Larry OKC
02-06-2012, 07:36 PM
never mind... this is about the Canal/River extension and not the Boulevard....back to your regularly scheduled topic
View Full Version : Canal to River Connection Larry OKC 02-06-2012, 07:36 PM never mind... this is about the Canal/River extension and not the Boulevard....back to your regularly scheduled topic BoulderSooner 02-07-2012, 07:02 AM What happened to the center median that was either going to accommodate for landscaping or future street car service? i will get back to topic ... but there still will most likely be a median ... but not for the street car .. the street car is in lanes with traffic .. OKCisOK4me 02-07-2012, 10:30 AM i will get back to topic ... but there still will most likely be a median ... but not for the street car .. the street car is in lanes with traffic .. One last comment off topic.... I can't wait til the streetcar goes in and then we start getting those videos posted on Youtube of stupid OKC drivers turning left in front of streetcars like you see in other cities. Can't wait to get my laugh on! MDot 02-07-2012, 11:10 AM One last comment off topic.... I can't wait til the streetcar goes in and then we start getting those videos posted on Youtube of stupid OKC drivers turning left in front of streetcars like you see in other cities. Can't wait to get my laugh on! I watch the videos of the people down in Houston doing that. Pete 10-07-2013, 09:20 AM Went to the Regatta festival on Friday night and decided to park in the lot near the Land Run Monument and take the new walkway to the riverfront. We not only avoided the big crowd and parking crunch right down by the boathouses, it was a very easy and nice little stroll. The landscaping and walkways are very nice and the underpass is ablaze with sharp LED light sticks. Completely safe and well-done. And of course, provides a very important pedestrian link between Bricktown/downtown and the river. And the festival was very well-done. The lighting system is excellent, all the new playground and exercise equipment looks sharp, really liked the Compass Rose sculpture, they had tons of food tents and we sat in the beer garden with a great view of the river and the fireworks at the end. The potential of that area is just starting to be realized and it's exciting to thing about the rest of the boathouses, the zip line, the indoor surf park and the massive white water facility. And I have to say, sitting there at the river, seeing all the neon from the boathouses and other structures and then looking back to the skyline... It was simply stunning. AP 10-07-2013, 09:52 AM Went to the Regatta festival on Friday night Really wish I could have made it out with you guys. OKCisOK4me 10-07-2013, 02:43 PM Went to the Regatta festival on Friday night and decided to park in the lot near the Land Run Monument and take the new walkway to the riverfront. So is the pathway cleared for traffic below the UPRR tracks? I saw plastic blockades in the way in that KFOR report. bradh 10-07-2013, 02:48 PM Sorry I missed you out there Pete, had the whole fam (well, all 3 of us) out there cheering on my wife's former coworkers. Pete 10-07-2013, 02:58 PM So is the pathway cleared for traffic below the UPRR tracks? I saw plastic blockades in the way in that KFOR report. Yes, open and from what I could tell, complete. OKCisOK4me 10-07-2013, 03:00 PM Yes, open and from what I could tell, complete. Well, I guess UP isn't so hard to deal with. No one ever responded to the email I sent though. Pete 10-07-2013, 04:17 PM Just went by and its closed off again. Paseofreak 10-07-2013, 04:23 PM Read somewhere, maybe the DOK, that an agreement had been reached only for the duration of the Regatta. OKCisOK4me 10-07-2013, 05:23 PM Read somewhere, maybe the DOK, that an agreement had been reached only for the duration of the Regatta. Union Pacific was soooooooooooooo nice for one weekend! Paseofreak 10-07-2013, 05:45 PM Well, yes, they were. If you read how the city and bridge designers screwed up the design and "took" available overhead clearance (in the DOK. Find the link over in the Riverfront Development or Boathouse Row threads) from them, I'd say they were mighty nice. I used to process right of way encroachment permits for CSX for a while, and you'd be astounded at the number of folks, including municipal officials that think that railroads are federally run or subsidized. They are all private, publicly held commercial concerns. They are not being good stewards to their stockholders by compromising flexibility in future development by rolling over and giving it away. The city should have hired competent designers and worked the process aggressively to obtain approval and permits beforehand. It is pretty well known to most civil design firms. OKCisOK4me 10-07-2013, 10:42 PM Well, yes, they were. If you read how the city and bridge designers screwed up the design and "took" available overhead clearance (in the DOK. Find the link over in the Riverfront Development or Boathouse Row threads) from them, I'd say they were mighty nice. I used to process right of way encroachment permits for CSX for a while, and you'd be astounded at the number of folks, including municipal officials that think that railroads are federally run or subsidized. They are all private, publicly held commercial concerns. They are not being good stewards to their stockholders by compromising flexibility in future development by rolling over and giving it away. The city should have hired competent designers and worked the process aggressively to obtain approval and permits beforehand. It is pretty well known to most civil design firms. All that aside, let's think about this for a second... The construction to lay the new line for that underpass was one of the first I-40 projects completed, so it was done at least 3 years ago. They were aware of what the reason for the bridge was for. Why get all butthurt over it now? Urbanized 10-08-2013, 08:51 AM Did anyone even read the link I posted? Pete 10-08-2013, 09:00 AM Did anyone even read the link I posted? I don't see any posts from you in this thread... Exactly what link?? David 10-08-2013, 09:06 AM This link (http://newsok.com/bricktown-bridge-construction-faces-delay/article/2910561) posted here (http://www.okctalk.com/other-urban-development/24690-oklahoma-river-development-31.html#post692984) if I had to guess. Urbanized 10-08-2013, 02:05 PM Oh yeah, you're right. Sorry, I was thinking this was the river development thread, where the link was also ignored (except by David. Thanks David). Larry OKC 10-08-2013, 04:55 PM Read somewhere, maybe the DOK, that an agreement had been reached only for the duration of the Regatta. Deal opens Bricktown Landing for Regatta Festival in Oklahoma City | News OK (http://newsok.com/deal-opens-bricktown-landing-for-regatta-festival-in-oklahoma-city/article/3889108) Once the Regatta Festival ends, Bricktown Landing will close until the city and Union Pacific finalize a permanent deal to use the passageway beneath the railroad bridge. and some other interesting background info I stumbled over, looking for the above link... Canal link hits snag at tracks Initial waterway plan connected Bricktown to downtown area | News OK (http://newsok.com/canal-link-hits-snag-at-tracks-initial-waterway-plan-connected-bricktown-to-downtown-area/article/2685563) Pete 10-10-2013, 11:48 AM Here are some photos I took the other day... The first is the walk down from the large parking lot near the Land Run Monument. The second is looking over the first set of barricades; those poles are actually LED light strips that look really slick at night. And BTW, you can easily push past the barriers to make the crossing. http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/riverwalk.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/riverwalk1.jpg http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/riverwalk2.jpg bigjkt405 10-10-2013, 01:58 PM I rode down there last evening and it looks nice. Can't wait until its officially open to ride all the way through on my bike. Pete 10-10-2013, 02:06 PM It really is easy just to slide past the barriers, although you'd have to get off your bike. It's really absurd that this is completely done, all lit up at night and there is this silly feud. Here's hoping it gets resolved soon. Plutonic Panda 10-10-2013, 02:08 PM I wonder if they could get you for trespassing? I don't care either way and I would still slip through, just curious as to the current situation. This is so stupid though... Pete 10-10-2013, 02:23 PM There is absolutely nobody down there, especially near this underpass. Plutonic Panda 10-10-2013, 02:34 PM There is absolutely nobody down there, especially near this underpass.That sucks. . . I wonder how many people around downtown even know it is there. OKCisOK4me 10-10-2013, 03:10 PM I wonder if they could get you for trespassing? I don't care either way and I would still slip through, just curious as to the current situation. This is so stupid though... Trespassing under railroad property? I don't think so. On railroad property, yes. But how often do you see randoms walking down railroad tracks? Unless they post a guard that is certified by the railroad, I just don't think they can really do anything about it. Their right of way is what, forty feet wide? That whole structure is 200 feet? It's not like they can arrest you for being under I-40... Urbanized 10-10-2013, 03:17 PM I still don't think anyone has bothered to read the 2005 story I posted a link to (http://newsok.com/bricktown-bridge-construction-faces-delay/article/2910561). So, with apologies to Steve (even though it is Bryan Dean's story), I am going to post the article in its entirety: Bricktown bridge construction faces delay Bryan Dean • Modified: September 6, 2005 at 12:00 am • Published: September 6, 2005 A fight between Oklahoma City and Union Pacific Railroad Co. could delay completion of the Walnut Avenue bridge, officials said. The bridge, a major Bricktown entryway, was closed in August 2004 because it no longer was safe. Repair work started in March after Allen Contracting won a $4.2 million contract from the city for renovations. The contract award was delayed because of the fight with Union Pacific. The dispute could force crews to halt construction if it is not resolved soon, City Engineer Paul Brum said. The city wants Union Pacific to pay for part of the repairs. Craig Keith, a staff attorney for the city, said state law requires the railroad to pay at least half. The city and the railroad have not agreed on a split of the costs, and the city took the case before the Oklahoma Corporation Commission. The city and the railroad also are at odds over the design of the bridge, and the railroad has refused to grant the city permission to build over the tracks. An attorney for the railroad said the city acted without consulting the railroad, leading to design flaws the city now wants to fix by reducing the amount of track available to the railroad. An administrative law judge with the Oklahoma Corporation Commission denied the city's request for an order granting the city the right to complete the bridge as designed because of concerns clearance between the tracks and the bridge would not meet the 23 foot industry standard. The city responded by developing a plan to relocate the tracks. The city allocated $1 million to move the track so that it would meet the clearance requirements. Rob Hart, an attorney for Union Pacific, said the city's plan for the relocated track would eliminate a side track allowing cars to be added to a train. "It's hard to switch cars on one track instead of two, Hart said. Keith said the city offered to pay for additional work on the main line of track in exchange for relocating it and eliminating the side track. HangryHippo 10-10-2013, 03:35 PM I still don't think anyone has bothered to read the 2005 story I posted a link to (http://newsok.com/bricktown-bridge-construction-faces-delay/article/2910561). So, with apologies to Steve (even though it is Bryan Dean's story), I am going to post the article in its entirety: What point are you trying to make? OKCisOK4me 10-10-2013, 03:44 PM I still don't think anyone has bothered to read the 2005 story I posted a link to (http://newsok.com/bricktown-bridge-construction-faces-delay/article/2910561). So, with apologies to Steve (even though it is Bryan Dean's story), I am going to post the article in its entirety: Ya know, the only thing I see being switched under the Walnut Street bridge is where the grass grows over the tracks, lol. Union Pacific doesn't even use that portion of those tracks anymore so other than the "fight" they had with OKC in 2005 it seems to me they're holding a grudge against a federally approved alignment for the new I-40 that they just happen to share. They need to get over it as it's a vital connection. Not to mention this is under their tracks. Did they flip when OKC put in the Skydance Pedestrian Bridge? That's over their tracks... Urbanized 10-10-2013, 03:45 PM What point are you trying to make? If you can read that eight year old story involving the city and the same railroad and not see startling parallels and connections, I'm sorry, I can't help. People have been in this thread and the other thread desperately seeking explanations for what is happening here and expressing shock at the situation; I was only trying to help out. HangryHippo 10-10-2013, 03:53 PM If you can read that eight year old story involving the city and the same railroad and not see startling parallels and connections, I'm sorry, I can't help. People have been in this thread and the other thread desperately seeking explanations for what is happening here and expressing shock at the situation; I was only trying to help out. No need to be an ass. I was merely curious if your endless ranting about an article from eight years ago was meant to drum up a desired reaction other than thinking the railroad is difficult to work with. OKCisOK4me 10-10-2013, 03:55 PM If you can read that eight year old story involving the city and the same railroad and not see startling parallels and connections, I'm sorry, I can't help. People have been in this thread and the other thread desperately seeking explanations for what is happening here and expressing shock at the situation; I was only trying to help out. I had a good reply to your story and this reply still doesn't help me. Union Pacific should know they're still not building the Transcon to Utah. There doesn't need to be a fight. Urbanized 10-10-2013, 05:19 PM No need to be an ass. I was merely curious if your endless ranting about an article from eight years ago was meant to drum up a desired reaction other than thinking the railroad is difficult to work with. No need for namecalling. And it wasn't said with the intent to be an ass. I can't go into details. Read the article, make what you will of it. OKCisOK4me 10-10-2013, 05:22 PM No need for namecalling. And it wasn't said with the intent to be an ass. I can't go into details. Read the article, make what you will of it. Hi. Urbanized 10-10-2013, 05:27 PM Hi. What up! OKCisOK4me 10-10-2013, 05:47 PM What up! I think you missed my post #98. I made some valid points ;-) Urbanized 10-10-2013, 05:53 PM I agree, you made some good points. I saw it, LOL. Plutonic Panda 10-10-2013, 07:59 PM Trespassing under railroad property? I don't think so. On railroad property, yes. But how often do you see randoms walking down railroad tracks? Unless they post a guard that is certified by the railroad, I just don't think they can really do anything about it. Their right of way is what, forty feet wide? That whole structure is 200 feet? It's not like they can arrest you for being under I-40...I hope not, either way I doubt they would do anything about it even if they could. catch22 10-11-2013, 11:56 AM I just walked around that area. It looks great, can't wait for it to be officially open. There is no one watching the underpass, so, while I am in no way encouraging trespassing nor admitting I did so myself, the barrier appears that it would be easy to slip by. Some observations: Signage Needs signs. A prominent sign over the tunnel that says "Boathouse District" and on the reverse saying "Lower Bricktown". If I were a visitor I would have no idea what is on the other side of the tunnel. From the Bricktown side you can see the Boathouse District, but if you don't know about it, it looks like a sports field and a park is on the other side, since you cannot see the Boathouses or the river. Need signs that point you to go vertical...i.e. where the Bricktown canal is. From the bottom looking up, again looks like it's just a park at the top of the hill. You don't know the canal and pathway to bricktown is above you. Need signs. You must assume that people do not know where things are. Assume everyone is a visitor. Pretend you are a visitor with no knowledge of the area, and try to figure out how to get around. Place signs where visitors would need them. Pathways The east pathway is very wide, the west pathway is about half the width of the east. The east pathway needs paint delineating a bike lane. It is wide enough to have paint on the ground indicating where the cyclists go, and where the pedestrian goes. This will encourage both cyclists and pedestrians to use the walkway because both know they belong and have their own space. It will reinforce the connection as not just a pathway, but as a designated route for people to flow between the two districts. The theme being: we want you to use this. All of the other pathways are very wide, and very well done. I would also recommend a staircase that goes by the zig-zagging sidewalk that connects the canal to the river connection. The sidewalk zigzags to make the grade easy and accessible for everyone. But a staircase that bypasses that would be nice. Sometimes you don't want to zig-zag 5 times up a hill, and would rather a staircase. jn1780 10-11-2013, 01:03 PM UP probably has a rule where you can't have human powered mechical devices under their right of way. So no bikes. lol David 10-14-2013, 08:27 AM If you can read that eight year old story involving the city and the same railroad and not see startling parallels and connections, I'm sorry, I can't help. People have been in this thread and the other thread desperately seeking explanations for what is happening here and expressing shock at the situation; I was only trying to help out. Here's the thing, Urban. You know I read the article, and the problem with it is that the plural of anecdote is not data. Just because the city didn't work with UP in one instance does not mean it never does or did not this time. From the original article (http://www.news9.com/story/23584018/okc-union-pacific-dispute-halts-bricktown-connection-to-river) about the problem posted in the Oklahoma River Development thread: OKC spokesperson Kristy Yager says the city has been working with Union Pacific for years, but the railroad says it didn't even know the tunnel existed until last week. Yager chalks the confusion up to a communication breakdown. "We've got pages of documentation that we've worked with them over the last two years," Yager said. "We just now need to talk to our new contact [at Union Pacific]." Unless this Kristy Yager person is straight up lying, the issue sounds to me like it was on UP's side. Urbanized 10-14-2013, 06:19 PM I've known her for years, and Kristy is one of the most dedicated, well-intentioned and honest people I know at the City. As far as I have ever known, she doesn't make a habit of lying. You're taking the railroad's statements in the first article at face value. FWIW, there was litigation associated with the other case, in which the City prevailed. My point is that there seems to be a pattern at work. Larry OKC 10-15-2013, 05:16 PM catch22: your ideas seem reasonable and an improvement...and maybe already be in the works, the finishing touches... Snowman 10-15-2013, 06:17 PM I just walked around that area. It looks great, can't wait for it to be officially open. There is no one watching the underpass, so, while I am in no way encouraging trespassing nor admitting I did so myself, the barrier appears that it would be easy to slip by. Some observations: Signage Needs signs. A prominent sign over the tunnel that says "Boathouse District" and on the reverse saying "Lower Bricktown". If I were a visitor I would have no idea what is on the other side of the tunnel. From the Bricktown side you can see the Boathouse District, but if you don't know about it, it looks like a sports field and a park is on the other side, since you cannot see the Boathouses or the river. Need signs that point you to go vertical...i.e. where the Bricktown canal is. From the bottom looking up, again looks like it's just a park at the top of the hill. You don't know the canal and pathway to bricktown is above you. Need signs. You must assume that people do not know where things are. Assume everyone is a visitor. Pretend you are a visitor with no knowledge of the area, and try to figure out how to get around. Place signs where visitors would need them. Pathways The east pathway is very wide, the west pathway is about half the width of the east. The east pathway needs paint delineating a bike lane. It is wide enough to have paint on the ground indicating where the cyclists go, and where the pedestrian goes. This will encourage both cyclists and pedestrians to use the walkway because both know they belong and have their own space. It will reinforce the connection as not just a pathway, but as a designated route for people to flow between the two districts. The theme being: we want you to use this. All of the other pathways are very wide, and very well done. I would also recommend a staircase that goes by the zig-zagging sidewalk that connects the canal to the river connection. The sidewalk zigzags to make the grade easy and accessible for everyone. But a staircase that bypasses that would be nice. Sometimes you don't want to zig-zag 5 times up a hill, and would rather a staircase. Agree on the signage, though they just finished the groundwork so that may be to come, I know the boathouse district is about to be doing a lot in there area but not sure if they are doing any west of the bridge. The plan had a staircase at one point, possibly cut due to budget. They also left space for if they want to add an elevator later as well. Urbanized 10-16-2013, 06:04 PM Stairs and elevator both cut due to budget. OKCisOK4me 10-16-2013, 06:27 PM Stairs and elevator both cut due to budget. You'd think that a straight down sidewalk with steps would cost a lot less than a zig zagging walkway that's 7 times longer! kevinpate 10-16-2013, 06:29 PM ADA compliance, wheel chair access. Not everyone is a fully functional bi-ped. Snowman 10-16-2013, 06:42 PM Stairs and elevator both cut due to budget. I did not think the elevator really got approved, just planed the space for if they found the money later. catch22 10-16-2013, 07:46 PM Is future funding to complete the stairs and elevator being seeked? OKCisOK4me 10-17-2013, 02:04 AM Nm Urbanized 10-17-2013, 10:38 AM The elevator was an add alternate and was cut early. The stairs were value engineered from the project when the project's budget got tight. I don't think anyone is currently pursuing funding for either, but might be wrong about that. The switchbacks were an ADA requirement, as kevinpate suggests. That was the single element that HAD to be built. OKCisOK4me 10-17-2013, 01:33 PM There's an ADA compliant sidewalk from the parking lot. No need for two of them... Urbanized 10-17-2013, 09:28 PM One serves the parking lot, one the canal. I'm not certain (don't recall) if the one to the parking lot is ADA-compliant. The other one definitely is. catch22 10-18-2013, 12:59 AM ^^ It is. One thing I meant to add in my original post. The freeway noise from the tunnel is hardly noticeable. You'd imagine it would be noisy, but it is actually very quiet and peaceful in the tunnel. Snowman 10-18-2013, 08:55 AM ^^ It is. One thing I meant to add in my original post. The freeway noise from the tunnel is hardly noticeable. You'd imagine it would be noisy, but it is actually very quiet and peaceful in the tunnel. I was surprised it was not too loud on the south side of the canal as well, given the banking turns I expected more to be funneled to the park, it was funny that what traffic noise there was kind of sounded like water rapids off behind the trees. shawnw 01-13-2014, 09:24 AM Opening delayed because of railroad issues..... OKC, Union Pacific Dispute Halts Bricktown Connection To River - News9.com - Oklahoma City, OK - News, Weather, Video and Sports | (http://www.news9.com/story/23584018/okc-union-pacific-dispute-halts-bricktown-connection-to-river) Bricktown-river link on track for March (http://journalrecord.com/2014/01/10/bricktown-river-link-on-track-for-march-general-news/) Apparent progress on this issue, though I cannot read it... OKCisOK4me 01-13-2014, 04:06 PM Bricktown-river link on track for March (http://journalrecord.com/2014/01/10/bricktown-river-link-on-track-for-march-general-news/) Apparent progress on this issue, though I cannot read it... I can't read it either but that's good news. ljbab728 01-14-2014, 09:46 AM This is from Molly Flemings article in the Journal. When the water returns to the Bricktown Canal, the city plans to have the connection between Bricktown and the Oklahoma River open to visitors. The connection was slated to open on Oct. 1. Then, on the morning of the grand opening, the Union Pacific Railroad – owner of the bridge over the river connection – said the inspections were not complete and refused approval. The connection was opened twice temporarily for special events. The bridge has since been inspected and approved by the railroad. The two entities are now working on the right-of-entry agreement. Oklahoma City Public Works Department Director Eric Wenger said the city and the railroad have been reviewing agreements since that time and are close to signing on the dotted line. He said the debacle with the opening was due to the retirement of Union Pacific employees who were working on the project, as the city had ongoing communications with the company. “We were negotiating the agreement (before the scheduled opening),” he said. “We lost some of the knowledge of the project when the new staff was assigned.” Union Pacific Railroad spokeswoman Raquel Espinoza said the last agreement sent to the city from Union Pacific was on Dec. 12. “We are negotiating the final terms,” Wenger said. “Since this is intended to be a long-standing agreement, there are still a couple of things to work out.” The railroad has ownership of the bridge and wants to make sure the city will take proper care of the area around it, as well as allow Union Pacific to do any work necessary. Wenger said that according to the agreement, the city will take care of any graffiti in the area, as well as general maintenance. The city will also notify the railroad of any work that needs to be done to the bridge. He said a formal agreement is expected to be approved by the reopening of the canal in March, and there are no events scheduled that will require a special use permit. shawnw 01-14-2014, 09:58 AM Thank you for posting. |