So, is there any organized effort to call attention to and correct the system that allowed this to happen? Or, are we limited to complaining on a message board? Who among us that are outraged is leading any effort for change? Where does one go to join an effective effort to make the changes?

It's not a catastrophe in terms of what the money is being spent on. The lying and lack of streetcar integration is a blatant managerial disaster.

So, is there any organized effort to call attention to and correct the system that allowed this to happen? Or, are we limited to complaining on a message board? Who among us that are outraged is leading any effort for change? Where does one go to join an effective effort to make the changes?

I've discussed this with Ed Shadid and plenty of City leaders read this site.

With all due respect, Ed is fairly powerless these days. Serious question Pete, are any of the leaders who are reading these complaints on P180 initiating any efforts to make changes and to expose who is responsible and making them be more forthcoming? Listening is one thing, doing is quite another.

It also got rid of a few 'one way' streets. Quite an improvement for walkability.

With all due respect, Ed is fairly powerless these days. Serious question Pete, are any of the leaders who are reading these complaints on P180 initiating any efforts to make changes and to expose who is responsible and making them be more forthcoming? Listening is one thing, doing is quite another.

These seem to be less questions than attempts to label this whole discussion as useless complaining.

I will merely point out that presenting facts to the public has plenty of value, often in ways you'll never know. Absolutely no way to know who has seen the info and what they may or may not do with it.

I'm not arguing that this is an improvement both functionally & visually, it obviously is. But you can not argue with me that the last 5+ years navigating downtown has been WAAAAAAY worse than it was prior to construction. That is 5 years of time invested, with only half of what we should have got.

I'm not saying this project shouldn't have been done, I'm only saying that this project was horribly managed. Easily the worst managed project in OKC in the last decade.

These seem to be less questions than attempts to label this whole discussion as useless complaining.

I will merely point out that presenting facts to the public has plenty of value, often in ways you'll never know. Absolutely no way to know who has seen the info and what they may or may not do with it.

I only asked the question to see if there was an active/organized effort outside this board where one could join in to effort a change.

I only asked the question to see if there was an active/organized effort outside this board where one could join in to effort a change.

The effort would be the same as any other major civic issue: Talk to your councilperson.

They are the ones that review the P180 reports.

I feel like there were also a ton of basements they didn't realize were there so having to reroute the utilities around them took more time and money. I guess my question for that was why was there not a group of people who went around and looked at plans for the buildings so they could see where basements were or at least go to the oklahoma county assessor to see the size of the floor plans.

Not Project 180, but sidewalks all over the city are part of Maps3 or the 2007 Bond package?
I'm trying to see when and if the area on Classen between 10th and 23rd is scheduled for new sidewalks and crosswalks. I've downloaded the pdf file and this area is nowhere listed, but areas along NW 164th are a higher priority and are listed.

That is so depressing Pete.

And...no one is being held to account. This is the one area Shadid was clearly in the right about. No one else at the city seems even moderately outraged by this.

Let's get this straight: We WORSHIP highly-paid city officials who screw up most of what they touch. It is what it is. We just are not a confrontational city, for better or worse, and that shows in the lack of accountability.

For all the ill will against Shadid, now that the election and streetcar are a sure thing, we should go back to appreciate his willingness to be uncouth at times and stand up to Couch.

Not Project 180, but sidewalks all over the city are part of Maps3 or the 2007 Bond package?
I'm trying to see when and if the area on Classen between 10th and 23rd is scheduled for new sidewalks and crosswalks. I've downloaded the pdf file and this area is nowhere listed, but areas along NW 164th are a higher priority and are listed.

Both. MAPS3 allotted $10 million for new sidewalks and the 07 GO Bond package allotted $50 million in unlisted projects that some of the sidewalk money has come from, if I remember correctly.

Restriping comes up before Council on Tuesday. We're on the hook for $157,650.

Restriping comes up before Council on Tuesday. We're on the hook for $157,650.Are they doing anything different this time around? It would be nice to see raised stone for the crosswalks. I would also like to see it for the lane markers, but that would likely be too expensive to do.

Restriping comes up before Council on Tuesday. We're on the hook for $157,650.

Can someone clarify why the hell the city is having to pay for restriping due to it being done poorly in the first place? Are there no contractual protections for ****ty work?

^

Yes, the contract is for $157K.

Even though the City is the one paying up front, they may be seeking the previous contractors to cover at least a portion of the cost. I hope someone on the Council will question them about this.

I would also like answers as to why this has taken years to resolve. Most the crosswalks have looked terrible since the were first done, and in some cases that was three years ago.

I just confirmed with the City that the $157K will not be covered by the previous contractors.

I believe what happened was the City provided the specs for the crosswalks and then later realized they would need to be changed.

So, this expense comes out of the P180 budget. I was reminded they do have a fair amount for contingencies.

I just confirmed with the City that the $157K will not be covered by the previous contractors.

I believe what happened was the City provided the specs for the crosswalks and then later realized they would need to be changed.

So, this expense comes out of the P180 budget. I was reminded they do have a fair amount for contingencies.

And they aren't going after any consultants to cover the cost either? I am not laying blame at all, just asking the question. I don't know how that process went, but I would have assumed that a consultant wrote the specification... could be considered an error or omission? Maybe? Consulting contract law is not my area...

I just spoke to Eric Wegner about this at length and here is what I learned:

1. The City determined there was no fault on the part of the architects, engineers or contractors.
2. The City had spec-ed the original thema-plastic paint for crosswalks, as they had used it extensively for various road painting projects; as had most other OK municipalities and ODOT.
3. Almost all the previous applications in OKC had been on asphalt; the P180 work is all concrete
4. There seemed to be some change in the therma-plastic forumla several years ago and issues started to manifest on the few concrete installations
5. The City asked the P180 contractors to re-paint the problematic P180 crosswalks, thinking it had been an installation issue.
6. When the problems persisted, they had to research further and concluded that therma-plastic paint was not appropriate for concrete surfaces
7. Faced with the option of grinding the concrete to better adhere to the paint, it was decided to go to a multi-polymer epoxy paint for the P180 concrete surfaces.
8. They have tested the new paint and thus far seems to be working well.
9. All previous P180 crosswalks will be repainted with the epoxy paint, as will all future work in P180.
10. The reason several existing crosswalks have been in poor shape for quite some time is that this entire process has taken a couple of years to sort out.
11. City Council will vote to approve this change today.

Fair enough ^^^^^.

Fair enough ^^^^^.

I don't know about that.

I just confirmed with the City that the $157K will not be covered by the previous contractors.

I believe what happened was the City provided the specs for the crosswalks and then later realized they would need to be changed.

So, this expense comes out of the P180 budget. I was reminded they do have a fair amount for contingencies.

Did they have a contingency for the contingency for the contingency?

I just confirmed with the City that the $157K will not be covered by the previous contractors.

I believe what happened was the City provided the specs for the crosswalks and then later realized they would need to be changed.

So, this expense comes out of the P180 budget. I was reminded they do have a fair amount for contingencies.

Poor staff work. I should add that the improvement project along NW 23rd between Tulsa and Meridian is welcomed, but also indicates poor work quality. The new concrete intersection at 23rd and Utah is besmirched by tar tracks everywhere. The contrasting colored concrete at the intersections is poorly stained, making the colors almost indistinguishable -- very different than what the renderings promised. I'm not sure why the city seems to be reticent to demand quality work from the contractors who are being paid by our tax dollars. Nor can I understand why or how a contractor would do sub-par work; why not take pride in doing what you do? I must be in the wrong industry because if I do bad work I get called out for it.

Really? The city took that long to figure out that the therma-style paint wasn't appropriate for concrete? They just assume it'll work for everything all the time? So the city can't do good work, the state can't do good work (Bridge cracks due to repairs, oops, we didn't know it was made of that and welding would destroy it), and contractors can't do good work. Not that it happens on every project, but it happens way too often, and I don't know how that behavior will be changed, because from when I asked the city (I believe it was OKC, not the state) if there were penalties for time/cost overruns (or bonuses for finishing early), they basically said "not really, if they get busted doing something bad while they're already on probation for doing something bad, we'll slap their hand and not let them bid the next one, but that's about it". Just sad, really sad. Is there anything the average citizen can do about this crap or are we just stuck and screwed?

The guys that did this work should come to OKC, they'd get a ton of contracts...

8219

Really? The city took that long to figure out that the therma-style paint wasn't appropriate for concrete? They just assume it'll work for everything all the time? So the city can't do good work, the state can't do good work (Bridge cracks due to repairs, oops, we didn't know it was made of that and welding would destroy it), and contractors can't do good work. Not that it happens on every project, but it happens way too often, and I don't know how that behavior will be changed, because from when I asked the city (I believe it was OKC, not the state) if there were penalties for time/cost overruns (or bonuses for finishing early), they basically said "not really, if they get busted doing something bad while they're already on probation for doing something bad, we'll slap their hand and not let them bid the next one, but that's about it". Just sad, really sad. Is there anything the average citizen can do about this crap or are we just stuck and screwed?

The guys that did this work should come to OKC, they'd get a ton of contracts...8219

Looks like he's got a contract somewhere else ?

Really? The city took that long to figure out that the therma-style paint wasn't appropriate for concrete? They just assume it'll work for everything all the time? So the city can't do good work, the state can't do good work (Bridge cracks due to repairs, oops, we didn't know it was made of that and welding would destroy it), and contractors can't do good work. Not that it happens on every project, but it happens way too often, and I don't know how that behavior will be changed, because from when I asked the city (I believe it was OKC, not the state) if there were penalties for time/cost overruns (or bonuses for finishing early), they basically said "not really, if they get busted doing something bad while they're already on probation for doing something bad, we'll slap their hand and not let them bid the next one, but that's about it". Just sad, really sad. Is there anything the average citizen can do about this crap or are we just stuck and screwed?

The guys that did this work should come to OKC, they'd get a ton of contracts...

8219

Sadly, this is too true!

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3851/14721431496_b6d75cde55_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oqTbGq)
Project 180 (https://flic.kr/p/oqTbGq) by lazio85 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2916/14741250621_cc7f793322_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/osCLet)
Project 180 (https://flic.kr/p/osCLet) by lazio85 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3848/14721417856_a06f57a95c_z.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/oqT7Df)
Project 180 (https://flic.kr/p/oqT7Df) by lazio85 (https://www.flickr.com/people//), on Flickr

From Downtown OKC's twitter page:

8988

Interesting that in front of Leadership Square they took out all the pavers and replaced with a concrete sidewalk.

Previously, the same pavers flowed throughout the atrium all the way outside and to Robinson.

IIRC, those pavers were in rough shape.

So, they called it Project 180 because that's the amount of years it will take to be done. Right?

So, they called it Project 180 because that's the amount of years it will take to be done. Right?
No, silly. 180 months.

IIRC, those pavers were in rough shape.

Just the grout.

P180 strikes again. I took this pic yesterday on the north side of Leadership Square. It's a shame that these old trees weren't saved, but I guess that's progress. Also, I saw today that Shartel Cafe (which is beneath this street, I believe) had a sign up saying that they're closed until after Labor Day.
9016

Those look like Bradford Pear trees. If so, they have likely reached the end of their normal lifespan. I hate to see them go, but it's only a matter of time until they die on their own.

P180 strikes again. I took this pic yesterday on the north side of Leadership Square. It's a shame that these old trees weren't saved, but I guess that's progress. Also, I saw today that Shartel Cafe (which is beneath this street, I believe) had a sign up saying that they're closed until after Labor Day.
9016

Big trees, but they were Bradford Pear Trees. Those things split very easily. Any 50+ winds and they splinter. The City of Norman Tree Board has banned these being planted in any new development in town. They just don't do well in Oklahoma winds. They can be groomed quite nicely to be a large round iconic looking tree. I think the new trees in Project 180 are oak or sycamore. Some of the pictures look like sweet gum trees?

Bradford Pears are an abomination. They look beautiful 2-3 weeks out of each year (and smell terrible for the blooming portion of their attractive period), and beyond that have zero redeeming value.

Unrelated to Bradford Pears but related to P180: it appears the crosswalk work is proceeding. Most of the markings along Reno have been sandblasted and the crosswalks prepped for new ones.

I had no idea those were Bradford Pears! Well, good riddance to them, then :cool:

From warreng88... Removing the faulty crosswalk striping getting ready for the new application:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180082514.jpg

Yikes, haven't worked downtown do almost 2 years now (:Smiley099) but honestly surprised P180 isn't finished. Is this the last phase?

Well, here seems to be a reason for a lot of the crappy work (crosswalks, etc.), just read this response by Jim Couch in Steve's chat (in response to a question how the bidding process works):

"We follow the Oklahoma Competitive Bidding act. The City of OKC prequalifies contractors. If you are prequalified, you are qualified to bid. We don't look at the contractors. We assume all are able to follow contracts and specifications."

Maybe they need to fix their prequalifying program, since his assumption obviously isn't true...

Seattle must be doing the same thing in their bidding process. A couple of weeks ago I walked all over the downtown area from 7th down Pike to the Market. I noticed they have the same issues with their paint coming off as we do. I also ran into a lot of 'one way' streets, which kind of surprised me.

To clarify the issues with the crosswalks, I had previously posted about speaking directly to Eric Wenger about this and he said it was the fault of the City for providing the wrong specs for the paint.

They specified the same paint they had been using on asphalt and it didn't adhere properly to the concrete being used for P180.

This is why the City (tax dollars) are being spent to correct the problem rather than holding a contractor accountable.

Seattle must be doing the same thing in their bidding process. A couple of weeks ago I walked all over the downtown area from 7th down Pike to the Market. I noticed they have the same issues with their paint coming off as we do. I also ran into a lot of 'one way' streets, which kind of surprised me.

I believe this was a new blend of paint only applied to asphalt and not previously tested with concrete. Maybe they discovered the same thing we did.

New striping is down around Reno and Walker as of yesterday; appears they are working west to east along Reno.

Robinson has re-opened (from https://twitter.com/DowntownOKCInc):

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ByoeFYLCYAAG7fP.jpg:large

Lots of the re striping has been completed in recent weeks including many of the continental crosswalks. Looking so much better. Still plenty left to do, but at the pace they are going I would expect all re striping to be completed in next several weeks.

Got a notice at Park Harvey that Harvey from Park to Robert S Kerr is about to close this week or early next week for 120 days for Project 180. The sidewalks to the dog park will stay open but this will affect a lot of street parking.

I wonder if they will close the gate that goes into the courthouse. Is there another entrance besides that one? Seems like an important thing to leave open.

I actually drove south on Robinson yesterday all the way from my office on 9th to Reno. I haven't been able to do that in the three years I have worked downtown. I am sure that will be short lived however with the other P180 projects and the streetcar construction.

lol

Project 180 taking different approach to transform downtown OKC | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com (http://www.koco.com/news/project-180-taking-different-approach-to-transform-downtown-okc/29587960)

From the Journal Record; not part of P180 but I'm putting it here anyway:



Downtown diversions: Part of Gaylord Blvd. to close for a year

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record November 14, 2014

OKLAHOMA CITY – A major downtown access route adjacent to the Chesapeake Energy Arena will be shut down for a year beginning Monday, Oklahoma City Hall announced Friday.

Private utility crews and Oklahoma Department of Transportation contractors are scheduled to work on Gaylord Boulevard between Reno Avenue and SW Fourth Street throughout 2015 to relocate utility lines and make other improvements in preparation for the new Oklahoma City Boulevard construction.

That section of Gaylord typically carries about 25,000 vehicles daily, data from the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments shows. Heading south from downtown, the road becomes Shields Boulevard, which provides access to Interstate 40. The Gaylord-Reno Boulevard intersection connects to the Bricktown entertainment district.

Westbound interstate traffic cannot exit at Gaylord/Shields, but eastbound drivers may.

Stuart Chai, director of Oklahoma City’s traffic management division, said he and his staff are working on traffic flow diversion plans to reduce overall effects. Fortunately, there are no businesses operating on those blocks, and they have little cross-traffic at intersections. The most likely rerouting options will send northbound Gaylord traffic west on SW Fourth to Robinson and Harvey avenues, while southbound Gaylord traffic will be detoured east on SW Fifth, Chai said. Fourth and Fifth are both one-way streets.

Drivers can also access downtown via the Western Avenue exit from I-40, the NW Fourth Street exit from Interstate 235 and the Harrison Street exit at I-235.

The construction is not part of Project 180, a streetscaping project that has disrupted downtown traffic for years. Instead, the Gaylord work is related to development of a new boulevard through the heart of the city where the old I-40 Crosstown used to be before the state Department of Transportation moved it closer to the Oklahoma River. Transportation Department spokesman Cole Hackett was unable to provide a breakdown of costs specific to the $80 million boulevard and nearby ramp areas.

Chai said plans for that section of Gaylord call for significant excavation – 8 or 9 feet – to allow for a bridge over the boulevard. The boulevard is expected to be completed in 2016.

From the Journal Record; not part of P180 but I'm putting it here anyway:



Downtown diversions: Part of Gaylord Blvd. to close for a year

By: Brian Brus The Journal Record November 14, 2014

OKLAHOMA CITY – A major downtown access route adjacent to the Chesapeake Energy Arena will be shut down for a year beginning Monday, Oklahoma City Hall announced Friday.

Private utility crews and Oklahoma Department of Transportation contractors are scheduled to work on Gaylord Boulevard between Reno Avenue and SW Fourth Street throughout 2015 to relocate utility lines and make other improvements in preparation for the new Oklahoma City Boulevard construction.

That section of Gaylord typically carries about 25,000 vehicles daily, data from the Association of Central Oklahoma Governments shows. Heading south from downtown, the road becomes Shields Boulevard, which provides access to Interstate 40. The Gaylord-Reno Boulevard intersection connects to the Bricktown entertainment district.

Westbound interstate traffic cannot exit at Gaylord/Shields, but eastbound drivers may.

Stuart Chai, director of Oklahoma City’s traffic management division, said he and his staff are working on traffic flow diversion plans to reduce overall effects. Fortunately, there are no businesses operating on those blocks, and they have little cross-traffic at intersections. The most likely rerouting options will send northbound Gaylord traffic west on SW Fourth to Robinson and Harvey avenues, while southbound Gaylord traffic will be detoured east on SW Fifth, Chai said. Fourth and Fifth are both one-way streets.

Drivers can also access downtown via the Western Avenue exit from I-40, the NW Fourth Street exit from Interstate 235 and the Harrison Street exit at I-235.

The construction is not part of Project 180, a streetscaping project that has disrupted downtown traffic for years. Instead, the Gaylord work is related to development of a new boulevard through the heart of the city where the old I-40 Crosstown used to be before the state Department of Transportation moved it closer to the Oklahoma River. Transportation Department spokesman Cole Hackett was unable to provide a breakdown of costs specific to the $80 million boulevard and nearby ramp areas.

Chai said plans for that section of Gaylord call for significant excavation – 8 or 9 feet – to allow for a bridge over the boulevard. The boulevard is expected to be completed in 2016.

Wow... An entire year? Traffic for Thunder games just got more interesting.

This seems to be completely out of the blue.

Especially, that it's already supposed to closed as of today.

This seems to be completely out of the blue.

Especially, that it's already supposed to closed as of today.

Agreed. I haven't heard one thing about this until your Journal Record post.

Agreed. I haven't heard one thing about this until your Journal Record post.

I saw it announced late Friday... first I'd heard of it. Maybe they spread the news amongst downtown workers earlier than that.

I saw it announced late Friday... first I'd heard of it. Maybe they spread the news amongst downtown workers earlier than that.
Our administrative assistant got an email Friday morning. That's the first we heard about it.

I saw it announced late Friday... first I'd heard of it. Maybe they spread the news amongst downtown workers earlier than that.

Friday was the first time we heard anything about this in our downtown office. It caused quite a kerfuffle amongst the staff.

"To allow for a bridge over the boulevard."

You might want to re-think your boulevard design if you've instead got a landscaped freeway where your boulevard is supposed to be.