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/06/mobius-strip-lamp1.jpg

http://urbanprankster.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/berlin-alexander-platz-ampel-stern.jpg

https://i1.ytimg.com/vi/fiznpGdVsiY/hqdefault.jpg

http://www.planetizen.com/files/hourglass-traffic-light.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HXqtuhAqhKo/T3qzJArKjdI/AAAAAAAABZ0/zNT1RNP_rDw/s1600/traffic08.jpg

http://www.tuvie.com/wp-content/uploads/solo-traffic-light-by-matheus-de-luca-moreira-pinto1.jpg

Other cool features

http://www.homedecorgallery.org/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Cool-lamp-design-for-exterior.jpg

http://www.informationdisplay.com/httpdocs/idc_graphics/idc_traffic_flow.jpg

http://jetsetta.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/Most_Innovative_Bus_Stop_Concepts_3.jpg

Hopefully some of these concepts will be used in other districts.

I've said it before & I'll say it again. YES project 80 is an improvement from what we had, BUT it is also the biggest waste of time & money Oklahoma City has ever experienced. It will take 3 decades before it is "complete" and by then it will be time to redo it.

Pluplan, those examples are awesome.

We should start a go fund me for those laser screen cross walks! That's so awesome as are all of those examples, thanks for sharing man!

Yeah, those are really cool! I like the hourglass. At first I thought it was a wine glass, and I was like, what the hell?

I think you might have a future in crosswalk design PluPan. Highways? Not so much. ;)

But seriously, those are some great ideas and another example of things OKC could adopt rather than trying to reinvent the wheel or do it half arsed as P180-90 has been.

You know why its called project 180?

Because everywhere you drive you have to turn around because of the construction.

You know why its called project 180?

Because everywhere you drive you have to turn around because of the construction.

Bu-dum chhhhhh

I've said it before & I'll say it again. YES project 80 is an improvement from what we had, BUT it is also the biggest waste of time & money Oklahoma City has ever experienced. It will take 3 decades before it is "complete" and by then it will be time to redo it.

Pluplan, those examples are awesome.
Are you kidding? While it was POORLY MANAGED, and money was wasted (expected with govt), it has made a HUGE impact on the general aesthetics of downtown in just 3 or so years. Besides Devon Tower, I'd say single handedly P180 has made the most impact on downtown other than Devon Tower in the last decade.

Are you kidding? While it was POORLY MANAGED, and money was wasted (expected with govt), it has made a HUGE impact on the general aesthetics of downtown in just 3 or so years. Besides Devon Tower, I'd say single handedly P180 has made the most impact on downtown other than Devon Tower in the last decade.

I absolutely agree, metro. Anyone walking around downtown on a regular basis has to be impressed with the differences and it has to have an impact on potential projects. Anyone who thinks otherwise just doesn't remember what it was like before. As for saying it will be 3 decades before it is complete, no projects like that anywhere are ever "complete". Updates and improvements are always necessary.

I've said it before & I'll say it again. YES project 80 is an improvement from what we had, BUT it is also the biggest waste of time & money Oklahoma City has ever experienced. It will take 3 decades before it is "complete" and by then it will be time to redo it.

Pluplan, those examples are awesome.

I hope you are kidding. While Project 180 has been a headache for everyone involved, it has improved walkability and the overall appearance of the CBD in extremely positive ways. It's very immature to say that the benefits of doing Project 180 do not outweigh the negatives. The program was not a waste of money, as a whole. (Money has been wasted but the entire project is not a waste)

I should be more clear in my posts, I just try to avoid 5000 word posts that nobody will read anyway. (You guys didn't even read my short post, where I said it was an improvement).

I admit, my original post was a bit of exaggeration. Let's dive deeper in to my points though.

The Myriad Gardens was the one true success of project 180. If I'm not mistaken, Devon was responsible for this contribution. This was far away the one part of the project where you could really show a great ROI. It gets a ton more use, and pulls in a lot of people to downtown. Don't get me started on the bicentennial park though. Why were we even worried about improving parks when streets & sidewalks has suffered from setbacks & cuts?

I'll ask a question though, what was the point of improving "walkability" of our CBD, when our downtown design review committee has no intention of trying to get people to walk on the streets anyway? What businesses even benefit from increased walkability in downtown? Really, what ROI has been shown to businesses in the CBD since project 180 started? MANY MANY MANY businesses have suffered from the construction, some have even completely failed. To say that walkability has improved currently under 180 is a joke. There have been complete blocks that are physically impossible to traverse since 180 started.

After all the work we have done to improve the streets, A LOT of them will be torn out to implement the street car. We couldve finished streets that we havent even started, that WONT be affected by the street car. Horrible planning.

The project went over budget, went WAY passed the deadline, and even cut 50% of the work. In what quantitative ways could you guys say project 180 is successful? Because we can drive both ways in some of our streets? By only improving some streets, and leaving others 1 way, will it make car travel more confusing than it already was?

Like I said multiple times before, overall project 180 has been an improvement from what we had. Was it worth the cost & time spent? NO. At what point would you all have said it wasn't worth it, in time & money? Or is there even a limit? Do you just look at the final product and says "This is a lot better, totally worth it!" without looking at the cost & time, and other extrinsic effects?

I personally like the streetscape design and work that has been done.

My issues have always been about the way the project has been managed and the way the budget and schedule have been misleadingly reported.

By the way, the work on the City Hall lawn is set to start very soon, which is the last public space piece of P180.

Sure it has been mismanaged, money hasn't been spent wisely within the project. But on a macro scale, Project 180 has been a success. It has improved many areas of the downtown streetscape. It has added much needed improvements in infrastructure, one-way to two-way conversions, bike lanes, landscaping, activation of underused public space, and increased on street parking. Overall the benefits have far outweighed the negative aspects of project management and resource allocation. Could things have been done better. YES. Are things better than they were before? HELL YES.

Sure it has been mismanaged, money hasn't been spent wisely within the project. But on a macro scale, Project 180 has been a success. It has improved many areas of the downtown streetscape. It has added much needed improvements in infrastructure, one-way to two-way conversions, bike lanes, landscaping, activation of underused public space, and increased on street parking. Overall the benefits have far outweighed the negative aspects of project management and resource allocation. Could things have been done better. YES. Are things better than they were before? HELL YES.

I second this. Yes Hell Yes

I second this. Yes Hell Yes

:cool: AGREE

How likely is it that Walker's bike lanes are going to be removed and the street made four lanes as a consequence of the 499 Sheridan development? Hopefully they would at least still keep adequate bike route signage.

I'll be glad when it's all done. And I also agree it's much improved.

Sure it has been mismanaged, money hasn't been spent wisely within the project. But on a macro scale, Project 180 has been a success. It has improved many areas of the downtown streetscape. It has added much needed improvements in infrastructure, one-way to two-way conversions, bike lanes, landscaping, activation of underused public space, and increased on street parking. Overall the benefits have far outweighed the negative aspects of project management and resource allocation. Could things have been done better. YES. Are things better than they were before? HELL YES.

Thanks for reading my post. I never said it wasn't an improvement (in fact, I stated it was 3 times).

I guess the concept of ROI is lost on most people. It seems like you'd be just as happy with the exact outcome of Project 180 whether tax payers paid $100 or $100 billion. Whether it took 1 week, or 20 years. As long as it made things better, it doesn't matter how long or how much money it took.

I'll state this one more time :

I LOVE THE IMPROVEMENTS OF PROJECT 180. I HATE HOW MUCH TIME & MONEY IT TOOK FOR THE IMPROVEMENTS, AND IN HINDSIGHT IT WAS NOT WORTH WHAT IT TOOK.

If you judge success on just the outcome, and not what it took to get there than I don't know what to tell you. If I started a business that cost 100 million to get started, and ended up generating 1 million in revenue, would I be considered successful?

Public dollars are not meant to be profit generators. If govt was ran like a private business we would not have roads, public space, transit, etc. Govt provides these things because the private sector does not.

Discussing ROI on a public works project is a red herring.

What we did receive was good. No one will argue that the process was mismanaged.

Public dollars are not meant to be profit generators. If govt was ran like a private business we would not have roads, public space, transit, etc. Govt provides these things because the private sector does not.

Discussing ROI on a public works project is a red herring.

What we did receive was good. No one will argue that the process was mismanaged.

I think we agree, except you think it was worth it & I don't. We both like the outcome & both think it should have come in cheaper & faster.

I don't mean ROI in just a $ sense, so my business example probably doesn't fit very well. I'll use a home as an example. You currently live in a $100,000 home, with 1500 sq ft with 2 bedrooms. You decide you want to tear your home up, build a new home & the contractor quotes you on a new house with 6000 sg ft, 5 bedrooms for $1,000,000 that he will finish in 5 years. 8 years later the contractor comes back to you with a finished 3000 sq ft house, 3 bedrooms but the cost is now $1,500,000. That's exactly what happened with project 180. Sure, your new house is better than your old one but it isn't as nice as you expected & it cost more money.

Hindsight is absolutely 20/20.

If, at the time Project 180 was proposed or starting, that it was apparent that we would only receive half of what they were promising at twice the cost, we would not have done it.

That is in the past, there wasn't any way we could predict the future. Cost overruns were not apparent until we were very far into the project. Sure if we knew then what we knew now, it would not be worth it.

The house is pretty much built. We just have to live with the fact that a ton of money was wasted, but it wasn't a complete waste. What we received was much needed.

It wouldn't surprise me if the P180 cost over-runs were directly related the haphazard implementation plan which was based on an undocumented hand shake agreement.

Some of he over runs occurred when they found basements on some of the buildings extended out into the street. Now that was an unforeseen problem.

We don't yet have the benefit of hindsight. You can't rightfully say that "in hindsight it wasn't worth it" because:


The project isn't finished
The improvements will be in place for decades

Many of the streets and sidewalks being torn up and replaced were decades old; even half a century or more. What was the ROI on THOSE improvements? Pretty significant, I would say. Who recalls the pain and disruption from when they were done, many years ago? In some cases there are probably few even alive to remember the headaches.

How many will remember the hassle of P180 ten or twenty years from now? THAT is when it will be fair to judge the project in hindsight. That said, I do agree that the hardships/closures experienced by some businesses in early phases of P180 were unnecessary and shameful.

We don't yet have the benefit of hindsight. You can't rightfully say that "in hindsight it wasn't worth it" because:


The project isn't finished
The improvements will be in place for decades

Many of the streets and sidewalks being torn up and replaced were decades old; even half a century or more. What was the ROI on THOSE improvements? Pretty significant, I would say. Who recalls the pain and disruption from when they were done, many years ago? In some cases there are probably few even alive to remember the headaches.

How many will remember the hassle of P180 ten or twenty years from now? THAT is when it will be fair to judge the project in hindsight. That said, I do agree that the hardships/closures experienced by some businesses in early phases of P180 were unnecessary and shameful.

That is completely fair. The project shouldn't be judged until we can see the effects it has on the area in the time afterwards. The current frustrations have led me to judge harshly, and hopefully we will see downtown street life blossom and new projects started after it has finished.

Though, I don't regret & I encourage us documenting (this is the largest discussion of project 180 on the internet) the missteps & problems associated with the implementation of 180 for future reference when something like this is done again.

Has anybody else noticed if the newly re-painted crosswalks are peeling again?

Also, approximately what percentage of the intersections have been re-done?

They tried pavers in the NW 23rd crosswalks and they only lasted a few weeks. We have terribly temperamental subsurface conditions here. They were all replaces with formed, dyed concrete.

They tried pavers in the NW 23rd crosswalks and they only lasted a few weeks. We have terribly temperamental subsurface conditions here. They were all replaces with formed, dyed concrete.There is a way. It is done all over the US in many different climates including cities including places like Denver.

Has anybody else noticed if the newly re-painted crosswalks are peeling again?

Also, approximately what percentage of the intersections have been re-done?

I haven't driven them all, but I'd say 25% are redone... I don't think the new paint is peeling, from my more minimal observations. The cool weather has limited the amount of repainting that can be done. Needs to be 40 and rising to paint.

Some of he over runs occurred when they found basements on some of the buildings extended out into the street. Now that was an unforeseen problem.

Why was it unforeseen? Seems like they should've gone into each bldg, walked around downstairs, done some investigation, would've only taken a few people a few weeks to do a very preliminary checkout. Do that *before* you finalize plans and budgets and allow contingency funds for it. I know that they probably did some of those things, but it just baffles me that they kept saying "Wow, we found *another* basement going out under the street", since I don't think they should've been that hard to detect during original planning... I could be completely wrong on all of this and it *was* completely unforeseen, but based on living here for decades, I think they just didn't do due diligence...

I could be completely wrong on all of this and it *was* completely unforeseen,...
Let's go with that assumption.

Let's go with that assumption.

OK, then *why* am I wrong?

Too many asterisks.

Walker being re-striped for bike lanes (from City Facebook page):

https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpa1/v/t1.0-9/10492280_10152590118532312_4530030116106780255_n.j pg?oh=fe8f2caa11ec6a0a08b9e446f30ab471&oe=55526F03&__gda__=1432291349_7d710d276ebfc47b0824a2d87c59a89 8

Update from Steve


Park Avenue between Robinson Avenue and Broadway is set to close Monday. Its vehicular traffic, 4,883 cars a day, makes it just the third busiest street in the Central Business District. But the street, lined with First National Center and City Place Tower, also is one of downtown’s busiest pedestrian corridors.

Unless weather becomes a problem, the schedule calls for the work to be done by Aug. 1.

Shannon Cox, spokeswoman for Project 180, acknowledged the schedule is ambitious, but noted the contractor, Rudy Construction, has done well in completing other recent downtown projects on time.

“They have worked a lot of Saturdays and a lot of extended hours on Robert S. Kerr Avenue, Harvey and Robinson,” Cox said. “We’ve met with all of the property owners and business managers, and we’ve done coordination with retailers in the area.”

More here: Major block of Park Avenue to close Monday for four months | News OK (http://newsok.com/major-block-of-park-avenue-to-close-monday-for-four-months/article/5406554)

August 1st, ...... 2017.

Park Ave between Robinson and Broadway is closed off now.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/CAM03546_zpspzvuledz.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/CAM03546_zpspzvuledz.jpg.html)

Park and Robinson is closed. Park is closed from Broadway to Harvey.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/CAM03807_zpsxf7p7hu2.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/CAM03807_zpsxf7p7hu2.jpg.html)

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/CAM03808_zpsyyif0e6c.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/CAM03808_zpsyyif0e6c.jpg.html)

I'm afraid to ask, but how much is left until this is completed. Perhaps an easier question would be, as of today, what's the target completion date, and what's the assumed completion date?

I'm afraid to ask, but how much is left until this is completed. Perhaps an easier question would be, as of today, what's the target completion date, and what's the assumed completion date?

Assumed completion date : January 18, 2180

There is phased timing in the article at the top of the page -- the attachments.

But in reviewing those slides, I can see they've already slipped behind.

Assumed completion date : January 18, 2180

Seems fitting.


There is phased timing in the article at the top of the page -- the attachments.

But in reviewing those slides, I can see they've already slipped behind.

Yea, I checked the top but everything is from 2012, 2013, and the latest is 2014 which if I read through correctly appears to have been the original completion date. And one of the other links goes to a link that requires a subscription.

^

Those slides are from the last presentation they did on this project and the last time they updated their timelines in any public way.

And yes, was supposed to be finished in 2014 and that was they they planned on doing almost twice as much work.

I'm afraid to ask, but how much is left until this is completed. Perhaps an easier question would be, as of today, what's the target completion date, and what's the assumed completion date?

The June 2, 2015 council agenda contains the following action item.

"Locations Park Avenue between North Hudson Avenue and North Broadway Avenue
Purpose of Change Order
Change Order No. 1 revises the project start and completion dates. The revised start
date will be April 9, 2015 and the project completion date will be February 24, 2016."

Wow. End of Q1 2016.

I just hope it's worth it in the end.

Hopefully the streetcar is operational on schedule. That will revolutionize downtown.

The section of Park between Hudson and Harvey isn't even blocked off yet.

It is hard to tell in a still photo, but trust me, there is a lot of fresh watet running through that pipe. It appears that at one time Park Ave was a creek. I was happy to hear several people comment that they would have prefered to see the creek restored instead of the road fixed. I once counted 17 tributaries to the Oklahoma River that have been piped and buried in OKC.

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x378/KerryinJax/OKC%20Stuff/CAM04118_zpsyl3loahd.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/KerryinJax/media/OKC%20Stuff/CAM04118_zpsyl3loahd.jpg.html)

That appears to possibly be a sanitary sewer manhole. Green pipe is more than likely the sewer service to that building that ties in to that manhole, and if that manhole does indeed have a black epoxy lining (appears it does), that's OKC spec for sanitary manhole lining.

Edit - on second look, there is a lot of sanitary work in that picture. That's probably a camera truck that a lot of the sewer contractors in town use during their pipebursting/sliplining operations, there is some bypass pumping going on there (likely sanitary sewer) and that piece of white pipe in the upper left hand corner is profile wall PVC pipe which is being used on a lot of the new sewers downtown on Project 180.

Sorry Kerry...I don't think that's your creek.

There is definately no odor coming from like I would expect from a sanitary sewer. I would have to see a map to know for sure but I think this is the same pipe thay goes passed the steelyard and empties into the river at the Boathouse district. Gutter grates in the area say they drain straight to the river. We haven't had rain in a while which led me to believe this water is coming from a spring.

Really? I think it smells pretty bad when I walk by.

There is definately no odor coming from like I would expect from a sanitary sewer. I would have to see a map to know for sure but I think this is the same pipe thay goes passed the steelyard and empties into the river at the Boathouse district. Gutter grates in the area say they drain straight to the river. We haven't had rain in a while which led me to believe this water is coming from a spring.

where on Park is this? i think i still have the plans from this job

But if that's not a concrete pipe going in to that manhole, and inside of that manhole is black, I promise you it's a sanitary sewer

Really? I think it smells pretty bad when I walk by.

It maybe sanitary sewer then, but I didn't smell anything at lunch.

It's an ancient spring that the Indians used to call the Peepeepoopoo waters...