It's just something wrapped in a contractor cleanup bag, black plastic tarp, or something similar.

Naw, its one of the art exhibits.

It's called a cone. :)

Why you, I oughta....

Heh, guess I stepped into that one.
:wink:

First electric car charging station installed near Civic Center.

2832

first electric car charging station installed near civic center.

2832

nice.

Wow, I'm oddly excited about these Silva cells. Totally worth the wait IMO.

Looks like Hudson is set to go to two-way from NW 13th to Reno by Monday morning.

Hudson Avenue is converting to 2 way traffic on Monday the 17th.

One can only wonder when the same can be said for Walker Avenue downtown.

City of Oklahoma City | News from OKCGOV (http://www.okc.gov/news/2012_12/Hudson_will_convert_to_two_way_traffic_on_Monday.h tml)

The footings for the lights on Walker are going in. The lights are more ornamental. So I wouldn't be suprised if they had to order the from PELCO. The one on Hudson were reg poles they had in storage.

I don't know if it has been mentioned but I did notice walking to and from the arena on Wednesday night that the footings for the stoplights at Sheridan & Robinson are there. Shouldn't be too long before we see those go in, right?

Another question... with the conversion of Hudson, does that mean the intersection with Couch circle drive and Park is fiiiiiiiinnnnnaaaaaalllllly complete? In my book that is the worst Project 180 intersection.

There was a presentation at the last City Council meeting for Project 180 and since they didn't provide it in advance or include it in the agenda afterwards... And since they don't post any of this on their website or anywhere else, I took some screen captures from the meeting video.

Out of nowhere, they announced they received a $750K grant for a portion of EK Gaylord streetscape and will be starting soon due to time constraints that came with the money. While good news, Urban Pioneer spoke as a concerned citizen and member of the MAPS 3 Streetcar Committee, as no one at the City had mentioned this and he was very concerned about how this was going to tie in with the multi-modal transit hub at the Sante Fe station. Negotiations are well underway to acquire that property.

Also, you will see the next package will be in yellow (second image) and they have added back some basic stuff for the City Hall lawn; basically keeping most of what is there but adding some elements to tie it into the recently renovated Bicentennial Park to the west. Also said they will be fixing the fountain.

The McGee Center is a small remaining project which is below ground at the Myriad Gardens. The Pedestrian Plaza is the area between Devon Tower, Oklahoma Tower, the IRS Building and Corporate Tower.



http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180dec12a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180dec12.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180dec12b.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180dec12c.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180dec12d.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180dec12e.jpg

So the City Hall lawn will resemble what is shown in the picture you posted or that was the original plan and they're no longer doing that, but just updating a few elements?

I believe they will try to incorporate some of the elements shown on the City Hall rendering, like the banded pavers to the west of the structure.

However, they have yet to come up with a final design.

From OKC, good news:

Walker will convert to two-way traffic on Friday
As promised another downtown street, Walker, will convert from one-way to two-way traffic from Main to Robert S Kerr on Friday, December 21.

Traffic will open to one southbound lane and two northbound lanes between Main and Robert S Kerr. Northbound traffic will temporarily narrow to one lane while crews continue to work on sidewalks.

Walker from Kerr to NW 6th is expected to convert to two-way in January.

Motorists and pedestrians are advised to be cautious as they adjust to the new traffic pattern.

The conversion is a part of Project 180, launched in August 2010 to improve appearance and make downtown Oklahoma City more pedestrian friendly. Log on to Untitled Document (http://www.okc.gov/project180) for more information.

The remaining P180 timing issues ARE HUGE! As usual, I have taped audio of the Streetcar Subcommittee meeting yesterday. There were some people there filming this meeting as well who alluded to video being uploaded to Youtube for those who can't stand just listening to the audio files.

For those who know me, I try to stay professional as best I can. I enjoy, appreciate, and work hard as appointed Subcommittee member. I do not like to "badger" city staff. But so many alarm bells are going off right now.

Here is the audio excerpt about this issue. I'm sure the video being taken is even more compelling.

https://soundcloud.com/moderntransitproject-okc/dec-19-2012-streetcar

I'm in the process of listening to the audio clip but it would be helpful to all who read this site if you could summarize the points of concern.


I know Eric Wenger says in this meeting they will be hiring an engineer for EKG in January and want to start construction by fall of next year. He also says all street work is in panels, which allows them to pull up concrete in sections, so rather than destroying all the lanes for the streetcar track and utilities, it can be done lane by lane.

Obviously, completely rebuilding virtually all the streets downtown and also putting in totally new streetscape just before we put in a streetcar system seems like pretty bad timing. Why not do this all at once??

I know some things -- like the roads and sidewalks surrounding the Devon complex -- had to coincide with their construction, but why everything else had to be done BEFORE we ran the streetcars is less obvious.

The implications are not just running track... Stops have to be provided which will impact streetscape, curbs, even lane alignments.


Project 180 has been very badly managed (my opinion but one I've supported with lots of facts in this thread) and the boulevard has been handled in a shady manner, to put it politely.

Too frequently when confronted, the City Manager has given explanations and excuses that simply haven't turned out to be true.

It's time to get all these issues out on the table and start holding people accountable in a very public way.

Gosh Pete. I'm not sure how to explain all of this in bullet points. But essentially, here are the elements starting with probably the most expensive and working backwards toward where P180 timing is proposed without meaningful integration.


HIGHLY INVASIVE= May require tearing up entire lateral sections of the street all the way across sidewalk to sidewalk

Utility Relocation
Installing infrastructure that requires powering conduit (Track Switches, Streetcar Signals, Traffic Light Relocation, Lighting/Signage at Pedestrian Stops)


SIGNIFICANTLY INVASIVE= May require tearing up parallel sections of the street/typically a 14' section all the way down the street

Track Installation
Utility Duct Bank Installation


MODERATELY INVASIVE= May require tearing up entire swaths of sidewalk

Stop location ADA compliant approaches (Americans with Disabilities Act)
Stop Elevation Boarding Heights
Transformer Bays


WHAT THE P180 SCHEDULE TIMING PROVIDES FOR AS PROPOSED

Scoring Concrete for easy removal
Installing Curb Cuts for crosswalks/driveways

that's all....


So here are the questions...

1. Short of spending the $750,000 grant we got from the FEDS in some area in front of Santa-Fe we're not destined to tear up, why do we have to build P180 in areas that are likely to have streetcar?

2. Why can't we wait for the engineering and plans to be completed for streetcar so that the utilities are relocated and provisions are made for the streetcar equipment?

3. Why can't we wait for the actual rail and other equipment to arrive so that the concrete can be directly installed around it?

Obviously not doing it, costs money in with P180 itself or out of the streetcar budget. It is quite frankly, wasted tax money. Wasted in the most profoundly avoidable way.

Second, this obviously potentially forces the streetcar project to become an unnecessary burden on area business and downtown pedestrians through duplicative construction zones.

The streetcar advocates largely "stood down" on the 1st rounds of P180 because everyone was told that the City had a contractual obligation to get it done. Therefore, the first phases and their timing programming were largely respected. We questioned it in committee meetings, but when we were told this is the way it had to be, we accepted it.

In the meeting yesterday, a very weak explanation of obligations to area businesses and pedestrians was given. I'm not sure how any business or pedestrian would advocate for such if they new so much of it would be torn up twice.


City Manager Couch and MAPS 3 Manager Todd suggested they though that Jacobs would "get going" and somehow inform the P180 process in the 1st quarter of next year. Undoubtedly, simply putting the utilities in the right lane would mitigate waste exponentially.

Let's hope that Jacobs will have a great deal done and that the projects meet amicably. You know I will certainly be advocating for as much to be done as possible in the coming meetings next year.

just for a point of clarification ... we are not talking about a 5 year delay ... we are talking about a 1 year at most delay or less in the areas effected by the street car ..

...Project 180 has been very badly managed (my opinion but one I've supported with lots of facts in this thread) and the boulevard has been handled in a shady manner, to put it politely.

Too frequently when confronted, the City Manager has given explanations and excuses that simply haven't turned out to be true.

It's time to get all these issues out on the table and start holding people accountable in a very public way.
Since the City Manager is only accountable to the Council (not directly to the voters), I suppose the answer is to let your Council person know they have to hold the City Manager responsible or THEY will be held responsible when their seat comes up. We do have a few coming up for re-election soon and if I recall correctly, all have indicated they are running again. Amazingly the Council voted unanimously to not only retain Couch but he got a nice pay raise too. Don't know if the "unanimous" vote means all were present and voted for it (as long as a quorum is present, several can be missing but the vote still be unanimous).

Walker between Main & Kerr is now open to two-way traffic:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/541826_577049042311723_2068039291_n.jpg

Paver installation at Park & Hudson:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/578845_577059398977354_1885908032_n.jpg

I so hope to have to eat crow down the road, every meal for weeks even, but the more I read about 180, the less convinced I become the streetcar project will not end up like numerous other M3 items, another danged decent idea stripped down to near nada, merely enough to allow someone to say oh, we did do it, but there were these problems you see .... c'mon over to the coffee at the cc and you can hear more..

I so hope to have to eat crow down the road, every meal for weeks even, but the more I read about 180, the less convinced I become the streetcar project will not end up like numerous other M3 items, another danged decent idea stripped down to near nada, merely enough to allow someone to say oh, we did do it, but there were these problems you see .... c'mon over to the coffee at the cc and you can hear more..

Kevin - this is exactly why we need to pay attention to what Couch, Wenger, and Todd say at these meetings. Try to attend the Streetcar/Transit Subcommittee meetings if we can and we should encourage our friends to as well. As with the boulevard, we have seen the only thing that has any chance of keeping them in line is the bright sunshine of public exposure and scrutiny of what they are doing. Unfortunately, Couch manages the Council rather than being directed by them......

I so hope to have to eat crow down the road, every meal for weeks even, but the more I read about 180, the less convinced I become the streetcar project will not end up like numerous other M3 items, another danged decent idea stripped down to near nada, merely enough to allow someone to say oh, we did do it, but there were these problems you see .... c'mon over to the coffee at the cc and you can hear more..

Why do we have to start out with an elaborate system that incorporates various districts around downtown OKC. Why don't they just focus on a circulator with spurs leading off of the corners in various future directions? Then just like Portland's street car system, when they expand outward, that central circulator will be a free ride to anyone riding within the boundaries of it.

Why do we have to start out with an elaborate system that incorporates various districts around downtown OKC. Why don't they just focus on a circulator with spurs leading off of the corners in various future directions? Then just like Portland's street car system, when they expand outward, that central circulator will be a free ride to anyone riding within the boundaries of it.

Because it has to have riders from day one and also encourage TOD in less developed areas. The currently proposed route reaches residential areas and has many opportunities for further development more than a circulator in the CBD would have.

Because it has to have riders from day one and also encourage TOD in less developed areas. The currently proposed route reaches residential areas and has many opportunities for further development more than a circulator in the CBD would have.

I agree completely with that and I'm not arguing it. I'm just saying, if they're going to strip it down like everything else has so far in Maps 3 minus the Convention Center then we may as well do it right with all the bells and whistles and not the bare necessities.

Given all the setbacks and other trouble with this project, I felt this would be a good photo to share. Maybe this was a tell-tale sign.... This was taken on 9/14/11:

http://i.imgur.com/SagCR.jpg?1 (http://imgur.com/SagCR)

I know that looks stupid but since the street and sidewalk both look new in that photo, the sign might have been a route to get around sidewalk construction which made the direct route unusable. Though even in that case it still should have been adjusted/removed.

Funny thing is I bet people actually just looked at the sign and followed it. Hell, I can't say with a straight face that I wouldn't do that. :3

That's funny. Great ironic pic.

If Sheridan has been finished for so long..why have they not put up the stop lights at the Sheridan/broadway & Sheridan/Robinson intersections yet?

If Sheridan has been finished for so long..why have they not put up the stop lights at the Sheridan/broadway & Sheridan/Robinson intersections yet?

Yeah, right. The footings have been there for quite some time. Maybe the company that manufacturers the lights is on back order or it's the holidays. Who knows, but like you, I'd enjoy seeing the new lights. Hopefully they match the other ones that have been put up so far.

It sure is nice to have two way traffic on Hudson..

It is indeed nice. Also, it's weird.

It is indeed nice. Also, it's weird.

And even weirder that they didn't go ahead and wait until Walker was ready and just do it all at once.

If I remember correctly...the stop light poles for all the project 180 construction have been sitting in the old goodwill center over on the south side of the old i40. That is why I don't understand why they haven't been put up if they are just laying around over there.

It is indeed nice. Also, it's weird.

Seeing the city from new angles ;)

Article in today's DO...............See link below. The biggest issue with Project 180 is the poor planning and the lack of communication among city officials. Read below.











Project 180 restructuring moves forward with restored projects, new budget | NewsOK.com (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-project-180-moves-forward-with-restored-projects-new-budget/article/3743466)

So we are borrowing the money to pay for project 180 THREE times?

1) Borrowed money thru the regular TIF funding method.
2) The Devon loan to start Project 180 early because Devon didn't want to wait until the regular TIF financing kicked in.
3) Issuing bonds to pay off the Devon loan early?

How much is it costing/saving each time they refinance this?

So we are borrowing the money to pay for project 180 THREE times?

1) Borrowed money thru the regular TIF funding method.
2) The Devon loan to start Project 180 early because Devon didn't want to wait until the regular TIF financing kicked in.
3) Issuing bonds to pay off the Devon loan early?

How much is it costing/saving each time they refinance this?

This isn't borrowing 3 times. Devon was going to pay TIF over a number of years. They advanced the money so the work could be done now and enjoyed over the time period. This was done as an advance/loan to the city on very favorable terms. Now, with interest rates at an all time low, the city can issue low interest bonds to repay Devon and pay these bonds over the time that they would collect the revenue. This is just smart money management it appears. Everything isn't sinister.

Rover: Devon is still paying the TIF over several years..they did not "prepay" their taxes as some have claimed (they actually have a several year exemption from paying the taxes). And yes they loaned the City the money to get it done by the time the Tower was complete instead of waiting several years after completion when the TIF kicks in. Now the City is issuing bonds to pay off the Devon loan early. That makes the City borrowing the money to do this 3 times. I didn't say it was sinister, just doesn't appear to be smart money management on the surface. Unless the amount of interest paid in this new set of bonds is lower than the interest Devon was charging in their loan.

Devon loaned a bunch of the money to OKC upfront, with interest (they do have shareholders, after all).

OKC has been paying them interest the whole time but also has to repay the $75 million. Since the TIF money will come in over 25 years and they've already drawn most of the $75 million, they went out and refinanced the money Devon loaned them so they could settle with them and get the best possible rate.

At the same time, bond money is being used for this project.

Rover: Devon is still paying the TIF over several years..they did not "prepay" their taxes as some have claimed (they actually have a several year exemption from paying the taxes). And yes they loaned the City the money to get it done by the time the Tower was complete instead of waiting several years after completion when the TIF kicks in. Now the City is issuing bonds to pay off the Devon loan early. That makes the City borrowing the money to do this 3 times. I didn't say it was sinister, just doesn't appear to be smart money management on the surface. Unless the amount of interest paid in this new set of bonds is lower than the interest Devon was charging in their loan.

Devon LOANED the money against future taxes they would pay. That loan gets REPLACED with better financing that included additional revenue for repayment for a revised scope of projects, and taking into account a revision in expected TIF income. That isn't THREE loans and there never have been three loans. There is one loan/bond collateralized by TIF payments. There isn't but one loan outstanding at any time and it is secured with an identified and assured income stream. This is very good money management if the terms are increasingly favorable and allows more investment. My understanding is that this allows P180 to be more fully completed and paid off quicker.

Specifically, why do you think it is bad money management?

Sooooooooo.....the next bit of work we'll see from 180 is..Park Avenue? How far down the road are they looking at doing Main St. between Broadway & Robinson or Broadway between E.K. Gaylord and Sheridan?

Don't worry, I sent an email to a Shannon Cox via Project 180's okc.gov page.

Here's a summary for those of you who are wondering of a schedule...

Main Street (Package 6) between Robinson & Broadway is the next project to kick start and will begin this Summer. Broadway (Package 7) between EK and Sheridan is to begin this Winter. Neither of these projects have gone out to bid so there are no exact dates for start time, just the time frame that they are aiming for. So until summertime, the only work we're going to see is that which is currently going on around City Hall.

Walker is fully open two way with bike lanes and its FREAKING Awesome!

Stop signs on cans for a minute. I guess the lights go up this week.

Stop signs at Sheridan and Robinson for months...don't count on this week!

Pavers going in on Robinson and Main.

They really need to finish this segment up... It's been under construction for forever.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/317994_588987724451188_2110514582_n.jpg

This is area in front of our building and there is a backstory on some of delay.
Early on, the construction crew broke off one of the sprinkler heads, all the way down to the pipe. Water, of course, spewed everywhere but rather than fix it, our building maint. guy agreed to turn off water so they could work on other parts. That was over a year ago and is one of the last things to do. According to our guy, it's happening this week. Hopefully, we'll have a finished sidewalk we can walk down by early February!

The stop lights we're waiting to see..at key intersections like Sheridan & Robinson...should be installed in the next couple of months.

According to Leslie of Leslie's OKC | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LesliesOkc), these ground plates are being installed at various places around downtown as part of Project 180.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/321414_335929833188094_2062577141_n.png?dl=1 (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=335929833188094&set=a.248490341932044.54821.232836546830757)

This one is in front of the OKC Museum of Art.

"Oklahoma City - A Land Run City"

It's fun to scan the thing and identify the landmarks. The tracks dividing CBD and Bricktown is easy to see at the top, with EKG running right next to it. The Cox CC and Chesapeake Arena to the right, and the Myriad Gardens below. It's quite up-to-date as the lawn in front of the Civic Center shows the new parallel curve landscaping. Legacy-at-Arts to the left, and the City Hall above next to the semi-circular Couch Drive. And then next to the Museum is a little circle, presumably denoting a "You Are Here" marker.

Pretty cool. Has anybody spotted any others of these plates around downtown?

Pretty sweet, haven't noticed any yet.

That is a nice touch, and will also help you navigate if you are not familiar with the CBD.

According to Leslie of Leslie's OKC | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/LesliesOkc), these ground plates are being installed at various places around downtown as part of Project 180.

This one is in front of the OKC Museum of Art.

"Oklahoma City - A Land Run City"

It's fun to scan the thing and identify the landmarks. The tracks dividing CBD and Bricktown is easy to see at the top, with EKG running right next to it. The Cox CC and Chesapeake Arena to the right, and the Myriad Gardens below. It's quite up-to-date as the lawn in front of the Civic Center shows the new parallel curve landscaping. Legacy-at-Arts to the left, and the City Hall above next to the semi-circular Couch Drive. And then next to the Museum is a little circle, presumably denoting a "You Are Here" marker.

Pretty cool. Has anybody spotted any others of these plates around downtown?

They're all over downtown in any of the Project 180 areas. There was a post on here a while back about the manhole covers. The silver pin in the cover shows you where you are in the city. Pretty dandy little thing to have.

Nevermind, it wasn't on here. It was on their Facebook page back on October 24th...

Wow.. I could immediately spot the myriad gardens on that ground plate. The detail is amazing!

Wow.. I could immediately spot the myriad gardens on that ground plate. The detail is amazing!

What would be really cool is if it was in 3D relief, to scale. Of course, then everyone would be tripping over Devon Tower and suing for broken ankles.

What would be really cool is if it was in 3D relief, to scale. Of course, then everyone would be tripping over Devon Tower and suing for broken ankles.

I was gonna say the devon tower would just chip off when someone kicked it, but then I remembered manhole covers are cast iron... Ouch. :)

Correct me if I am wrong, but these aren't actual manholes, but just medalions implanted at random locations?

Correct me if I am wrong, but these aren't actual manholes, but just medalions implanted at random locations?

correct

That is a nice touch, and will also help you navigate if you are not familiar with the CBD.

But probably not much considering if you're not familiar with CBD, small vague shapes won't mean a whole lot to you.