The "wave pool" or the "rock garden"? I was told by an employee that one of the problems they are having at the Northeast fountain is that there is soo much rock surface - and shallow water - that the algae grows very fast in Oklahoma City's warm Summers.

I took my parents to the gardens Labor Day weekend. I definitely noticed a weird odor emitting from that fountain.

I agree with soonerguru that fountain is a bit overdone. Everything in the gardens is sleek and modern and this just sticks out like a sore thumb.

Cool photo. I took the same shot from the City Place penthouse during the Downtown OKC living tour. The more I look at the park, the more I like the design. Just need to dedicate the effort and funding to nurture the trees and other plantings through our temperature and precipitation extremes.

Plans for Bicentennial and City Hall Parks:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityhall1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityhall2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityhall3.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityhall4.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityhall5.jpg
Are they still going to redo the area infront of city hall? And are they going to put up those pole things in bicential park? I haven't seen the park recently sooo

Are they still going to redo the area infront of city hall? And are they going to put up those pole things in bicential park? I haven't seen the park recently sooo

I'm fairly certain they dropped the spinner poles after a good deal of outrage. As for the area in front of City Hall, I don't know. I sure hope they are.

Spinner poles were dropped

Awesome, I didn't like them. Quick question, I know we have the devon ice rink in the gardens now, but is it possible they might actually do one there too? Because I loved skating their as a kid, and it seems like they could do so much with what they have.

I believe the plan is to stick with the one rink at the Myriad Gardens.

Also, the park in front of City Hall was one of the many cuts from Project 180. Like 40% of the promised streets, this now falls into the "future work" category with no funds currently available.

Also, the park in front of City Hall was one of the many cuts from Project 180. Like 40% of the promised streets, this now falls into the "future work" category with no funds currently available.

Wow, that really sucks...

The only reason Bicentennial Park even happened was that Larry Nichols made a private contribution.

The only reason Bicentennial Park even happened was that Larry Nichols made a private contribution.

Dadgum it. There Larry goes agin trying to control the city. Who does he think he is making that kind of donation?

Dadgum it. There Larry goes agin trying to control the city. Who does he think he is making that kind of donation?

Larry Nichols name = Rover post praising Larry Nichols. Every time.

Larry Nichols name = Rover post praising Larry Nichols. Every time.

'Cause Rover understands power.

Larry Nichols name = Rover post praising Larry Nichols. Every time.

HAHA, I like Rover's contributions, but you're spot on with this.

Why would the park in front of City Hall not taken precedence over Bicentennial Park, I wonder?

There was an urgency to get the park in front of the Civic Center completed for its 75 anniversary event.

HAHA, I like Rover's contributions, but you're spot on with this.

The remark was not a real commentary on LN, but rather a poke at all those on this board who resent the influence of some of the benefactors of this city. It goes back to a number of earlier posts in this thread. Oh, never mind...if it needs explaining then it wasn't funny. It was just a light jab at certain posters, not a promotion of Larry. I defend and promote EVERYONE who contributes in time, money, and leadership for the benefit of urbanizing and promoting our downtown, and city in general, no matter how large or small their contribution....even if I don't always agree with their ideology.

HAHA, I like Rover's contributions, but you're spot on with this.

Rover was referencing posts like this one:

http://www.okctalk.com/other-urban-development/24938-nicholas-preftakes-update-23.html#post513321

And for those who don't feel like clicking the link, it says:

"I am personally becoming convinced that there is actually some sort of collusion between Devon and the City to succeed in running these poor folks out of business, as that will only make it easier to bring out the wrecking ball when it comes time for that. Perhaps, after all, that is the "agreement" that Jim Couch keeps referring to (but refusing to show) between Devon and City Hall. And what I can't believe even further is that nobody else is outraged about the wholesale historic demolition that downtown has now truly descended into.

All in the name of progress! Ha."

I picked up on the sarcasm Rover. :)

Thanks. Sometimes I am not as clever as I think I am...or people just don't appreciate it much.

Finally, after over 14 months of a torn up sidewalk in front of IRS building, we were told the City plans to tear out the rest of of the sidewalk and re-do it from just south of Main Street to the drive between IRS and Colcord. This part of the project will take at least 4 weeks and includes replacing the bollards destroyed when the city tore up part of that walk.
Four weeks?? Not sure if that means another "two guys and a wheelbarrow" or just the "spend two hours a day" method. All access will be through the west side of building.
SMH - the inefficiency continues to astound and amaze me.

4 weeks for that much work seems like the correct amount of time

Thanks. Sometimes I am not as clever as I think I am...or people just don't appreciate it much.

I'm not sure how ProV1x made the jump that I didn't get your sarcasm, but that's what assuming gets you. I absolutely did and thought it was hilarious. I actually really like your contributions and am in agreement with you on most of what you say. But Larry's comment was pretty funny too, because it does seem like if there's a comment about Larry Nichols, I would bet that a post from you is not far off. But, and not surprisingly, I absolutely agree that it's insane how resentful some of the posters on this board become. Anyway, I found both you and Larry humorous. Didn't mean to offend.

If it seems like I defend Larry too much, it may be that we need more "controlling", "intrusive" big time benefactors who contribute to downtown and therefore who get more of the criticism. I would love to have a dozen downtown activist elitists to defend. People who bring billions of dollars to capital improvements and employ thousands downtown are important. Should they be given free reign, absolutely not. But they sure can make things happen when you work with them and get them on your side.

We can gripe about P180, but I would argue that downtown is already better for it and better we started this now than in 10 years. A proper and attractive infrastructure will lure more investments and more jobs downtown. Having crappy, ill planned, unkempt, and dingy infrastructure sets the wrong precedent. Without key people stepping up and demanding better and putting their money where their mouths are, we would have a lot longer journey to a sustainable urban environment.

If it seems like I defend Larry too much, it may be that we need more "controlling", "intrusive" big time benefactors who contribute to downtown and therefore who get more of the criticism. I would love to have a dozen downtown activist elitists to defend. People who bring billions of dollars to capital improvements and employ thousands downtown are important. Should they be given free reign, absolutely not. But they sure can make things happen when you work with them and get them on your side.

We can gripe about P180, but I would argue that downtown is already better for it and better we started this now than in 10 years. A proper and attractive infrastructure will lure more investments and more jobs downtown. Having crappy, ill planned, unkempt, and dingy infrastructure sets the wrong precedent. Without key people stepping up and demanding better and putting their money where their mouths are, we would have a lot longer journey to a sustainable urban environment.

I'm right there with you. I'd love to see more Larry Nichols type benefactors, gracious people with the backing to make a difference. OKC would benefit greatly from more like him.

Yep, even though there are certainly aspects that are disappointing, downtown has already improved greatly from what has been done and if they can continue to work on the rest, things are only going to get better.

If it seems like I defend Larry too much, it may be that we need more "controlling", "intrusive" big time benefactors who contribute to downtown and therefore who get more of the criticism. I would love to have a dozen downtown activist elitists to defend. People who bring billions of dollars to capital improvements and employ thousands downtown are important. Should they be given free reign, absolutely not. But they sure can make things happen when you work with them and get them on your side.

We can gripe about P180, but I would argue that downtown is already better for it and better we started this now than in 10 years. A proper and attractive infrastructure will lure more investments and more jobs downtown. Having crappy, ill planned, unkempt, and dingy infrastructure sets the wrong precedent. Without key people stepping up and demanding better and putting their money where their mouths are, we would have a lot longer journey to a sustainable urban environment.

This is post is exactly what I was referring to. Who are you arguing with? At least 95% of comments about Larry Nichols are positive, but you feel the need to constantly go off on the topic - whether seriously or sarcastically. When there are legitimate discussions about the influence of business leaders you don't have to freak out in support of them every single time. Just make your points, but don't be so defensive about it all. Goodness.

This is post is exactly what I was referring to. Who are you arguing with? At least 95% of comments about Larry Nichols are positive, but you feel the need to constantly go off on the topic - whether seriously or sarcastically. When there are legitimate discussions about the influence of business leaders you don't have to freak out in support of them every single time. Just make your points, but don't be so defensive about it all. Goodness.

Sorry your time was wasted reading something positive . Glad you got to scold me though. Always glad when someone makes an effort to get me back on track. Hope the next posts meet with your approval.

Sorry your time was wasted reading something positive . Glad you got to scold me though. Always glad when someone makes an effort to get me back on track. Hope the next posts meet with your approval.

Sure you two aren't married....? sounds like myself and the Mrs. lol

No. We aren't married. We are sisters.

No. We aren't married. We are sisters.

This reminds me of the scene in "Forrest Gump" where Lt Dan asked if Forrest and Bubba were related. (Possibly my favorite movie of all time.) :D

Finally, after over 14 months of a torn up sidewalk in front of IRS building, we were told the City plans to tear out the rest of of the sidewalk and re-do it from just south of Main Street to the drive between IRS and Colcord. This part of the project will take at least 4 weeks and includes replacing the bollards destroyed when the city tore up part of that walk.
Four weeks?? Not sure if that means another "two guys and a wheelbarrow" or just the "spend two hours a day" method. All access will be through the west side of building.
SMH - the inefficiency continues to astound and amaze me.
Probably not going to garner much support for IRS employees. 4 weeks sounds about right for the government.

...We can gripe about P180, but I would argue that downtown is already better for it and better we started this now than in 10 years. A proper and attractive infrastructure will lure more investments and more jobs downtown. Having crappy, ill planned, unkempt, and dingy infrastructure sets the wrong precedent. Without key people stepping up and demanding better and putting their money where their mouths are, we would have a lot longer journey to a sustainable urban environment.

I agree. And what was presented in the renderings did exactly that. The intent was good. Implementation mixed to bad. Unfortunately a lot of it fell to the wayside (much less those parts that aren't even going to be done in the foreseeable future). The end result is marginally better than it was before. Considering the time & expense, the exasperation to traffic, businesses being left in the lurch for months at a time, not sure if it was worth it overall. IMO

You may be right, but I think in a year from now when we compare before and after pictures we might be less angry. Not saying this was preformed well, but the downtown areas where the streets, sidewalks, signage, lighting, etc. have been redone look much, much better (for the most part - still not sold on the rocks in front of the Colcord though). I think film row has been transformed. The areas around Myriad Garden look clean, modern and well kept. The park at the Civic Center is nice and fresh and positioned for years going forward. Have we done enough...no. Have we done it efficiently?..doesn't appear so. Did it create pain?...Yes. But it isn't necessarily a failure yet either.

Rover: A lot of what I am basing it on is pics that have been posted here. I haven't been all over DT but the places I have been (and I was looking for the changes), I didn't really notice that much of a difference (there are some notable exceptions)...better, yes, but not worth the time & expense doing it. Lofty goals and ideas and renderings presented to the public but poor implementation for the most part.

Rover: A lot of what I am basing it on is pics that have been posted here. I haven't been all over DT but the places I have been (and I was looking for the changes), I didn't really notice that much of a difference (there are some notable exceptions)...better, yes, but not worth the time & expense doing it. Lofty goals and ideas and renderings presented to the public but poor implementation for the most part.

Seriously, the changes/improvements are very evident.

Probably not going to garner much support for IRS employees. 4 weeks sounds about right for the government.

IRS employees not particularly expecting your support - despite the fact that what we do funds 93% of federal government. {It's a job, and a thankless one; particularly since most civilians don't understand how laws drive IRS mission. /rant}

Pity, perhaps, the poor taxpayer who has to schlep records 3-4 blocks away, then try to figure out how to get into building and where to go from there. Plus, IRS not only agency in building. 3 other federal agencies plus one private insurance company also in the house.Considering the track record of P180, 4 weeks to completion will surprise the heck out of most of us.

Bicentenial Park fountain is done

2743

The only reason Bicentennial Park even happened was that Larry Nichols made a private contribution.

I had no idea about this...now I understand naming the park, although I still don't think that would have been an appropriate move. It's still a pretty impressive gift for Nichols...too bad the design isn't as great as it could have been. I liked the spinner towers too, but just because they were a nice vertical visual element that helped build a cool viewshed. Perhaps they could have been replaced by some other metallic public art.

I also don't understand why Nichols draws so much ire from many people on here. He's not a bad godfather, and he loves downtown. If not him, someone else..that's the kind of town OKC is.

The reason I was against the spinners was that public spaces need to transcend the private businesses that partly fund them. In other words public places shouldn't be defined by the rich and powerful but by the public. The average OKC person doesn't work in the oil and gas industry so the public spaces shouldn't be defined by oil and gas. If OKC wants to be a magnet for talent and first class city, oil and gas has to be more tactful about its influence. We all want a healthy economy but sometimes the propaganda from this industry gets old, that's all I'm saying. And no I'm not blaming the spinners on Devon, they were just a bad idea.

I also don't understand why Nichols draws so much ire from many people on here. He's not a bad godfather, and he loves downtown. If not him, someone else..that's the kind of town OKC is.

I think we need to stop dragging up this point as at best the opinion was held by a few and even they seem to have forgiven and forgotten.

After all, it was everyone's hero Ed Shadid who publicly questioned the wisdom of a plutocracy, even a benevolent one. He was directly referencing Nichols and brought forth an important awareness and dialog.

Since that time it seems everyone has a better understanding of where Nichols in particular is coming from and apart from using his power and influence to push up the convention center in order of priority, there has been barely a peep of criticism. And frankly, criticism over that issue may prove to be completely justified.


So, let's please quit dredging up this people-are-too-critical-of-Nichols straw man. Apart from a microscopic percentage, anyone educated on downtown OKC recognizes and appreciates what he's done.

Seriously, the changes/improvements are very evident.

Please give specific examples where changes matched or exceeded what was presented to the public. Then there is the matter of the 40% or so that the owner of this site has detailed as not being done? No change, no improvement.

I was at the Civic Center tonight and was interested to note that the park was used much more tonight than before the remodel. The curved walkways, the lighting and the openness funneled people almost immediately from the street, into the central part of the park and into the CC, and the opposite when the play was over. It was nice to see many people in the park and the way it invited people into it.

The reason I was against the spinners was that public spaces need to transcend the private businesses that partly fund them. In other words public places shouldn't be defined by the rich and powerful but by the public. The average OKC person doesn't work in the oil and gas industry so the public spaces shouldn't be defined by oil and gas. If OKC wants to be a magnet for talent and first class city, oil and gas has to be more tactful about its influence. We all want a healthy economy but sometimes the propaganda from this industry gets old, that's all I'm saying. And no I'm not blaming the spinners on Devon, they were just a bad idea.

What do spinners have to do with oil and gas? You've spun the issue..lol

I think we need to stop dragging up this point as at best the opinion was held by a few and even they seem to have forgiven and forgotten.

After all, it was everyone's hero Ed Shadid who publicly questioned the wisdom of a plutocracy, even a benevolent one. He was directly referencing Nichols and brought forth an important awareness and dialog.

Since that time it seems everyone has a better understanding of where Nichols in particular is coming from and apart from using his power and influence to push up the convention center in order of priority, there has been barely a peep of criticism. And frankly, criticism over that issue may prove to be completely justified.


So, let's please quit dredging up this people-are-too-critical-of-Nichols straw man. Apart from a microscopic percentage, anyone educated on downtown OKC recognizes and appreciates what he's done.

Agreed.

And Ed Shadid is my hero.

OKCMOA has put up some recent photos of P180 work done on the sidewalks by the museum:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/548676_10152145400530147_1530392658_n.jpg

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/208055_10152145400760147_1662870324_n.jpg

These were evidently taken last Thursday (Oct. 11)

source: Today's progress on the sidewalks | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/media/set/?set=a.10152145400400147.912348.59862915146)

I work downtown, and I must say, the completed portions look great. The city doesn't look rundown anymore.

I work downtown, and I must say, the completed portions look great. The city doesn't look rundown anymore.

Rundown? Have you ever been to the east coast?

Rundown? Have you ever been to the east coast?

Lived there three years.

Everyone sit down...I'm going to say something nice about Project 180! :)

I contacted Shannon Cox from OKC about my concerns for lighting and a wheelchair ramp as the city tears out and replaces the sidewalk in front of the 55 N Robinson building. Shannon responded promptly, addressed all of my concerns and, within a day, we had a brand new street light near the northeast corner of our building (actually at southeast corner of Corporate Tower).
They are still working on getting ramp lined up with sidewalk and have delayed the project until it's right.
Kudos to Shannon for her responsiveness!

Can someone answer the question if the Walker Ave, 2 way conversion will be completed or did it get cut with the budget constraints? (or maybe it was never meant to be fully converted as 2way?)
Right now it is 2way, 1way, 2way. The one way is the section between RS Kerr and 6th street.

It is supposed to be converted to all 2-way.

Steve Lackmeyer did a series of articles about this and held the City's feet to the fire until the agreed to find a way to get it done.

Not sure about the current hold-up.

Thanks.

I do remember Steve calling out the city on this and doing a nice job with his writing, but couldn't remember the final decision.

It is supposed to be converted to all 2-way.

Steve Lackmeyer did a series of articles about this and held the City's feet to the fire until the agreed to find a way to get it done.

Not sure about the current hold-up.

by December is what we were told i believe

http://www.deeproot.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/stories/2012/10/OKC-2.jpg

Updated Project 180 Photos: Silva Cells in Oklahoma City | DeepRoot Blog (http://www.deeproot.com/blog/blog-entries/updated-project-180-photos-silva-cells-in-oklahoma-city-ok)


Silva Cells? These are explained in this neat little video:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRSly23B01c

Now this explains some of the reasons it has taken forever to do P180.

Looks like it's well worth it though.

Very interesting and definitely worthwhile if it yields larger, healthier trees. I wonder if P180 considered the likely streetcar route in the Silva Cell arrangement?

OKCMOA has posted a few more pics of the sidewalk work in front of the museum:

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/66153_10152159578095147_1369355606_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152159578095147&set=a.10152159577660147.914507.59862915146)

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/315521_10152159577900147_2090670881_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152159577900147&set=a.10152159577660147.914507.59862915146)

These are from last Wednesday (Oct. 17)

Looks like it's coming along.

Now that I know about the Silva cell construction, I'm noticing that same layout pattern for the sidewalks in other P180 photos, like these from Project 180's facebook page:

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/557176_534648863218408_484525785_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=534648863218408&set=a.139302192753079.25315.120793601270605)

http://sphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/282039_533981466618481_2069306233_n.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=533981466618481&set=a.533980636618564.142323.120793601270605)

They're about to finish the section in front of the Museum lobby.

http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/56194_10152176970825147_1293844737_o.jpg (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10152176970825147&set=a.188144780146.246095.59862915146)

But what the heck is that big... whatever-it-is, next to the shovel?

from the OKCMOA facebook page (http://www.facebook.com/OKCMOA)

That's part of the flying saucer remains from the Roswell Incident.

That's part of the flying saucer remains from the Roswell Incident.

yikes :eek:

It's called a cone. :)