Mike just about anything is better than what we have now. I dont want better I want THE BEST. Also please address the particular questions I have brought forth. Also will the FD attempt to third pary bill insurance companies for reimbursement are just go with their taxpayer funding only?

Mustang,
Yes, the FD would use a third party service to bill any insurance possible. Just as EMSA currently does. This is one reason they went to the MEDUSA tablets was to increase the billing reimbursements.

Contrary to Marshe - they would be part of the FD...not standalone. That's always been something he's been against beacuse it means dual training and he feels the city wouldn't compensate the person for that properly. You can't make both arguements man, you have to pick one.

As for the assets, no the city does NOT own them all. In fact if you read anything at all, it expressly says how the city does NOT own them all and that should the city leave the agreement, such things would be decided in court. Read with your eyes, not your ears.

You'll see an elimination of dual services for a paramedic being in the engine AND an ambulance at the same call. You won't see both parties responding to calls either. Right now you might see an engine with a medic respond to say a house call. You'll see only the party needed...which should result in cost savings from reduced fuel expenses (which is big right now). When you find the synergies between the groups and REALLY integrate them, it works out much better. There are countless cities out there with combined services that are hugely successful. And what we have now, is not at all.

Bomber- glad you have a smidge of knowledge in this area but it's painfully obvious you're not in the inner circle of whats going on.

If the FD takes over, the ambulance employees will not be FF's. It's still undetermined on what if any cross training will take place but they will not be allowed to enter structures that are on fire because they have not had to go through the pension physical, physical agility testing, recruit school, etc. They will be OKC ambulance employees managed by the FD. It is also undetermined whether or not they will be AFSME or IAFF employees. Either one doesn't really matter to me.

The equipment, ambulances, buildings etc. currently used by EMSA (the Trust) are owned by the city of Okc by virtue of the city owning the trust. If the trust dissolves, the assets are forfeited to the city; in this case the western division of Okc. The only thing the for profit company Paramedics Plus owns is the disposable goods (bandaids, kerlix, fluids) and the ability to schedule their employees. If you want to split hairs, No the city doesn't own the EMSA equipment; the trust does; which is owned by OKC in the west and Tulsa in the east. Either way if the trust goes away the ambulances, computers, LP15's, buildings etc. all go to their respective city.

System status management may or may not go away. You may have some form of it still left to provide coverage. This is another topic that remains to be completely worked out. But the one thing that I think we all agree upon is that the current system is very much outdated and flawed and should go away. It will be interesting to see how much money the For Profit company (Paramedics Plus), Steve Williamson and Frank Gresh will throw at the city to try and keep their jobs. We've been witness to all of these parties lying through their teeth and twisting the facts for many years to save their cushy jobs. They don't have patient care or the best interest of the citizens of Okc in mind, they have their pocket books in mind.

AMEN on for profit healthcare. Personally, I feel like it was the beginning of the end when the industry started deregulation.

The Gazette article suggests that no movement on this will happen unless Tulsa and the smaller towns outside the metro (Piedmont, Yukon, Mustang, etc.) unanimously the decision to stop EMSA at the same time OKC does. Anyone know where Tulsa sits on this?

Making contingency plans for all those smaller suburbs seems like it'd be a big impediment to OKC making any headway on this.

And we repeat the same story that has happened the last dozen times the topic has come up for the city. Until OKC is prepared to act unilaterally, it won't happen. The other cities like Peidmont don't have options available if EMSA leaves.

Just got back from a sick call, there were 8 calls that were EMS related on on rig computer. Emsa had no ambulances available. I know it's hot, but dang zero ambulances at 1100 on a Wednesday!

Once again, yesterday morning at 0900 there were zero ambulances available!

Once again, yesterday morning at 0900 there were zero ambulances available!

Just curious, do you think most fire fighters agree that the Department/City should take control of the ambulance service. I do, and hope it happens ASAP.

Can't speak for most! I do get a overall feeling that we could do better at providing this service to our citizens.

Well der. I'm not going to say the EMSA paramedics aren't able to do their job, but the resources they are provided with don't allow them to do it properly. And when you get paid crap, you get high turnover. That typically means your employees aren't doing as good of a job as they should be becuse they lack the experience in the company to do so.

You should check out the council meeting on line. The CEO of Emsa made his proposal for Emsa to keep the ambulance service. He did not enjoy being questioned by Dr. Shadid. He avoided answering several of his questions. Things did not start well when Dr. Shadid's first question was whether the top 4 employees at Emsa made a combined total of $765,000.00!

Honestly, I think it is time for Oklahoma City to switch to a Metro Fire and EMS System. Think of all the money that could be saved from consolidation. You would have the best trained fire and ems service in the region if not the nation. Several of the metro departments have outstanding training officers, training facilities and training resources. You could save a bundle when it is time to order new equipment and new trucks. Not to mention they could be well paid.

After all I think most people want the best of the best to respond when they call 911. I feel like I have that were I live now in Midwest City. My neighbor collapsed a couple of weeks ago from heat exhaustion. We could not get to him to come around so we had to call 911. MWCFD was on scene in 2 minutes, Midwest EMS was on scene in 4 minutes, police and a secondary engine company were on scene at 6 minutes after. The best I had witnessed in my time living in Oklahoma City was about 4 minutes for fire, 8 minutes for EMSA and 15 for police.

The only downfall is the local hospital. I am hoping INTEGRIS or Mercy will step up and buy the place one of these days. Both have an excellent track record of buying facilites that were considered dumps and turned them into top notch operations.

Ambulance alert

Debate over EMSA’s future heats up at City Council.

http://www.okgazette.com/oklahoma/article-12748-ambulance-alert.html

Mike - this is the part that was mentioned before that highlights the point yet again, that the city does NOT NOT NOT flat out own the assets. The city could still stand the chance of not ending up with anything by opting out.

"Failure of dissolution and simply opting out means the trust could retain all of the assets serving the area, and could result in litigation."

What that means, is that the cities (both OKC AND Tulsa) have to aggree at the countil level, that has to been approved by the board (and assuming the councils agree, then the board should since it's made up of residents from both cities that have no ties to EMSA), AND the governor (and I don't really know why the governer has any play in this). So if OKC goes it alone and opts out, the trust still exists and would be just as likely to shift it's assets to the Tulsa area. They wouldn't have to buy an amulance for 20 years with that amount of backup. Not to mention that amount of supplies in each vehicle that don't go bad. Honestly, they'd probably sell everything off. And do you think they would want to sell to OKC...yeah right.

So while I'm not trying to be difficult, i'm pointing out the reason why we haven't seen this dissolution happen yet. There are so many obstacles in the way and far too much risk unless both cities are fully on board. And at that point, the suburbs that would be left without coverage would also have to scramble. You'd really have to work out a phased approach to the dissolution, otherwise you'd be in a very sad state of affairs.

I have read this forum for some time now. The general public has no clue what EMSA is. A starting pay for an EMSA EMT is 9.45 and Paramedic 11.45. Sad if you ask me. I am sadden that OKC will probably not change and stay with EMSA due to the ballsless city council. Mars and Shadid are the only 2 who actually listen to the facts. The other city council wont change due to the fact that fire went against them for MAPS 3. They dont want to assume the risk and give fire more power. So my hats off to Mr. Mars and Dr. Shadid. Thank you for trying. I hope that those two can convince the other city council the facts.

Facts: How many time is EMSA at a level 0? Almost once per day. Last saturday level zero for 30 minutes. Extended call times. Start from Edmond to s.w. 20th and Macurthar. Sad sad sad to respond from. Fire was on scene for a very long time.

High turnover rate: Yes young person job or not per Williamson, its a very high turnover. Since '06 more than 500 employees. Fire had less because very few quit, they retire.

Snow: EMSA doesnt put more rigs on the streets, in fact they modify the calls. Such as a pri 2 bs call such as a chronic problem EMSA doesnt have to respond to during the snow and ice storms. But fire most of the time does.

Its sad that Williamson who is the President and CEO of EMSA is clueless about the sub contractor Paramedics Plus. Arrogant if you ask me. Hes a Tulsan and wouldnt know where OKC is if it bit him in the ass.

I will be happy to answer any questions anyone has about EMSA to let the truth out. Many Employees just want change for the better. Better pay, benefits, uniforms and such. We understand we would not be fire fighters but city employees.

Sincerely,
A medic

What I remember hearing about Tulsa, was when they laid firefighters off a couple of years ago was they would give the ambulance service to the firefighters at the next opportunity. The firefighters have been begging for it for years. A good time to invest in the fire dept.

If you watched the council meeting you would see what a pathetic presentation Emsa made. A seriously sad attempt to save their profit margin. That 5 million plus the 764,000.00 the top 4 exec's get can go along way toward providing care.

If you think OKC is just going to let those assets just walk away, I believe you would be sorely mistaken!!

It's not a matter of LETTING them walk away. It's a matter of it becoming a litigation issue. You don't think EMSA is going to go quietly do you? They set up so many barriers to dissolving the trust, that getting this process done is a matter of a miracle more than anything. Everything was set up in favor of EMSA rather than the city.

I'd still like to slap the person that thought EMSA was a good idea.

More facts:

Mutual Aid: per Williamson EMSA mutual aids for us. The truth is the opposite. When EMSA is at low levels EMSA still will respond to Moore, Del City, and MWC. MWC has no problems asking for help. EMSA won't ask for help even if a call is dispatched at I-40 and pebbly, we will run the call at low levels rather asking for help. From 23rd and Broadway extention to I 40 and peebly to run a cardiac arrest. The most life threatening thing EMSA does and they did not mutual aid it.

5 million goes to Paramedics Plus in Texas. The revenue is always there yet they want to cut benefits. Sending money to another state l
Pffft. I vote to change the name from EMSA to Paramedics Plus.

Fire take over: if Fire were to take over EMSA employees would be running the call under Fires command and the response time would be cut in half. Fire responds in 4 minutes and EMSA 7+. After EMSA meets the average call volume based on last year calls the additional calls that day aren't factored into compliance.

More facts coming