I am more and more beginning to think this is true, that if you look at all of the cities in Central Oklahoma including OKC, that Norman stands out as the most enlightened, the most sustainable, the most urban, and the best-planned.

ESPECIALLY if you throw out the UNP quagmire..

And I fully expect people to balk at calling Norman a suburb, and I didn't mean it, just that it is A city in Central Oklahoma not named OKC.

Including OKC proper, Norman is the most sustainable?

I need a good laugh, Nick. Thanks

I dunno if it is the 'most' sustainable, but just as a fer instance, the Norman folk dinna demo the closed for safety concerns Vista bldg. because the land would make a better park. Sure, the work has been slow,a nd sure, floor 6 has a still unknown future, but it seems 1-5 have commitments for occupancy come next year when the renovations are completed.

Of course, not so long ago a few places were thrashed to add parking, but hey, the mural is killer

When you say Norman, do you mean the OU campus and immediate surroundings...or Norman? Because outside of the main campus, it's pretty much like every other suburb...shopping centers, car dealerships, big box retailers, cookie-cutter houses.

"Enlightened" - No
Sustainable and well planned - Yes

Doesn't the nature of it being a true college town help quite a bit in these regards?

The American Association of Enlightened Suburbs rankings that came out last year had Norman listed as the 24th Most Enlightened Suburb.........

The American Association of Enlightened Suburbs

is that even a real thing? I googled it and came up with nothing..

if it's real then :lol2:

Spartan, are you a member of Guild of America's Enlightened Suburbs?

The short answer to your question is "no." There are an awful lot of things wrong with Norman, but no-one is allowed to talk about them. When your newspaper is worse than the Oklahoman you are not good. So far this week alone the OKC paper has covered five Norman stories not in the Transcript. They cancelled their forum because folk kept bringing up stuff that makes the mayor and the university president uncomfortable. Just TRY "adding a comment." "Have an opinion? Want to express it? Come to our blogs." Yay! 6 blogs about sports and bicycles. One letter every 30 days. Good discussion of the issues? Not in Norman. We know what they think we need to know when they decide to tell us. So, I guess the long answer is no, also.

The short answer to your question is "no." There are an awful lot of things wrong with Norman, but no-one is allowed to talk about them. When your newspaper is worse than the Oklahoman you are not good. So far this week alone the OKC paper has covered five Norman stories not in the Transcript. They cancelled their forum because folk kept bringing up stuff that makes the mayor and the university president uncomfortable. Just TRY "adding a comment." "Have an opinion? Want to express it? Come to our blogs." Yay! 6 blogs about sports and bicycles. One letter every 30 days. Good discussion of the issues? Not in Norman. We know what they think we need to know when they decide to tell us. So, I guess the long answer is no, also.

I haven't subscribed to the Transcript for years but have to wonder what could be said that would make David Boren uncomfortable. He's been around long enough to have seen and heard it all. I doubt that anything really makes him uncomfortable.

I haven't subscribed to the Transcript for years but have to wonder what could be said that would make David Boren uncomfortable. He's been around long enough to have seen and heard it all. I doubt that anything really makes him uncomfortable.

Bringing up Male lover boys would make him uncomfortable.

That sounds like a libelous statement. Do you have something to back that up or reason to think that the Transcript would accept a letter alleging something like that? Legitimate newspapers aren't going to accept tabloid type letters like that without something more than innuendo. That type of rumor has been around since he was in politics and no proof of any kind has ever been presented.

That sounds like a libelous statement. Do you have something to back that up or reason to think that the Transcript would accept a letter alleging something like that? Legitimate newspapers aren't going to accept tabloid type letters like that without something more than innuendo. That type of rumor has been around since he was in politics and no proof of any kind has ever been presented.

Some will always insult those more succesfull then they could ever dream of being. If he heard it, it came from his 4th cousion on his 3rd ex-Great Grandmothers side, twice removed.

It was sarcasm you moron.

Not sure if it proves enlightenment but the Main st area (especially headed east) is very cool...Definitely done right

I am more and more beginning to think this is true, that if you look at all of the cities in Central Oklahoma including OKC, that Norman stands out as the most enlightened, the most sustainable, the most urban, and the best-planned.

ESPECIALLY if you throw out the UNP quagmire..

And I fully expect people to balk at calling Norman a suburb, and I didn't mean it, just that it is A city in Central Oklahoma not named OKC.

I think so too. I love the fact that there's a real thriving network of bars and pubs in Norman... not a bunch of Henry Hudsons crap like in the rest of the metro. I like the fact that Norman parks actually have trees instead of the barren wasteland that is a typical OKC park. Campus Corner and Main Street are great areas to walk and shop. The neighborhoods have sidewalks. Old houses are painted and taken care of instead of looking like dilapidated blown apart gangland safe houses. And if you feel like taking part in the suburban nightmare we have 24th Ave.

It could be better, but most neighborhoods are far and above what is typical in the metro.

It was sarcasm you moron.

When you want to use sarcasm it needs to be a little clearer. Your post was just a blunt statement with no hint of sarcasm even if that's what you meant. We can't see your smile when you're typing. Even if you were being sarcastic, it was in poor taste.

LMAO. Needs to be clearer? Says who, you the almighty forum patrolman? I brought up a topic so off base and untrue, I expected you and anyone else to understand that it is all tounge and cheek. But I guess I expected too much from you. And even if I was being serious, which I wasn't, you need to realize that this is an internet forum. There are things said much worse directly to posters on forums, and people do not react like you did, because they realizee that its on the damn internet. But maybe you are just old and out of touch with these kind of things.

:fighting4

LMAO. Needs to be clearer? Says who, you the almighty forum patrolman? I brought up a topic so off base and untrue, I expected you and anyone else to understand that it is all tounge and cheek. But I guess I expected too much from you. And even if I was being serious, which I wasn't, you need to realize that this is an internet forum. There are things said much worse directly to posters on forums, and people do not react like you did, because they realizee that its on the damn internet. But maybe you are just old and out of touch with these kind of things.

Age has no bearing on decorum. And being an internet forum doesn't mean anything goes. This isn't a chat room. The topic you mentioned has been brought up by others in other places who believed it to be true so how would we know what you think when you just make a very plain statement with no hint at humor. And if worse things are said to other posters the moderators are very good about keeping that in line if it goes overboard. You may not realize that minors read this forum and some semblance of reasonable language and civility is called for. As for me being out of touch, I assure you I have seen, heard, and been involved in things that would make your toes curl. Don't assume anything about me.

I think so too. I love the fact that there's a real thriving network of bars and pubs in Norman... not a bunch of Henry Hudsons crap like in the rest of the metro. I like the fact that Norman parks actually have trees instead of the barren wasteland that is a typical OKC park. Campus Corner and Main Street are great areas to walk and shop. The neighborhoods have sidewalks. Old houses are painted and taken care of instead of looking like dilapidated blown apart gangland safe houses. And if you feel like taking part in the suburban nightmare we have 24th Ave.

It could be better, but most neighborhoods are far and above what is typical in the metro.

Exactly.

Also look at how we raised permit fees a few years ago to actually reign in the home building mania.
Also look at how the city will likely not expand any more beyond its current footprint, because of the current land use plan which is actually followed, unlike in OKC.
Also look at how we are moving forward with restoring even more urban corridors, such as Porter Ave.
Also look at how things like fair trade coffee, buy local, free range beef, etc actually mean something in Norman.
Also look at how the Norman City Council passed a resolution condemning OKC recently for some anti-rail moves it made a while back.
Also look at how we as an independent city run an efficient bus system, unlike OKC, and despite not qualifying for federal metro grants (not considered contiguously urbanized yet)
Also look at the quality of landscaping not just on the OU campus but all over the city compared to OKC and Edmond

Could go on and on..

Norman has done a lot of good things but could do a lot more. Look at Lawrence, Kansas to see how a similar-sized college town on the Plains near a large city should look.

what are all these secrets about norman that the transcript is afraid to write about?

i still dont see whats great about norman, there are lot of other cities the size of norman that i have vistited across the u.s and a lot are nicer looking and more organized that norman..

Man oh man you just don't get it. Both chat rooms and forums may or may not have moderators, so you don't really make a point when you say this is not a chat room. And why can I not assume anything about you? You assumed I was being serious about my comment. And based upon your inability to realize that almost anything actually DOES go in a forum, I assumed that you were out of touch with the interwebs. And unfortunately for you, the seriousness you give this issue only reinforced my opinion. You having seen, heard, and been involved in things that would make my toes curl do not improve your E-skills. I am sorry to break your heart but its true. That would be like me having been to prison, and expecting that experience to make me able to fix engines. The two are simply unrelated.

And regarding those things you have seen and heard, please tell. Because although I am young, I have also seen, eaten, and been involved in things all around the world that would make you throw up in your mouth.

Man oh man you just don't get it. Both chat rooms and forums may or may not have moderators, so you don't really make a point when you say this is not a chat room. And why can I not assume anything about you? You assumed I was being serious about my comment. And based upon your inability to realize that almost anything actually DOES go in a forum, I assumed that you were out of touch with the interwebs. And unfortunately for you, the seriousness you give this issue only reinforced my opinion. You having seen, heard, and been involved in things that would make my toes curl do not improve your E-skills. I am sorry to break your heart but its true. That would be like me having been to prison, and expecting that experience to make me able to fix engines. The two are simply unrelated.

And regarding those things you have seen and heard, please tell. Because although I am young, I have also seen, eaten, and been involved in things all around the world that would make you throw up in your mouth.

This is not the time or place to go into personal issues in either of our lives and I promise you don't want to get in a contest with me about that. There is virtually nothing that you can say that would shock or surprise me but this forum isn't the place for it. I have been in chat rooms where any kind of language or discussion is allowed and this isn't one of those in case you haven't noticed. You know exactly what I'm referring to so don't tell me I didn't make a point. I didn't have to assume anything about your comment. There was nothing in it at all that would make anyone except you assume that it wasn't serious. When you don't want something you say to be taken seriously, give us some reason to think it isn't.

How can you be so sure? You do not know me or my history, so it seems pretty ignorant of you to think that.

And I have been on forums where anything goes just like on a chatroom, so yes, I am telling you that you did not make a point. Lots of bad things, from racism to making fun of the OKC bombing. And while this forum is not like that bad, all you have to do is go look on the main board and read the posts of a guy who wants the Ward 5 representative to die in Afghanistan by choking on a bullet. And he was dead serious.

All you had to do was admit you were wrong by thinking i was serious and then move on. Instead of that, you tried to fight me on this subject and continue to get PWNED. If my bluntness was not enough evidence for you to realize i was being sarcastic, then that is your fault, not mine. So please go away now, save some face, and act like this didnt happen.

Why don't you PWN him somewhere else than out in the open for us all to see?

This thread is not only enlightening it is pure pwnage.

Uber pwnage.

And Spartan, sorry to steal your thread. The pwnage was too tempting, and I got carried away

And Spartan, sorry to steal your thread. The pwnage was too tempting, and I got carried away

No problemo. There are a lot of people on here who I too would like to show some pwnage, I know how it is.

haha, like me I am sure. We have had our fair share of sparing, needless to say.:Smiley051

Back on topic though, I think it is obvious that there is something different about norman than the other suburbs, in a good way of course. A more educated and artsy feel. Obviously, the presence of OU plays the major role in this, but there is definitely an unmeasurable quality about norman that the other suburbs do not have.

How can you be so sure? You do not know me or my history, so it seems pretty ignorant of you to think that.

And I have been on forums where anything goes just like on a chatroom, so yes, I am telling you that you did not make a point. Lots of bad things, from racism to making fun of the OKC bombing. And while this forum is not like that bad, all you have to do is go look on the main board and read the posts of a guy who wants the Ward 5 representative to die in Afghanistan by choking on a bullet. And he was dead serious.

All you had to do was admit you were wrong by thinking i was serious and then move on. Instead of that, you tried to fight me on this subject and continue to get PWNED. If my bluntness was not enough evidence for you to realize i was being sarcastic, then that is your fault, not mine. So please go away now, save some face, and act like this didnt happen.

This will be my last post on this subject. I will admit that I was wrong about thinking you were serious since you have since said you weren't. I won't admit that I should have known that from your post. Without knowing you and how you think, nothing in that post would have made me think you weren't serious. Being blunt is not evidence of sarcasm.

And I know there are inappropriate posts by others here occasionally too. They usually get castigated for it as they should.

yeah the mental hospital, and the little thugs that hand around robinson around the norman regional give this town the educational and artsy side... dont get me wrong norman has great areas, but again there is plenty of towns this size in america that surpass norman in educational people and artsy crap.. there is no high end shopping in this town, no real attraction except for ou, norman is known mainly for ou, there really is not anything else special..sorryto burst your bubble

i still dont see whats great about norman, there are lot of other cities the size of norman that i have vistited across the u.s and a lot are nicer looking and more organized that norman..

Don't think anyone is stating it is one of the best in the US just the best in Central OK

what is wrong with a mental hospital? I did not know that serving disabled citizens was a bad thing. And you act like mental hospitals are not common and having one in norman is a bad thing, but trust me they are everywhere.

And little thugs? Not sure what you mean. I am in norman for most of the year, and any "little thugs" in norman don't even come close to some i see in OKC when i go home.



When you google the definition of "enlightened" the first definition that comes up reads

Having knowledge and spiritual insight.

So no matter how you try and spin it, the presence of OU undoubtedly gives a presence of knowledge that is not found in any other suburb. So i do not see how norman isn't the "enlightened" suburb.

yeah the mental hospital, and the little thugs that hand around robinson around the norman regional give this town the educational and artsy side... dont get me wrong norman has great areas, but again there is plenty of towns this size in america that surpass norman in educational people and artsy crap.. there is no high end shopping in this town, no real attraction except for ou, norman is known mainly for ou, there really is not anything else special..sorryto burst your bubble
Hey, don't forget the Bavenger house south of 60th and Robinson designed by famed architect Bruce Goff. People from all over the world come to go on a tour of that highly unique home that is difficult to adequately describe.

And while they do have some affiliation with OU, I would hardly say having the Sam Noble Museum of Natural History and the Fred Jones, Jr. Museum of Art would qualify Norman as having no real attractions. They are both high class facilities that would be appreciated anywhere in the country. The fact that Jesseda references "artsy crap" says a lot about his or her point of view.

yeah the mental hospital, and the little thugs that hand around robinson around the norman regional give this town the educational and artsy side... dont get me wrong norman has great areas, but again there is plenty of towns this size in america that surpass norman in educational people and artsy crap.. there is no high end shopping in this town, no real attraction except for ou, norman is known mainly for ou, there really is not anything else special..sorryto burst your bubble

No bubble to burst here. You speak about Norman and to those who enjoy/like Norman with such angst. Care to elaborate? And could you please explain to me what you mean by "thugs?" Do you mean people who LOOK like thugs? There's a difference. Unless you've personally encountered violent, malicious robbers and murderers hanging around Robinson, don't use the word thug so freely.

I lived in Norman for four years before moving to Moore/SW OKC last year. I have nothing against Moore/SW OKC, but I decided to move back to Norman after just a year. For OKLAHOMA, (note that I and the original poster never said anything about other cities in the US) Norman has charm that many other OKC area towns and suburbs (depending on who you ask) do not have.

yeah there is thugs, personallly awhile back working for a retail store across from section 8 apartments in norman off alemeda, there are plenty of thugs in norman, some people rally need to open thre enlightened eyes and look around lol, good god....

yeah there is thugs, personallly awhile back working for a retail store across from section 8 apartments in norman off alemeda, there are plenty of thugs in norman, some people rally need to open thre enlightened eyes and look around lol, good god....

Care to tell us how you define the word "thugs"? I could use some enlightenment.

Don't think anyone is stating it is one of the best in the US just the best in Central OKBut Money magazine ranked Edmond #35 as a better place to live than Norman, which was ranked #70. And if you want to count Stillwater as part of central Okahoma, Norman got slightly ranked by Stillwater at #67.

yeah bunty you really cant post that since norman residence think that they live in the best town west of the mississippi lol

As usual, all of those lists are very subjective. It really just depends on what criteria is used to compile the list. If the right kind of data was used, Del City could probably be number one.

I would contend that the bottom line is that there is NO OTHER city in Central Oklahoma that is even doing anything about sustainability in the way that Norman is.

Ergo, Norman is more "enlightened." If "enlightened" were to be broadened in a sense, I would imagine that Norman would also leap further to the top of the list, in terms of education, culture, music scene, cultivated arts scene, and political views (Norman is easily the most politically diverse place in the state).

the last post is so funny...

The premise of this entire thread is funny.

What is Norman doing about sustainability?

Is Spartan "the enlightened poster?"

Norman does have thugs. You can't have a community of its size and it be thug free. That's not really possible even for a community 1/10 its size for that matter.

the last post is so funny...

Funny... becuase you probably don't understand what Spartan said. It's real easy to spout off snarky comments without having a basis for them. I respectfully understand you disagree with what many are saying about Norman; however, I'm not sure you are doing the same with the way you're responding. You look like a fool.

Norman is enlightened in a sense that it brings educated people from not only the entire country, but from all over the world. I can't remember the stats off the top of head, but I believe 40% of Norman's 25 and over population has a bachelors degree.

you are the one who is a fool since you are all worked up about it lol.. get over yourself, maybe you need some blood pressure meds, if this subject is bothering you so much lol. Wow cant believe lil ole me is getting someone who is so educated worked up.. lol.. ps.. there are others one here who are also agreeing with me, so are those people fools as well? I guess we are not in your little enlightened world ( norman) to understand anything you say.. and andrew4ou since you have only posted 7 post your who time on okctalk 33 % of them being on this subject, I really cant take you serious since you are probably using another account on this board.

Is Spartan "the enlightened poster?"He most certainly is.

you are the one who is a fool since you are all worked up about it lol.. get over yourself, maybe you need some blood pressure meds, if this subject is bothering you so much lol. Wow cant believe lil ole me is getting someone who is so educated worked up.. lol.. ps.. there are others one here who are also agreeing with me, so are those people fools as well? I guess we are not in your little enlightened world ( norman) to understand anything you say.. and andrew4ou since you have only posted 7 post your who time on okctalk 33 % of them being on this subject, I really cant take you serious since you are probably using another account on this board.

No, the others are not fools, because they don't respond with the contempt that you use in your posts. The post I quoted above is a great example of that.

And great work and logic, Sherlock. Because I do not post frequently you assume that I have another alias? Uhh... Ok.

What is Norman doing about sustainability?

Limiting sprawl by artificially inflating the cost of a residential building permit. Actually enforcing areas where development is not recommended due to environmental protection. Creating an inner city that is attracting the majority of new Norman residents now. Encouraging ridership on a bus system that is far more efficient than OKC's much-maligned one. To name a few.

Thanks!

andrew4ou get over yourself, before you got all up in my space, I was responding to other peoples post as well, not just you.. big headed much lol. this isnt all about you, this was the fact i disagree with what was said at the very start of this subject about it being the best planned urban development, not just your responses, andrew4ou stop jumpin the gun and attacking people when you yourself dont even know what is going on,.this is my last response to you andrew4ou..

Anyone recall what the city moms and dads ever decided to do regarding a new library?
I'm brain dead as to whether they intend another vote, have given the idea a final fergitaboutit or are looking for something else to tie it on to in roder to give it stronger support.