2nd pic to the right and left (charcoal concrete). Some of the other streets such as Harvey are "sharrow" lanes.

Trattoria il Centro is closing down, largely due to Project 180...Sucks really really bad.

Oh, now you've ticked off our downtown socialite councilperson.

Okay - so in that second picture, is that car and truck at the light driving in the bike lane and what will be on-street parking when the parking kiosk issue is resolved? If so, why are there 2 light banks on the stop light pole.

Pete, maybe I'm missing something but I don't see anything resembling bike lanes on any of those streets. Where they supposed to be there originally?


I see them in the second photo (the dark pathway, just outside the white line) but not on the other streets. Were bike lanes to be a part of every street?
Sort answer. No. Longer answer is buried somewhere on these threads...map posted of the streets that were supposed to be getting dedicated lanes, sharrow lanes an none at all. IIRC there were more of them in one direction than the other (like N/S compared to E/W), will try to dig that up...but if someone beats me to it, feel free

ON EDIT, Metro posted it here: http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=22783&p=354562#post354562
http://www.okc.gov/PROJECT180/BIKEROUTE.PDF


Okay - so in that second picture, is that car and truck at the light driving in the bike lane and what will be on-street parking when the parking kiosk issue is resolved? If so, why are there 2 light banks on the stop light pole.
I have noticed several places around town where number of lights do not correspond with number of lanes (either too many or too few). But if it is sharrow lane (and not dedicated) that might explain it.

So did we get/are we still getting most of the design elements in the renderings from the beginning of the thread? it all looked really kewl....
http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=22783&p=262841#post262841

So did we get/are we still getting most of the design elements in the renderings from the beginning of the thread? it all looked really kewl....
http://www.okctalk.com/showthread.php?t=22783&p=262841#post262841

No, those were just preliminary ideas.

Too bad...what they have done looks nice but it could have been so much nicer

Too bad...what they have done looks nice but it could have been so much nicer

But then, instead of having 40% of the work cut, as has happened, 75% or more would have been eliminated. LOL

Trattoria il Centro closes, owners blame demise on Project 180 construction delays (http://newsok.com/trattoria-il-centro-closes-owners-blame-demise-on-project-180-construction-delays/article/3659957)

Downtown's Trattoria il Centro, a culinary favorite with patrons at the nearby Civic Center Music Hall, is closing its doors next week with owners blaming its demise on Project 180.

Trattoria il Centro closes, owners blame demise on Project 180 construction delays (http://newsok.com/trattoria-il-centro-closes-owners-blame-demise-on-project-180-construction-delays/article/3659957)

Downtown's Trattoria il Centro, a culinary favorite with patrons at the nearby Civic Center Music Hall, is closing its doors next week with owners blaming its demise on Project 180.

Way to go City, is it just me, or is Project 90 doing more harm than good?

Way to go City, is it just me, or is Project 90 doing more harm than good?

It's just you.

Trattoria il Centro is closing down, largely due to Project 180...Sucks really really bad.

Perhaps they should be given preference in the restaurant location at Myriad Gardens as consideration. Give Coney Island an option for the casual option at the other MG site.

Strange that they hung in there this whole time then decided to close after the street construction was finished.

I'm sure P180 was not their only issue but you take 25% of anyone's business for a year and that would kill many places.

This place had no designated parking, you had to park offsite and walk to get there (this building never lost access by foot), so them using Project 180 as a reason for closure in nonsense.

Perhaps they should be given preference in the restaurant location at Myriad Gardens as consideration. Give Coney Island an option for the casual option at the other MG site.

there is only 1 MBG restaurant site

One finished out now. One planned as a casual restaurant at the other side was planned, I believe. Coneys would be good option.

One finished out now. One planned as a casual restaurant at the other side was planned, I believe. Coneys would be good option.

the one on the other side was scrapped a long time ago and was not part of the final design

One finished out now. One planned as a casual restaurant at the other side was planned, I believe. Coneys would be good option.

MBG renovations are pretty much done. There aren't projects like this left.

This place had no designated parking, you had to park offsite and walk to get there (this building never lost access by foot), so them using Project 180 as a reason for closure in nonsense.. . .you're right that the building never lost access by foot, but it was a really dirty, dusty walk to get there. . .several times I just didn't want to make the trek through the dirt. . .so I know it had an effect on me.

Perhaps they should be given preference in the restaurant location at Myriad Gardens as consideration. Give Coney Island an option for the casual option at the other MG site.

THAT is a great idea. Trattoria already has a following and a well-established name, two things you WON'T get with a new business brought to you by Larry Nichols Caterers.

This place had no designated parking, you had to park offsite and walk to get there (this building never lost access by foot), so them using Project 180 as a reason for closure in nonsense.

I know people get tired of my kvetching on here, but your's is especially annoying. At least mine is constructive and arguing for better quality environments. Yours is always just down-right destructive and negative. Why are you always so negative? If anyone has a better idea for this city, why do you always have to shoot it down? And in this case, what do you have against Trattoria? c'mon get off it..

I know people get tired of my kvetching on here, but your's is especially annoying. At least mine is constructive and arguing for better quality environments. Yours is always just down-right destructive and negative. Why are you always so negative? If anyone has a better idea for this city, why do you always have to shoot it down? And in this case, what do you have against Trattoria? c'mon get off it..

I think he's just calling it as he sees it. But the story today said when the streets were torn up, business dropped by 1/4 th.

Photos from today of Robinson being paved, courtesy Urban Pioneer:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/robinson1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/robinson2.jpg

If the end result is that the improvements bring MORE people close to the business for years to come and makes getting to them easier, wouldn't you think they would try to stick it out though? Pete's comment about curious timing has some merit. Just when they are about to reap the benefits, they have to close. Maybe the city should have a fund for low interest loans to businesses harmed by these kind of improvement projects. Low interest and delayed repayment terms so that the affected businesses can be rewarded for sticking it out in the name of progress for all.

This place had no designated parking, you had to park offsite and walk to get there (this building never lost access by foot), so them using Project 180 as a reason for closure in nonsense.

Not designated parking, but it was always pretty easy to find street parking within a block of the Montgomery before P180 started. P180 construction made it impossible to park within a block. I also know that while you could always access it by foot, at times you had to walk all the way around the block to access the building due to the construction. In a city where most find walking more than a block exhausting, it can be deadly to business of Trattoria il Centro's size. I used to go to Trattoria il Centro and Coney Island every now and then and have tried to double it since construction started because I knew they were being affected. Believe me, it got at least twice as hard to do it, especially since access was always so easy before the construction started.

It's probably a case of them not doing gang-busters business in the first place, then the prolonged P180 mess likely made things even more difficult and even though the project is now larger finished, the cumulative effect just became too big of a financial hole.

The restaurant business is very, very tough and they were pretty brave in going in there when they did. Whatever disruption caused by the aggressive construction -- big or small -- is significant given their situation.

In retrospect, some of the Devon TIF money could have been earmarked to help these small business owners, as some of it is already set aside for attracting new businesses downtown. But that was never considered because they never thought things would take so incredibly long; yet another consequence of poor project estimating and management.

I hope we don't lose anyone else over this.

Wow, if walking across 20 ft of gravel is too much for us OKCitians to handle, I think this walk-ability issue has to be re-examined. Maybe we should factor in wussability instead of walkability. Sliding sidewalks with martini stands on every street, not bike stands !!!!!!

Wow, if walking across 20 ft of gravel is too much for us OKCitians to handle, I think this walk-ability issue has to be re-examined. Maybe we should factor in wussability instead of walkability. Sliding sidewalks with martini stands on every street, not bike stands !!!!!!

I agree, if it's not worth walking a little further, or getting a little dust on you in the process, then how good could the food have really been.

I agree, if it's not worth walking a little further, or getting a little dust on you in the process, then how good could the food have really been.

My wife and I went a few years back, and that was the only time we've been in the place.....wasn't bad, but no reason to do back flips for, been to much better.

QUOTE=Rover;522216]Wow, if walking across 20 ft of gravel is too much for us OKCitians to handle, I think this walk-ability issue has to be re-examined. Maybe we should factor in wussability instead of walkability. Sliding sidewalks with martini stands on every street, not bike stands !!!!!![/QUOTE]

:poke: not sure if this was directed at me/my post. . . but. . .I'm not one of the "have to have parking within 200 feet" people and absolutely don't mind walking several blocks. . but. . .through gravel and dirt in heels and a silk suit/dressy attire before a Civic Center performance/event at the MOA?? Would have in a heart-beat if the streets weren't torn up. . .in fact, did it a couple of times and felt grimy the rest of the evening (of course, our Oklahoma "gentle breezes" didn't help matters, but they too would have been easier to take had they not created a major dirt storm with the streets being torn up. I'm very "pro" anything that makes OKC a better place. . .and I think Project 180 will do that in the long run (not going to get into the cut-backs. . .but (with some possible exceptions) whatever we get will be better than what we had. . . ). I just hate that it is at the cost of a place I really liked. Was Il Trat the "end and all". . . no. . .but I liked it (and most times when I was there, it was more than 1/4 full. . .but Friday/Saturday nite does not a full time business make. . .) and it was a more than acceptable place to grab a quick drink and a bite before a performance at the CC. I will miss them and am hoping they will re-open in another "close-by"/walking distance location.

I think he's just calling it as he sees it. But the story today said when the streets were torn up, business dropped by 1/4 th.

Right, I think she was saying that first they took a hit for the street construction, and the final blow (or "death knell" if you're in the State Leg.) was the Civic Center construction. Apparently the Civic Center was always Trattoria's life support, although I find that...hard to believe for a restaurant that made a name for itself for 5 years.

The Civic Center construction would have happened anyway, as we all know--and the city was dead-set on Rand's designs over anyone's dead body, or over any city council objections, like it or not. So it seems like if Trattoria really was totally dependent on Civic Center traffic, that them closing would have been difficult to avoid all throughout this.

Wow, if walking across 20 ft of gravel is too much for us OKCitians to handle, I think this walk-ability issue has to be re-examined. Maybe we should factor in wussability instead of walkability. Sliding sidewalks with martini stands on every street, not bike stands !!!!!!

+100

First building permits issued today for the new civic center park.

They already have all the roads surrounding it torn up but they are now set to start work on the park itself.

I was by there Saturday and it was stripped clean.

I've been away from OKC for a bit, but had the opportunity to return last weekend. I bought tickets to Pink Martini at the the Civic Center (GREAT show by the way) and took my wife to dinner in Bricktown and then on to the Civic Center. We're both young(ish) and physically fit, so we didn't mind the walk from where we parked, but the condition of the sidewalks and streets leading to the Civic Center were ridiculous. They obviously knew there was a performance, yet there were no signs directing foot traffic along a safer path (especially for women in heels in the dark). What should have happened, as I have seen in other cities, is a temporary walkway of plywood to safely cross the area immediately adjacent to the driveway that was basically an open area awaiting a concrete pour. Total cost would have been a couple hundred dollars, including the labor. Would sure beat a lawsuit from some octogenarian falling and breaking a hip. Very poor execution from an otherwise classy operation.

Also, sad to see Trattoria closing, as there are few places to eat within walking distance of the Civic Center. Also, they could offer a free shuttle from Bricktown on performance nights, like the Kennedy Center in DC.

Now that's some Common Sense.

Here's a photo of Civic Center Park from Urban Pioneer:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/civic32712.jpg

Wow.. I must be falling behind.
I did not know they were going to get started that quickly.
I am just ready for them to open Robinson south of Park Ave!

The roads around it are really torn up as well:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/civic32712b.jpg

It looks like an open pasture in the middle of downtown.

Did they take down some trees here, too? I always HATE to see mature trees come down, if they did. Hopefully a newly landscaped area with an innovative design (think new look of Myriad Gardens) will make up for this loss of mature plantings.

Did they take down some trees here, too? I always HATE to see mature trees come down, if they did. Hopefully a newly landscaped area with an innovative design (think new look of Myriad Gardens) will make up for this loss of mature plantings.

They did take out trees and from the age and way they had been placed few if any could be transplanted.

Streets around City Hall all torn up in advance of P180 improvements (courtesy Urban Pioneer):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/cityhall32812.jpg

there will be a presentation on the conversion of downtown street to 2 way .. at tomorrows council meeting

I've been away from OKC for a bit, but had the opportunity to return last weekend. I bought tickets to Pink Martini at the the Civic Center (GREAT show by the way) and took my wife to dinner in Bricktown and then on to the Civic Center. We're both young(ish) and physically fit, so we didn't mind the walk from where we parked, but the condition of the sidewalks and streets leading to the Civic Center were ridiculous. They obviously knew there was a performance, yet there were no signs directing foot traffic along a safer path (especially for women in heels in the dark). What should have happened, as I have seen in other cities, is a temporary walkway of plywood to safely cross the area immediately adjacent to the driveway that was basically an open area awaiting a concrete pour. Total cost would have been a couple hundred dollars, including the labor. Would sure beat a lawsuit from some octogenarian falling and breaking a hip. Very poor execution from an otherwise classy operation.

No doubt. I park at the Galleria parking garage for games and it's a total mess getting from there to the arena, especially with my young son. In addition to not knowing where to cross, they are forcing pedestrian traffic onto the street. I don't mind construction, but the total lack of consideration for safety, not to mention liability, is mind blowing, really.

Here are screen captures of the slides from yesterday's council presentation on downtown two-way street conversion.

Of note, Hudson is now projected to be completed by the end of the year, drawing some general city funds (in addition to P180) to get it done.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/twoway1.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/twoway2.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/twoway3.jpg

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/twoway4.jpg

BTW, Ed Shadid went off towards the end of the meeting about the way the Civic Center Park project went down.

Basically, he called the Civic Center Foundation unethical for adding Larry Nichols's name to the park without his permission; once he found out, he asked it be removed. Shadid claimed it was done to intimidate others from opposition; ostensibly by putting his name on the project they were attempting to stifle discussion.

Ed Shadid is the best thing to ever happen to city council. If we could just get a few more like him.

Ate lunch at Nebu today. While trying to navigate to Devon, I noticed all the east/west streets are tore up from Main to Dean A. McGee, ridiculous, and don't get me started on the Civic Center park, it's even more hideous than the pictures recently posted.

BTW, Ed Shadid went off towards the end of the meeting about the way the Civic Center Park project went down.

Basically, he called the Civic Center Foundation unethical for adding Larry Nichols's name to the park without his permission; once he found out, he asked it be removed. Shadid claimed it was done to intimidate others from opposition; ostensibly by putting his name on the project they were attempting to stifle discussion.

Steve is all over it.

http://newsok.com/article/3663319?click_action=1

I find it very hard to believe that they attempted to rename this park after him without his knowledge. We'll see if Carol Troy is looking for a new job soon because I don't see any way she can stay as Chairwoman of the Civic Center Foundation.

Here's a better version of that slide from the two-way street conversion presentation:

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/twoway5.jpg

Steve is all over it.

http://newsok.com/article/3663319?click_action=1

I find it very hard to believe that they attempted to rename this park after him without his knowledge. We'll see if Carol Troy is looking for a new job soon because I don't see any way she can stay as Chairwoman of the Civic Center Foundation.

It's almost insulting, really. He knows everything going on downtown. A park to be renamed after him and nobody has razzed him, kidded him, congratulated him? I mean, really, it wasn't just Carol Troy who thought she, alone, could rename a city property. And the Civic Center Foundation crowd is the same crowd that runs with Nichols and his family.

His name was attached to the park very recently and as soon as Nichols found out, he asked that it be removed.

His name was attached to the park very recently and as soon as Nichols found out, he asked that it be removed.

So the official story goes. I understand that.

Based on everything he has done for OKC, I have no reason not to give Mr. Nichols the benefit of the doubt.

I also know people that deal with him in the business world who have nothing but fantastic things to say about him. That's a rare thing among the wildly successful.


There was a time that I thought Nichols was leaning on the City to push through his P180 objectives but Steve later told me that he had sat in on many of the meetings and that that was definitely not the case.


There is a time to call out people but there is also the time to give credit where credit is due. I would argue that Larry Nichols has done more good for downtown OKC than any other person, and very little of what he has done has been self-serving.

Based on everything he has done for OKC, I have no reason not to give Mr. Nichols the benefit of the doubt.

I also know people that deal with him in the business world who have nothing but fantastic things to say about him. That's a rare thing among the wildly successful.


There was a time that I thought Nichols was leaning on the City to push through his P180 objectives but Steve later told me that he had sat in on many of the meetings and that that was definitely not the case.


There is a time to call out people but there is also the time to give credit where credit is due. I would argue that Larry Nichols has done more good for downtown OKC than any other person, and very little of what he has done has been self-serving.

I agree with you. Maybe it happened just as he said. It's possibly my BS meter set too sensitively, because you're right and I can't disagree with anything you wrote.

Mike, there are others in town that deserve skepticism but I honestly believe that Mr. Nichols is not one of them.

I'm not saying he's infallible or that we should just all lay down to his will, but I do not question his motives whatsoever.

Mike, there are others in town that deserve skepticism but I honestly believe that Mr. Nichols is not one of them.

I'm not saying he's infallible or that we should just all lay down to his will, but I do not question his motives whatsoever.

I really do understand. I wasn't being sarcastic or anything after your reply. It took just a minute after reading your first reply to make me realize I was being unfair and projecting some others in our city onto Mr. Nichols and that's wrong.

Carefule Pete. I was called names on this board for defending Larry. Lol.