Go ahead and skip the comments section.

What?!?!? You aren't pissed that we're wasting money on this pointless rich man's toy project that VOTERS approved 5 years ago and not spending it on a more worthwhile cause like education (which we've never raised additional taxes to improve...), school storm shelters in Moore, our crappy highways, or to fix the Capitol building?!?!?!?!?

(Didn't actually read the comments, let me know if I left anything out)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You forgot "all city bus stops need covers!". Just about nailed the rest.

What?!?!? You aren't pissed that we're wasting money on this pointless rich man's toy project that VOTERS approved 5 years ago and not spending it on a more worthwhile cause like education (which we've never raised additional taxes to improve...), school storm shelters in Moore, our crappy highways, or to fix the Capitol building?!?!?!?!?

(Didn't actually read the comments, let me know if I left anything out)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You obviously are ignoring the Maps for Kids, a $700 million initiative that paid for a massive amount of facilities for education.

You obviously are ignoring the Maps for Kids, a $700 million initiative that paid for a massive amount of facilities for education.

I hope you are being facetious and picked up on my extremely obvious sarcasm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You forgot "all city bus stops need covers!". Just about nailed the rest.

Ah yes! I how could I forget the gold plated covered bus stops that we should divert this money toward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I hope you are being facetious and picked up on my extremely obvious sarcasm.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


OOPS. Sorry. Guess it wasn't obvious...to me at least.

OOPS. Sorry. Guess it wasn't obvious...to me at least.

No problem

https://www.facebook.com/NEWS9/posts/10152230412652212

^^^^^ Oh the ignorance! Completely astounding.

Oh lordy.

Sent from my Nexus 10 using Tapatalk

God Bless Danny Mason.

http://kwtv.images.worldnow.com/images/3933550_G.jpg https://sp.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.608004998130107088&pid=15.1&P=0 https://sp3.yimg.com/ib/th?id=HN.607994170517946583&pid=15.1&P=0 https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSlsyP3X-T9XTxXLCxzS7yDxt16bnYUd7G568nZWjnlpDLjwJVgPw https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTaESOSzc6kS_57XzLXBQbvoegk7e6lG 8Q34F9hZjWjHwpHbIor


Let's get this project started, 2016 is just right around the corner. Keep the momentum on the riverfront development on going; you might be surprised as to what other 'interests' take note of what's happening in Oklahoma City.

Something 'big' could be in the future for the riverfront.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

So apparently, the KWTV viewers actually don't follow anything going on in their city.

Sadly, that is probably a representative sample of those in the city. Unfortunately so many do not take advantage of what is going on in the core of the city and choose to stick around the bubble of their zones. You see thousands of people attending great events at the Boathouse district, Myriad Gardens, or along 23rd street, but there are hundreds of thousands who don't go north of I-240 or south of I-44 on a regular basis.

God Bless Danny Mason.

I should give him a raise.

From Ben Felder on Twitter (https://twitter.com/benfelder_okg/status/504279659609989120):


City council votes 5-4 to move forward with whitewater facility, will look for ways to cut costs along the way following high bid.

I sent Pete a pic of the board.

Looks like the mayor may have had to break the tie (from Urban Pionner):

http://www.okctalk.com/images/pete/wwvote.jpg

So.... what would have happened if it failed? No whitewater course that we voted on or just start over with the RFPs?

They would have had to scaled back the plans to fit the original budget.

This is an item that the city needs to "spend money to make money".

I think this was the right decision. This will be a major attraction that will help to define the Boathouse District for years. If OKC wants the river to be an attraction then it was important to do this right. The stands and wind screen can wait or be done later.

This is an item that the city needs to "spend money to make money".

This could sustain itself from the standpoint of revenue streams. We need facilities that are attractive to tourists; the out-of-state tourism money helps beef up our area's economy.


I think this was the right decision. This will be a major attraction that will help to define the Boathouse District for years. If OKC wants the river to be an attraction then it was important to do this right. The stands and wind screen can wait or be done later.

The whitewater facility will be the centerpiece of the boathouse district; it will define Oklahoma City in this area.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif"Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

I did not get a chance to watch the vote but what did the people who voted against think we needed to do? Get more bids? Scrap it altogether since it was too expensive? Cut something else?

Why is Shadid so opposed to so many things that are positive for OKC? I mean this guy is just ridiculous and I can't imagine the set back this city would have had if he had won the election. It almost seems like he has an agenda to just oppose anything that is going to continue momentum and future projects that will take us to another level. How can this guy be voted out of anything that has to do with city decisions? He really needs to be replaced or else it could effect future projects because I am certain he has his allies that will vote with his ideas as well.

While Shadid does seem to oppose a lot of projects, he also tends to ask questions and processes no one else addresses. Also, he's made the case that there are more pressing needs than some projects. I disagree with him, but I'm not sure I'd categorize everything he does as ridiculous or counterproductive. Obviously, he lost a lot of political capital during the election. So maybe his questioning, without too much power, is just what the council needs?

18 million dollars over budget? Who the heck was the estimator on this project.....Can you say total fail.

Oklahoma City Council awards whitewater park contract | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-city-council-awards-whitewater-park-contract/article/5336108)

Looks like the mayor may have had to break the tie (from Urban Pionner):

Here are some of Mick's comments.


Mayor Mick Cornett argued against delaying a vote or redesigning the park to reduce the risk of going over budget — both options would have pushed back a planned completion date of December 2015.
“We can wait and we can wait and we can wait, but there’s still going to be some risk on the table,” Cornett said.
As the council considered three options with varying price tags and completion dates, Cornett said he thought the best option was to complete the park in a way that preserved amenities for athletes, recreational paddlers and visitors.

“How do we keep this on budget? How do we keep this on time? How do we build a facility that 10 years from now hardly anyone’s going to remember there was a hiccup on the bidding process?” Cornett said.

This should dip into the $30 million contingency fund. Glad we have it instead of giving it to OG&E to move that power substation.


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

18 million dollars over budget? Who the heck was the estimator on this project.....Can you say total fail.

How in the world can the estimate be so wrong? I'd really like to know how the city arrived at this number, if the specs were different or something materially changed please let us know. However, if this was just an error, it erodes confidence in the city, especially their engineers and the entire planning division.

The City relied on it's paid consultant who also did the design work and is considered the foremost expert in this type of facility.

They were equally surprised by the high estimates.

Those are some pretty complex chunks of concrete, which the designer understood very well and likely didn't consider to be exceedingly difficult to build. Conversely, it's very likely that none of the bidders has ever constructed anything like this before and their perception of difficulty, risk, and unknowns is expressed in their pricing. My bet is that the difference is about 30% changed market conditions and 70% fear.

From Twitter (https://twitter.com/WILLIAMCRUM/status/505373282103615490):


Friday morning on the Oklahoma River, Downey Contracting already at work on the MAPS 3 whitewater park site. #OKC

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BwNyUnDCAAASVY-.jpg:large

From Twitter (https://twitter.com/WILLIAMCRUM/status/505373282103615490):

So, it kind of looks like that machine is coming out of the truck to me.

FYI: Downey Contracting has been on site several months already. They have been working on Phase 2 improvements since December of last year.

So, it kind of looks like that machine is coming out of the truck to me.

Truck option packages ... more amazing with each passing year. :P

Today there were two building permits filed for construction trailers on this site, so it looks like they will start work any day.

Will be exciting to see this start to take shape; will make a huge impact on the river.

An update.

Oklahoma City's MAPS 3 whitewater changes pass panel's first review | News OK (http://newsok.com/oklahoma-citys-maps-3-whitewater-changes-pass-panels-first-review/article/5344939)



An advisory group agreed Tuesday with plans for $4 million in substitutions and deletions to keep the MAPS 3 whitewater park on budget.

Proposed savings range from $10,000 for window shades, to $72,000 by substituting concrete sidewalks for pavers, to $383,000 by eliminating an entrance fountain.

Lighting and seating would be reduced, newer shrubs and trees would be planted, and the number of bike racks and staff lockers would drop.
Proposals include:

Eliminating the kayak boathouse, to save $263,000. Knopp, a subcommittee member, called the building a “programming function” of the whitewater park and said the price was a good one. Todd said plans are to install utilities, retaining the option to build it later.

Deleting a portion of a pedestrian bridge, and substituting new materials, for saving $405,000.

Dropping furnishings called for, in order to save $600,000.

Installing three 30-foot flagpoles instead of 40-foot poles saves $2,000.

that sucks.

this really sucks... I thought the whole thing was just approved.

Proposed Oklahoma City whitewater park could face budget cuts | Oklahoma City - OKC - KOCO.com (http://www.koco.com/news/proposed-oklahoma-city-whitewater-park-could-face-budget-cuts/28203092)

and they're going to cut concrete from it and use pavers. I hate that! The Kayak boathouse is going to. that's a douchebag move.

... I hate that! The Kayak boathouse is going to. that's a douchebag move.

I was not huge on that location to begin with. It is on the entire opposite side from the entrance, the main whitewater boathouse and the parking lot.

They probably will just store the kayaks in part of the space planned for rafts (right by the main building). Plus given their history it would not be surprising if it (or a newer concept of it) eventually gets built with private funds.

and they're going to cut concrete from it and use pavers. I hate that! The Kayak boathouse is going to. that's a douchebag move.

Actually, it's the other way around. They are cutting out pavers and replacing with poured concrete. Pavers are more expensive to install.

...does that mean you're happy now?

Just wait until they are forced to make cuts to convention center.

The article states that a lot of these cuts can be added later.....this brings it in closer to the desired budget.

They really don't need an entrance fountain IMO, that's almost a $400,000 cut. They'll have more water than you can imagine flowing as it is.

Actually, it's the other way around. They are cutting out pavers and replacing with poured concrete. Pavers are more expensive to install.

...does that mean you're happy now?ah, I misread it. That is better. Just as long as it's poured right and they use a good quality cement.

Here is the official list of things deleted and it is extensive:

•Delete connection to Lincoln Blvd., $97,396.61.
•Delete patterns in paving, $165,392.15.
•Delete one filtration unit, $114,500.
•Delete conduits from main building to finish line tower, $104,734.08.
•Delete entry fountain, $383,300.60.
•Delete gabion benches and associated lighting, $129,587.91.
•Delete furniture, equipment, $101,000.
•Delete documentary photography, $24,521.97.
•Delete furniture, equipment, $22,000.
•Delete furniture, equipment, $494,000.
•Delete sand fill over sewer cap, substitute compacted soil, $128,832.73.
•Substitute fiberglass conduit for PVC-coated angular connections, $43,785.50.
•Delete three remote 120-volt electrical service points, $16,720.
•Substitute 6-inch slope paving for stepped stones, $19,263.53.
•Substitute type A, B asphalt for S3, S4 asphalt, $18,810.
•Delete street improvements on Phillips, Laird north of SE 5 Street, $48,070.
•Delete conduit for recreation water well, $7,156.68.
•Delete diamond island synthetic wood and concrete seating, $12,305.92.
•Delete synthetic wood seating at lower pond terrace, $12,548.36.
•Delete plant covering at competition channel south retaining wall, $9,466.24.
•Substitute concrete sidewalk for interior, exterior pavers, $71,778.12.
•Substitute cast-in-place concrete for capstone on channel walls, $143,100.21.
•Substitute concrete sidewalks for wooden decks at lower pond jetties, $33,020.96.
•Delete north span of west pedestrian bridge, substitute decking, galvanized steel for painted finish. $405,012.32.
•Delete three backless benches, $6,489.45.
•Delete two benches, $5,204.10.
•Delete five trash bins and eight recycling bins, $19,039.90.
•Substitute 18 painted posts for 18 triangular posts, $4,984.65.
•Substitute of Ameristar fencing and gates for ClearVu security fence, $18,700.28.
•Delete 1,049 linear feet of concrete seat wall at diamond mound, $99,032.67.
•For 450 shrubs, substitute one-gallon for five-gallon; for 50 trees, substitute 1.5-inch for 2.5-inch, $6,374.
•Substitute 4-inch steel landscape edging for 6-inch, $5,225.
•For 165 trees, substitute 2-inch to 2.25-inch for 2.5-inch, $5,172.
•For 1,142 shrubs, substitute 3-gallon for 5-gallon, $5,966.95.
•Delete compost, substitute Canadian Valley sod for Easton sod, $5,486.25.
•Delete 2,405 square feet of paved lawn area at diamond island, $11,862.42.
•Delete seven of 15 bike racks, $3,584.35.
•Substitute three 30-foot flagpoles for three 40-foot flagpoles, relocate flagpoles from pedestrian bridge to entry plaza, $2,015.81.
•Delete pump station waterfall, $55,235.57.
•Delete 9,225 linear feet of the 66,586 linear feet of "unistrut" connectors for plastic blocks used to modify whitewater channel features, $51,702.42.
•Substitute compacted soil for sand to backfill channel walls, $116,993.64.
•Substitute compacted soil for sand to backfill pump installations, $75,978.15.
•Substitute reduced hardness concrete in slabs and walls, $28,258.89.
•Delete specifications for pouring concrete in cold and hot weather; allow more time for construction as needed, $40,000.
•Delete specification for rock of particular size beneath channel liner, $42,942.66.
•Delete requirement that concrete channel walls be thicker at the top, $26,574.35.
•Delete second liner beneath channels, $11,058.19.
•Substitute uncoated reinforcing rebar for rust-resistant rebar in concrete channel slabs and walls, $86,891.75.
•Delete rebar electrical grounding, $73,150.
•Delete warning "planks" with buried electrical conduit, substitute buried plastic warning ribbon, $75,298.52.
•Delete lights at channel gates and posts, $33,440.
•Substitute 38 light fixtures, $62,700.
•Substitute 41 standard tree floodlights, $5,225.
•Delete nine pedestrian lights, $20,795.50.
•Delete 19 tree floodlights, $6,583.50
•Reduce buildings' earthquake resistance rating, $7,315.
•Reduce earthquake resistance rating for building electrical systems, $20,207.17.
•Substitute mosaic tile for subway tile on main building restroom walls, $6,897.
•Delete counter millwork at main building bar, $5,214.55.
•Delete main building glass partition, $5,308.60.
•Deletion main building window shades, $10,319.38.
•Substitute painted gypsum wallboard in main building pro shop dressing room, $12,417.11.
•Delete 16 of 28 staff lockers, $17,890.40.
•Delete outdoor trash, recycling bins at main building entry, $10,002.74.
•Delete specialized main building air purification system, $10,690.35.
•Substitute tankless water heaters, eliminating need for stainless steel flue, $7,106.
•Substitute three pendant light fixtures for custom main building light fixture, $6,270.
•Delete kayak boathouse, preserve utilities for future construction, $262,536.40.

The total deleted amount is $3,992,453.08

How in the hell does 5 benches cost almost $12,000 dollars ? Are they that special ?

How in the hell does 5 benches cost almost $12,000 dollars ? Are they that special ?

I wondered the same thing about 16 staff lockers being almost $18,000? What in the hell kind of lockers are they? Also, what outdoor trash/recycling bins cost $10,000?

damn that pedestrian bridge was expensive...i knew when i was looking at the plans bidding this that wasn't going to be cheap

Here is the official list of things deleted and it is extensive:

•Delete connection to Lincoln Blvd., $97,396.61.
•Delete patterns in paving, $165,392.15.
•Delete one filtration unit, $114,500.
•Delete conduits from main building to finish line tower, $104,734.08.
•Delete entry fountain, $383,300.60.
•Delete gabion benches and associated lighting, $129,587.91.
•Delete furniture, equipment, $101,000.
•Delete documentary photography, $24,521.97.
•Delete furniture, equipment, $22,000.
•Delete furniture, equipment, $494,000.
•Delete sand fill over sewer cap, substitute compacted soil, $128,832.73.
•Substitute fiberglass conduit for PVC-coated angular connections, $43,785.50.
•Delete three remote 120-volt electrical service points, $16,720.
•Substitute 6-inch slope paving for stepped stones, $19,263.53.
•Substitute type A, B asphalt for S3, S4 asphalt, $18,810.
•Delete street improvements on Phillips, Laird north of SE 5 Street, $48,070.
•Delete conduit for recreation water well, $7,156.68.
•Delete diamond island synthetic wood and concrete seating, $12,305.92.
•Delete synthetic wood seating at lower pond terrace, $12,548.36.
•Delete plant covering at competition channel south retaining wall, $9,466.24.
•Substitute concrete sidewalk for interior, exterior pavers, $71,778.12.
•Substitute cast-in-place concrete for capstone on channel walls, $143,100.21.
•Substitute concrete sidewalks for wooden decks at lower pond jetties, $33,020.96.
•Delete north span of west pedestrian bridge, substitute decking, galvanized steel for painted finish. $405,012.32.
•Delete three backless benches, $6,489.45.
•Delete two benches, $5,204.10.
•Delete five trash bins and eight recycling bins, $19,039.90.
•Substitute 18 painted posts for 18 triangular posts, $4,984.65.
•Substitute of Ameristar fencing and gates for ClearVu security fence, $18,700.28.
•Delete 1,049 linear feet of concrete seat wall at diamond mound, $99,032.67.
•For 450 shrubs, substitute one-gallon for five-gallon; for 50 trees, substitute 1.5-inch for 2.5-inch, $6,374.
•Substitute 4-inch steel landscape edging for 6-inch, $5,225.
•For 165 trees, substitute 2-inch to 2.25-inch for 2.5-inch, $5,172.
•For 1,142 shrubs, substitute 3-gallon for 5-gallon, $5,966.95.
•Delete compost, substitute Canadian Valley sod for Easton sod, $5,486.25.
•Delete 2,405 square feet of paved lawn area at diamond island, $11,862.42.
•Delete seven of 15 bike racks, $3,584.35.
•Substitute three 30-foot flagpoles for three 40-foot flagpoles, relocate flagpoles from pedestrian bridge to entry plaza, $2,015.81.
•Delete pump station waterfall, $55,235.57.
•Delete 9,225 linear feet of the 66,586 linear feet of "unistrut" connectors for plastic blocks used to modify whitewater channel features, $51,702.42.
•Substitute compacted soil for sand to backfill channel walls, $116,993.64.
•Substitute compacted soil for sand to backfill pump installations, $75,978.15.
•Substitute reduced hardness concrete in slabs and walls, $28,258.89.
•Delete specifications for pouring concrete in cold and hot weather; allow more time for construction as needed, $40,000.
•Delete specification for rock of particular size beneath channel liner, $42,942.66.
•Delete requirement that concrete channel walls be thicker at the top, $26,574.35.
•Delete second liner beneath channels, $11,058.19.
•Substitute uncoated reinforcing rebar for rust-resistant rebar in concrete channel slabs and walls, $86,891.75.
•Delete rebar electrical grounding, $73,150.
•Delete warning "planks" with buried electrical conduit, substitute buried plastic warning ribbon, $75,298.52.
•Delete lights at channel gates and posts, $33,440.
•Substitute 38 light fixtures, $62,700.
•Substitute 41 standard tree floodlights, $5,225.
•Delete nine pedestrian lights, $20,795.50.
•Delete 19 tree floodlights, $6,583.50
•Reduce buildings' earthquake resistance rating, $7,315.
•Reduce earthquake resistance rating for building electrical systems, $20,207.17.
•Substitute mosaic tile for subway tile on main building restroom walls, $6,897.
•Delete counter millwork at main building bar, $5,214.55.
•Delete main building glass partition, $5,308.60.
•Deletion main building window shades, $10,319.38.
•Substitute painted gypsum wallboard in main building pro shop dressing room, $12,417.11.
•Delete 16 of 28 staff lockers, $17,890.40.
•Delete outdoor trash, recycling bins at main building entry, $10,002.74.
•Delete specialized main building air purification system, $10,690.35.
•Substitute tankless water heaters, eliminating need for stainless steel flue, $7,106.
•Substitute three pendant light fixtures for custom main building light fixture, $6,270.
•Delete kayak boathouse, preserve utilities for future construction, $262,536.40.

The total deleted amount is $3,992,453.08that really sucks.

Plu...come on man, how much of that stuff, if you weren't told, would you even notice?

I wondered the same thing about 16 staff lockers being almost $18,000? What in the hell kind of lockers are they? Also, what outdoor trash/recycling bins cost $10,000?

that number is not just the hard cost of the physical item, includes labor and other intangibles as well

that number is not just the hard cost of the physical item, includes labor and other intangibles as well

I'm certainly not a contractor, but is that number not sky high for such things? It just struck me as way overpriced.

Plu...come on man, how much of that stuff, if you weren't told, would you even notice?well, that's true. It just sucks seeing that list of what was supposed to be and it being cut.

I wonder if there's any chance it will be added later on.

...

I wonder if there's any chance it will be added later on.

Hahahahahaha, you're funny....

Hahahahahaha, you're funny....I don't get it :p

Man they cleaned some chitterlings then discarded the waste.

OKC has learned from previous (MAPS) projects to overestimate cost (materials & labor) then trim back in some areas. These cuts will put the Whitewater facility about $9 million over the actual bids?

I wouldn't be surprised if you see some of these items reappear later as adjustments. They're not ready to tap into the $30 million set aside in the MAPS contingency fund.

Did the MAPS subcommittee for the new Convention Center make recommendation in their report that it needed to be larger?


http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif "Oklahoma City looks oh-so pretty... ...as I get my kicks on Route 66." --Nat King Cole.http://www.thunderfans.com/vforum/images/smilies/okc.gif

Well, technically they were saying it should be restored to near its original budget, right? It's easy to move money out of the convention center budget without a public outcry because it has no constituency.

Official groundbreaking ceremony today.