Plans, mainly.

Any joy on those plans? Presumably the detailed information for contractors to bid on is online somewhere, right?

As horrible as u feel this City, the Government and said employees are, what keeps you from loading the Uhaul and leaving for Greener Pastures.
I don't know where you got the idea that I feel horrible about OKC. I am a native born OKCitian. After living many other cities & states during my school years, moved back home for college. The problems OKC has can be found just about any place one would decide to move. I like it here. Have never been ashamed to call OKC and Oklahoma home. Haven't always been as proud with some of our elected leadership at the local and state level, but who can say they are 100% of the time?



Have you been downtown? I just don't understand how the renderings haven't equaled reality. Were you expecting new mature trees from the start?
Now that I work closer to DT, I am there more often than I used to be. It is evident from the pictures posted in this thread, when compared to the renderings…

Here is an example from Steve of the the renderings and reality...
Project 180 Defiance by the Oklahoma City Public Works Department? | News OK (http://newsok.com/project-180-defiance-by-the-oklahoma-city-public-works-department/article/3838713)

I'm not even talking about trees, but since you brought it up, if they are going to show mature trees in the renderings, then yes, mature trees it should be. Otherwise once the trees get to the point of what is in the renderings, the state of the rest of the redo won't match (presuming that all of the elements in the rendering are present).



…I don't see poor coordination, unless you are a streetcar advocate. …
Really??? Go back and read the thread…I don't have the article handy (IIRC it was Mr. Wenger) who made the acknowledgment that in the future phases they would endeavor to avoid the coordination problems etc, of the prior work.
ON EDIT: this may be it (for brevity and copyright, some info deleted) but the full article is here…
More on Project 180 | News OK (http://newsok.com/more-on-project-180/article/3838794)

Streets were torn up early on … and then nothing for a long, long time. During such waits, businesses have suffered. Some closed their doors.
…
But throughout downtown with Project 180, we’ve seen streets torn up …. and then more often than not, we’ve seen everything shut down for weeks on end before construction resumed.
 Wenger admits this isn’t the best way to proceed. He promises staging of such projects will be done differently with the final two phases of Project 180.

And this in the Gazette:
Oklahoma Gazette News: Project 180 revised (http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-17234-more-to-build.html)

He said the city will go about construction in a different manner to avoid impeding access to businesses in the area and to make it easier for motorists to navigate downtown construction.
“We’re very confident with the budget of the project,” Wenger said. “We’re confident with the scope of the project, and we’re ready to proceed on a schedule with some changes on how we do construction that I think will be much better received in the heart of downtown.”

And let me clarify, when Project 180 was announced I was wowed by it. Very impressed. Excited to see something that would be really transformational. Then what usually happens, happened. Now, not so much.

Just as with developers that present grand designs and renderings before some review committee. They get the approval. Then as is often the case, they perform a sort of bait-n-switch and we don't get what was pitched/promised. I would venture that the cases where the end result is better than what was pitched are far fewer than the other way around.

Did a quick drive around downtown yesterday and was overwhelmed by the number of temporary stop signs sitting in what seemed like a dozen intersections. The type that are sitting in the road with sandbags holding them up.

There is STILL no traffic signal at Sheridan & Broadway! How long has that section of road been completely finished... A year??

And the jumble of roads that are finished in parts but not in others creates a big mess; several places that as you go through intersections you are in a lane heading straight through but staring directly in to the left turn lane coming the other direction; where you have to swing to the right just to stay in the correct lane.

The overall effect and impression is not good.

I know they still have a lot of work to do but rather than marvel at how the finished parts look, in many ways it just makes the rest look really bad and the whole thing is confusing.

We really need to finish the rest of this project ASAP yet I know we are at least 3 years away.

I got in contact with someone from project 180, pretty sure it was Shannon Cox, and she told me in reply that it was all about the manufacture of the light polls. My guess is that the company that makes them only has about 5 human workers putting them together. Still, that was a looooooooooooong time ago. It is pretty ridiculous.

To say this hasn't been transformational is extremely over-reaching. Now, if you had your own expectations that everything would be perfect from day 1, that's something you need to deal with.

Took this yesterday coming down Robinson.

Shows how badly the paint on the crosswalks have held up:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18081313.jpg


And before I leave town I want to count all the intersections downtown with temporary stop signs. It's absurd! Many of them in long-complete parts of the project or that have been in place for literally years.

I know there is a delay in getting the equipment from the manufacturer but they need to figure something out here. This project has been underway for what, five years? And it still takes a year to get a flipping traffic light installed?

I'm sorry but it's things like this that demonstrate that in too many ways the standards and expectations in OKC are far, far too low. Can't believe how this sort of thing continues to happen over a period of years without accountability and change.


I came across this last night... Road closed? Detour? How about a sign rather than a couple of confusing traffic cones??

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18081313b.jpg


I want to create a list of intersections and then get some answers.

Maybe the traffic light contractors are busy with the Devon LEDs :Smiley122

That photo of the fading crosswalk... good grief.

Is the contractor a second cousin of someone on the City Council? Yikes.

This is embarrasing.

Maybe the city council should contact NYC to find out what kind of paint they use. They probably have more downtown traffic in one day as opposed to 6 months in OKC. I've never seen their paint decompose...

OKC has got to get past the ingrained "half a**ed is good enough" attitude of accepting subpar work. Why on earth does the city - and its people - accept such nonsense. When will we realize we can, and should, do better?

I still think it might be possible to use contrasting color concrete inlays for permanent featurs like crosswalks. But if not, at least buy some quality paint and make the contractor apply it correctly.

This is very frustrating because I think the P180 streetscape design is very nice. We just need a competent contractor and a city staff will to hold them to standards above junk.

OKC has got to get past the ingrained "half a**ed is good enough" attitude of accepting subpar work. Why on earth does the city - and its people - accept such nonsense. When will we realize we can, and should, do better?

I still think it might be possible to use contrasting color concrete inlays for permanent featurs like crosswalks. But if not, at least buy some quality paint and make the contractor apply it correctly.

This is very frustrating because I think the P180 streetscape design is very nice. We just need a competent contractor and a city staff will to hold them to standards above junk.

Very well said, Capt.

So, what are people going to do about it? This seems as good a place as any to document the failures and organize a large presence to attend a meeting to let it be known its unacceptable...

Someone stated on here before - the subcontractor didn't prime the surface correctly and will be required to redo the paint.

As for the missing lights - in reality, why can't we just go back with permanent 4-way stops? It's been this long and few people notice now, from a traffic standpoint. No need to pay for the signals and poles...

So, what are people going to do about it? This seems as good a place as any to document the failures and organize a large presence to attend a meeting to let it be known its unacceptable...

I've been documenting for a while and do more while in town.

Then, I'm going to contact the P180 staff and ask for specific responses.

Someone stated on here before - the subcontractor didn't prime the surface correctly and will be required to redo the paint.

As for the missing lights - in reality, why can't we just go back with permanent 4-way stops? It's been this long and few people notice now, from a traffic standpoint. No need to pay for the signals and poles...

All those stop signs are propped up with sandbags and many are sitting in the right-of-way.

Plus, I'm not sure we could obtain and install stop signs any faster than traffic signals.


The thing that burns me the most is we are YEARS into this project and we still haven't figured out how to order and receive key components in an even remotely timely manner?? Each of these packages take a year or more to complete and we still don't have what we need at the end? I can't imagine any acceptable explanation, especially since this has been happening over several years and doesn't seem to be improving at all.


I hate sounding negative and contributing to that sort of energy because I love OKC so much... But this whole thing just infuriates me and is symptomatic of much bigger issues, most of which are not nearly as obvious as a street corner.


Sid and I were talking about this over beers and he said he thought the problem was the city staff is so risk adverse they won't make any move out of fear of it being the wrong jurisdiction/department, etc. And I told him that I think it's a very simple matter that people here just have never expected and demanded better. The REAL risk should be not getting it done, not fear of stepping on toes. But there isn't enough pressure coming from anywhere to force action, so the default is to do nothing or just cruise along with the "what can you do?" attitude.

This is by far the biggest issue I have with Jim Couch and his staff. They are all long-term products of this same system. I assure you that other communities would never, ever tolerate crap like this and in fact, are very proactive about standards and fixing things long before people start calling them.

Yet, half-arsery and complete do-nothingness seems to be an ingrained culture and thus, completely accepted. I really think we need to hire one or more top people from elsewhere who know and expect a different way of doing things.

And our citizens need to continue to demand better.

As for the missing lights - in reality, why can't we just go back with permanent 4-way stops? It's been this long and few people notice now, from a traffic standpoint. No need to pay for the signals and poles...

If Project 180 spending had been done right, there would be no cost issues.

The engineering firms that were hired to design this work need to be held accountable as well. They should have acted on the city's behalf and not accepted this work. If it isn't right then the contractor doesn't get paid.

And even something like the crosswalk painting... Clearly something went wrong and needs to be corrected, so GET ON IT!

That picture is the crosswalk across Robinson that leads directly to the Memorial. The P180 people were adamant that this area needed to be done first because of it's importance and high profile. Yet, that paint looks horrible there and has for a while so why aren't they getting the contractors out there to fix it?


And as a reminder, Devon gave them almost the entire TIF amount up front and they've had easy access to all that money -- can just draw on the line of credit at any time. So although they have badly mismanaged the overall budget, there is still tons of money for the work they are doing or have done.

This isn't about reduced budgets, hidden utility lines, surprise basements, or any other of their long list of excuses. This is just about not riding herd on the contractors and managing the work that has been done in any effective manner. Same thing with the bloody light poles.


I am very, very close to writing a detailed blog expose on this entire project because the reporting and updates by the city staff (specifically Eric Wenger) are obtuse, lacking of detail and constantly shifting. And of course never compared to any sort of fixed budget. They just keep changing the numbers and dates to fit what has already happened.

And as stated earlier, it calls into questions scores of other decisions that are far less public.

YEAH! What Pete said!!

I've been documenting for a while and do more while in town.

Then, I'm going to contact the P180 staff and ask for specific responses.

Oh, we know that you're going to do your part. It's amazing how much you do for OKC from afar (I don't live in-state either). But it would help if others would join in addressing this problem publicly. In addition to people like Sid and Linsey (sp?), more need to demand a better city government! Keep on keepin' on, Pete.

What Pete said (and has been saying over and over and over...)

You guys do understand how construction works, and how faults in finished results work, correct? (of course you do)

There are so many layers involved, I'd have to guess that Rudy or Sherwood (can't remember who did that phase) is locking horns with their traffic sub (probably Midstate, Action or Traffic & Lighting), who is then probably looking back to their paint supplier to find out why this happened (yes, I know it was posted that it wasn't primed, but you know how contractors work, they're probably trying to find where the supplier didn't specifically state priming instructions).

It's not what anyone wants to hear, but no contractor is just going to go back out for free and repair the work until they've exhausted every effort to see if they are indeed responsible.

All those stop signs are propped up with sandbags and many are sitting in the right-of-way.

Plus, I'm not sure we could obtain and install stop signs any faster than traffic signals.


The thing that burns me the most is we are YEARS into this project and we still haven't figured out how to order and receive key components in an even remotely timely manner?? Each of these packages take a year or more to complete and we still don't have what we need at the end? I can't imagine any acceptable explanation, especially since this has been happening over several years and doesn't seem to be improving at all.


I hate sounding negative and contributing to that sort of energy because I love OKC so much... But this whole thing just infuriates me and is symptomatic of much bigger issues, most of which are not nearly as obvious as a street corner.


Sid and I were talking about this over beers and he said he thought the problem was the city staff is so risk adverse they won't make any move out of fear of it being the wrong jurisdiction/department, etc. And I told him that I think it's a very simple matter that people here just have never expected and demanded better. The REAL risk should be not getting it done, not fear of stepping on toes. But there isn't enough pressure coming from anywhere to force action, so the default is to do nothing or just cruise along with the "what can you do?" attitude.

This is by far the biggest issue I have with Jim Couch and his staff. They are all long-term products of this same system. I assure you that other communities would never, ever tolerate crap like this and in fact, are very proactive about standards and fixing things long before people start calling them.

Yet, half-arsery and complete do-nothingness seems to be an ingrained culture and thus, completely accepted. I really think we need to hire one or more top people from elsewhere who know and expect a different way of doing things.

And our citizens need to continue to demand better.

Outstanding post. Part of this is due to a strange boosterism here. If you question the quality of a project or the standards, people will get angry at you for being "negative." Then you will hear things like, "Well, it's better than it was before when it was an empty, weed-overgrown lot. Maybe you would rather the city do nothing." Etc.

It is unfortunate, but OKC has always lagged in the beautification department.

I share your concerns with the management of this project, while I still remain a big fan of P180 in general. It's just astounding how bad some of the execution of this project has been.

You guys do understand how construction works, and how faults in finished results work, correct? (of course you do)

There are so many layers involved, I'd have to guess that Rudy or Sherwood (can't remember who did that phase) is locking horns with their traffic sub (probably Midstate, Action or Traffic & Lighting), who is then probably looking back to their paint supplier to find out why this happened (yes, I know it was posted that it wasn't primed, but you know how contractors work, they're probably trying to find where the supplier didn't specifically state priming instructions).

It's not what anyone wants to hear, but no contractor is just going to go back out for free and repair the work until they've exhausted every effort to see if they are indeed responsible.

Unacceptable. If they won't stand up for the quality of their work they should be blacklisted from ever receiving work from OKC again. In my small business, if I screwed something up (and I did, more than once) I admitted, took ownership, and fixed it. There were entire jobs I lost money on because either my own project management was poor or one of my subcontractors screwed something up.

If the company can't own up to their part of the mishap, they should be stricken from future bidding opportunities in OKC. It's that simple.

Again, I was speculating, I have no idea what's going on with getting it done.

This is another speculative idea, but I'm not sure any of the contractors who won these projects made a dime, which could be another reason why they're dragging feet. Who knows.

Again, I was speculating, I have no idea what's going on with getting it done.

This is another speculative idea, but I'm not sure any of the contractors who won these projects made a dime, which could be another reason why they're dragging feet. Who knows.

Tough. They should complete the work right or not bid on other city projects. If you owned one of these firms would you be OK with this work?

I'm not making excuses for them man, I'm just throwing stuff out there.

I wouldn't accept that kind of work at all, especially on such a high profile project, but unless we know what conversations have been had between the city and the contractors, we're just throwing things out there.

I'm not making excuses for them man, I'm just throwing stuff out there.

I wouldn't accept that kind of work at all, especially on such a high profile project, but unless we know what conversations have been had between the city and the contractors, we're just throwing things out there.

True, but the work sucks. Who cares what they're saying behind closed doors? It needs to be fixed and it isn't getting fixed fast enough.

We are still talking about the crosswalks, right?

They can't just go out and throw some cones out and slap on a fresh coat of paint. Temporary traffic plans and permits must be applied for and issued. We all know nothing works fast in government. You're right though, it should be done quicker since it's to fix an error.

all those stop signs are propped up with sandbags and many are sitting in the right-of-way.

Plus, i'm not sure we could obtain and install stop signs any faster than traffic signals.


The thing that burns me the most is we are years into this project and we still haven't figured out how to order and receive key components in an even remotely timely manner?? Each of these packages take a year or more to complete and we still don't have what we need at the end? I can't imagine any acceptable explanation, especially since this has been happening over several years and doesn't seem to be improving at all.


I hate sounding negative and contributing to that sort of energy because i love okc so much... But this whole thing just infuriates me and is symptomatic of much bigger issues, most of which are not nearly as obvious as a street corner.


Sid and i were talking about this over beers and he said he thought the problem was the city staff is so risk adverse they won't make any move out of fear of it being the wrong jurisdiction/department, etc. And i told him that i think it's a very simple matter that people here just have never expected and demanded better. The real risk should be not getting it done, not fear of stepping on toes. But there isn't enough pressure coming from anywhere to force action, so the default is to do nothing or just cruise along with the "what can you do?" attitude.

This is by far the biggest issue i have with jim couch and his staff. They are all long-term products of this same system. I assure you that other communities would never, ever tolerate crap like this and in fact, are very proactive about standards and fixing things long before people start calling them.

Yet, half-arsery and complete do-nothingness seems to be an ingrained culture and thus, completely accepted. I really think we need to hire one or more top people from elsewhere who know and expect a different way of doing things.

And our citizens need to continue to demand better.

qft

Questions about a new Project 180 project going up for bid.

Another Project 180 Job for Rudy Construction | News OK (http://newsok.com/another-project-180-job-for-rudy-construction/article/3886364)

Questions about a new Project 180 project going up for bid.

Another Project 180 Job for Rudy Construction | News OK (http://newsok.com/another-project-180-job-for-rudy-construction/article/3886364)

Does Rudy Construction not work when they're not getting paid? I know the city awards the bid to the cheapest construction company, but JUST maybe the city wasn't paying said construction company in a timely fashion. I wouldn't work for free...

Does Rudy Construction not work when they're not getting paid? I know the city awards the bid to the cheapest construction company, but JUST maybe the city wasn't paying said construction company in a timely fashion. I wouldn't work for free...

It's not that. The City always pays.

Rudy may be partially to blame, but I would imagine that other factors were at play as well. Such as the City not inspecting, counting work days, etc. Sometimes projects have more than enough work days allowed, and contractors take advantage of that.

Also, the City doesn't just award to the "cheapest." A contractor must be pre-qualified (pass financial and performance review) in order to even submit a bid. Unqualified bids are thrown out without even opening. There may be issues with pre-qualification, that's for another debate.

...Rudy may be partially to blame, but I would imagine that other factors were at play as well. Such as the City not inspecting, counting work days, etc. Sometimes projects have more than enough work days allowed, and contractors take advantage of that...
I've suggested this before in this conversation. Companies working on government projects like this are often working at a rate below what they are charging on concurrent private jobs. So, if there are too many days budgeted on the public work, it gives them an opportunity to liberally divert resources to the higher-paying private-sector job(s). It becomes an easy business decision. The public job becomes a fall-back to be worked on when less-booked. That can be rectified by a more aggressive work schedule on the public side, which can be bolstered by early-completion bonuses and late-completion penalties.

I believe the suggestion that delayed inspections, etc. could also have been to blame in previous instances. Anyone who has been involved in a commercial construction project should be able to appreciate this. Lots of pieces and trades in motion on those projects, and often one trade cannot proceed until the inspections are complete on another.

There is often more than meets the eye when a project is stalled.

I have no idea what amount of blame Rudy shares for previous slow projects; they might stink as a contractor. But it could also be that little of it was on them.

I have no idea what amount of blame Rudy shares for previous slow projects; they might stink as a contractor. But it could also be that little of it was on them.

I had a love/hate relationship with Rudy when I was a GO Bond project manager. They had friendly, knowledgeably personnel, but their equipment was second-rate. Rudy (now NOT a part of the company) liked to pull profit and not reinvest. Since I left the City, employees bought him out and started to make investments in the company. I've heard good things since then. That doesn't mean they were not guilty of what we talk about above - that's still a business decision on their part.

Before I left PW for Planning, I was really trying to make a concerted push to lower allowed Working Days, and hold contractors to their schedule. Nothing really changed while I was there.

A good chunk of this phase is going to be the 20" waterline relocation, which Rudy will subcontract to another contractor.

Rudy left a good chunk of money on the table on this project, but I think it may have been because no one likes working for Allen anymore. (only two bidders)

A good chunk of this phase is going to be the 20" waterline relocation, which Rudy will subcontract to another contractor.

Rudy left a good chunk of money on the table on this project, but I think it may have been because no one likes working for Allen anymore. (only two bidders)

Really? Is Jeff running people out? The waterline will go to Matthews, I assume. They did the work on NE 23rd Street when Rudy was prime...

Next wave of Project 180 street construction set to start | News OK (http://newsok.com/next-wave-of-project-180-street-construction-set-to-start/article/3886648)

The next phase (6A) is shown in yellow.

I really hope Leadership Square will re-do their massive front plaza that faces Robinson, as it's in terrible shape. Mark Beffort had said something about that previously.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1808213.jpg



The contract with Rudy Construction, which still must be approved by the city council, requires construction to be completed over 526 days ending April 2, 2015.

The original Project 180 reconstruction was paced on an unusually rapid schedule as city officials at the time insisted all work had to be completed in 2014 as part of an agreement with Devon Energy. The latest schedule, however, shows that Project 180 street work will continue through 2016 without any penalty.

i wish the city would just close 1 block section (or at least half block) at a time to all traffic .. for the rest of P180 .. streets would be able to get fixed much much quicker ..

also you have to wonder about the logic of doing the robinson section now ..instead of waiting for the street car project and putting in the rail at the same time

So they're redoing everything around Sandridge again?

So they're redoing everything around Sandridge again?

I think just the asphalt streets as the rest of the work (sidewalks, landscaping) has already been done. Or at least that's what I remember reading somewhere.

So they're redoing everything around Sandridge again?

SandRidge already did the sidewalks and landscaping around the perimeter of their property but the streets still have to be re-done as do the sidewalks and landscaping on the opposite sides of those streets.

also you have to wonder about the logic of doing the robinson section now ..instead of waiting for the street car project and putting in the rail at the same time

Is this something we should try to bring attention to? Or is it probably too late? They are really boxing Kitchen 324 in. Hopefully people will be willing to negotiate the mess.

They are talking about only doing one block at a time, so there looks to be 5 separate segments plus one intersection.

It will take more time but will prevent local merchants from being completely cut-off as they were in the past.

That is good to know - and a definite improvement in the process.

It is disappointing to see that they plan to not do the intersection at Robinson & Park -- one of the most important in all of downtown, until the very last package, which is at least 3 years away.

That means that they will be finishing all of Robinson in this next phase, leaving just that one intersection.

Not only for P180, but nearly every city street project, is baffling when I try to figure out the thought process behind the sequencing. I assume there is some sort of logic applied, but I haven't been able to figure it out.

Project 180 completion extended to 2016
by Brian Brus
Published: October 8th, 2013

OKLAHOMA CITY – Work on downtown Oklahoma City’s extensive streetscaping is projected to last into 2016, city officials said Tuesday.

That’s another extension beyond the early 2015 estimate that was told to The Journal Record just a few months ago, pushing the project’s length beyond seven years since it was approved.

Project 180 is a $140 million streetscape refurbishment for the entire downtown business district. Everything between buildings is being updated, including sidewalks, lighting, signage, benches and parks. The total cost of work is being funded through revenues collected from a tax increment finance district that the City Council approved in 2008.

At that time, officials warned that Project 180 would definitely disrupt life downtown for several years, although they also said attempts would be made to keep those challenges limited with regional groupings.

The final phases focus primarily on Robinson, Robert S. Kerr avenues in the heart of the district and E.K. Gaylord Boulevard near Bricktown, City Engineer Eric Wenger said. Those phases were broken in three bid packages, one of which was approved Tuesday.

Wenger said the latest packages have been adjusted to coordinate other work on the Santa Fe rail station and multimodal transportation plans. City Hall recently agreed on a route for streetcar, which voters approved as part of the MAPS 3 temporary tax issue.

Wenger said that as Project 180 has progressed, officials learned that business residents preferred a series of smaller effects. Early work led to complaints that pedestrians were unable to reach building entrances, for example. Street intersections and sidewalks will be kept open during the final stages.

“You’ll see us completing work in the summer of ’16,” he said. “So the balance of the approach is to reduce a lot of the impacts to the downtown businesses, to encourage pedestrian access during construction, taking more of a systematic approach … a few blocks at a time.”

Complete URL: http://journalrecord.com/2013/10/08/project-180-completion-extended-to-2016-generalnews/

That should overlap nicely with tearing up of new streets to incorporate the streetcar.

There seems to be a lot of optimism that the next round of projects will go smoother.

http://www.oklahoman.com/article/3893877?embargo=1

Yet another deletion from the original scope of work.


Paul also believes that the completed sidewalk, along with the city's decision not to redo the sidewalk in front of BOK Plaza to the west, will ensure pedestrians will not be blocked from accessing Kitchen No. 324.

What really troubles me about this is that the sidewalk and handicap ramp on the NW corner of Robinson and Park is a ridiculous mess that I thought was only temporary until the P180 work came along. Now, it seems it will remain untouched:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bokplazax.jpg

I think you mean Robinson and Robert S. Kerr.

And, yes, that is hideous and poorly thought-out.

I think you mean Robinson and Robert S. Kerr.

And, yes, that is hideous and poorly thought-out.

That's really gonna slow people down come the zombie invasion...smh. Poor future planning...

Can ANYONE at the city or on the P180 management or design group explain what possible constructive purpose the railing and internal curbing serves? I would love to see the design purpose description and have the designer defend it.

Looks to me like there was some type of weird curb requirement for the street, thus disallowing a normal full corner ramp/slope. However, that does not really explain the internal curb twith the rail mounted to it.

It's basically the older version of the fenced in utility covers on 2nd street @ Maywood Lofts.

It is just bizarre.

That was done immediately prior to P180 and has nothing to do with the current project. A number of intersections were hurriedly being re-done at the time to comply with federal ADA requirements. I think the City was at risk of losing some funding if intersections were not brought up to ADA standards, though there surely were better design options than these. The BNSF underpasses at Reno and Sheridan have similar messy/weird railing and internal curbing arrangements.

For any reason these were done, they are an abomination. Clearly designed by someone without a clue.

Yet another deletion from the original scope of work.

What really troubles me about this is that the sidewalk and handicap ramp on the NW corner of Robinson and Park is a ridiculous mess that I thought was only temporary until the P180 work came along. Now, it seems it will remain untouched:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/bokplazax.jpg


Can ANYONE at the city or on the P180 management or design group explain what possible constructive purpose the railing and internal curbing serves? I would love to see the design purpose description and have the designer defend it.

4733

4734

4735

The railing is the property line for BOK, and there is nothing the city can do inside of that railing. Additionally, the inside sidewalk for the railing is on top of the parking garage underneath the structure. The only advice or solution to align design aesthetics with the rest of P180 work is by narrowing Robinson and giving the city more room to put in the slanted sidewalk approach like the SW corner of the SD Commons. The concrete you see in the construction photos is the top of the Underground tunnels, and removing that is nearly impossible to deal with as we have seen in past P180 projects.