As long as MAPS3 is managed effectively, I won't be too worried. But I don't exactly trust that to happen, either.

Here's what's changed:

1) Information is flowing much more readily these days. Anyone can see minutes of all the committees and even watch videotaped proceedings. And it must be said, Steve's reporting has a much harder edge (no doubt due to increased freedom afforded by new owners and leadership.)

2) Several powerful people in the corporate world are anxious to push through their own agendas and the city acts like we should be thanking them instead of questioning them. They may mean well, but lots of people who aren't elected and thus have no accountability are having a tremendous influence.

3) The Economic Development Trust has consolidated power further.

4) The city staff is obviously overwhelmed and also caught between a rock and a hard place. There is so much to do and lots of pressure coming from outside the usual chain of command (see #2&3).

5) The Mayor seems aligned with the private interests and seems to have his own agendas. It's clear when he wants a council decision to go a certain way by the position he takes and by the way he directs discussion.

6) We have at least one City Councilman who is willing to put his neck out and challenge when he feels it's necessary. I'm not sure this happened much in the past and you can see why by the way he's treated in the meetings. I'm sure some of these same things happened in the past but everyone just went along with the flow, so now things seem unusually acrimonious.


I think everyone involved has good intentions but they also have their own ideas on what should be done when; and it's clear there are a handful of people that are just bulldozing their agendas through.

BTW, I think there is another force at work here and as a direct consequence of the public/private alliances...

We have powerful business people who are used to executing their plans with power flowing unimpeded from the top. This is not how government works, which is why corporate types routinely promise to bring business savvy to political office, get frustrated without accomplishing much and then quit.

I've seen these meetings where executives demand to get things done: "How hard can this be?? We are going to set a plan and drive it through!!"

But this isn't how a true democracy works. Everybody gets their say and there a lots of people involved in decision making and they all have to answer to their constituents.

You can see direct evidence of Devon dictating what will be done here, which was the whole genesis of Project 180 in the first place; especially the up-front loan to get this stuff done NOW. And you can imagine the city staff feels both responsible to execute the wishes of Devon (they've said as much) while trying to juggle a budget and deal with the dozens of businesses and other interests that are directly affected. So, they do their best and try to paint a rosy picture when in fact the project has gone completely off the rails.

I can see this happening again, especially when it comes to the convention center. All the same people are involved, they all have their agendas and they want it done NOW.


I also want to reiterate that I believe pretty much everyone here has good intentions; they are trying to do what they feel is right for OKC. But it's also clear they think they know best and are trying to force through their ideas and at least somewhat circumvent the public process.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out why Devon and others want this project pushed ahead versus the street projects. I guess this is what Steve is asking city officials, but I'm trying to figure out what Devon and the like get out of having this park done versus having the streets done. Is it to push a personal agenda?

This is depressing. We need to elect more councilmembers like Shadid and Pete White.

The reason they don't directly address why the park was put ahead of important street projects is because they don't have a good answer.

In the beginning, they mapped out this wildly ambitious plan to re-do ALL the streets and ALL the parks and just started at it based on what was easiest due to other downtown construction, such as Devon Tower, SandRidge, etc. For example, two of the very first streets torn up were Reno and 4th which both had recently seen improvements. But it was just easiest to start there and it would all be done in a few years anyway, so nobody cared much about order.

Then, they realized they were going way over budget, a fact they never bothered to share publicly. By this time, they had already spent most their money and put the next work out to bid and paid a ton of engineering and architecture fees for the next things in the queue (like the Civic Center Park) while all the time saying "it will all be done, just some of it will be in the future".

The City Council finally wised up there was in fact no money left to do 40% of what had been promised and started asking questions.

In the meeting before last both Jim Couch and the Mayor completely brushed off the question of priorities with absurd non-answers like "Something had to come first. It's all important."


The bottom line is that they were being rushed by the Devon Implementation Committee and Economic Development Trust to get these things done and nobody stopped to recalibrate when they got way off budget and way behind schedule. By the time this became known to elected officials, it was too late to do much about it. And even the last minute attempts to put a couple of streets before a park were pretty much blown-off.

I guess I'm just trying to figure out why Devon and others want this project pushed ahead versus the street projects. I guess this is what Steve is asking city officials, but I'm trying to figure out what Devon and the like get out of having this park done versus having the streets done. Is it to push a personal agenda?

The park is also going to be renamed Larry Nichols Park. Dare I suggest ego may be involved here?

I doubt Larry really cares about the park name and they don't need another park...they have the best one right out their front door. I would think that Larry and Devon's priorities are most likely the streets anyway. That is what affects their employees most and they are HIGHLY employee-centric at Devon.

Except Devon just footed nearly $600,000 in private donations to make sure the park makeover is fully funded. It sounds like Devon has prioritized this park over the streets.

Larry Nichols has a 850 foot shrine to his accomplishments in the form of Devon Tower and the Myriad Gardens was beautifully reworked as a direct result of his efforts. I doubt very seriously he cares much about getting his name on Civic Center Park.

The whole city staff / sub-committee process is what is broken here. That this project could go so far off budget before it came to the attention of City Council (and thus, the public) illustrates big failures in their oversight functions.

Having seen the minutes from both the Devon Implementation Committee and the Economic Development Trust (the first two approval steps before hitting City Council) it's pretty clear they weren't diligent in terms of understanding the budget and schedule.

Even if city staff was just trying to gloss over these problems, it was the job of these committees to review budgets, especially as they were presented will multiple funding requests along the way. The City Council has dozens of items on their agenda each week and rely on these committees for due diligence.

I doubt Larry really cares about the park name and they don't need another park...they have the best one right out their front door. I would think that Larry and Devon's priorities are most likely the streets anyway. That is what affects their employees most and they are HIGHLY employee-centric at Devon.

Rover would never crap again if Larry Nichols told him not too. Devon has been great for the city, but you don't have to rationalize ridiculous responses, which you consistently do, when there are reasonable problems to be discussed.

Rover would never crap again if Larry Nichols told him not too. Devon has been great for the city, but you don't have to rationalize ridiculous responses, which you consistently do, when there are reasonable problems to be discussed.

Whatever. I just don't understanding the demonizing of people of whose intentions you do not know. BTW, I believe Pete is agreeing with me. So go insult Pete now.

if you are refering to the core to shore "study" ... then yes those "stakeholders" at least were named .. and the subcommittee was/is able to craft a response

Yes. Fortunately, the process has "availed us" the opportunity to formally respond to the questions/assertions made in the C2S "Study", although it took a great deal of effort to do so. The audio of this past meeting will be available soon after the mastering is complete for public review.

No need to insult anyone, regardless of difference of opinions.


To clarify my position, I do believe Larry Nichols has been absolutely fantastic for downtown. You could argue he's done more (with plenty still to come) than any single person, including Ron Norrick.

In addition to providing OKC with our first truly world-class corporate HQ, he's directly responsible for the fantastic changes in the Myriad Gardens, every bit of the downtown roadwork and streetscape, and for bringing Continental Resources to town. It's clear that he is working hard to bring at least one more large corporate HQ to the CBD.

He has also spent a lot of time and expense making the Devon complex open and inviting to the entire community. Really, it would take a very long time to list everything he's done for OKC, as Devon's philanthropy hasn't even been mentioned yet.

And when you are driving all this change you are going to ruffle feathers -- no way around it. I really do think Devon is behind the Preftakes acquisitions and is working to help make a new tower happen on that block. Some buildings there will have to be removed as a result, so Nichols and Devon will have to take some heat for that. It's the price of leadership.

People that know Nichols through his business dealings are unanimous in saying he is of great character. I personally think it's way off base to accuse him of intentional wrong-doing.

But as Ed Shadid has pointed out, our system is a democracy not a plutocracy. Even a benevolent plutocrat like Nichols can be responsible for very bad outcomes while having only the purest intentions.


I think it's fine and responsible to challenge some assumptions and decisions being made/driven by Nichols and Devon but that is very different than calling the motives questionable. If you have been following the ample body of evidence, I don't see how you could come to that conclusion.

. . . .No need to insult anyone, regardless of difference of opinions. . . . .I think it's fine and responsible to challenge some assumptions and decisions being made/driven by Nichols and Devon but that is very different than calling the motives questionable. If you have been following the ample body of evidence, I don't see how you could come to that conclusion.

+1

No need to insult anyone, regardless of difference of opinions.


To clarify my position, I do believe Larry Nichols has been absolutely fantastic for downtown. You could argue he's done more (with plenty still to come) than any single person, including Ron Norrick.

In addition to providing OKC with our first truly world-class corporate HQ, he's directly responsible for the fantastic changes in the Myriad Gardens, every bit of the downtown roadwork and streetscape, and for bringing Continental Resources to town. It's clear that he is working hard to bring at least one more large corporate HQ to the CBD.

He has also spent a lot of time and expense making the Devon complex open and inviting to the entire community. Really, it would take a very long time to list everything he's done for OKC, as Devon's philanthropy hasn't even been mentioned yet.

And when you are driving all this change you are going to ruffle feathers -- no way around it. I really do think Devon is behind the Preftakes acquisitions and is working to help make a new tower happen on that block. Some buildings there will have to be removed as a result, so Nichols and Devon will have to take some heat for that. It's the price of leadership.

People that know Nichols through his business dealings are unanimous in saying he is of great character. I personally think it's way off base to accuse him of intentional wrong-doing.

But as Ed Shadid has pointed out, our system is a democracy not a plutocracy. Even a benevolent plutocrat like Nichols can be responsible for very bad outcomes while having only the purest intentions.


I think it's fine and responsible to challenge some assumptions and decisions being made/driven by Nichols and Devon but that is very different than calling the motives questionable. If you have been following the ample body of evidence, I don't see how you could come to that conclusion.

Agree, I personally have great respect for Mr. Nichols

I don't know Larry Nichols myself - I've only briefly met him - but know plenty of people who have worked for or with him over the years. The idea of him being involved in something self-promoting or nefarious would run 100% counter to everything I have ever heard anyone say about him. Until proven otherwise, I choose to go with the opinions of the people I know and trust.

I don't know Larry Nichols myself - I've only briefly met him - but know plenty of people who have worked for or with him over the years. The idea of him being involved in something self-promoting or nefarious would run 100% counter to everything I have ever heard anyone say about him. Until proven otherwise, I choose to go with the opinions of the people I know and trust.

I agree in principle, but that doesn't conflict with the possibility that he may have benevolent intentions that are unfortunately not very democratic in practice. The guy can make virtually anything happen, misguided or otherwise.

It's not Nichols. I assert that he/Devon has very little to do with this park debate. It is just easier to "go there" in trying to make sense out of it.

The Answer

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/29/the-answer-3/

The question: How did a cosmetic makeover of the park take priority over the reconstruction of streets like E.K. Gaylord, the two-way conversion of Hudson Avenue — both streets deemed disaster zones for pedestrians?

It sounds like this is the best answer we're gonna get. What's done is done.

I propose Larry Nichols donate the money to complete Project 180 as promised. He is obviously the one most responsible for revenue shortalls. Then everyone can visit Nichols Park in good conscience.

:lol2:Just a little bit of satire for those who don't see the irony of the situation.

I propose Larry Nichols donate the money to complete Project 180 as promised. He is obviously the one most responsible for revenue shortalls. Then everyone can visit Nichols Park in good conscience.

Wow, really?

:Lies:
The Answer

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/29/the-answer-3/

The question: How did a cosmetic makeover of the park take priority over the reconstruction of streets like E.K. Gaylord, the two-way conversion of Hudson Avenue — both streets deemed disaster zones for pedestrians?

But if he WANTED to, he could have this situation corrected. Just one phone call.

I propose Larry Nichols donate the money to complete Project 180 as promised. He is obviously the one most responsible for revenue shortalls. Then everyone can visit Nichols Park in good conscience.

This is beyond silly.....................

:Lies:

But if he WANTED to, he could have this situation corrected. Just one phone call.

All he has to do is say - hold off on the park and fix Hudson first. Pretty easy to call to make.

All he has to do is say - hold off on the park and fix Hudson first. Pretty easy to call to make.

You're so right. With his power, he certainly could have just picked up the phone and said just that - end of story.

You're so right. With his power, he certainly could have just picked up the phone and said just that - end of story.

He'd really be in trouble for 'interferring with the process' then. Over on Steve's blog, he has a letter written from Jim Couch to him explaining all of the rising issues at play here...

Here is the way Project 180 decisions were/are made:

City Staff develops budgets and schedules
Devon Implementation Committee reviews, helps set priorities, etc.
Economic Development Trust also reviews
City Council gives final approval


The problem is that priorities did not become an issue until late last year, when these various committees were first made aware of budget shortfalls in December 2011. Up until then, it was assumed everything would get done and the things that were going first had more to do with working around other downtown construction than anything else.

The real issue is that no one addressed the budget problem until it was too late to do anything about it. By last December when this came out, almost all the money had already been spent, either on the first phases of the project or on A&E fees for things like Bicentennial Park.

So in December this gets presented to the Council and that's when you heard the first squawks, which started the park vs. streets debate. The A&E money had already been spent, the streets around the park were starting to get torn up, and it was really too late to put the brakes on. Or at the very least, very few people were willing to wage a public war about this.


What's being lost here is that the committees really failed to understand the budget problems. Watching the way the information was presented to the committees by the city staff, it's no wonder. But on the other hand, they didn't demand specific budgets or ask many questions about obvious cost overruns.

So, by the time this hits the fan the money had been spent, plans were very far along and there was no real opportunity to shift priorities.


I'm not at all comfortable with Jim Couch's "answer" to Steve and it's not an answer at all. He explains there were cost overruns but why wasn't this addressed in a direct manner before it got too late to do anything?

This project has been underway for a couple of years and we only learn the exact nature of the budget problem in December?

And even then Couch and Wegner were insisting in front of City Council that it would all get done, the scope had not changed, etc. There was the little matter of not having any money for this and having had spent their entire budget on only 60% of what had been promised, but of course it was best not to bother our elected officials with those trivial details.

He'd really be in trouble for 'interferring with the process' then. Over on Steve's blog, he has a letter written from Jim Couch to him explaining all of the rising issues at play here...

That's the way it has worked downtown for years. If you have the power and dollars - people listen. Get in trouble? Yeah, right. And as for Couch's letter to Steve, there's always an "official" version or, in this case, really no version at all as Pete points out in a post just a minute ago.

That's the way it has worked downtown for years. If you have the power and dollars - people listen. Get in trouble? Yeah, right. And as for Couch's letter to Steve, there's always an "official" version or, in this case, really no version at all as Pete points out in a post just a minute ago.

He'd have this board down on him if he 'made the call'......don't you know.

Nichols led the Devon Implementation Committee and it was their job to review and approve priorities in the first place.

I think he just merely went along with the city staff without realizing they were going to be well short of money and by then it was too late to do anything about it.

Let's look at this in hard numbers.

When City Council was asked to sign off on a revised P180 budget of 12/16/11, these were the line items for the only remaining funds:

$7.8 million for Package 6, basically finishing Robinson, Harvey and the streets around SandRidge
$4 million for Bicentennial Park
$1.75 million for pedestrian plaza east of City Center East Garage
$.75 million for pedestrian corridor between Devon Tower and the Underground


Package 6 obviously couldn't be cut, otherwise Harvey & Robinson would end up in the dreaded two-way, one-way, two-way configuration.


So, of the $157 million total budget only $6.5 million -- 4% -- could have been re-prioritized.

And a good chunk of that had already been spent on A&E fees for Bicentennial Park and the other two projects.

All he has to do is say - hold off on the park and fix Hudson first. Pretty easy to call to make.

Surely you know it doesn't work that way. And you guys need to decide...do you want him involved and in control or not. Or just to do what YOU guys want and then leave. This is the council's mess and they should be held accountable.

Surely you know it doesn't work that way. And you guys need to decide...do you want him involved and in control or not. Or just to do what YOU guys want and then leave. This is the council's mess and they should be held accountable.

And be left with no one in which to pass blame or criticize, you sure expect a lot.

More on Project 180

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/03/02/more-on-project-180/

in next tuesdays CC meeting item VI T. the city is ratifying a submittal of a 2.5mil grant from ODOT and FHA from the p180 type improvements on EKG infront of the HUB

Should be interesting:


The OU Institute for Quality Communities invites you to attend a presentation of the Streets for People lecture series by Jim Burnett and Jereck Boss of the Office of James Burnett. The presentation will focus on the design of Project 180, a major overhaul of streets and public spaces in downtown Oklahoma City.

"Project 180"

Thursday, March 15 at 4:00pm

Speakers: Jim Burnett and Jereck Boss
Date: Thursday, March 15
Time: Refreshments 3:30pm | Presentation 4:00pm
Location: 830 Van Vleet Oval, Gould Hall Gallery
Costs: This event is free and open to the public.

Should be interesting:


The OU Institute for Quality Communities invites you to attend a presentation of the Streets for People lecture series by Jim Burnett and Jereck Boss of the Office of James Burnett. The presentation will focus on the design of Project 180, a major overhaul of streets and public spaces in downtown Oklahoma City.

"Project 180"

Thursday, March 15 at 4:00pm

Speakers: Jim Burnett and Jereck Boss
Date: Thursday, March 15
Time: Refreshments 3:30pm | Presentation 4:00pm
Location: 830 Van Vleet Oval, Gould Hall Gallery
Costs: This event is free and open to the public.

You can also RSVP on the Facebook event here: http://www.facebook.com/events/349850061726006/

And "Like" the Institute for Quality Communities, which frequently does events on the "Streets for People" topic, here: http://www.facebook.com/pages/OU-Institute-for-Quality-Communities/224349357615876

Should be neat to hear Jim Burnett speak about their designs.

Steve just tweeted that OKC public works is now saying another month to finish Main Street in front of Coney Island.

They originally promised Thanksgiving and this was well after they had discovered budget and schedule wrecking complications with just about every other street and hardscape fix. Still, they will have missed their own estimate by six months -- at least.

I'm really starting to worry about these guys managing all the big public projects that are coming up.

Steve just tweeted that OKC public works is now saying another month to finish Main Street in front of Coney Island.

They originally promised Thanksgiving and this was well after they had discovered budget and schedule wrecking complications with just about every other street and hardscape fix. Still, they will have missed their own estimate by six months -- at least.

I'm really starting to worry about these guys managing all the big public projects that are coming up.

Don't worry. We need to get on Rand's monument to himself post haste! Chop, Chop! We need an iconic postmodernist statement to accompany our historic Art Deco civic plaza.

schedule arts fest to happen on main street and it will be finished in a week

I am feeling bad for the Coney Island....when I got off work later this morning that's where I'm going for lunch.....He needs some business and I need a good chilidog....

I am feeling bad for the Coney Island....when I got off work later this morning that's where I'm going for lunch.....He needs some business and I need a good chilidog....

Any conspiracy theorists on here think that they're trying to run him out of business this way without having the bad PR?

Keep in mind Main Place (owned by the City) immediately east of Coney Island is going nowhere.

If you were to combine the three business west of that (C.I., pizza place and corner spot that is empty) that is only a quarter of an acre and hemmed in by a huge building.

Whatever the plans may be for that block I can't believe those buildings will play a major part.

Any conspiracy theorists on here think that they're trying to run him out of business this way without having the bad PR?

I doubt it is a consideration one way or another. If "they", whoever "they" are, wanted CI to leave there are lots easier ways to do it. Sometime the conspiracy stuff gets totally irrational.

Please find that the February, MAPS 3 Transit Subcommittee Meeting audio is now available for the public.

Extensive discussion was had regarding to responding to the Core to Shore "Study"

http://soundcloud.com/moderntransitproject-okc/feb-22-2012-maps-3-transit

Keep in mind Main Place (owned by the City) immediately east of Coney Island is going nowhere.

If you were to combine the three business west of that (C.I., pizza place and corner spot that is empty) that is only a quarter of an acre and hemmed in by a huge building.

Whatever the plans may be for that block I can't believe those buildings will play a major part.

That doesn't mean that Coney Island has a place in those plans, even if they will end up saving one of the many sound historic structures on that block.

I am feeling bad for the Coney Island....when I got off work later this morning that's where I'm going for lunch.....He needs some business and I need a good chilidog....

I went for the first time last Thursday. After driving around in circles to find a place to park I finally found an open, non-reserved by the month spot, and hiked through the construction mess to get there. I thought it was pretty cool and liked the chili dog(s) a lot. I hope the place survives because I will definitely go back when I am downtown. It looked like the lunch crowd was pretty good that day - lots of Devon construction workers and high school kids on a trip to ???? downtown.

That doesn't mean that Coney Island has a place in those plans, even if they will end up saving one of the many sound historic structures on that block.

That's a completely different issue than historic preservation.

In fact, if the owners got serious about renovating that entire building -- which is badly needed -- I'm not sure Coney Island could afford the rent.

Sometimes losing old tenants is a consequence of saving/renovating.

Pete, the tenants are the owners at Coney Island.

Didn't know they owned that building!

Well, even less reason to worry about how Preftakes plan might affect them. In fact, it's hard to see how any improvements on that block wouldn't help them both in terms of the business and property value.

Didn't know they owned that building!

Well, even less reason to worry about how Preftakes plan might affect them. In fact, it's hard to see how any improvements on that block wouldn't help them both in terms of the business and property value.
Except if they are barely getting buy, and don't have money to advertise, what happens when their property value skyrockets? That means their property TAX goes up, and probably won't have money to pay the increased taxes, and still go belly up.

Except if they are barely getting buy, and don't have money to advertise, what happens when their property value skyrockets? That means their property TAX goes up, and probably won't have money to pay the increased taxes, and still go belly up.

And they make a bundle on their property thanks to increased value....making way more than they could rolling hotdogs for many years.

Except if they are barely getting buy, and don't have money to advertise, what happens when their property value skyrockets? That means their property TAX goes up, and probably won't have money to pay the increased taxes, and still go belly up.

and property tax hikes on existing buildings are capped each year

don't know if it is the final plan .... but from the looks of it the sidewalks along Robinson between Park and Sheridan are not going to be redone at the same time the street is redone ...

if so this is another downgrade of P180

That would suck as its the heart of the CBD. Robinson needs to be done correctly.

This is a photo from a few days ago:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7059/6821109988_a0159c41bb_b.jpg

Here are some recent photos and despite some frustrations with the fiscal management, I have to say the work being done is extremely nice.

Did anyone go to James Burnett's presentation last week?

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7194/6820979908_6e2f20b6bd_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7037/6967843525_1cbc41f5c7_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7186/6967134581_8c6b716a98_b.jpg

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7065/6821032600_9b383cbee2_b.jpg

http://farm7.staticflickr.com/6078/6079940702_81c7a1a3f6_b.jpg

Pete, maybe I'm missing something but I don't see anything resembling bike lanes on any of those streets. Where they supposed to be there originally?