More pavers going in on Colcord:

https://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-frc1/6711_630679000282060_836189077_n.jpg

Can someone tell me why it takes months and months to get the traffic and street lights in once the streets are done? I just don't get it? Were they not ordered before the streets were finished so we're now waiting on them to arrive? The corner of Broadway and Sheridan in front of the Myriad has been done for some time, yet the temporary stop signs remain. Part of the poles are up, but no lights and no street lighting. It makes going to Thunder games at night dangerous. Same deal on Robinson. Why? Can't we just finish one job before moving on to another?

Can someone tell me why it takes months and months to get the traffic and street lights in once the streets are done? I just don't get it? Were they not ordered before the streets were finished so we're now waiting on them to arrive? The corner of Broadway and Sheridan in front of the Myriad has been done for some time, yet the temporary stop signs remain. Part of the poles are up, but no lights and no street lighting. It makes going to Thunder games at night dangerous. Same deal on Robinson. Why? Can't we just finish one job before moving on to another?

This has been happening throughout the project and in all phases, not just the street lights.

Horribly managed project in every possible way. It has taken literally years to complete some sections, often with no work being done at all for months at a time.

Raises all types of concerns about our City Manager's office being able to handle all the huge MAPS 3 projects just getting ready to start.

Well said Pete. We need to be putting pressure on the City of OKC, Mayor and City Manager to deliver.

Well said Pete. We need to be putting pressure on the City of OKC, Mayor and City Manager to deliver.

How? When? People need to start organizing if they expect better results before more major decisions/implementation are botched.

This has been happening throughout the project and in all phases, not just the street lights.

Horribly managed project in every possible way. It has taken literally years to complete some sections, often with no work being done at all for months at a time.

Raises all types of concerns about our City Manager's office being able to handle all the huge MAPS 3 projects just getting ready to start.
Brings to mind a few years back (think it was just prior to the 2007 bond issue election) when they did an audit and found several unspecified projects from 3 previous bond issues had gone undone (up to 18 years). When asked, the City manager stated they had higher priorities (the Original MAPS) and didn't have management to supervise the projects (money and employees, but no managers). But once it was brought to their attention, they would get right on it. Never saw a follow-up story to know if they were completed or not.

Brings to mind a few years back (think it was just prior to the 2007 bond issue election) when they did an audit and found several unspecified projects from 3 previous bond issues had gone undone (up to 18 years). When asked, the City manager stated they had higher priorities (the Original MAPS) and didn't have management to supervise the projects (money and employees, but no managers). But once it was brought to their attention, they would get right on it. Never saw a follow-up story to know if they were completed or not.

Audit was 2004/2005. I believe all 1989 and 1995 funds are expended, and only a little 2000 funding is left.

Cafeboef: If the funds were spent, does that mean the projects were completed?

How do I get a job in the city manager's office? I would like lots of money and zero oversight please.

How do I get a job in the city manager's office? I would like lots of money and zero oversight please.

Get LarryOKC in first and you can be his assistant manager. :cool:

Cafeboef: If the funds were spent, does that mean the projects were completed?

That is implied, yes. A GO Bond project cannot be written off as expended unless something was done that met the spirit of the language in the Bond Election language. Believe it or not, the original GO Bond Program Manager (position was created after the audit) was very good about sticking to this. The City is very lawsuit averse (generally).

That is implied, yes. A GO Bond project cannot be written off as expended unless something was done that met the spirit of the language in the Bond Election language. Believe it or not, the original GO Bond Program Manager (position was created after the audit) was very good about sticking to this. The City is very lawsuit averse (generally).

do you know who runs the bond program now?

do you know who runs the bond program now?

Yes, I do.

:)

Ahmad Lesani.

How do I get a job in the city manager's office? I would like lots of money and zero oversight please.

Mayor Cornett and Jim Couch sure have been quiet the last year or so.

That is implied, yes. A GO Bond project cannot be written off as expended unless something was done that met the spirit of the language in the Bond Election language. Believe it or not, the original GO Bond Program Manager (position was created after the audit) was very good about sticking to this. The City is very lawsuit averse (generally).
I understand that it is implied and most would come to that conclusion. i don't know if bond issues have different rules but with MAPS projects it was reported that the Council could deem a project completed without a single spade of dirt being turned. Was just wondering if the same may be true of bond issues. With language being often vague, something like "spirit of the language" could be widely open to interpretation. If a project goes over budget (the City admits that bond projects go over budget by an average of 8% and they have run out of money, do they call it done/complete?

I understand that it is implied and most would come to that conclusion. i don't know if bond issues have different rules but with MAPS projects it was reported that the Council could deem a project completed without a single spade of dirt being turned. Was just wondering if the same may be true of bond issues. With language being often vague, something like "spirit of the language" could be widely open to interpretation. If a project goes over budget (the City admits that bond projects go over budget by an average of 8% and they have run out of money, do they call it done/complete?

Some projects have run under budget, and there is also a built-in contengency and the unlisted bond funds used to off-set over runs. The GO Bond Election wording in the past has been quite specific... For instance, for streets, 2000 GOB had "widen to 4 lanes...". Can't sneak around that one.

Some projects have run under budget, and there is also a built-in contengency and the unlisted bond funds used to off-set over runs. The GO Bond Election wording in the past has been quite specific... For instance, for streets, 2000 GOB had "widen to 4 lanes...". Can't sneak around that one.
No doubt that bond issue language is often very specific, but the question remains, can the Council deem a project "completed" if it is done or not with bond issue projects? Of the projects that have run under-budget, how many had items cut to keep it within budget (to be added back in later)? Case in point, the Canal/River "extension". Reportedly, it is coming in under budget but they cut a lot of it because of budget issues. So they can, and do, "sneak around" even specific wording.

No doubt that bond issue language is often very specific, but the question remains, can the Council deem a project "completed" if it is done or not with bond issue projects? Of the projects that have run under-budget, how many had items cut to keep it within budget (to be added back in later)? Case in point, the Canal/River "extension". Reportedly, it is coming in under budget but they cut a lot of it because of budget issues. So they can, and do, "sneak around" even specific wording.

The Bond for that specific project was $3,000,000. What is the project cost now?

Council cannot deem a project done unless some funds are used and the language is fulfilled. There is a separate oversight board appointed by the Mayor/Council to oversee this, by the way.

So you are saying that different rules apply to bond issues vs.MAPS style sales tax projects? The last I heard (a few months ago) it was right at the $3 million mark but several aspects of the project had been cut for budgetary reasons with the explicit stated intent to add them back in later when another source of funding is secured.

Does anyone know why bike lanes weren't added on Reno and if there are plans for them in the future? It seems like a no-brainer to connect Film Row, Bricktown, CBD, and park/arena/etc.

Theres a map floating around here somewhere showing the dedicated and sharow bike lanes they had planned as part of Project 10. Seems like Reno was one of those corridors but maybe not. If I run across the map, I will repost it. That said, a map and plan that is now a couple of years old may have changed.

Found a map, hard to tell but it doesn't look like bike lanes (sharrow or dedicated) are part of Reno but the info prob isn't current.
http://www.okc.gov/project180/trafficdiagram.pdf

3621

Here's the illustration from the pdf. They basically totally overlooked bikeability on Reno. So anybody coming from the west to Bricktown has to take Sheridan and then risk it on Gaylord or some less fatal north south street to get to there. Also the illustration shows bike lanes proposed for Gaylord but haven't Wenger and Couch been trying to nix those?

Out of curiosity what has been the most surprising thing you've heard him say about p180 / Maps 3? Any startling confessions?

Mr. Burgess,

In regard to your question below:
Project 180 re-constructed Reno between Dewey and Gaylord. A dedicated bike lane is not included in this area. The plans required a median, two lanes of traffic in each direction, and on-street parking on both sides of the street. Reno west of Gaylord is not part of our construction.

Thank you,
Shannon [Cox]
[City of Oklahoma City]

thanks for posting that responce .. clearly she meant reno EAST of gaylord ... is not part of p180

They should widen the roadway so there is enough room for bike lanes. I'm talking about Reno from Lincoln to at least Dewey, probably Classen. Also plenty of bike racks at the cc and arena. Its probably the most important east-west street, it should have bike lanes.

They should widen the roadway so there is enough room for bike lanes. I'm talking about Reno from Lincoln to at least Dewey, probably Classen. Also plenty of bike racks at the cc and arena. Its probably the most important east-west street, it should have bike lanes.

Especially with the redundancy of the Boulevard just one block south. Hopefully, we don't end up with two big roads that are sketchy for bikes and people.

There aren't many bike racks around the convention center. I was at a conference there a few weeks ago and I had to park my bike across the street near a restaurant rather than at the convention center proper. Same problem with the Chesapeake arena. Had to chain my bike to a rail at the Convention Center because I couldn't find any handy bike racks for a Thunder game.

Can someone tell me why it takes months and months to get the traffic and street lights in once the streets are done? I just don't get it? Were they not ordered before the streets were finished so we're now waiting on them to arrive? The corner of Broadway and Sheridan in front of the Myriad has been done for some time, yet the temporary stop signs remain. Part of the poles are up, but no lights and no street lighting. It makes going to Thunder games at night dangerous. Same deal on Robinson. Why? Can't we just finish one job before moving on to another?

In an update this week given to the Economic Development Trust, Wenger didn't even mention this area (glossed over it, saying all other packages were complete) and when questioned about the lights he said they were on order but was not expecting them for "several more weeks".

That usually means months and is yet another example of terrible project management that has plagued every phase of this project.

They should widen the roadway so there is enough room for bike lanes. I'm talking about Reno from Lincoln to at least Dewey, probably Classen. Also plenty of bike racks at the cc and arena. Its probably the most important east-west street, it should have bike lanes.

Some transportation planners and engineers state that bike lanes aren't necessary on streets with speed limits less than 25 mph, because they should be able to stay in traffic. This may have played a role in why some streets in 180 received lanes and others did not.

Some transportation planners and engineers state that bike lanes aren't necessary on streets with speed limits less than 25 mph, because they should be able to stay in traffic. This may have played a role in why some streets in 180 received lanes and others did not.

That would be great if these same transportation planners and engineers made 25 mph streets that made it uncomfortable for people to drive faster than 25 mph, but they don't. They make 25 mph street capable of handling speeds in excess of 45 mph - all in the name of driver safety - which is why speeding is such an issue in the country.

That would be great if these same transportation planners and engineers made 25 mph streets that made it uncomfortable for people to drive faster than 25 mph, but they don't. They make 25 mph street capable of handling speeds in excess of 45 mph - all in the name of driver safety - which is why speeding is such an issue in the country.

:) I certainly don't agree. My personal preference, given right-of-way and such, is separated bike facilities, not lanes.

That would be great if these same transportation planners and engineers made 25 mph streets that made it uncomfortable for people to drive faster than 25 mph, but they don't. They make 25 mph street capable of handling speeds in excess of 45 mph - all in the name of driver safety - which is why speeding is such an issue in the country.

speeding is an issue because of the rushed nature of our culture .... not the design of the streets

There are several reasons you don't see more bicyclists on Reno (and certainly Gaylord).

High diesel traffic. Meaning large aggressive trucks and diesel fumes.
Lack of bike racks virtually anywhere downtown other than Spokies and the library. Maybe Native Roots.
Lack of enforcement of bike lanes/sharrows. Every time I go downtown, someone edges past me, getting within 2 feet. It gets kind of tiring resorting the the crime hotline.
I'm pretty sure the Reno speed limit is over 20 mph. Which makes it dangerous to bike there according this graphic I grabbed from this video (http://vimeo.com/22886687).

3632

You crack me up.

valid i should not speak in absolutes

the rushed nature of our culture causes speeding more than that design of the streets causes speeding

Here are some screen captures from the update provided to the Economic Development Trust this week.

Wenger swore all this would be complete within the next two weeks.

That would signal the end of packages 1-5 with 6 to start later this year and 7 (and last) sometime after that.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1801.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1802.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1803.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1804.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1805.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1806.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1807.jpg

Here is the latest schedule and map.

The McGee Center is an underground area of the Myriad Gardens, the Pedestrian Plaza is the area between Devon, Corporate and Oklahoma Towers.


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180dec12a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180apr2013.jpg

In an update this week given to the Economic Development Trust, Wenger didn't even mention this area (glossed over it, saying all other packages were complete) and when questioned about the lights he said they were on order but was not expecting them for "several more weeks".

That usually means months and is yet another example of terrible project management that has plagued every phase of this project.

How can a project be complete if it isn't done? Only in government. Maybe different lights and they really are on order/back-order, but wasn't there a case of lights along Film Row being in a warehouse someplace and just taking months to get them installed?? if it is a case of traffic signals, they can remove the "extra" ones that exist over non-existent lanes (when you have a single lane and have 3 sets of lights).

hopefully they find future money for the rest of Broadway from 4th down to cox .. Main st over to EKG and Kerr over to EKG and then maybe the rest of EKG up to 4th

this video (http://vimeo.com/22886687).


Yea this video.

This is precisely the kind of street design we need all over the metro. I see signs around the metro that say to give cyclists 3 feet. Yeah, just put up some signs, make a law and call it done. Nope. You've got to redesign the streetscape to make it more friendly to not only cysclists but pedestrians as well. Complete streets is the right idea.

Sure bicycles have the same right to the road as cars do. But when was that law written. Back when cars topped out at 25 mph and weighed 800 pounds. Now cars weigh more, are bigger and go a lot faster. Just because it's the law doesn't mean you're going to be safe riding your bike on a city street. Bicycle vs. GMC Yukon going 50 mph. You know who wins that one. Every time. I like that they had a barrier of cars between the cyclists and the auto traffic. That would feel so much safer. Cars and bicycles should be separated.

We want Oklahomans to be healthier but to be realistic, most people aren't going to go to the gym after or before work. But if you give them ways to incorporate healthy living into everyday life with not much more effort, the difference will be great. Make it so people can walk to the grocer. Or they can bike to the shoe store etc. If people are going there anyway and you give them an alternative to get there other than just car, then that makes it easier. But it's work for most people to bicycle on purpose just for health or walk just for health. Make it a fun family activity like in that video. Lots of people in that video with their kids biking to the park etc. That way it becomes incorporated into everyday life instead of something extra they have to do.

I wish me liking this video would somehow cause OKC metro leaders to make our streetscapes like what's in this video.

http://vimeo.com/22886687

That would be great if these same transportation planners and engineers made 25 mph streets that made it uncomfortable for people to drive faster than 25 mph, but they don't. They make 25 mph street capable of handling speeds in excess of 45 mph - all in the name of driver safety - which is why speeding is such an issue in the country.And money. . . ;)

A couple of new photos from P180's facebook page:

Concrete being poured at corner of Walker and Kerr.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/891901_639769706039656_759311787_o.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=639769706039656&set=a.139302192753079.25315.120793601270605)


Someone making use of the new mod style bike racks.

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/905655_640644965952130_1076602719_o.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=640644965952130&set=a.139302192753079.25315.120793601270605)

That bicycle looks like the one Julie Andrews rode in The Sound of Music.

Just FYI the graphic I posted in post #1754 is based on data from the UK Department of Transport, available here: Effects of Speed on Pedestrian Fatality Rates (http://humantransport.org/sidewalks/SpeedKills.htm) . With this info in mind, the city should begin lowering speed limits in urban settings.

Just FYI the graphic I posted in post #1754 is based on data from the UK Department of Transport, available here: Effects of Speed on Pedestrian Fatality Rates (http://humantransport.org/sidewalks/SpeedKills.htm) . With this info in mind, the city should begin lowering speed limits in urban settings.

Has OKC been having problems with pedestrian fatalities in urban settings?

Has OKC been having problems with pedestrian fatalities in urban settings?

I understand what LRO is getting at (I think), but you're right, we don't have many, if any, pedestrian fatalities in urban settings here.

Safe, pedestrian environments will bring out a lot more pedestrians.

We should have a huge number of pedestrians then with our low amounts of endangered pedestrians. LOL

I have never worried about the danger in walking when considering to go out for a stroll in OKC.

I have never worried about the danger in walking when considering to go out for a stroll in OKC.

I'd love to know where you are walking! Even short jaunts from my home on 39th street to VZDs on Western are fraught with peril. Then again I have a stroller with me. Maybe you are some sort of Parkour master who is unfazed by making quick escapes?

I'd love to know where you are walking! Even short jaunts from my home on 39th street to VZDs on Western are fraught with peril. Then again I have a stroller with me. Maybe you are some sort of Parkour master who is unfazed by making quick escapes?

I live in the Miller neighborhood walking between May and Pen with no problems.

I'd love to know where you are walking! Even short jaunts from my home on 39th street to VZDs on Western are fraught with peril. Then again I have a stroller with me. Maybe you are some sort of Parkour master who is unfazed by making quick escapes?

Fraught with peril? That sounds like something out of a Dickens novel. Is Uriah Heep lurking in the shadows on your walks? Nothing like a little melodrama.

Crossing EKG a couple times a day with three kids and most times the cross is just fine...others, cars seem to want to push you right out of the crosswalk. Nothing like watching 2k lbs of steel try to bully your 3 year old daughter. Melodramatic but true.

I think part of our problem on pushing people out of the crosswalk is for several of the recent decades we have had little to no people using crosswalks at the vast majority of intersections, it became an unconscious habit to not expect anyone would ever be there (especially for anyone who learned to drive in the suburbs), outside of downtown I am not sure if I have seen more than a handful of people use a crosswalk per year. I don't think they even mentioned stop-lines in my drivers ed course, it was not till I heard about someone getting a ticket at one that I even started paying attention to them.

I'd love to know where you are walking! Even short jaunts from my home on 39th street to VZDs on Western are fraught with peril. Then again I have a stroller with me. Maybe you are some sort of Parkour master who is unfazed by making quick escapes?

Well, I'm not quite sure what you mean by peril. LOL
I don't have a stroller with me, so I can't relate to that aspect. When I walk, it can be in various areas of downtown, Bricktown - Deep Deuce, Midtown, Plaza area. SW OKC, etc. I don't walk along the freeways. As long as I obey the walk or don't walk signs, I always feel safe.

New pics on the P180 facebook page:

Sidewalk complete on east side of Museum of Art. Paver installation to follow.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/923021_645760542107239_1029150392_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=645760542107239&set=a.139302192753079.25315.120793601270605)


Pavers installed at north west corner of Walker and Couch.
http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/73922_645759432107350_1846029269_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=645759432107350&set=a.139302192753079.25315.120793601270605)

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180apr2013.jpg[/CENTER][/QUOTE]

So they are only going to complete about 1/2 of EK Gaylord? That is for sure scrapped..
This is a really high traffic street, and I really wish they would overhaul it all.

before the rest of EKG they need to schedule .. the rest of broadway from mcgee south and the rest of Kerr and main all the way to EKG

Is it just me or does this plan seem rather stupid? Since the area around Santa Fe station will need modification to become the transit hub and accomodate the streetcar, why not convert the more northerly section of EK Gaylord to the P180 scheme? For a city that claims to be fiscally responsible, this doesn't make much sense. Or is there something I am unaware of?

Is it just me or does this plan seem rather stupid? Since the area around Santa Fe station will need modification to become the transit hub and accomodate the streetcar, why not convert the more northerly section of EK Gaylord to the P180 scheme? For a city that claims to be fiscally responsible, this doesn't make much sense. Or is there something I am unaware of?

You're not missing anything. This same argument has been raised by several other people. It's just typical OKC idiocy.

Remind where the Streetcar is supposed to go. I know it was going north to 13th, but were the north south street Robinson and Hudson? And yes, I know nothing is set in stone yet.

Is it just me or does this plan seem rather stupid? Since the area around Santa Fe station will need modification to become the transit hub and accomodate the streetcar, why not convert the more northerly section of EK Gaylord to the P180 scheme? For a city that claims to be fiscally responsible, this doesn't make much sense. Or is there something I am unaware of?

Traffic Engineers

Remind where the Streetcar is supposed to go. I know it was going north to 13th, but were the north south street Robinson and Hudson? And yes, I know nothing is set in stone yet.

There is a proposed route that goes up Braodway and Robinson and over to Midtown, and also into Bricktown. The ONE THING that is common to any proposed streetcar route is the Santa Fe station will be the transit hub and will require some modification to EK Gaylord. The lack of collaboration on major city projects between the various departments in city government is disconcerting to say the least. We have a generally well run city, but this is an obvious blunder by Public Works, P180, and possibly more city departments. (It does seem like Public Works is often the common thread in these types of situations however.)

Installing street car rails is minimal impact on existing road surfaces. But yes it does make sense to hold off on that area.