That's not my concern. My concern is to make sure that the public is properly informed, which I don't think was occurring until my story appeared this morning.

I find it hard to believe the businessmen behind this haven't already assessed their support on the city council and feel pretty confident they have enough support to get it passed. They seem brighter than to invest so much and announce without feeling like it will happen.

There's always a risk. Seems we have had better luck by investing in entertainment and sports infrastructure as opposed to business and industry. This seems like it's a good bet for the taxpayers.

Maybe this investment can be justified by the interest income from the new maps tax. I heard the original maps interest income would of covered the canal project.

If I understand Steve's article correctly, this $6.9 million is for capital costs, which I take to mean permanent modifications to city streets. That means they won't be able to modify the course year-to-year. Unless, of course, the city ponies up more money every year for new improvements on a changed course.

Furthermore, this is $6.9 million for capital improvements that will be of no practical value for 364 days out of the year.

I would also like to know where the $6.9 million will come from. Will something else be cut to make this happen? Was the city deliberately vague about MAPS3 commitments because they knew going into it projects would be reduced or eliminated to fund this?

BTW, the amount of cheerleading should not be construed as evidence of public desire. I haven't been following this much on TV, but typically, TV is big on anything they think is going to generate ad revenue.

Unfortunately we have put ourselves into a corner.

This race is announced now, it's coming. The city has the option to turn them away and not get the chance of this again in the future. Or we have the chance of investing this money and hopefully get it back. But we also demonstrate our willingness to welcome something with open arms. Once this is built, maybe it will help us market ourselves to other events and try to get them in here.

I'm still for it. I'd be fine with this money going towards this. The economic impact to our local economy will be good, the image impact will also be positive.

'We' haven't put ourselves into any kind of corner at all. If the backers of this race announced it without having all the i's and t's dotted and crossed, that's their problem.

No, we in the literal sense didn't. But it makes the city look bad since we are cornered. We can save the money and take a hit to our image or what have you, or we can spend the money and hope it sticks long enough to get the money back. Sounds like a corner to me.

Hi, eveyone! I'm really excited to announce the $5 Billion Bornhere Tiddlywinks Open, coming to Oklahoma City in June, 2011. We're pleased to be working with the city in a public/private partnership to fund this exciting event.

(Note to city hall: I'll be by Monday to pick up the $5 billion. You know, now that it's announced and all.)

I think this event is more important than Tiddlywinks. This is an internationally recognized event. 80-100k people at each race event (2-3 days). Think how many will be from outside the city and state. That is new money into our economy, not recycled money.

Did you read Steve's story?

Yes I did.

It appears to me that OKC has spent or is committed to spend millions of dollars on the Oklahoma River to facilitate rowing and kayaking competitions and the likelihood of financial benefit to the city are certainly no greater than this proposal. The possibility of both financial and public relations gains make the Grand Prix a no-brainer to me. Of course there are risks envolved, but everything we've accomplished in the last 20 years has been after overcoming risks and skepticism. Comparing our chances at success to other cities isn't entirely relevant. We have established our city as more of a trendsetter than a trend follower when it comes to civic attempts at redevelopment.

If I understand Steve's article correctly, this $6.9 million is for capital costs, which I take to mean permanent modifications to city streets. That means they won't be able to modify the course year-to-year. Unless, of course, the city ponies up more money every year for new improvements on a changed course.

Furthermore, this is $6.9 million for capital improvements that will be of no practical value for 364 days out of the year.

I would also like to know where the $6.9 million will come from. Will something else be cut to make this happen? Was the city deliberately vague about MAPS3 commitments because they knew going into it projects would be reduced or eliminated to fund this?
You don't know if that is true or not, some of those changes might help the general public as well, smooth paving is nice for everyone and that is something that will stay well after the race is done.


'We' haven't put ourselves into any kind of corner at all. If the backers of this race announced it without having all the i's and t's dotted and crossed, that's their problem.
There are other entities involved at this point other than just the organizing committee. For it to get as far as they have there was a buy off on the part of the sanctioning body (ALMS) and some in the city, things like this get done well before it ever makes it to public announcements. I have seen it unfolding first hand down here in Austin with the F1 race/facility and being somewhat involved in the racing community down here.

If I understand Steve's article correctly, this $6.9 million is for capital costs, which I take to mean permanent modifications to city streets. That means they won't be able to modify the course year-to-year. Unless, of course, the city ponies up more money every year for new improvements on a changed course.

Furthermore, this is $6.9 million for capital improvements that will be of no practical value for 364 days out of the year.

I would also like to know where the $6.9 million will come from. Will something else be cut to make this happen? Was the city deliberately vague about MAPS3 commitments because they knew going into it projects would be reduced or eliminated to fund this?

The capital costs would not be for street improvements, but rather for barriers, etc., needed for the race. City staff responds there has not been a determination yet as to which fund the $6.9 million would come from.

In that case, maybe the promoters of this thing could buy, maintain and store their own &$@* barricades.

The ALMS race from Mosport/Toronto is on Speed right now.

What is Speed?

Speed TV (SpeedTV.com (http://www.speedtv.com/)), it is a Fox sports network.
Not sure what channel it is on Cox, it is 607 on Directv.

Looked it up, on Cox, channel 65/728 HD

I don't think the city should pay for ANYTHING for ANYBODY. Lets go back to crawling in the same hole we were in for 50 years until we become the 3rd world entity we were on course for prior to the last 10 years. (sarcasm intended)

Shhesh. We have private enterprises risking their money on projects that could have a great payoff for the city and its inhabitants. Yet there are still many who resent any public support for anything. And they we have the gall to criticize SandRidge when they appear to be looking out only for themselves. That is the message many want to send. Fend for yourself...period.

Most have no problem spending other peoples money on whatever interests them, if they have no interest then they don't think any money should be spent.

I think there's sufficient public interest in this.

Polling?

Let's make a poll.... mods?

scientific polling?

LOL... okay Steve!!! You can't convince me you're not anti-prix now!

At least I'm not the only one that thinks that.

I'm VERY VERY interested! I think this would be a great thing for OKC... More national exposure. Egos aside, Project 180 and the Grand Prix need to work together to get this event to work.

I'm not anti-prix. I'm anti hype.

The capital costs would not be for street improvements, but rather for barriers, etc., needed for the race. City staff responds there has not been a determination yet as to which fund the $6.9 million would come from.

So if the race got canceled after a few years we could sell the barriers, grandstands, etc. and get some of the money back. Could they also be used for other city events during the rest of the year?

Good questions.

Speed TV (SpeedTV.com (http://www.speedtv.com/)), it is a Fox sports network.
Not sure what channel it is on Cox, it is 607 on Directv.

Looked it up, on Cox, channel 65/728 HD

I love speed. They do a good job covering MotoGP.

SPEED is the best race channel!!! I watch quiet a few shows/races on there. I watch A LOT of 250cc and 450cc Supercross and Motocross. I wish OKC had a decent enough stadium so we could get a Supercrss race! Now that would be AAAWWWEESSSOOOMMMEEE!!

Can someone please make a poll?!? I don't know how to do all that..

Their MotoGP coverage of most races (all but the US rounds like today and Laguna a couple of months) ago is actually the world feed coverage, all the graphics are world feed. I had the online subscription the previous three season because they shifted the coverage around all over the day and I got tired of that, Thankfully this season they are showing the feature live so most of the time it is sitting on my VCR when I wake up on Sunday morning like the F1 coverage. I hate it when they move the F1 race coverage to Fox because they show it tape delay.

So if the race got canceled after a few years we could sell the barriers, grandstands, etc. and get some of the money back. Could they also be used for other city events during the rest of the year?

I don't see why these things can't be rented/shared with other cities.

Yeah, after two years we can sell them to the next city suckered into hosting this. In fact, maybe we can buy them used from one of the numerous other cities who've already tried it.

Although encouraged by the possibility that this would be a loan that would be paid back in 10 years, collateral needs to be but up and it needs to be paid back with interest (the City would have to pay interest if they borrowed it). While Steve has indicated the $6.9M is NOT for capital improvements there could be considerable costs to the City by the damage these cars do to the streets (according to former Mayor Norick). IF this is such a "no brainer" sure fired guaranteed money maker as the promoter claims, then he shouldn't have any problem going to a bank and getting a loan for the $6.9M. If a bank won't touch it, neither should the City.

Yeah, after two years we can sell them to the next city suckered into hosting this. In fact, maybe we can buy them used from one of the numerous other cities who've already tried it.

I know this is your attempt at self-loathing but it is a good idea. Maybe the $6.9 million is the 'used' cost.

They have the money for a race track in OKC but still taking fire equipment off the street?

http://blog.newsok.com/okccentral/2010/08/30/is-the-track-record-even-worse-than-reported/

SPEED is the best race channel!!! I watch quiet a few shows/races on there. I watch A LOT of 250cc and 450cc Supercross and Motocross. I wish OKC had a decent enough stadium so we could get a Supercrss race! Now that would be AAAWWWEESSSOOOMMMEEE!!

I had a friend who floated the idea of such a course halfway between here and Tulsa. I think its a great idea. Fort Worth has their speedway and such sporting has a solid fan base in the South. Motorcycles for sure do not have an up-to-date dedicated World Class venue here in the US. It would be a great opportunity for this great state to gain an international edge and provide something of pride between our two largest cities. Particularly if we ever build high-speed rail between the two in the future.

Super and Moto could have great lucrative and World Class possibilities here.

Are you people serious? The politicians from the city have stated that we are in a recession (contrary to the recession proof city blog) and that we need to be cutting back on services; and yet people are suggesting we spend 6.9 million on a gamble of what it might bring in? I love racing and would enjoy seeing this come to Okc but they will be raking in the dollars regardless of whether the politicians on the council piss away money we supposedly don't have. Let the Private venture invest first prior to taxpayer funds being gambled away on a whim.

The Whole country is in a recession and OKC is faring very well compared to Most large cities!Sales tax collections are up in OKC and jobs are on the increase!Try telling Bricktown club,bar,hotel owners that this would not be a good idea!While The city of OKC might not get paid back within 4-5 years, millions of Dollars would be pumped into OKC by nearly 100 Thousand spectators wich inturn increases Tax revenue!Think Long term BIG PICTURE!

By the council and CM own words, do not be overly optimistic about the last quarters sales tax collections. They look at it with much skepticism and will wait until consistent tax returns show an upswing in the economy. Are you suggesting that the recession is over and we should invest in this Gamble? If so, should we go ahead and re-hire those positions in essential city services that have been cut and laid off last year to restore us to 2009 status?

I would love to see the money pumped into our economy and am an avid race fan; however I also know that the promoters stand to make alot of money off this venture with very little risk or investment on their part. Why should the citizens of Okc take all the risk?

Surprisingly balanced artcile in Monday's paper...

http://www.newsok.com/american-le-mans-race-in-okc-could-be-good-but-must-be-sustainable/article/3490058

American Le Mans race in OKC could be good, but must be sustainable (Oklahoman, 8/30/10)


But before we march on City Hall and demand that the city council vote Tuesday to appropriate the $6.9 million needed to jumpstart the endeavor, we need to be clear. This has to be a sustainable project.
...

That's the question facing the city council.

If this race has staying power, if it can become an OKC institution that draws 80,000 fans — some redneck, some cosmopolitan — downtown every Fourth of July weekend, then $6.9 million is a bargain.

If this race is here in 2011 and gone by 2014, then $6.9 million is a waste.

Larry,
WOW! A voice of reason? Where did this quote come from? Sure not from one of the politicians on the horseshoe.......

I had a friend who floated the idea of such a course halfway between here and Tulsa. I think its a great idea. Fort Worth has their speedway and such sporting has a solid fan base in the South. Motorcycles for sure do not have an up-to-date dedicated World Class venue here in the US. It would be a great opportunity for this great state to gain an international edge and provide something of pride between our two largest cities. Particularly if we ever build high-speed rail between the two in the future.

Super and Moto could have great lucrative and World Class possibilities here.
There is already a facility that could be expanded, Hallett Motor Racing Circuit. The problem is that it is an already popular facility that most of this region of the country uses for car and motorcycle racing. In fact some of the North Texas regions use Hallett during the race season.

As far as "World Class", Miller Motorsports Park outside Salt Lake City hosts a round of World Superbike and Barber Motorsports Park near Birmingham, Alabama is a world class facility for motorcycles with a world class museum on site who has been rumored to get a round of WSB in the future. Kevin Schwantz is working with the developer of the Austin track to make it compatible with motorcycle racing.

As far as boondoggles, this would be a small one compared to some of the ventures the the local/state gov'ts have "invested" in if it didn't stay for awhile.

Larry,
WOW! A voice of reason? Where did this quote come from? Sure not from one of the politicians on the horseshoe.......

barnold- I don't know what thread your reading but there is a fair amount of skepticism on this blog. Don't confuse the enthusiasm of my comments or others for motorcycle and car sports. I think that the cost and infrastructure necessary for such an event such as this should be carefully weighed against the return in investment.

What corporation or big company or Major city for that matter ever succeded without taking risk?BIG TIME National exposure for OKC!

There is already a facility that could be expanded, Hallett Motor Racing Circuit. The problem is that it is an already popular facility that most of this region of the country uses for car and motorcycle racing. In fact some of the North Texas regions use Hallett during the race season.

As far as "World Class", Miller Motorsports Park outside Salt Lake City hosts a round of World Superbike and Barber Motorsports Park near Birmingham, Alabama is a world class facility for motorcycles with a world class museum on site who has been rumored to get a round of WSB in the future. Kevin Schwantz is working with the developer of the Austin track to make it compatible with motorcycle racing.

As far as boondoggles, this would be a small one compared to some of the ventures the the local/state gov'ts have "invested" in if it didn't stay for awhile.

Good points bluedog. Hallett is a favorite of mine. I was simply thinking bigger and our geographical location advantage. If Austin were enhanced, that certainly would damage viability. Hallett is a gem of a fun course.

Good points bluedog. Hallett is a favorite of mine. I was simply thinking bigger and our geographical location advantage. If Austin were enhanced, that certainly would damage viability. Hallett is a gem of a fun course.
It has been a long, long time since I have run on it but it was always a favorite.

Here is the article about Scwantz: Crash.net - Kevin Schwantz advising Austin F1 track on bikes (http://www.crash.net/motogp/news/162867/1/kevin_schwantz_advising_austin_f1_track_on_bikes.h tml)

Although encouraged by the possibility that this would be a loan that would be paid back in 10 years, collateral needs to be but up and it needs to be paid back with interest (the City would have to pay interest if they borrowed it). While Steve has indicated the $6.9M is NOT for capital improvements there could be considerable costs to the City by the damage these cars do to the streets (according to former Mayor Norick). IF this is such a "no brainer" sure fired guaranteed money maker as the promoter claims, then he shouldn't have any problem going to a bank and getting a loan for the $6.9M. If a bank won't touch it, neither should the City.

Ahh, the voice of reason. You are exactly right. If this is such a good deal, then why hasnt the promoter and or his group secured financing in private industry or banking industry? Why is he coming to the city and asking for the funds? If this goes through, your damn right we are entitled to repayment with interest. These guys would be paying an investment group or bank interest, why not the city. HMMM. Are we that desperate to get something like this here. I like the idea of the grand prix, but the idea of being desperate to get something clouds your judgement, because all you are thinking about is the end result. We the citizens are taking all of the risks here, not this racing group. I would like to see them have something to lose or gain in this venture as well, not just us.

You people are really amazing. OKC can't have a Grand Prix until all the union employees have job security? Than other people say that the private sector needs to pay their share first before OKC pays for their own race course. Hello McFly, the ALMS is a private sector organization AND they did put up their money first. If OKC wants to host a race then they have to pay what it cost to host - and that cost is to build a temporary track to do it on. Do you honestly think these are government owned cars driving around the track?

[QUOTE=Kerry;357466]You people are really amazing. OKC can't have a Grand Prix until all the union employees have job security? Than other people say that the private sector needs to pay their share first before OKC pays for their own race course. Hello McFly, the ALMS is a private sector organization AND they did put up their money first. If OKC wants to host a race then they have to pay what it cost to host - and that cost is to build a temporary track to do it on. Do you honestly think these are government owned cars driving around the track?[/QUOTE

How much did they put up??? McFLY. Is it even close to the 7 mil that the citizens of OKC are going to have to pony up to build this track. What kind of security do we have that we are going to get a return on our investment with interest of course. If this is such a good deal, then why arent there any private investor groups willing to bankroll this, and then get a return on their money, because the stock market and banks are not providing much of anything for return on money right now. I personally would not sink 7 mil into something without knowing for damn sure I was getting a return on my investment. Yet, here we are again, willing to sell our souls to the highest bidder for some pie in the sky grand prix race that may or not be here in 3 years.

How much did they put up??? McFLY. Is it even close to the 7 mil that the citizens of OKC are going to have to pony up to build this track. What kind of security do we have that we are going to get a return on our investment with interest of course. If this is such a good deal, then why arent there any private investor groups willing to bankroll this, and then get a return on their money, because the stock market and banks are not providing much of anything for return on money right now. I personally would not sink 7 mil into something without knowing for damn sure I was getting a return on my investment. Yet, here we are again, willing to sell our souls to the highest bidder for some pie in the sky grand prix race that may or not be here in 3 years.

An American LeMans LMP car cost something like $3.5 million each. Private investors ARE banking rolling it. The whole racing circuit is private owned and operated. OKC would only being paying for their own equipment. Do you expect each airline at WRWA to build their own airport? The city isn't putting up the money betting on AMLS. They are putting up the money betting on the people of OKC. If people show up to watch the race then it will stay in OKC forever, if people don't show up then AMLS will be on to the next city.

An American LeMans LMP car cost something like $3.5 million each. Private investors ARE banking rolling it. The whole racing circuit is private owned and operated. OKC would only being paying for their own equipment. Do you expect each airline at WRWA to build their own airport? The city isn't putting up the money betting on AMLS. They are putting up the money betting on the people of OKC. If people show up to watch the race then it will stay in OKC forever, if people don't show up then AMLS will be on to the next city.


Good points, I just want all of this to work out. I dont mean to be a pessimist, but its 35 years of being in the business world and watching things promised by others fail to materialize. So as of now, I will be cautiously optimistic. See ya at the races.

Ugh...bad news. The council just voted 2-6.

Ugh...bad news. The council just voted 2-6.

Then they just saved me a trip to OKC.