Here are the budgeted non-street items that are yet to start:

$5 million for Civic Center Park
$.75 million for climate-controlled walkway through City Center East garage
$1.75 million for pedestrian access east of City Center East garage
$1.5 million for Arts Council Plaza (directly south of the up-in-the-air Stage Center)
$1 million for Arena/Reno Plaza

That's $10 million that could be used for other priorities.

I have heard nothing regarding the plazas. Those were not included in any public meetings or presentations. Epic fail!

So, anyone know roughly how much of that 10 million for fluff would be needed to get rid of the
two way / one way / two way roads left there in the CBD?

Epic fail is right!

via Steve

Yet Another Update on the One Way Street Conversions (http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/10/yet-another-update-on-the-one-way-street-conversions/)

Good for the council...

http://newsok.com/downtown-park-makeover-is-opposed-by-oklahoma-city-council-members/article/3649051

I just saw that article.

And right, good for the council and especially Ed Shadid. What clearly is happening here is that city staff (Couch & Wegner) are being pressured to hurry these things through and also to set strange priorities.

Nobody worried about what happened when until the city managers finally admitted just a few months ago they were out of money. As I pointed out previously, there are $10 million in non-street projects still left to tackle and IMO pretty much all of them should take a backseat to getting Hudson finished and probably to EKG as well.

It's clear councilmen and other decision makers read this site and Steve's blog. Their points are lifted straight from both places and were only raised after we started discussing the specifics.


I would suggest a compromise of providing a few hundred grand to spruce up the existing parks and put them both at the end of the line for P180.

I would also suggest that the city staff stop whatever they are doing and present a comprehensive report on how much money is still available and what projects remain. The, proper priorities need to be set. Things like the Arts Council Plaza and the Reno/Sheridan Plaza can go back to the end of the line, too, as far as I'm concerned.

I'm less than impressed with Couch. Always seems to have excuses. Hope they get this P180 stuff turned around.

++++

I just saw that article.

And right, good for the council and especially Ed Shadid. What clearly is happening here is that city staff (Couch & Wegner) are being pressured to hurry these things through and also to set strange priorities.

Nobody worried about what happened when until the city managers finally admitted just a few months ago they were out of money. As I pointed out previously, there are $10 million in non-street projects still left to tackle and IMO pretty much all of them should take a backseat to getting Hudson finished and probably to EKG as well.

It's clear councilmen and other decision makers read this site and Steve's blog. Their points are lifted straight from both places and were only raised after we started discussing the specifics.


I would suggest a compromise of providing a few hundred grand to spruce up the existing parks and put them both at the end of the line for P180.

I would also suggest that the city staff stop whatever they are doing and present a comprehensive report on how much money is still available and what projects remain. The, proper priorities need to be set. Things like the Arts Council Plaza and the Reno/Sheridan Plaza can go back to the end of the line, too, as far as I'm concerned.

this times 100 ... the bicentenial park should be an update not a build from scratch

this times 100 ... the bicentenial park should be an update not a build from scratch
Maybe is is a good opportunity for Urban Neighbors to be vocal on an important downtown issue. Has UN released any sort of official statement on this issue or P180 shortfalls?

Good for the council...

http://newsok.com/downtown-park-makeover-is-opposed-by-oklahoma-city-council-members/article/3649051

Bully for the council. Perhaps some of the park concepts can be transferred down to the river where they would be a better fit.

Either the city staff is totally incompetent or they are being bullied by VIPs behind the scenes. I love what Devon has done for our city -- it is amazing! But we still live in a democracy and it is unconscionable to set aside important infrastructual improvements for anachronistic park improvements. Thank God Shadid got elected. His voice on the council has been one of the most important developments in our city in years. He is a fearless and principled individual, leadership this city has needed. By contrast, I imagine the opponent he defeated would have been Prince Rubber Stamp.

On another point, it is funny to me how the good ole boys may change faces over time, but they all act the same as their predecessors when given access to the power and the goodies.

To add: whichever public official who openly advocates having an important downtown artery remain a two-way, one-way, two-way street to overspend on unneeded city park enhancements should be summarily fired for dereliction of duty. It is beyond absurd.

I though I was crazy because I actually enjoy the park! I do desire for it to be spruced up, but It is not an area that needs millions pumped in to make it a modern marvel.

I though I was crazy because I actually enjoy the park! I do desire for it to be spruced up, but It is not an area that needs millions pumped in to make it a modern marvel.

This. Just better maintenance, some power washing and a few outdoor bistro tables and chess/checkers tables, ala Bryant Park in NYC would do wonders for this park, and be MUCH cheaper.

Plus, the existing monuments and big trees could be preserved.


And just to be clear, it's not city staff that is setting priorities for P180 expenditures. That comes from the Devon Implementation Committee (Couch, Nichols, Beffort, William Bell from BancFirst) and the OKC Economic Development Trust (the modern incarnation of OCURA).

It's unclear how these two committees came up with their priorities, although at least initially the projects first tackled were scheduled around other construction. But once it became clear they would not have enough money to finish much of the original scope, there was the decision made to shelve several of the street projects and proceed with Bicentennial Park and a bunch of other park/plaza projects.

As I've stated before, it seems the city council was not fully aware that these streets weren't going to be finished; the budget issues were only recently addressed and even then they were told the remainder would get done, glossing over the fact they have absolutely no idea where that money is going to come from.

I do think the city staff (Couch & Wegner) and the two sub-committees did a very poor job of communicating the issues they were facing, being honest about the budget and setting proper priorities.

Either the city staff is totally incompetent or they are being bullied by VIPs behind the scenes. I love what Devon has done for our city -- it is amazing! But we still live in a democracy and it is unconscionable to set aside important infrastructual improvements for anachronistic park improvements. Thank God Shadid got elected. His voice on the council has been one of the most important developments in our city in years. He is a fearless and principled individual, leadership this city has needed. By contrast, I imagine the opponent he defeated would have been Prince Rubber Stamp.

On another point, it is funny to me how the good ole boys may change faces over time, but they all act the same as their predecessors when given access to the power and the goodies.

I know it is really popular to slam these faceless VIPs, but what indication do you have that anyone in particular outside of the staff or city employees or the implementation committee are driving the priorities, and specifically the park priority? Is this about reporting something that is real, or just a chance to rail against people you resent?

I know it is really popular to slam these faceless VIPs, but what indication do you have that anyone in particular outside of the staff or city employees or the implementation committee are driving the priorities, and specifically the park priority? Is this about reporting something that is real, or just a chance to rail against people you resent?

I've explained the process in a post above, with the people involved in the decision making.

We don't have to speculate on who is involved.

Pete, I think you do a marvelous job of staying objective and fair and of explaining how things work and who is responsible for what. I wish everyone would listen to you closer and understand what you are saying. We need strong transparent systems for operations and even stronger accountability in this city and less boogey-man accusations.

Plus, the existing monuments and big trees could be preserved.


And just to be clear, it's not city staff that is setting priorities for P180 expenditures. That comes from the Devon Implementation Committee (Couch, Nichols, Beffort, William Bell from BancFirst) and the OKC Economic Development Trust (the modern incarnation of OCURA).

It's unclear how these two committees came up with their priorities, although at least initially the projects first tackled were scheduled around other construction. But once it became clear they would not have enough money to finish much of the original scope, there was the decision made to shelve several of the street projects and proceed with Bicentennial Park and a bunch of other park/plaza projects.

As I've stated before, it seems the city council was not fully aware that these streets weren't going to be finished; the budget issues were only recently addressed and even then they were told the remainder would get done, glossing over the fact they have absolutely no idea where that money is going to come from.

I do think the city staff (Couch & Wegner) and the two sub-committees did a very poor job of communicating the issues they were facing, being honest about the budget and setting proper priorities.

Pete, my observation has been that it is city staff setting priorities, and then those priorities were being submitted to the committees and getting approval.

That's interesting, Steve. Especially since Couch sits on the Devon committee.

Still, the whole purpose of those committees was to provide an oversight function, which is why all approvals went through them before submitted to City Council for final approval.

Then they aren't providing much oversight if we have two-way streets going to one-way back to two-way while millions are spent on parks.

The staff setting priorities makes sense (not sensible or proper). Once the overall project was defined, if the perspective is only from a work flow project management standpoint they are just sequencing things and their priorities are for scheduling and expediency rather than for the bigger picture. In that context, all projects are viewed as equal priority and scheduled not by value or by public opinion, but merely by which projects impact each other and which sequencing causes the least headaches in scheduling assets, closing streets, waiting for outside services to be rendered, etc. It is up to the council and the committees to actually give priorities based on the bigger picture and the staff to merely advise and execute. If the council doesn't do its job then they keep going until they are stopped, redirected, or run out of money. Classic deferral of responsibilities. Everyone can point a finger at everyone else.

Steve's article was very telling, but just watch the council video to get a real feel for it.

And I mean the tenor with particularly White and Marrs. If you ever watch these videos before, they were quite perturbed with how the process has been handled and understandably so.

Jeff is right. I'd add that Ed wasn't too happy either. Couldn't quite be sure, but it seemed as if McAtee was restraining some unhappiness, but wasn't as vocal about it. I count four clear votes against a rapid move forward with the park. I don't count any clear votes for it. What happens from here depends on how much the council hears from constituents, and what they say.

I will be calling Macatee, but he's like talking to a brick wall with chattering teeth.

,,, setting priorities for P180 expenditures. That comes from the Devon Implementation Committee (Couch, Nichols, Beffort, William Bell from BancFirst) and the OKC Economic Development Trust (the modern incarnation of OCURA). ...


Pete, my observation has been that it is city staff setting priorities, and then those priorities were being submitted to the committees and getting approval.

from the City's website:

http://okc.gov/council/index.html

A City Charter amendment in 1927 established the Council-Manager form of government. In this form of City government, an elected Mayor and City Council set policy and conduct City business. The Mayor and Council appoint a professional City Manager to carry out the day-to-day operations of City government.

http://okc.gov/mgr/index.html

The City Manager coordinates and directs City activities, carries out policies set by the City Council and exercises control over all aspects of employment of City employees except those appointed by the City Council.

The City Manager presents the annual budget to the Mayor and Council and provides professional recommendations to help the City Council develop policy. The Public Information & Marketing Office, and MAPS Project Office are divisions of the City Manager's Department.

On one hand the Council is supposed to be setting the policy and he makes sure it is carried out, yet on the other hand he recommends the policy to the Council to begin with??? And to borrow a line from Doug, on the third hand he is on the various oversight committees/boards (again "guiding" the Council's policy)???

Well...

Design review committee approves downtown Oklahoma City park makeover (http://newsok.com/design-review-committee-approves-downtown-oklahoma-city-park-makeover/article/3649650#ixzz1mc9dQBps)

Oklahoma City's Downtown Design Review Committee unanimously approved revised plans for a makeover of the Civic Center park despite protests that it will eliminate decades-old trees and may be too modern for the site.

BY STEVE LACKMEYER slackmeyer@opubco.com
Published: February 17, 2012

The Downtown Design Review Committee unanimously approved revised plans for a makeover of the Civic Center park despite protests it will eliminate decades-old trees and may be too modern for the site.

:/
Oh well, We'll get use to dancing fountains and elvis music, lol. I wonder if they can put a statue in my living room and a tree in my yard?

What did the fountain say to the statute? ..... I'll have a blue Christmas without you.

City Council still has to approve the funds which they are very unlikely to do, at least in the short-term.

What did the fountain say to the statute? ..... I'll have a blue Christmas without you.

and I thought the answer was "are you just going stand there and do nothing".

I wanted to clarify something about the remaining funds for P180.

I had stated earlier that there was $1.75 million budgeted for pedestrian improvements to the area east of the City Center East Garage. I didn't realize that OCURA (and thus the City) own the area shown below in yellow. It's a mess now; a hodgepodge of odd parking, concrete and a small amount of grass just south of Corporate Tower.

I'm sure the plan is to completely rework this area with hardscape and landscape.

The area in pink is the $750K P180 project that will be an enclosed walkway between Devon and the skybridge that currently connects City Center East Garage to Oklahoma Tower and thus the Underground system. The walkway will be on the 3rd floor of the garage.

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/project180ped.jpg

Pete, I've walked that yellow area a few times over the last year. It's a reasonable direct foot route between the east side of the Courthouse and the Sooner Express stop on Robinson. The sidewalk and lawn parts are not shabby at all. The parking on the east side of the garage is simply parking. Unless nearly all those funds are going into the skywalk (and that may be the case), I'm not sure what else they would be doing to significantly enhance the spaces between the buildings.

Thanks for that input, Kevin.

I know the area directly west of the garage is parking and I think that is one thing they want to change.

I'm not sure of the exact plans as nothing has been submitted to the Downtown Design Review Committee as of yet and I'm not sure when they plan to start.

Well...

Design review committee approves downtown Oklahoma City park makeover (http://newsok.com/design-review-committee-approves-downtown-oklahoma-city-park-makeover/article/3649650#ixzz1mc9dQBps)

Oklahoma City's Downtown Design Review Committee unanimously approved revised plans for a makeover of the Civic Center park despite protests that it will eliminate decades-old trees and may be too modern for the site.

BY STEVE LACKMEYER slackmeyer@opubco.com
Published: February 17, 2012

The Downtown Design Review Committee unanimously approved revised plans for a makeover of the Civic Center park despite protests it will eliminate decades-old trees and may be too modern for the site.

The proposed park is on this morning's city council agenda, XI. City Manager Reports, Item B: Presentation of Bicentennial Park Design. It's near the end of the meeting, slightly before the "Citizens To Be Heard" section of the agenda. This should be an interesting conversation, given remarks made by various council members last week.

The agenda at the city's website shows 2 PDF files ... the 1st is a 1 page letter from the city manager which simply reads, "Jim Crosby with Planning Design Group will give a presentation" and the 2nd is a PDF file merely saying that the file is "to be submitted." Guess we'll have to wait until the meeting.

I sent an e-mail letter to the Mayor and council members expressing my concerns with this design. I encourage others to do the same one way or the other. Public input is sorely needed with this project.

Well, if a pair of Tuesdays will serve as a comparison, it was in like a lion and out like a lamb. No action was taken today but White was the only nay-sayer today and he did so rather quietly for him, Marrs having changed his position. I don't think Shadid was even present, though I may be mistaken. Today was only a presentation, and no vote will be taken until next Tuesday.

Shadid is out of the country for Anthony's funeral. The powers that be are working their magic.

Shadid is out of the country for Anthony's funeral. The powers that be are working their magic.

I think that's a bit out of line.

there was no council vote today on this project ..only an update ... the city staff plan was to have the city council vote today and then the EDT vote tomorrow .. the council shut that down ..and now the EDT will vote tomorrow and the council next tuesday

I think that's a bit out of line.

Can you clarify how you interpreted my comment as out of line? Just to clarify, the comment about Shadid being away for the funeral is completely separate from my comment about the powers that be. If you interpreted some sort of connection between the two that would indeed be out of line and horribly offensive on many levels.

There has been a lot of discussion on this thread about how the Devon Implementation Committee has operated without much public input or council involvement. The priorities they have established in Project 180 seem "out of line" with the community's interest in making downtown streets functional.

I don't believe there is a vast conspiracy here, but I don't know how to explain the dramatic shift in the council's opinion from one week to the next. In watching the video from today's council meeting, it appears they are settling for this design in recognition that the "train has left" and there is nothing they can do about it at this point.

is there a before/after map on the downtown street construction involved with P180? In regards to the changes from 1-way to 2-way.

Thanks

krisb,

To me it sounded as if you were making a joke at the expense of the recent passing of Anthony Shadid. If that was not the intent, I apologize for my knee-jerk reaction.

BDK,
I can see how it was interpreted that way. That was certainly not my intent. Apology accepted.

...I don't believe there is a vast conspiracy here, but I don't know how to explain the dramatic shift in the council's opinion from one week to the next. In watching the video from today's council meeting, it appears they are settling for this design in recognition that the "train has left" and there is nothing they can do about it at this point.
What i gleaned from Steve's article while the DDRC expressed concerns they approved the modified design unanimously (the arch and spinning towers are gone, with assurances that the new design is "truer to the park's original landscape"). These changes may have been sufficient enough to turn the Council from being unanimously against it to what you saw in Tuesday's meeting???

The spinner towers and the arch were the only things that I liked in the original design. The problem was how the parking surrounded and framed the periphery of the park. They needed to look at the things they did right with the Myriad Gardens (good periphery, well-planned, functional, and landmark anchor pieces). They did the opposite by ignoring what was wrong with the planning and at the periphery and removing the focal points from this proposed park.

The Myriad Gardens was redesigned by world-class landscape architects.

As far as I can tell, both firms working on the Civic Center have exactly zero experience with urban parks.

i like the new design ... (didn't really mind the old one) .... my problem is that p180 money is being used on this park ..and curenty hudson is going to be left 2 way 1way 2 way for an undetermined about of time ... and other streets are going to be finished "later"

i like the new design ... (didn't really mind the old one) .... my problem is that p180 money is being used on this park ..and curenty hudson is going to be left 2 way 1way 2 way for an undetermined about of time ... and other streets are going to be finished "later"
Again, has Urban Neighbors come out with an official stance or press release on the matter? If not, why not?

http://newsok.com/questions-about-project-180-priorities-go-unanswered/article/3652900

http://newsok.com/work-will-proceed-on-civic-center-park-in-oklahoma-city-despite-questions/article/3653204

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/28/a-question-of-priorities-again-no-answer/

http://newsok.com/questions-about-project-180-priorities-go-unanswered/article/3652900

http://newsok.com/work-will-proceed-on-civic-center-park-in-oklahoma-city-despite-questions/article/3653204

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2012/02/28/a-question-of-priorities-again-no-answer/

Good reporting, Steve. It's patently ridiculous that the muckety mucks were able to get to key Council members and ram this through while we're going to be left with key unfinished street projects. The article doesn't mention Meg Salyer, but she may be toast in the next election cycle.

Great job Steve.

I'm too angry now to post all my thoughts but will say we have the same process and city employees in charge of all the big-budget projects in MAPS3 and if something doesn't change, we are going to end up in the exact same situation many more times.

The one obvious thing that needs to change pronto is this: City Council is presented quarterly financial reports against ORIGINAL budgets and time lines. This wasn't done with P180 until it was too late to do anything about it and even then the information was presented misleadingly, i.e. labeling things as "future work" when they were completely out of money. Or saying the scope of the project hadn't changed yet almost 40% of the work was not going to be complete with their budgeted dollars.

Great job Steve.

I'm too angry now to post all my thoughts but will say we have the same process and city employees in charge of all the big-budget projects in MAPS3 and if something doesn't change, we are going to end up in the exact same situation many more times.

The one obvious thing that needs to change pronto is this: City Council is presented quarterly financial reports against ORIGINAL budgets and time lines. This wasn't done with P180 until it was too late to do anything about it and even then the information was presented misleadingly, i.e. labeling things as "future work" when they were completely out of money. Or saying the scope of the project hadn't changed yet almost 40% of the work was not going to be complete with their budgeted dollars.

one good thing is that the maps 3 subcommitte's (or at least some of them) have a much closer eye on those projects and those dollars ..

True, but the committees are completely reliant on city staff when it comes to actually bidding the projects and managing the construction budgets and schedules.

They need to get real reports rather than the "everything is fine -- it will all work out" fluff presented by Eric Wegner and Jim Couch and aided by the mayor.

I do believe Jeff may have some experience with dealing with "stakeholders" and how what I'm seeing with Project 180 may or may not be taking place with MAPS 3.

I do believe Jeff may have some experience with dealing with "stakeholders" and how what I'm seeing with Project 180 may or may not be taking place with MAPS 3.

if you are refering to the core to shore "study" ... then yes those "stakeholders" at least were named .. and the subcommittee was/is able to craft a response

Ever since the first MAPS campaign was approved, city leaders did an outstanding job of planning, communicating and executing, even when there were problems. Remember the "Finish MAPS Right" effort that briefly extended MAPS 1 when costs exceeded the budget a little bit? City leaders had earned the trust of the people, and were rewarded with lattitude, plus MAPS 2, MAPS 3 and MAPS for Kids.

That has all been lost. Plans are being changed, there's no communication either within city hall or to the people, and execution has bogged down. The CBD is ripped apart and no-one seems to be in charge.

It wasn't that long ago we were pointing to Tulsa as an example of disfunctional municipal leadership. What the hell happened?