Not really, unless you have the agility of a mountain goat. The rocks, IMHO, are fugly and detract from the overall look of downtown. Trees and grass in median were more attractive and safer for pedestrians. And yes, I know it's jaywalking, but people will cross in middle of street to get from 55 N. Robinson to Century Center parking garage.
It will be interesting to see what happens when sidewalks are completed. Right now, crossing in the middle between Colcord and 55 is about the only way to get there unless you want to walk way out of the way. Most people don't - especially if carrying tax records or other documents.
Epic fail on completion of Robinson.

So you feel the City should place sidewalks or landscaping items based on the actions of lazy people.

I'm sure those boulders were specifically placed to discourage the frequent jaywalking in that area.

Not really, unless you have the agility of a mountain goat. The rocks, IMHO, are fugly and detract from the overall look of downtown. Trees and grass in median were more attractive and safer for pedestrians. And yes, I know it's jaywalking, but people will cross in middle of street to get from 55 N. Robinson to Century Center parking garage.
It will be interesting to see what happens when sidewalks are completed. Right now, crossing in the middle between Colcord and 55 is about the only way to get there unless you want to walk way out of the way. Most people don't - especially if carrying tax records or other documents.
Epic fail on completion of Robinson.

Well, the real solution is to install a dedicated mid-block pedestrian crossing. Instead of trying to subvert established pedestrian behavior in favor of destructive motorist behavior, why not try and accommodate both within the same ROW??

However, I might also add that I have seen several P180 plans that incorporated a similar kind of rock feature in medians, however it was different..to me it looked like a granite depiction of the Devon logo (with the inter-lapped bars). Granite is a positive visual identifier of many other new streetscape elements, which would have made a LOT more sense than the boulders. Or (gasp) faux boulders?

All in all, either way you slice it, a very odd streetscape element no matter what.

So you feel the City should place sidewalks or landscaping items based on the actions of lazy people.

Lazy people; the walkers or the people driving in cars? If this is a high jaywalking area then do what Spartan suggested - a mid-block crosswalk.

On the other hand, these boulders appear to align with the new Colcord drop-off area. If so, then pedestrians should stay out of that area anyhow.

Instead of attributing pejorative qualities to certain modes of transit (in this case, walking), why don't we just accommodate them all safely and reasonably?

Besides, walking would hardly be the "lazy" mode of transit....

[temp off topic]rcjunkie - nice to see your empathy has kicked into high gear. Sure hope you don't have to use a cane, wheelchair or walker anytime soon. Even an extra 100 yards can be torture to a person with MS or RA. Karma can be a real bee-atch.[/tot]

The original briefing given to us stated we'd have a mid-block crossing.
I wouldn't even mind a corner crossing if we had a sidewalk rather than a hole to use. There is no sidewalk on the east side of Robinson from Main to Sheridan, except for a tiny area mid-block near entrance to Century Center.
The total lack of ADA compliance aside - the so-called rock is ugly. It does not enhance anything around it - it looks out of place and cheap.

And Spartan - thanks!

I wish they would move the Draper statue to the OHS building, to show that his suburbanist ideology is a thing of the past.

[temp off topic]rcjunkie - nice to see your empathy has kicked into high gear. Sure hope you don't have to use a cane, wheelchair or walker anytime soon. Even an extra 100 yards can be torture to a person with MS or RA. Karma can be a real bee-atch.[/tot]

The original briefing given to us stated we'd have a mid-block crossing.
I wouldn't even mind a corner crossing if we had a sidewalk rather than a hole to use. There is no sidewalk on the east side of Robinson from Main to Sheridan, except for a tiny area mid-block near entrance to Century Center.
The total lack of ADA compliance aside - the so-called rock is ugly. It does not enhance anything around it - it looks out of place and cheap.

And Spartan - thanks!

Not a problem. My oldest daughter has been confined to a wheel chair for almost 20 years, and I promise her views mirror mine.

I'm sorry, but that's preposterous. I have never met someone who is wheelchair-bound who is opposed to ADA compliance.

Try another argument..

I wish they would move the Draper statue to the OHS building, to show that his suburbanist ideology is a thing of the past.

Wow. Lost in the bickering was this very salient post. Good idea.

I'm sorry, but that's preposterous. I have never met someone who is wheelchair-bound who is opposed to ADA compliance.

Try another argument..

where did any one say they were against ADA compliance??

the boulders link that area of robinson very nicely to the MBG ...

I'm sorry, but that's preposterous. I have never met someone who is wheelchair-bound who is opposed to ADA compliance.

Try another argument..

Now your just being argumentative, this area is ADA compliant. There are marked crosswalks at both ends of this median. Having handicapped people in both my immediate and extended families, I 100% support ADA standards. With that said, we can't and shouldn't expect crosswalks every 50 feet.

Like the boulders or not, pedestrians aren't supposed to be crossing there anyhow. If the boulders keep that from happening then so be it. Pedestrians are supposed to use crosswalks. Besides, the little pathways that existed across this median pre-p180 weren't ADA compliant anyhow.

Now your just being argumentative, this area is ADA compliant. There are marked crosswalks at both ends of this median. Having handicapped people in both my immediate and extended families, I 100% support ADA standards. With that said, we can't and shouldn't expect crosswalks every 50 feet.

Horse apples!
I defy you to go there now and point out where the curb cuts and cross walks are to cross Robinson from west side to east side with wheelchair or walker to enter into the Century Center from west or north entrance. For nearly 9 months, Robinson has been torn up and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight for a finished cross walk with a curb cut that is "legal" at Main or at Sheridan.
The unofficial crossing between Colcord and 55 N. is the only crossing that has that access. The sidewalks on the south end of the Century Center are not open, so you can't use Main or Sheridan as a crossing area unless you walk into those streets to get into CC.
Maybe the plan is full ADA compliance eventually, but unfortunately, visitors and employees in the building don't have the luxury of not coming to the office until the job is finished. Project 180 timelines were ridiculously underestimated. Since the faux boulders were installed in Robinson median, nothing else has been done to finish what they started.
Am I PO'd? Damn Skippy I am. I've fallen several times because of the design and no place to stabilize with a cane. Several of my co-workers have also. I watched one of our severely handicapped employees struggle to get his walker over a curb while the construction workers stood in the street and made fun of him. The city and the project managers have done nothing to get this area completely finished. I don't give a rat's behind if the boulders look pretty or Devon has landscaping. I just want to go to work.

Horse apples!
I defy you to go there now and point out where the curb cuts and cross walks are to cross Robinson from west side to east side with wheelchair or walker to enter into the Century Center from west or north entrance. For nearly 9 months, Robinson has been torn up and there doesn't seem to be an end in sight for a finished cross walk with a curb cut that is "legal" at Main or at Sheridan.
The unofficial crossing between Colcord and 55 N. is the only crossing that has that access. The sidewalks on the south end of the Century Center are not open, so you can't use Main or Sheridan as a crossing area unless you walk into those streets to get into CC.
Maybe the plan is full ADA compliance eventually, but unfortunately, visitors and employees in the building don't have the luxury of not coming to the office until the job is finished. Project 180 timelines were ridiculously underestimated. Since the faux boulders were installed in Robinson median, nothing else has been done to finish what they started.
Am I PO'd? Damn Skippy I am. I've fallen several times because of the design and no place to stabilize with a cane. Several of my co-workers have also. I watched one of our severely handicapped employees struggle to get his walker over a curb while the construction workers stood in the street and made fun of him. The city and the project managers have done nothing to get this area completely finished. I don't give a rat's behind if the boulders look pretty or Devon has landscaping. I just want to go to work.

i really do feel sorry for your inconvenience during this construction, and i really do hope for people like yourself, that this is done quickly... i wanted to start with that before i asked my question

What access did the unofficial crossing between Colcord and 55 N. offer? sure you have the cut curbs on the west side of the street... but you still had the median in the middle with no cut curbs.... so (as far as i am aware) this was never an ADA compliant crossing point either... so while it worked for you at the time, it didn't work for others. so i don't think your complaint should be at the boulders that were put at a place that wasn't a real crossing location to start with... but to be upset that they didn't finish one corner before destroying the next one... and i agree with you on that part... that is stupid, and should not have been done in that way. They should have completely finished the intersection at Sheridan before ripping things up at Main street...

but your argument for defending a non-ADA compliant cut through that wasn't really a cross walk, doesn't help your argument. complain that the construction was poorly planned (which it was) and that it's a terrible inconvenience on those that are disabled (which it is)... so be mad at our city officials for that, you have every right. but don't argue against them putting rocks in a place to stop people from using a crossing area that never should have been a crossing area in the first place.

I like the use of stone. To me it seems they've taken a modern take of Oklahoma that contrasts the starkness of the concrete surrounding it. I also agree that it complements the around with MBG.

i really do feel sorry for your inconvenience during this construction, and i really do hope for people like yourself, that this is done quickly... i wanted to start with that before i asked my question

What access did the unofficial crossing between Colcord and 55 N. offer? sure you have the cut curbs on the west side of the street... but you still had the median in the middle with no cut curbs.... so (as far as i am aware) this was never an ADA compliant crossing point either... so while it worked for you at the time, it didn't work for others. so i don't think your complaint should be at the boulders that were put at a place that wasn't a real crossing location to start with... but to be upset that they didn't finish one corner before destroying the next one... and i agree with you on that part... that is stupid, and should not have been done in that way. They should have completely finished the intersection at Sheridan before ripping things up at Main street...

but your argument for defending a non-ADA compliant cut through that wasn't really a cross walk, doesn't help your argument. complain that the construction was poorly planned (which it was) and that it's a terrible inconvenience on those that are disabled (which it is)... so be mad at our city officials for that, you have every right. but don't argue against them putting rocks in a place to stop people from using a crossing area that never should have been a crossing area in the first place.

Jedicurt - thank you for your sensitivity and your question is logical. The area most of us are using to cross the street right now has no median. It is the opening where vehicles can exit from 55 N Robinson rear parking lot onto Robinson. There is a curb cut on both sides of Robinson and no median to cross. Once upon a time that open area didn't exist and we were able to use the median to walk over and the differently-abled were able to access either corner.
The boulders/rocks/plaster things in the median make no difference. They are ugly but really don't offend anything but esthetics, IMHO.
The engineering of the intersections and the fact there is an opening of the median and corresponding curb cuts make it a naturally-formed crossing. If the project managers had enough sense to pour lemonade from a boot they'd take advantage of that natural crossing and put up a sign and paint a cross walk. The mid-block crossing would not be unprecedented, albeit unusual.
It's a sore spot with me (literally) but I'll quit beating the comotose equine.

Update from Steve:

http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-project-180-progresses/article/3669428

where did any one say they were against ada compliance??

The boulders link that area of robinson very nicely to the mbg ...


now your just being argumentative, this area is ada compliant. There are marked crosswalks at both ends of this median. Having handicapped people in both my immediate and extended families, i 100% support ada standards. With that said, we can't and shouldn't expect crosswalks every 50 feet.


like the boulders or not, pedestrians aren't supposed to be crossing there anyhow. If the boulders keep that from happening then so be it. Pedestrians are supposed to use crosswalks. Besides, the little pathways that existed across this median pre-p180 weren't ada compliant anyhow.


i like the use of stone. To me it seems they've taken a modern take of oklahoma that contrasts the starkness of the concrete surrounding it. I also agree that it complements the around with mbg.

this

I'm really curious if the "grand" fountains at Park and Robinson are still in the plan considering the sidewalks there have been scrapped.

I'm really curious if the "grand" fountains at Park and Robinson are still in the plan considering the sidewalks there have been scrapped.

Never heard about that; any rendering links?

Seems like a small area to be able to put a "grand" fountain on a corner.

They were to be four vertical obelisks of cut stone with water running down over cut ridges. One on each corner. Very tall and not wide.

They were to be four vertical obelisks of cut stone with water running down over cut ridges. One on each corner. Very tall and not wide.

i'm sure they are still going to do at least the intersection and the 4 corners of the side walks ... i would love to see what this would look like

There was a P180 presentation at the EDT meeting yesterday.

Highlights:


Main Street between Hudson and Walker should be complete by June
Robinson between Park and Main should be complete by July
Sheridan between Robinson and EKG should be complete by July
Bicentennial Park should be complete by October
Couch Drive should be complete by December

They were to be four vertical obelisks of cut stone with water running down over cut ridges. One on each corner. Very tall and not wide.
Dont think these are what you are taling abot but it is the only oblelisks rendering I ran across (did we get these?)

I found the PDF of the final streescape plans on the City of OKC planning site:

http://www.okc.gov/planning/resources/OKC%20Downtown%20Streetscape%20Master%20Plan_FINAL .pdf

It's a huge document but these are most the renderings... They have a separate, yet cohesive, design scheme for all the various downtown disticts (i.e. CBD, Bricktown, Auto Alley, Arts District, etc.):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetscape/streetscape2.jpg

Larry, those renderings were from a very early conceptual design that was abandoned.

Thats too bad...when was it abandoned? This is what I remember being presented to the public that Project 180 was going to entail. Are there revised renderings closer to when it was approved? Or was it another case of government over promising something and then not delivering (as you have well documented the Project 180 cut backs...wasn't it something along the lines of 40% not being done?)


ON EDIT: One would also gather that when something is called "FINAL" that it is precisely that (as in the name of the linked file the renderings were in)...my mistake...LOL

That image was from the 2007 downtown streetscape study

Available here: http://www.okc.gov/planning/resources/OKC%20Downtown%20Streetscape%20Master%20Plan_FINAL .pdf

Totally agree. My earlier comments were however for something that was actually supposed to be done as part of the P180 budget. Now it looks like Park Ave, arguably Oklahoma City's most pedestrian street, will not be done under the current program. I suspect that the fountains that are indeed in the final drawings are not going to happen this go around.

From today courtesy Urban Pioneer:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1805912.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18059122.jpg

when does Robinson open all the way through?

when does Robinson open all the way through?

July as per this week's P180 presentation to the Economic Development Trust.

July as per this week's P180 presentation to the Economic Development Trust.

Ridiculous that it is taking nearly a year - I understand budget cuts, but two guys and a mini-backhoe plus a shovel makes the going slower.
All I want for Christmas is a sidewalk...

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetscape/streetscape2.jpg
Larry, this was this Jeff Speck concept

I like it, (even cooler if those had been fountain features as someone suggested)...should have gone with it...oh well

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/streetscape/streetscape2.jpg
Larry, this was this Jeff Speck concept

Why are developers starting to add small trees in the middle in every new road they construct, I like it I just want to know whats the idea behind the whole thing?

From P180's Facebook page:

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc7/156448_458737284142900_120793601270605_2006059_842 361846_n.jpg

Here's one from today from Urban Pioneer:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18051012.jpg

Why are developers starting to add small trees in the middle in every new road they construct, I like it I just want to know whats the idea behind the whole thing?

Well the roads are being rebuilt by the city (your tax dollars), not developers - the city is trying to beef up its urban canopy (it's a bad thing when a government entity turns out to be the culprit behind low landscaping standards, so the City is trying to raise the bar a little bit with regards to downtown). It's vital for cities to have trees not just for the environment, but also for urban shade, to cool down the city, to provide some definition of space (rows are a good thing), and to drastically improve visual appearances. Developers are following suit by stepping up landscaping on their properties, to tie that in between the buildings that line a street.

Obviously the saplings are intended to grow into larger trees, but they are also chosen specifically to be a certain size already when planted, to not really grow too much over time, and to compliment each other and exist harmoniously with the surrounding environs. It's possible to pick a tree species that messes things up, sticks out, doesn't grow properly, isn't suited for the local conditions, and so on. So there is a lot that goes into landscaping, and believe it or not, it's actually an entire industry of its own separate from architecture.

I like it, (even cooler if those had been fountain features as someone suggested)...should have gone with it...oh well

I believe that the fountain features were actually proposed separately by P180. You should actually try and get your hands on the original handbook that details ALL of the streetscape schemes and shows how they interact with eachother. You might have to pay a few cents per page for the printing, but it should be available at the 420 Building (Planning Dept, forget which floor).

There are some real differences between the P180 handbook and the Jeff Speck study, in which Speck himself actually proposed a streetscape program. So what we did is took his advice, scrapped his hard work on the streetscape program, came up with our own, then got in financial trouble and dumped many of our own proposals, and now we have these weird boulders in the middle of Robinson - a slippery slope narrative which sounds a lot like one of those Dish commercials telling you to not wake up in a ditch, switch from cable.

The boulders would probably not be as offensive if I wasn't already repulsed by the reddish hue of the Sheraton/Century Center block (that's just a long-term complaint I've always had though), which these boulders happen to match all too well.

Well the roads are being rebuilt by the city (your tax dollars), not developers - the city is trying to beef up its urban canopy (it's a bad thing when a government entity turns out to be the culprit behind low landscaping standards, so the City is trying to raise the bar a little bit with regards to downtown). It's vital for cities to have trees not just for the environment, but also for urban shade, to cool down the city, to provide some definition of space (rows are a good thing), and to drastically improve visual appearances. Developers are following suit by stepping up landscaping on their properties, to tie that in between the buildings that line a street.

Obviously the saplings are intended to grow into larger trees, but they are also chosen specifically to be a certain size already when planted, to not really grow too much over time, and to compliment each other and exist harmoniously with the surrounding environs. It's possible to pick a tree species that messes things up, sticks out, doesn't grow properly, isn't suited for the local conditions, and so on. So there is a lot that goes into landscaping, and believe it or not, it's actually an entire industry of its own separate from architecture.

Hopefully they design the boulevard this way, It always resemble a sense of peaceful ness to me.

I believe that the fountain features were actually proposed separately by P180. You should actually try and get your hands on the original handbook that details ALL of the streetscape schemes and shows how they interact with eachother. You might have to pay a few cents per page for the printing, but it should be available at the 420 Building (Planning Dept, forget which floor).

There are some real differences between the P180 handbook and the Jeff Speck study, in which Speck himself actually proposed a streetscape program. So what we did is took his advice, scrapped his hard work on the streetscape program, came up with our own, then got in financial trouble and dumped many of our own proposals, and now we have these weird boulders in the middle of Robinson - a slippery slope narrative which sounds a lot like one of those Dish commercials telling you to not wake up in a ditch, switch from cable.

The boulders would probably not be as offensive if I wasn't already repulsed by the reddish hue of the Sheraton/Century Center block (that's just a long-term complaint I've always had though), which these boulders happen to match all too well.
Spartan: Thanks for the info. I was trying to find a rendering of the fountain obelisks that someone mentioned recently and that was the best I could come up with from early in the thread. BTW, love the Dish commericial analogy...LOL

Spartan: Thanks for the info. I was trying to find a rendering of the fountain obelisks that someone mentioned recently and that was the best I could come up with from early in the thread. BTW, love the Dish commericial analogy...LOL

Just a quick off subject aside, Larry. I was informed by another one of our esteemed posters in another thread that using "LOL" is indicitive of immaturity. LOL

Just a quick off subject aside, Larry. I was informed by another one of our esteemed posters in another thread that using "LOL" is indicitive of immaturity. LOL

I think the only (regular) poster on here, that comes to mind right now, who doesn't use "LOL" every now and then is Pete, but I don't see all of his posts so I may be wrong. LOL

I suppose that speaks for which direction OKCTalk is going. ;-)

EDIT: Not trying to derail the topic, just commenting my observation since the subject popped up, FWIW.

Spartan: Thanks for the info. I was trying to find a rendering of the fountain obelisks that someone mentioned recently and that was the best I could come up with from early in the thread. BTW, love the Dish commericial analogy...LOL

Don't wind up with weird boulders in Robinson, switch from chamber junta control.

I will leave out the implied three letters because I like to think of myself as a mature individual.

:laughing_::LolLolLol

Photo of concrete being poured near the City Hall on Colcord Drive.

They are really making fast progress in that area:

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/560661_467435343273094_120793601270605_2038023_212 0119210_n.jpg

off topic but....

i love seeing all the pictures this year and seeing lush, dark green trees and green grass. I remember last year it was hard to tell if the pic was taken in January or May, cause of the drought

anyways... time to get back on topic

Good progress at Broadway and Sheridan as well:

http://sphotos.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash3/576955_467450776604884_120793601270605_2038061_199 5894813_n.jpg

From Urban Pioneer.



Main at Dewey looking east:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1806112a1.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1806112a2.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1806112a3.jpg

Main Street at Walker looking east (this area STILL not done -- it's amazing that Coney Island and the other businesses have survived):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p1806112a.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18061121.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18061122.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18061123.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18061124.jpg

Hudson at Main, then moving south towards Sheridan:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18061125.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18061126.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18061127.jpg

Robinson Avenue:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18061128.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p18061129.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180611210.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180611211.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180611212.jpg


http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/p180611213.jpg

The basement was patched how long ago?? I'm starting to fear that my concerns about trying to run Coney Island out of business are being more and more validated as W. Main is needlessly dragged out. That construction effectively prevents any Devon business from making the trek.

It seems too obvious that someone is trying to run those businesses out... At this point, how can it not be true?

The basement was patched how long ago?? I'm starting to fear that my concerns about trying to run Coney Island out of business are being more and more validated as W. Main is needlessly dragged out. That construction effectively prevents any Devon business from making the trek.

the sidewalk has been open for some time now ..

I've heard a lot of Project 180 and Devon construction workers frequent Coney Island. Maybe that's how they've held on so long?

That section of Main Street was supposed to be done by last THANKSGIVING -- and that estimate was well after they encountered the basement problems.

Then it was revised to January, then April and the last report said June. It's June now so we'll see if they can wrap it up this month.

What is Coney Island? Was Project 180's damage that severe to the basment?

What is Coney Island? Was Project 180's damage that severe to the basment?

It's an old hot dog spot - you can see the red and white sign about 5 or 6 pictures down on the previous post.